The answer of hell and its origins

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

bbyrd009

Groper
Nov 30, 2016
33,943
12,081
113
Ute City, COLO
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States Minor Outlying Islands
The only comment you've made was about God is a torturer, now you say you have a comment about the nature of torture.
um no, sorry, i have made no comments whatsoever about Yah being a torturer
Honesty about ourselves is the first step to being good ground for God to bless.
you should try it sometime :)
I don't know what you think anymore, since you cease to say God is a torturer, and haven't offered anything about the nature of torture yet.
again you are mistaken wadr, and it is easily available for review
My view from Scripture, that I can't yet prove, is that the nature of torment in flames of hell, is mostly that of knowing we are eternally separate from God and His Light of life. That's maybe the reason hell's chains are of darkness (2 Peter 2:4), and the eternally lost are as wandering stars in the blackness of darkness forever. (Jude)
well that might be your view, but ppl often misinterpret Scripture to suit their purposes, and that is all you have done there, sorry
Gehenna is not "hel" as we understand it, by any means

you seek immortality after death, so that your enormous ego may live, and that will cloud every interpretation you make, until you see the light, imo

I will never leave you nor forsake you
Return to Me and I wil return to you
 
  • Like
Reactions: The Learner

The Learner

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2022
3,826
1,027
113
67
Brighton
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
you do not understand Job’s sin, that brought death, and required his life
Job 1
Easy-to-Read Version
Job, the Good Man
1 There was a man named Job who lived in the country of Uz. He was a good, honest man. He respected God and refused to do evil. 2 Job had seven sons and three daughters. 3 He owned 7000 sheep, 3000 camels, 1000 oxen, and 500 female donkeys. He had many servants. He was the richest man in the east.

4 Job’s sons took turns having dinner parties in their homes, and they invited their sisters. 5 The day after each of these parties, Job got up early in the morning, sent for his children, and offered a burnt offering for each of them. He thought, “Maybe my children were careless and sinned against God at their party.” Job always did this so that his children would be forgiven of their sins.

6 Then the day came for the angels[a] to meet with the Lord. Even Satan was there with them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, “Where have you been?”

Satan answered the Lord, “I have been roaming around the earth, going from place to place.”

8 Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you noticed my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him. He is a good, faithful man. He respects God and refuses to do evil.”

9 Satan answered the Lord, “But Job has a good reason to respect you. 10 You always protect him, his family, and everything he has. You have blessed him and made him successful in everything he does. He is so wealthy that his herds and flocks are all over the country. 11 But if you were to destroy everything he has, I promise you that he would curse you to your face.”

12 The Lord said to Satan, “All right, do whatever you want with anything that he has, but don’t hurt Job himself.”

Then Satan left the meeting.

Job Loses Everything
13 One day Job’s sons and daughters were eating and drinking wine at the oldest brother’s house. 14 A messenger came to Job and said, “We were plowing the fields with the oxen and the donkeys were eating grass nearby, 15 when some Sabeans attacked us and took your animals! They killed the other servants. I am the only one who escaped to come and tell you the news!”

16 That messenger was still speaking when another one came in and said, “A bolt of lightning[c] struck your sheep and servants and burned them up. I am the only one who escaped to come and tell you the news!”

17 That messenger was still speaking when another one came in and said, “The Chaldeans[d] sent out three raiding parties that attacked us and took the camels! They killed the other servants. I am the only one who escaped to come and tell you the news!”

18 That messenger was still speaking when another one came in and said, “Your sons and daughters were eating and drinking wine at the oldest brother’s house. 19 A strong wind suddenly came in from across the desert and blew the house down. It fell on your sons and daughters, and they are all dead. I am the only one who escaped to come and tell you the news!”

20 When Job heard this, he got up, tore his clothes, and shaved his head to show his sadness. Then he fell to the ground to bow down before God 21 and said,

“When I was born into this world,
I was naked and had nothing.
When I die and leave this world,
I will be naked and have nothing.
The Lord gives,
and the Lord takes away.
Praise the name of the Lord!”

22 Even after all this, Job did not sin. He did not accuse God of doing anything wrong.

Footnotes
Job 1:6 angels Literally, “sons of God.”
Job 1:15 Sabeans A group of people from the Arabian Desert, probably south of Uz.
Job 1:16 A bolt of lightning Or “God’s fire fell from the sky.”
Job 1:17 Chaldeans Tribes of people who moved from place to place in the area between the Euphrates and Jordan rivers.
 

The Learner

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2022
3,826
1,027
113
67
Brighton
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Job 2
Easy-to-Read Version
Satan Bothers Job Again
2 Then another day came for the angels[a] to meet with the Lord. Satan joined them for this meeting with the Lord. 2 The Lord said to Satan, “Where have you been?”

Satan answered the Lord, “I have been roaming around the earth, going from place to place.”

3 Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you noticed my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him. He is a good, faithful man. He respects God and refuses to do evil. He is still faithful, even though you asked me to let you destroy, without reason, everything he has.”

4 Satan answered, “Skin for skin! A man will give everything he has to protect himself. 5 I swear, if you attack his flesh and bones, he will curse you to your face!”

6 So the Lord said to Satan, “All right, Job is in your hands, but you are not allowed to kill him.”

7 So Satan left the meeting with the Lord and gave Job painful sores all over his body, from the bottom of his feet to the top of his head. 8 Job sat on the pile of ashes where he was mourning and used a piece of broken pottery to scrape his sores. 9 His wife said to him, “Are you still holding on to your faith? Why don’t you just curse God and die!”

10 Job answered, “You sound like one of those fools on the street corner! How can we accept all the good things that God gives us and not accept the problems?” So even after all that happened to Job, he did not sin. He did not accuse God of doing anything wrong.

Job’s Three Friends Come to See Him
11 Job’s three friends heard about all the bad things that happened to him, so Eliphaz came from Teman, Bildad from Shuah, and Zophar from Naamah. They met together and went to comfort Job and show him their sympathy. 12 But his friends didn’t even recognize him when they first saw him in the distance! They began to cry loudly. They tore their clothes and threw dirt in the air over their heads to show how sad they were. 13 Then they sat on the ground with Job for seven days and seven nights. They didn’t say a word, because they saw he was in so much pain.

Footnotes
Job 2:1 angels Literally, “sons of God.”
 

The Learner

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2022
3,826
1,027
113
67
Brighton
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Job 3
Easy-to-Read Version
Job Curses the Day He Was Born
3 Then Job opened his mouth and cursed the day he was born. 2 He said,

3 “I wish the day I was born would be lost forever.
I wish the night they said, ‘It’s a boy!’ had never happened.
4 I wish that day had remained dark.
I wish God above had forgotten that day
and not let any light shine on it.
5 I wish that bitter day had remained as dark as death,
covered with the darkest clouds.
6 I wish the darkness had carried away that night,
that it was left off the calendar
and not included in any of the months.
7 I wish that night had produced nothing
and no happy shouts had been heard.
8 Some magicians think they can wake Leviathan.[a]
So let them say their curses and curse the day I was born.
9 Let that day’s morning star be dark.
Let that night wait for a morning that never comes.
I wish it had never seen the first rays of sunlight.
10 I wish it had stopped me from being born
and kept me from seeing all these troubles.
11 Why didn’t I die when I was born?
Why didn’t I die as I came from my mother’s womb?
12 Why did my mother hold me on her knees?
Why did her breasts feed me?
13 If I had died when I was born,
I would be at peace now.
I wish I were asleep and at rest
14 with the kings and their advisors
who built palaces that are now in ruins.
15 I wish I were buried with rulers
who filled their graves with gold and silver.
16 Why wasn’t I a child who died at birth
and was put in the ground?
I wish I had been buried like a baby
who never saw the light of day.
17 There the wicked stop causing trouble,
and the weary find rest.
18 Even prisoners find relief there;
they no longer hear their guards shouting at them.
19 Everyone—from the greatest to the least important—will be there,
and even the slave is free from his master.

20 “Why must a suffering person continue to live?
Why let anyone live such a bitter life?
21 Such people want to die, but death does not come.
They search for death more than for hidden treasure.
22 They would be happy to find their grave.
They would rejoice to find their tomb.
23 But God keeps their future a secret
and builds a wall around them to protect them.
24 When it is time to eat, all I can do is sigh with sadness, not joy.
My groans pour out like water.
25 I was afraid something terrible would happen,
and what I feared most has happened.
26 I cannot calm down or relax.
I am too upset to rest!”

Footnotes
Job 3:8 Leviathan Here, this is probably a giant sea monster. Some people thought magicians were able to make it “swallow the sun,” that is, cause an eclipse.
 

The Learner

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2022
3,826
1,027
113
67
Brighton
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Job 4
Easy-to-Read Version
Eliphaz Speaks
4 Eliphaz from Teman answered:

2 “I must say something.
Would it upset you if I speak?
3 Job, you have taught many people.
You encouraged those who were ready to quit.
4 Your words helped those who were ready to fall.
You gave strength to those who could not stand by themselves.
5 But now trouble comes to you,
and you are discouraged.
Trouble hits you,
and you are upset.
6 You worship God.
You trust him.
You are a good man,
so let that be your hope.
7 Can you think of any innocent person who was ever destroyed?
Do you know of any place where good people are punished?
8 Yes, I have seen people whose lives were cut short,
but they were evil troublemakers.
9 They lost the breath God gave them.
They were cut off from his breath of life.
10 They were like roaring lions,
like growling lions with broken teeth—
11 like a lioness that cannot find prey.
They died, and their cubs starved to death.

12 “I happened to hear a message.
My ears caught a whisper of it.
13 Like a bad dream[a] in the night,
it ruined my sleep.
14 It frightened me,
and I trembled down to my bones.
15 A spirit passed by my face.
The hair on my body stood up!
16 The spirit stood still,
but I could not see what it was.
A shape stood before my eyes,
and there was silence.
Then I heard a quiet voice:
17 ‘A person cannot be more right than God.
People cannot be more pure than their Maker.
18 Look, God cannot even trust his heavenly servants.
He sees faults even in his angels.
19 So surely people are worse!
They live in houses of clay built on dust.
They can be crushed as easily as a moth!
20 From dawn to sunset people are destroyed.
They die—gone forever—and no one even notices.
21 The ropes of their tent are pulled up,
and they die before gaining wisdom.’

Footnotes
Job 4:13 bad dream Or “vision of the night.”
Job 4:19 houses of clay This means the human body.
 

The Learner

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2022
3,826
1,027
113
67
Brighton
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Pretell, where do you see Job's sin??? I understand that Job was a righteous man whom Satan wanted to test. God Bless Brother
 

The Learner

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2022
3,826
1,027
113
67
Brighton
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Well, God bless you too. I could see you were only speaking in rhetorical terms about 'God torturing people'. But that is an accusation that I used to consider as an unbeliever myself. It's just a deceptive devise of the devil for sinful man to accuse God of being worse than himself. It's an old tool for justifying ourselves more than God.

Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?

I have learned to try and be rid of every tradition and imagination, that Scripture does not specifically teach. My guide is, if God doesn't say it plainly, then it isn't necessarily true. No Scripture says "God torturers" any of His created creatures and beings.

We torture ourselves by defying Him, because Light and Life is only in Him, and the God that is love is not bound by His love for man, to allow man to forever be defying Him and doing harm to others that love Him. That is not the love of someone that has it in their power to do away with evil, including the evil doers.

The death penalty is not just to punish the murderer, but to stop that murderer from murdering again.

For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

Peter shows that God's main purpose in flooding the whole earth, was not to just destroy the wicked, but to save Noah from being destroyed by them, and cutting off any hope of any woman on earth bringing forth Jesus Christ the Son of God.

Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

The main purpose of the water, was to save them in the ark from the wicked.
Proverbs 27:17
As one piece of iron sharpens another, so friends keep each other sharp.

My purpose is to be corrected and learn from others. God bless all, soon I will kicked off by my lovely wife.
 

The Learner

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2022
3,826
1,027
113
67
Brighton
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Sorry, but I have needed a slap across the face to wake up also. Just recently I got a good one, and had to back off and repent. On paper, not physically. That hasn't happened since my Mom did 40 years ago.
Thjere are times I need a
1676933383860.png
 

The Learner

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2022
3,826
1,027
113
67
Brighton
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
um no, sorry, i have made no comments whatsoever about Yah being a torturer

you should try it sometime :)

again you are mistaken wadr, and it is easily available for review

well that might be your view, but ppl often misinterpret Scripture to suit their purposes, and that is all you have done there, sorry
Gehenna is not "hel" as we understand it, by any means

you seek immortality after death, so that your enormous ego may live, and that will cloud every interpretation you make, until you see the light, imo

I will never leave you nor forsake you
Return to Me and I wil return to you
I made the dumb statements and was corrected, thanks all.
 

robert derrick

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2021
7,669
1,418
113
63
Houston, tx
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
um no, sorry, i have made no comments whatsoever about Yah being a torturer

certainly He does, to those some being “tortured,” since “torture” is subjective, as i said
Then you only agree with them that do say God is torturing them. Job was mistaken about that too.

I didn't think I got it wrong.

You're not a serious enough person to bother with.
 

bbyrd009

Groper
Nov 30, 2016
33,943
12,081
113
Ute City, COLO
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States Minor Outlying Islands
Pretell, where do you see Job's sin??? I understand that Job was a righteous man whom Satan wanted to test
ya, i guess youre supposed to have that initial impression?
it doesnt change on you til later; like “here a little there a little” and “iron sharpens iron?”
or, there’s a better known one…that isnt coming to mind at the moment
anyway more like chap 42 or so
 
  • Like
Reactions: The Learner

bbyrd009

Groper
Nov 30, 2016
33,943
12,081
113
Ute City, COLO
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States Minor Outlying Islands
Then you only agree with them that do say God is torturing them
rd, you post and listen very black and white; i did not say that to agree with God torturing, but to say that torturing is very subjective, and you could as easily have addressed the Scriptures that imply that He indeed does—“Have you come to torture us before the appointed time?” or one of the others—had you really been interested in challenging the point, rather than simply trying to paper it over and be right in your own eyes.

and frankly im not interested in being berated about this subject that im not that interested in anyway; this all started with my asking you to quote or reference an accusation you were then currently making, for clarification, and all youve done since is accuse me, like youre doing now.

No, i do not only agree with them that do say God is torturing them and yes, there is more than one way to look at that, whether you choose to see that or not.

And, there are Bible vv that suggest that God will be torturing some demons at some point in the future, albeit from the demons point of view, which was the point about the subjectiveness. Have a nice evening
 
Last edited: