THE 6TH TRUMPET ONLY REPRESENTS "GREAT TRIB" TIME

[Davy]

Only pointing to the Trumpets with this.

One of the greatest mistakes many have made in trying to understand the event order written in Revelation is with thinking they happen exactly in the order that John wrote them down, like all the Seals happen first, and then all the Trumpets happen, and then all the Vials happen, in that order. However, they do not.

The 21 SIGNS in Christ's Book of Revelation are actually about the SAME 7 SIGNS of the end He gave in His Olivet discourse of Matthew 24 and Mark 13. The final SIGN Jesus gave there is that of His future return and gathering of His faithful Church.


Satan and his angels appear on earth under the 6th Seal (first part), 6th Trumpet, and 6th Vial. That is what the 666 figure is actually about.

Lord Jesus' return is represented with the 7th Seal (6th Seal second part with 7th Seal representing a final selah), 7th Trumpet, and 7th Vial, the 777 figure.


This is why the 6th Seal (2nd part) shows the time of His wrath, and the event of the heavens rolled up as scroll and every island moved, and the 7th Trumpet also shows the time of His wrath, and the 7th Vial also shows the islands fled away along with His wrath. Many think the 7th Seal represents a problem with this, when it actually does not...

In the Psalms, which actually means 'songs' that are sung, it uses a 'rest' at times, with the word 'selah'. That selah acts as a pause, and represents a time to ponder on what was said. Likewise the 7th Seal represents a 'selah' time pause, or rest, and as a pointer to what was just shown (i.e., the previous 6 Seals). Why might that be the case? It's because those Seals in the Revelation 6 Chapter follow the 7 Signs Jesus first showed in His Olivet discourse of Matthew 24 and Mark 13. So in reality, in the 6 Seals, He is showing us the full group of endtime events to happen leading up to His future return. Then 7th Seal SELAH, think about all that, i.e., those previous Rev.6 Seals.

The fact that Lord Jesus gave 3 Woes linked to the LAST 3 Trumpets reveals He especially wants us to grasp the events given within those 3 periods.


1.
5th Trumpet - 1st Woe = the time when the locust army is working upon the earth to prepare the world for the coming Antichrist. This is especially shown about that locust army first written of in the Old Testament Book of Joel. God uses the symbols of locusts and the teeth of lions, and the idea of an unstoppable army to describe them, yet defines them there also as "a nation" that has come upon His people. That's the same locust idea given in Revelation 9. So if you don't study the Book of Joel about the locusts, then you will miss a lot of what God is loosing them upon the earth for, and He reveals in Joel 2 that the locusts represent an army He sends upon the earth. For modern events of our day, the locusts represent the world controllers that serve Lucifer and their plan for a "one world government" over all nations and peoples. The Antichrist is not appeared yet at this stage. This stage is about the taking over of the powers upon this earth.


2.
6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe = the opening up of the symbolic river border of Euphrates, the river which represents the original northern most border between God's people and His enemies.

This event is a set period of time, i.e, the time of "great tribulation". This is when the locusts as false priests symbolic of an army, will attack the world to deceive by what comes out of their MOUTHS, for as written their power is in their mouths. This is when the Antichrist/Satan will appear on earth, claiming to be GOD and His Christ, working great signs and wonders and miracles to deceive the whole world.

This 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe period flows from Rev.9:12 unto Rev.11:14. During this period another Jewish temple will be built by the Antichrist in today's Jerusalem, and the Orthodox Jews will have the old covenant worship re-instituted. That is what the Rev.11:1-2 Scripture is showing with those who worship inside that temple, with the outer court left for the Gentiles, and they will tread the holy city (Jerusalem) for 42 months (1260 days), the same 42 months the Antichrist of Rev.13:4-8 is given to work on earth. That points to "great tribulation" timing.

The Rev.10 chapter represents a pause to reflect, a parenthetical chapter.

3.
7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe = Revelation 11:15 forward, the time of Christ's future return, the day of His wrath upon the wicked (6th Seal, 7th Vial).

 

[Douggg]

The Great Tribulation begins when the Abomination of Desolation is set up.

Matthew 24:15-21. Daniel 12:11-12.

---------------------------------------

The 7th trumpet angel sounds and the third woe to the inhabiters of the earth begins. Which will be Satan cast down to the earth, having great wrath, Revelation 12:12, knowing his time is short, a time/times/half time, Revelation 12:14.

 

[Douggg]

Satan and his angels appear on earth under the 6th Seal (first part), 6th Trumpet, and 6th Vial. That is what the 666 figure is actually about.

No, the 666 is the number of the beast's name. The number of a man.

Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Only pointing to the Trumpets with this.

One of the greatest mistakes many have made in trying to understand the event order written in Revelation is with thinking they happen exactly in the order that John wrote them down, like all the Seals happen first, and then all the Trumpets happen, and then all the Vials happen, in that order. However, they do not.

The 21 SIGNS in Christ's Book of Revelation are actually about the SAME 7 SIGNS of the end He gave in His Olivet discourse of Matthew 24 and Mark 13. The final SIGN Jesus gave there is that of His future return and gathering of His faithful Church.


Satan and his angels appear on earth under the 6th Seal (first part), 6th Trumpet, and 6th Vial. That is what the 666 figure is actually about.

Lord Jesus' return is represented with the 7th Seal (6th Seal second part with 7th Seal representing a final selah), 7th Trumpet, and 7th Vial, the 777 figure.


This is why the 6th Seal (2nd part) shows the time of His wrath, and the event of the heavens rolled up as scroll and every island moved, and the 7th Trumpet also shows the time of His wrath, and the 7th Vial also shows the islands fled away along with His wrath. Many think the 7th Seal represents a problem with this, when it actually does not...

In the Psalms, which actually means 'songs' that are sung, it uses a 'rest' at times, with the word 'selah'. That selah acts as a pause, and represents a time to ponder on what was said. Likewise the 7th Seal represents a 'selah' time pause, or rest, and as a pointer to what was just shown (i.e., the previous 6 Seals). Why might that be the case? It's because those Seals in the Revelation 6 Chapter follow the 7 Signs Jesus first showed in His Olivet discourse of Matthew 24 and Mark 13. So in reality, in the 6 Seals, He is showing us the full group of endtime events to happen leading up to His future return. Then 7th Seal SELAH, think about all that, i.e., those previous Rev.6 Seals.

The fact that Lord Jesus gave 3 Woes linked to the LAST 3 Trumpets reveals He especially wants us to grasp the events given within those 3 periods.


1.
5th Trumpet - 1st Woe = the time when the locust army is working upon the earth to prepare the world for the coming Antichrist. This is especially shown about that locust army first written of in the Old Testament Book of Joel. God uses the symbols of locusts and the teeth of lions, and the idea of an unstoppable army to describe them, yet defines them there also as "a nation" that has come upon His people. That's the same locust idea given in Revelation 9. So if you don't study the Book of Joel about the locusts, then you will miss a lot of what God is loosing them upon the earth for, and He reveals in Joel 2 that the locusts represent an army He sends upon the earth. For modern events of our day, the locusts represent the world controllers that serve Lucifer and their plan for a "one world government" over all nations and peoples. The Antichrist is not appeared yet at this stage. This stage is about the taking over of the powers upon this earth.


2.
6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe = the opening up of the symbolic river border of Euphrates, the river which represents the original northern most border between God's people and His enemies.

This event is a set period of time, i.e, the time of "great tribulation". This is when the locusts as false priests symbolic of an army, will attack the world to deceive by what comes out of their MOUTHS, for as written their power is in their mouths. This is when the Antichrist/Satan will appear on earth, claiming to be GOD and His Christ, working great signs and wonders and miracles to deceive the whole world.

This 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe period flows from Rev.9:12 unto Rev.11:14. During this period another Jewish temple will be built by the Antichrist in today's Jerusalem, and the Orthodox Jews will have the old covenant worship re-instituted. That is what the Rev.11:1-2 Scripture is showing with those who worship inside that temple, with the outer court left for the Gentiles, and they will tread the holy city (Jerusalem) for 42 months (1260 days), the same 42 months the Antichrist of Rev.13:4-8 is given to work on earth. That points to "great tribulation" timing.

The Rev.10 chapter represents a pause to reflect, a parenthetical chapter.

3.
7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe = Revelation 11:15 forward, the time of Christ's future return, the day of His wrath upon the wicked (6th Seal, 7th Vial).

"""So if you don't study the Book of Joel about the locusts, then you will miss a lot of what God is loosing them upon the earth for, and He reveals in Joel 2 that the locusts represent an army He sends upon the earth. For modern events of our day, the locusts represent the world controllers that serve Lucifer and their plan for a "one world government" over all nations and peoples. The Antichrist is not appeared yet at this stage. This stage is about the taking over of the powers upon this earth."""

This is way off.
The flying scorpions are on earth to sting unbelievers .
Jews are ushered to safety and 144k are sealed against them.
The scorpions are vividly described as actual insects with powerful stings.
No way do they represent what you are saying.

 

[rebuilder 454]

The Great Tribulation begins when the Abomination of Desolation is set up.

Matthew 24:15-21. Daniel 12:11-12.

---------------------------------------

The 7th trumpet angel sounds and the third woe to the inhabiters of the earth begins. Which will be Satan cast down to the earth, having great wrath, Revelation 12:12, knowing his time is short, a time/times/half time, Revelation 12:14.

the AC kicks off the trib, GT, 7 YR TRIB or what ever you want to call it..
He arrives and establishes the one world system, which requires the mark.
Massive martyrdom right from the start of the GT...or trib, or whatever the modern terminology calls the 7 yr GT.
Those that over emphacise the vials, seals and trumpets, get so many things crosswise, because with the trumpets, Jesus appears to John before the vision with a trumpet voice.
So way too much error margine in a trumpet coming fixed interpretation

 

[Douggg]

the AC kicks off the trib, GT, 7 YR TRIB or what ever you want to call it..

Need to refine that, rebuilder big block chevy, I presume. .

The Antichrist begins the 7 year 70th week of Daniel 9:27 by making a big speech from the temple mount that God gave the land of Israel to the children of Israel as theirs forever. Moses made a requirement for that sort of speech back in Deuteronomy 31:9-13. Mose also required that it be done on a 7 year cycle. Hence the "he will confirm the covenant with many for one week".

That starts the 7 years and what will be the perceived as the beginning of the messianic age, which the world will be saying peace and safety. No global government to begin with. The Antichrist politically will have become the King of Israel, anointed so by the false prophet, as the Jews will think the Antichrist person is their long awaited messiah.

Everything will go along smoothly for around 3 years, during which another temple will be built on the temple mount and animal sacrifices will be started again.... when suddenly without warning everything implodes.

When the Antichrist stops the daily sacrifice of the two lambs, and goes into the temple into the Holy of Holies chamber, sits, and declares that he has achieved God-hood. That act will be what is known in Daniel 8:12-13 as the transgression of desolation.

God's reaction to the outlandish act will be to bring strangers against the revealed man of sin and has him assassinated. Ezekiel 28:1-10.

Then in Isaiah 14:18-20, in disdain for the person, God brings him back to life, in part because some people will believe the revealed man of sin's outlandish claim, and also as part of God's plan to end Satan's impact on the human race and creation.

On his return to life, the person will become possessed by the spirit of the (former garden of Eden) serpent beast, that will be allowed to come out of the bottomless pit.

The possessed person, fore-named the beast in Revelation 13 that is mortally wounded but healed, will sit up in his casket and will claim to have overcome death and the grave. He will gain a lot of world wide followers at that time, as they will be dumbfounded by what they see.

The ten kings, leaders of the EU, will hand their EU kingdom over to him to be leader of it. Although not a one world government, the EU will be the dominant kingdom globally, and will joined by western nations. They will be controlling all of the middle east oil from that time forward.

The false prophet will have the people of the world make a statue image of the beast-king, and will place it on the temple mount, 1335 days before Jesus returns, as the abomination of desolation which triggers the beginning of the great tribulation.

The 7 trumpet judgements, the 7 vials of God's wrath, and Satan's wrath because he will be cast down to earth, knowing that he will have but a time/time/half time left, the martyrdom of the great tribulation saints - all take place during the great tribulation.

 

[Davy]

No, the 666 is the number of the beast's name. The number of a man.

Did you not know that Satan also has that image of 'man'?

Did you forget to read Genesis 1:26-27 where God said let "Us" make man in Our Own Image and Likeness? All the angels have that image of 'man' because it originated from our Heavenly Father's Own Image Likeness. So you ought to dump that false tale started in some Churches today by the crept in unawares that work in some pulpits today.

Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Clearly you still do not understand the symbolic meaning behind that number, especially if you follow men's false doctrines pushed by the old reformers who love to apply that number only to a pope.

That 666 number is about Satan who comes first to play the false-Christ. And Revelation reveals his future coming to earth to play God is on the 6th Seal (1st part); 6th Trumpet (per Rev.9); and the 6th Vial (per Rev.16 in prep for the battle of Armageddon).

 

[Davy]

"""So if you don't study the Book of Joel about the locusts, then you will miss a lot of what God is loosing them upon the earth for, and He reveals in Joel 2 that the locusts represent an army He sends upon the earth. For modern events of our day, the locusts represent the world controllers that serve Lucifer and their plan for a "one world government" over all nations and peoples. The Antichrist is not appeared yet at this stage. This stage is about the taking over of the powers upon this earth."""

This is way off.
The flying scorpions are on earth to sting unbelievers .
Jews are ushered to safety and 144k are sealed against them.
The scorpions are vividly described as actual insects with powerful stings.
No way do they represent what you are saying.

Nope! There's NO "flying scorpions" written of, you sound like some deceived Hollywood producer.

The locusts and scorpions of Rev.9 are SYMBOLS for something else, "a nation" God called them in the Book of Joel. It means a certain people that takeover the wealth of nations at the end. In Joel 2, God calls them "My army" that He said He sends at the end prior to the "day of the Lord" (Jesus' coming).

Thus the locust and scorpion God uses only as 'symbols' to show HOW Satan's servants on earth attack like natural locusts and scorpions do.

Locust Symbol -- natural locusts swarm a crop, field, trees, eating up everything, leaving it bare. The locust has 4 stages in its development which God mentions in Joel 1, showing they work in stages consuming in completeness. This is to show how Satan's workers will get control of everything in the last days. And that they have almost completely done with their plans for a "one world government". They control the world of finance, military, politics, and education, each leg have special departments in the United Nations handing out international policies for ALL nations.

Scorpion Symbol -- God uses a natural scorpion for how Satan's host 'spiritually' attack individuals in attempt to destroy one's soul. A natural locust has two pincers that grab its prey, and then its tail stings the prey with poison making it numb. The scorpion has no stomach for digestion. It instead uses its victim as its stomach. The scorpion injects a fluid into its victim which turns the victim's insides into goo. And then the scorpion sucks that goo up as food, leaving the victim as an empty shell. God's uses that SPIRITUALLY for how the symbolic scorpion attacks the deceived by the symbolic poison that comes out of the locust's MOUTH. And that means WORDS to cause DECEPTION. The specific deception the locusts cause is the falling away to worship the false-Messiah who comes first in place of Christ.

 

[Davidpt]

Satan and his angels appear on earth under the 6th Seal (first part), 6th Trumpet, and 6th Vial. That is what the 666 figure is actually about.

Is your position basically the following then?

1st seal followed by first trumpet followed by 1st vial

Followed by 2nd seal followed by 2nd trumpet followed by 2nd vial

So on and so on.

No need for me to go through all 7 of these scenarios. It's pretty obvious what I'm asking here.

Let's assume that is how you view that.

It would then look like this.

Revelation 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

Followed by....

Revelation 8:7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

Followed by...

Revelation 16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.


One thing that can be deduced from this scenario is this. In order for the first vial to get poured out upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image----ummm---well they obviously have to already be worshiping his image if a vial of wrath is being poured out upon them because they are worshiping his image. Duh! Right? It would be nonsensical to punish someone for something they are not even doing yet.

Therefore, per this scenario one can't then insist that when they initially begin worshiping the beast's image, that this happens much later, such as during the 6th trumpet. An interpretation like this would be making nonsense out of the text not sense out of it. How can an interpretation be making sense of the text if that interpretation has the first vial of wrath preceding the 6th trumpet, then insisting that it is not until the time of the 6th trumpet that anyone begins to worship the beast? If that is their position maybe they shouldn't be contradicting that by insisting the first vial of wrath gets poured out before we even get to the time of the 6th trumpet?

Clearly then, none of the vials of wrath can be being poured out prior to the 6th trumpet. All of them are mening after the time of the 6th trumpet if it is not until the time of the 6th trumpet being when anyone initially begins worshiping the beast's image. During the 42 month reign of the beast is not meaning before the 6th trumpet, it is meaning during it. Therefore, none of the vials, including the first vial, can precede the the 42 month reign of the beast. They have to be poured out after the 42 month reign, certainty not prior to it instead.


And here you have 5 vials of wrath having already been poured earlier if you have the 6th vial being poured out during the 6th trumpet.

 

[Davy]

Is your position basically the following then?

1st seal followed by first trumpet followed by 1st vial

Followed by 2nd seal followed by 2nd trumpet followed by 2nd vial

So on and so on.

Yes and no. The 1st Seal of Rev.6 really is not mentioned, but only assumed as the 1st Seal. That is about the coming Antichrist trying to mimic Jesus' coming, but it does not occur at the first, but at the first part of the 6th Seal. So the Seals in Rev.6 are not in perfect order, but only follow the order of Signs Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse. The first Sign Jesus gave was to not allow man to deceive us, thus the false rider on the white horse, etc.

One thing that can be deduced from this scenario is this. In order for the first vial to get poured out upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image----ummm---well they obviously have to already be worshiping his image if a vial of wrath is being poured out upon them because they are worshiping his image. Duh! Right? It would be nonsensical to punish someone for something they are not even doing yet.

Many fail to understand that Revelation uses a lot of symbols. When the trumpets speak of a third of the trees being burned up it is symbolic of men being deceived. Recall in Rev.9 the locusts are not allowed to hurt any green thing, nor kill, but only 'sting' for five months those that don't have God's seal.

Therefore, per this scenario one can't then insist that when they initially begin worshiping the beast's image, that this happens much later, such as during the 6th trumpet.

6th Seal , first part, stars of heaven fall to earth as untimely figs, which is about the winter fig that grows in the winter but falls off in the spring. That represents the future when Satan and his angels are kicked out of the Heavenly dimension down to this earth in our... dimension, per Rev.12:7-17.

An interpretation like this would be making nonsense out of the text not sense out of it.

Making that kind of statement only betrays you, because it means you have yet to understand the Scripture.

How can an interpretation be making sense of the text if that interpretation has the first vial of wrath preceding the 6th trumpet, then insisting that it is not until the time of the 6th trumpet that anyone begins to worship the beast? If that is their position maybe they shouldn't be contradicting that by insisting the first vial of wrath gets poured out before we even get to the time of the 6th trumpet?

Rev.8:7 = 1st trumpet -- trees representing men, one third symbolically burned up. Recall Mark 8:24 that the blind man Jesus healed said he saw men as trees.

Rev.16:2 = 1st vial = sores upon the men that worship the beast image and that have the mark of the beast.

Rev.8:8-9 = 2nd trumpet -- the sea represents the waters of Rev.17:15, which is about peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues, the creatures in the sea that died represent the deceived.

Rev.16:3 = 2 vial -- vial poured out upon the 'sea' (peoples), every living soul in the sea dies. (Spiritual death through deception).

Rev.8:10-11 = 3rd trumpet -- waters as people again, a third part deceived.

Rev.16:4 = 3rd vial = poured out on the rivers and waters, again waters of Rev.17:15 represent peoples.

Rev.8:12 = 4th trumpet -- darkening, a third of the sun, moon, stars. Link to Luke 21:25-26.

Rev.16:8-9 = 4th vial = poured out upon the sun, and men scorched.

The last 3 trumpets are tied each with a Woe. Those especially are what we at the end are to be watching.

So remember, not all the Seals of Rev.6 are in order, because they follow the order of the Signs Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse.

Clearly then, none of the vials of wrath can be being poured out prior to the 6th trumpet. All of them are mening after the time of the 6th trumpet if it is not until the time of the 6th trumpet being when anyone initially begins worshiping the beast's image. During the 42 month reign of the beast is not meaning before the 6th trumpet, it is meaning during it. Therefore, none of the vials, including the first vial, can precede the the 42 month reign of the beast. They have to be poured out after the 42 month reign, certainty not prior to it instead.


And here you have 5 vials of wrath having already been poured earlier if you have the 6th vial being poured out during the 6th trumpet.

All of the Rev.16 vials are deemed 'wraths' upon the wicked and deceived. But the 7th vial specifically is God's day of final cup of wrath upon the wicked that Rev.6 with the 6th seal pointed to.

The 6th trumpet, 2 Woe is "great tribulation" timing. The river Euphrates being opened represents the line between God's children and Satan's host, for the end, being opened. Events on that 6th trumpet also involve the future new temple in Jerusalem of Rev.11:1-2. The 6th trumpet continues in that Rev.11 chapter until the final 7 trumpet - 3rd Woe with Jesus' return.

6th Seal
Rev 6:14
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
KJV

7th Vial
Rev 16:20
20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
KJV

7th Trumpet
Rev 11:18
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
KJV

The above shows Jesus' coming on the 6th seal, 7th trumpet, and 7th vial. Only problem it would seem is the 7th seal, which is given as a pause, and should actually be included within the final seal, making Jesus' future coming as 777.

It is a similar type of order with the 6th seal, 6th trumpet, 6th vial with Satan coming at the end. 666.