The answer of hell and its origins

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The Learner

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God is eternal and has no "beginning point". Nothing else is eternal.
Not the same concept, God is immortal without beginning and without end.

We Carbon Based life forms were created, and God in his mercy(when we repent) grants eternal life.
 

Patrick1966

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If Hell is forever, then this verse is FALSE.

1 Corinthians 15:20 "But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."
 

Patrick1966

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Jesus saves ALL mankind and then, in the end and after he has collected ALL men, death will be eliminated and God will hand over this church to God the father where the church will live with God on the new Earth.

1 Corinthians 15:24 "Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."
 

Patrick1966

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If Hell is forever then Jesus does NOT make "ALL things new".

Revelation 21:5 esv
And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”
 
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The Learner

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If Hell is forever, then this verse is false.

2 Samuel 14:14, ESV: We must all die; we are like water spilled on the ground, which cannot be gathered up again. But God will not take away life, and he devises means so that the banished one will not remain an outcast.
2 Samuel 14
Easy-to-Read Version
Joab Sends a Wise Woman to David
14 Joab son of Zeruiah knew that King David missed Absalom very much. 2 So Joab sent messengers to Tekoa to bring a wise woman from there. Joab said to this wise woman, “Please pretend to be very sad. Put on sackcloth. Don’t dress up. Act like a woman who has been crying many days for someone who died. 3 Go to the king and talk to him using these words that I tell you.” Then Joab told the wise woman what to say.

4 Then the woman from Tekoa talked to the king. She bowed with her face to the ground. Then she said, “King, please help me!”

5 King David said to her, “What’s your problem?”

The woman said, “I am a widow. My husband is dead. 6 I had two sons. They were out in the field fighting. There was no one to stop them. One son killed the other son. 7 Now the whole family is against me. They said to me, ‘Bring us the son who killed his brother and we will kill him, because he killed his brother.’ My son is like the last spark of a fire. If they kill my son, that fire will burn out and be finished. He is the only son left alive to get his father’s property. So my dead husband’s property will go to someone else and his name will be removed from the land.”

8 Then the king said to the woman, “Go home. I will take care of things for you.”

9 The woman of Tekoa said to the king, “Let the blame be on me, my lord and king. You and your kingdom are innocent.”

10 King David said, “If anyone is saying bad things to you, bring them to me. They will not bother you again.”

11 The woman said, “Please, use the name of the Lord your God and swear that you will stop these people. They want to punish my son for murdering his brother. Swear that you will not let them destroy my son.”

David said, “As the Lord lives, no one will hurt your son. Not even one hair from your son’s head will fall to the ground.”

12 The woman said, “My lord and king, please let me say something else to you.”

The king said, “Speak.”

13 Then the woman said, “Why have you planned these things against the people of God? When you say these things, you show you are guilty because you have not brought back the son who you forced to leave home. 14 We will all die some day. We will be like water that is spilled on the ground. No one can gather this water back from the ground. You know God forgives people. God made plans for people who are forced to run away for safety—God does not force them to run away from him! 15 My lord and king, I came to say these words to you, because the people made me afraid. I said to myself, ‘I will talk to the king. Maybe the king will help me. 16 The king will listen to me and save me from the man who wants to kill me and my son. That man just wants to keep us from getting what God gave us.’ 17 I know that the words of my lord the king will give me rest, because you are like an angel from God. You know what is good and what is bad. And the Lord your God is with you.”

18 King David answered the woman, “You must answer the question I will ask you.”

The woman said, “My lord and king, please ask your question.”

19 The king said, “Did Joab tell you to say all these things?”

The woman answered, “As you live, my lord and king, you are right. Your officer Joab did tell me to say these things. 20 Joab did this so that you would see things differently. My lord, you are as wise as God’s angel. You know everything that happens on earth.”

From context, this text has nothing to do with the judgement of God and eternal punishment.
1679358377685.png1679358393832.png1679358476736.png
 

Patrick1966

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If Hell is FOREVER, then this verse is FALSE.

2 Corinthians 5:19 esv
that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.
 

The Learner

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If Hell is forever then Jesus does NOT make "ALL things new".

Revelation 21:5 esv
And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”
1679358603745.png

Revelation 21

Easy-to-Read Version

The New Jerusalem​

21 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth. The first heaven and the first earth had disappeared. Now there was no sea. 2 And I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem,[a] coming down out of heaven from God. It was prepared like a bride dressed for her husband.
3 I heard a loud voice from the throne. It said, “Now God’s home is with people. He will live with them. They will be his people. God himself will be with them and will be their God. 4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death, sadness, crying, or pain. All the old ways are gone.”
5 The one who was sitting on the throne said, “Look, I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this, because these words are true and can be trusted.”
6 The one on the throne said to me, “It is finished! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give free water from the spring of the water of life to anyone who is thirsty. 7 All those who win the victory will receive all this. And I will be their God, and they will be my children. 8 But those who are cowards, those who refuse to believe, those who do terrible things, those who kill, those who sin sexually, those who do evil magic, those who worship idols, and those who tell lies—they will all have a place in the lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”
9 One of the seven angels came to me. This was one of the angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues. The angel said, “Come with me. I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” 10 The angel carried me away by the Spirit to a very large and high mountain. The angel showed me the holy city, Jerusalem. The city was coming down out of heaven from God.
11 The city was shining with the glory of God. It was shining bright like a very expensive jewel, like a jasper. It was clear as crystal. 12 The city had a large, high wall with twelve gates. There were twelve angels at the gates. On each gate was written the name of one of the twelve tribes of Israel. 13 There were three gates on the east, three gates on the north, three gates on the south, and three gates on the west. 14 The walls of the city were built on twelve foundation stones. On the stones were written the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
15 The angel who talked with me had a measuring rod made of gold. The angel had this rod to measure the city, its gates, and its wall. 16 The city was built in a square. Its length was equal to its width. The angel measured the city with the rod. The city was 12,000 stadia[c] long, 12,000 stadia wide, and 12,000 stadia high. 17 The angel also measured the wall. It was 144 cubits[d] high. (The angel was using the same measurement that people use.) 18 The wall was made of jasper. The city was made of pure gold, as pure as glass.
19 The foundation stones of the city walls had every kind of expensive jewels in them. The first foundation stone was jasper, the second was sapphire, the third was chalcedony, the fourth was emerald, 20 the fifth was onyx, the sixth was carnelian, the seventh was yellow quartz, the eighth was beryl, the ninth was topaz, the tenth was chrysoprase, the eleventh was jacinth, and the twelfth was amethyst. 21 The twelve gates were twelve pearls. Each gate was made from one pearl. The street of the city was made of pure gold, as clear as glass.
22 I did not see a temple in the city. The Lord God All-Powerful and the Lamb were the city’s temple. 23 The city did not need the sun or the moon to shine on it. The glory of God gave the city light. The Lamb was the city’s lamp.
24 The peoples of the world will walk by the light given by the Lamb. The rulers of the earth will bring their glory into the city. 25 The city’s gates will never close on any day, because there is no night there. 26 The greatness and the honor of the nations will be brought into the city. 27 Nothing unclean will ever enter the city. No one who does shameful things or tells lies will ever enter the city. Only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life will enter the city.

Footnotes​

  1. Revelation 21:2 new Jerusalem The spiritual city where God’s people live with him.
  2. Revelation 21:6 Alpha … Omega The first and last letters in the Greek alphabet, meaning the beginning and the end.
  3. Revelation 21:16 stadia One Greek stadion was 600 feet, about 185 meters.
  4. Revelation 21:17 cubits A cubit is the length of a man’s arm from the elbow to the tip of the little finger, about half a meter.
 

Patrick1966

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2 Samuel 14
Easy-to-Read Version
14 We will all die some day. We will be like water that is spilled on the ground. No one can gather this water back from the ground. You know God forgives people. God made plans for people who are forced to run away for safety—God does not force them to run away from him!

I think that translation misses the mark. Here's a better one.

2 Samuel 14:14

Young's Literal Translation

14 for we do surely die, and [are] as water which is running down to the earth, which is not gathered, and God doth not accept a person, and hath devised devices in that the outcast is not outcast by Him.
 

Patrick1966

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If Jesus loses anyone forever, then this verse is FALSE.

John 6:39 esv
And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.
 

Patrick1966

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If Hell is FOREVER, then this verse in Romans is FALSE.

Philippians 2:10-11 esv
so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Romans 10:9 esv
because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
 

The Learner

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I think that translation misses the mark. Here's a better one.

2 Samuel 14:14​

Young's Literal Translation​

14 for we do surely die, and [are] as water which is running down to the earth, which is not gathered, and God doth not accept a person, and hath devised devices in that the outcast is not outcast by Him.
Hebrew was my first language and I know YLT is not close, and ERV is right on.
God Bless. Daniel

Blessings: May God grant you and yours, long life, good health, prosperity, nice family, obedant spouce and children, wisdom and may that virus jus die.
 

The Learner

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If Hell is FOREVER, then this verse in Romans is FALSE.

Philippians 2:10-11 esv
so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Romans 10:9 esv
because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
again context matters brother. Phil 2 is simply recognizing the truth by all about Our Lord and Saviour.

Romans 10 only applies to those who repent and follow Jesus.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Looks like it has been discussed here before: The meaning of αἰώνιος/aionios and αἰών/aion.


"
For those arguing for some form of temporal punishment for non-believers citing the Greek word aiōnion, which they say may not be eternal but only age long, I ask for consistency. To be consistent, the advocates of temporal punishment would have to say for believers that life eternal may be only age long or temporal. To argue this is absurd since the same Greek word for everlasting punishment and life eternal is used in the Matthew passage.

The proponents of temporal punishment are committing a fallacy that is known as amphiboly, which comes from the Greek word “indeterminate.” This fallacy is similar to equivocation. Here, the ambiguity results from an inconsistent grammatical misreading. Consequently, since the same Greek word used to refer to both “everlasting punishment” and “life eternal,” it is a biblical conclusion that both believers and non-believers have an eternal/immortal soul."
The problem with this argument is they ignore so many scriptures that show that human beings are souls not that they have souls. When a human being dies and that breath of life leaves the flesh and blood human body the human being is no longer a living soul or living person. How can a person who doesn't exist anymore feel anything, think anything, see anything, etc. The everlasting punishment for those that God has judged as unrighteous is eternal death, everlasting death.
People don't want to acknowledge what when the scriptures say at Revelation 21:8 even though it's written down in black and white that the "LAKE of FIRE" is the "SECOND DEATH," the scriptures show this, but people continue to believe that death is a place. Death is a condition. Now the death that was brought into mankind because of Adam and Eve disobedience, it will be thrown into the lake of fire. Those scriptures teach that God will destroy out of existence this death that came to mankind because of Adam and Eve disobedience. The lake of fire is symbolic of the second death so the lake of fire represents a condition which is eternal death.
 
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RLT63

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Surely you not saying that the apostles and disciples of Jesus Christ didn't experience death. When they died they lay in the memorial tomb sleeping in death until the second presence of Jesus Christ which is when they will be resurrected from death (1 Thessalonians 4:13-17)
To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord if you are saved.
 
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RLT63

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If Hell is FOREVER, then this verse is FALSE.

2 Corinthians 5:19 esv
that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.
Rev 20:10 - And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day-and night for ever and ever.