The answer of hell and its origins

[face2face]

I'm still not sure what you're getting at mate, are you a JW?

No, I'm asking if you are able to show your understanding of Hell from the OT.
Who prepared this place of fire?
Where is its creation story?
Where does God warn his people in the OT of such a place?
I'm looking for the details - chapter & verse.
We can show the destiny of man is in Genesis 3:19 right...then you add qualifiers to this by saying man has an immortal soul which goes to Heaven and maybe Hell. Show me where you get this?

 

[Jack]

I'm still not sure what you're getting at mate, I'm definitely not a JW, are you?

I wasn't referring to you mate. lol

 

[Jack]

At present we are trying to see if Hell believers can prove their understanding from the OT - so far we can establish its not in Genesis and possibly the first five books.

We?

 

[Dropship]

So your saying your belief in this eternal place of torment isnt taught in Genesis? What about the first five books?

What about them? Are you (and some others in this forum) by any chance related to the Riddler in Batman?
I'm hopeless at riddles and respond best to people who talk straight..

 

[face2face]

Every single principle can be revealed from Genesis which is the seed bed of all the books of the Bible...so show me where God explains this place of torment?

 

[face2face]

What about them? Are you (and some others in this forum) by any chance related to the Riddler in Batman?
I'm hopeless at riddles and respond best to people who talk straight..

It doesn't get any straighter!
Let me ask this question then.
Do you disregard the Old Testament for your belief in Hell? Are you a NT only believer?
It's obvious to all reading this you are unable to show your understanding of Hell from Genesis or the OT.
Is this true?

 

[Jack]

It doesn't get any straighter!
Let me ask this question then.
Do you disregard the Old Testament for your belief in Hell? Are you a NT only believer?
It's obvious to all reading this you are unable to show your understanding of Hell from Genesis or the OT.
Is this true?

Better question: Why are you avoiding NT like plague?

 

[Dropship]

And your supporting text from Genesis?

Supporting what exactly?
It's totally irrelevant whether hell is or ain't mentioned in Genesis because like I've said a zillion times before, Jesus said there is a hell so I'll take his word for it..

 

[face2face]

Keep in mind Dropship there are active members in this thread who wont even give this a go and stand silently on the sidelines. Credit for you engaging with the OP. Enoch, Jack etc all like to throw mud but it doesn't stick! I'm giving them the opportunity to prove their belief in eternal torment but it looks like I need to wait for someone who knows their subject.

 

[face2face]

Supporting what exactly?
It's totally irrelevant whether hell is or ain't mentioned in Genesis because like I've said a zillion times before, Jesus said there is a hell so I'll take his word for it..

Okay, so we are getting somewhere.
So all those people who went before Jesus were not told about this eternal place of torment - is that your belief?

 

[Dropship]

[snip]...then you add qualifiers to this by saying man has an immortal soul which goes to Heaven and maybe Hell. Show me where you get this?

Jesus said so..

 

[face2face]

Jesus said so..

Okay, thanks for your contribution.

 

[Behold]

At present we are trying to see if Hell believers can prove their understanding from the OT - so far we can establish its not in Genesis and possibly the first five books.

Hells is created for the Devil and His angels.
its the beginning of the 2nd Death, that ends with the Lake of Fire.
Its related to Revelation 20:11
Its related to "outer darkness" and "gnashing of teeth". "where the fire is not quenched".

Jesus said its better to cut off your own hand and tear out your own eye then go there..
He's not kidding.


Listen, reader.

The Devil, His angels, and the Christ rejectors, are all the same Spirit. "Of YOUR Father, the Devil".
God has to put them somewhere when their body dies. (People).
= Hell.

Hell, more than anything else, is..>"where God will Put them", right after they die.

Hell is the beginning of the FINAL destination of the Christ Rejector, and the Devil, and the Damned Angels.
Its the initial home of the Damned.... these..= John 3:36

Heaven is the destination of the Born Again. 'Christ in you, the hope of GLORY"... = GLORY is Heaven.

 

[face2face]

If the current line of reasoning is consistent across all the members who believe in this eternal place of torment then this fact that the OT is silent on these ideas it's leaning toward the "fire" in the NT is likely figurative of something else. I will give the OP time to mature but I will continue to ask for OT evidence with the view of proving figurative fire is the intended meaning.

We know this to be true of course because of its use in speaking back to OT events. The Bible often use's the imagery of eternal fire in order to represent God's anger with sin, which will result in the total destruction of the sinner in the grave. For instance Sodom was punished with "eternal fire" as per Jude 1:7 and that speaks of total destruction and not an never ending torment...though their end is eternal!

We will eventually get to the NT but for now I am really interested in how people view their belief and reconcile it with the OT.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Hells is created for the Devil and His angels.
its the beginning of the 2nd Death, that ends with the Lake of Fire.
Its related to Revelation 20:11
Its related to "outer darkness" and "gnashing of teeth". "where the fire is not quenched".

For now you are at the wrong end of the Book. Using highly symbolic language and prophetic also isnt what we are trying to do in this thread. We want to find the story of this burning place you call Hell. Preferably in the OT to start with as this is the seed bed of the NT and what of all those millions upon millions who knew nothing about this fanciful place?

We will get to the NT and eventually to those symbolic verses in Rev 20.

F2F

 

[Jack]

If the current line of reasoning is consistent across all the members who believe in this eternal place of torment then this fact that the OT is silent on these ideas it's leaning toward the "fire" in the NT is likely figurative of something else. I will give the OP time to mature but I will continue to ask for OT evidence with the view of proving figurative fire (JW LIE) is the intended meaning.

We know this to be true of course because of its use in speaking back to OT events. The Bible often use's the imagery of eternal fire in order to represent God's anger with sin, which will result in the total destruction of the sinner in the grave. For instance Sodom was punished with "eternal fire" as per Jude 1:7 and that speaks of total destruction and not an never ending torment...though their end is eternal!

We will eventually get to the NT but for now I am really interested in how people view their belief and reconcile it with the OT.

F2F

Yep!

 

[Dropship]

..So all those people who went before Jesus were not told about this eternal place of torment - is that your belief?....
Do you disregard the Old Testament for your belief in Hell? Are you a NT only believer?
It's obvious to all reading this you are unable to show your understanding of Hell from Genesis or the OT.
Is this true?

What's there to understand?
The ancient jews called it 'Sheol' long before Jesus arrived..
WIKI- "Sheol, a subterranean underworld where the souls of the dead went after the body died"

 

[face2face]

Nah, the ancient jews called it 'Sheol' long before Jesus arrived..

Okay so show us where "sheol' is used to explain this place of eternal fire.

 

[Jack]

Okay so show us where "sheol' is used to explain this place of eternal fire.

Don't you JW's read the NT?

 

[face2face]

Keep in mind @Dropship the use of sheol is just another word for the grave so finding Biblical content to prove the grave is this place of eternal burning will be impossible.

"Let the wicked...be silent in the grave (sheol)" as per Psalms 31:17 - so they will not be screaming in agony right?

I mean if they are being burnt :smlhmm: