The answer of hell and its origins

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Basic JW doctrine: The Bible doesn't mean what it says. It means what Kingdom Hall says.

By texting this above you're teaching me that must believe what you and others say because when someone disagrees with you they absolutely must be wrong or in error or going by their own doctrine because you're infallible right Jack you and never be wrong about what you say. You're the one denying that a person continues living after death, not me. I believe what God said to Adam that he would die if he ate from the forbidden tree. That means he would not be a living soul or living person, if he died. You're the one who's saying that Adam didn't die. You're the one who is saying he is still a living soul or living person.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

So, Jesus didn't exist for 3 days? Oh my!

That's right Jack for parts of three days Jesus wasn't a living person

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

No, the dead in Christ shall rise first

Yes those who were faithful to Jesus who will be kings and judges and priests with Jesus in that heavenly Messianic kingdom who died before the second presence of Jesus Christ begins will be resurrected first when the second presence of Jesus Christ begins then those who are living on earth who are the the remnant of that number who will be kings and judges and priests with Jesus in that heavenly Messianic kingdom when they die at the moment of their death at the twinkling of the eye they will be changed and caught up to be with Jesus in that heavenly Messianic kingdom.

 

[RLT63]

Yes those who were faithful to Jesus who will be kings and judges and priests with Jesus in that heavenly Messianic kingdom who died before the second presence of Jesus Christ begins will be resurrected first when the second presence of Jesus Christ begins then those who are living on earth who are the the remnant of that number who will be kings and judges and priests with Jesus in that heavenly Messianic kingdom when they die at the moment of their death at the twinkling of the eye they will be changed and caught up to be with Jesus in that heavenly Messianic kingdom.

Oh, so these are only those who have the heavenly hope?

 

[Jack]

By texting this above you're teaching me that must believe what you and others say because when someone disagrees with you they absolutely must be wrong or in error or going by their own doctrine because you're infallible right Jack you and never be wrong about what you say. You're the one denying that a person continues living after death, not me. I believe what God said to Adam that he would die if he ate from the forbidden tree. That means he would not be a living soul or living person, if he died. You're the one who's saying that Adam didn't die. You're the one who is saying he is still a living soul or living person.

Nice Fairy Tale, but the truth is that Kingdom Hall TWISTS nearly every verse in the Bible.

 

[Jack]

That's right Jack for parts of three days Jesus wasn't a living person

There you go folks! JW's believe that Jesus didn't exist for 3 days! IOW, no Savior!

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Oh, so these are only those who have the heavenly hope?

Those of the heavenly hope who will be the ones who will be kings, priests, and judges with Jesus in that heavenly Messianic kingdom who have died before the second presence of Jesus Christ begins, they will be resurrected first. They will get a resurrection like Jesus who when he was resurrected was given immortality and inherited incorruption.
Then those who are on earth who are the remnant of those who will be kings, priests and judges in that heavenly Messianic kingdom when they die, at the moment of death they are changed in a twinkling of the eye and will be caught up to Jesus. This is the first resurrection, those of the heavenly calling. Those who will get a resurrection as human beings back on earth will not be resurrected until sometime after Armageddon during the thousand year reign of Jesus Christ. These who will be resurrected on earth as human beings will be the subjects of that heavenly Messianic kingdom. Those of the heavenly Messianic kingdom will rule over the humans on earth after Armageddon.

 

[RLT63]

Those of the heavenly hope who will be the ones who will be kings, priests, and judges with Jesus in that heavenly Messianic kingdom who have died before the second presence of Jesus Christ begins, they will be resurrected first. They will get a resurrection like Jesus who when he was resurrected was given immortality and inherited incorruption.
Then those who are on earth who are the remnant of those who will be kings, priests and judges in that heavenly Messianic kingdom when they die, at the moment of death they are changed in a twinkling of the eye and will be caught up to Jesus. This is the first resurrection, those of the heavenly calling. Those who will get a resurrection as human beings back on earth will not be resurrected until sometime after Armageddon during the thousand year reign of Jesus Christ. These who will be resurrected on earth as human beings will be the subjects of that heavenly Messianic kingdom. Those of the heavenly Messianic kingdom will rule over the humans on earth after Armageddon.

JWs are the only ones who teach this. There are not two classes of Christians.

 

[RLT63]

There you go folks! JW's believe that Jesus didn't exist for 3 days! IOW, no Savior!

Then why does the Bible say he preached to the spirits in prison? 1Pe 3:19 - By which also-he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

 

[Jack]

Then why does the Bible say he preached to the spirits in prison? 1Pe 3:19 - By which also-he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

Good question!

 

[RLT63]

Good question!

There are certain verses that some people just ignore

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Nice Fairy Tale, but the truth is that Kingdom Hall TWISTS near every verse in the Bible.

You're the one denying death Jack not the the Jehovah's Witnesses. You are the one claiming that a person continues living after death Jack. Not the Jehovah's Witnesses. You're going to lie about anyone who believes human beings actually do die and sleep in death until they're resurrected from the dead. They don't continue living Jack. Those who teach that, are teaching that there is no death, because they're teaching just as those of false religion teach that death is just another doorway to another plain of existence and a person continues living.

JWs are the only ones who teach this. There are not two classes of Christians.

They're will those who will be kings, priests and judges with Jesus in that heavenly Messianic kingdom, they will have immortal and incorruptible spirit bodies in heaven with Jesus and rule over earth. Then there will be those who will live on paradise earth, these will consist of the combination of the ones who survive Armageddon and pass into the new earth and those that have died and are resurrected back on earth.

 

[RLT63]

You're the one denying death Jack not the the Jehovah's Witnesses. You are the one claiming that a person continues living after death Jack. Not the Jehovah's Witnesses. You're going to lie about anyone who believes human beings actually do die and sleep in death until they're resurrected from the dead. They don't continue living Jack. Those who teach that, are teaching that there is no death, because they're teaching just as those of false religion teach that death is just another doorway to another plain of existence and a person continues living.

They're will those who will be kings, priests and judges with Jesus in that heavenly Messianic kingdom, they will have immortal and incorruptible spirit bodies in heaven with Jesus and rule over earth. Then there will be those who will live on paradise earth, these will consist of the combination of the ones who survive Armageddon and pass into the new earth and those that have died and are resurrected back on earth.

JWs are the only ones who teach this

 

[Jack]

You're the one denying death Jack not the the Jehovah's Witnesses. You are the one claiming that a person continues living after death Jack. Not the Jehovah's Witnesses. You're going to lie about anyone who believes human beings actually do die and sleep in death until they're resurrected from the dead. They don't continue living Jack. Those who teach that, are teaching that there is no death, because they're teaching just as those of false religion teach that death is just another doorway to another plain of existence and a person continues living.

No Scripture? Of course not! You don't have any.

They're will those who will be kings, priests and judges with Jesus in that heavenly Messianic kingdom, they will have immortal and incorruptible spirit bodies in heaven with Jesus and rule over earth. Then there will be those who will live on paradise earth, these will consist of the combination of the ones who survive Armageddon and pass into the new earth and those that have died and are resurrected back on earth.

You sure do avoid a lot of Scriptures. Including the NWT! Isn't Luke 16 in the NWT? Of course it is. The rich man DIED and was very much alive in the fire. I'm sure he is wishing he "ceased to exist" as Kingdom Hall erroneously insists!

 

[The Learner]

So you're denying what 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 is saying? You're denying that the resurrection begins during the second presence of Jesus Christ? Even though this scripture here at Thessalonians says it begins during the second presence of Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 5:8
Easy-to-Read Version
8 So I say that we have confidence. And we really want to be away from this body and be at home with the Lord.

 

[The Learner]

When the breath(spirit) of life leaves the human body at death, he/she no longer is a living soul or living person, so yes death does mean he/she doesn't exist as a living soul or living person anymore and will not exist as a living soul or living person until the resurrection.
Death has always meant the human being life ends at death. The idea of human beings having living souls in the human body that separates at death and continues living as a living soul or living person comes from false religion.Those of the apostasy who said they were Christians but were not, borrowed ideas from those who worshipped false gods who believed human beings have souls and these who said they were Christians but were actually apostatized Christians began teaching like those of false religion that human beings have souls that continue living at death, instead of teaching as the scriptures teach that at death a human being is no longer a living soul or living person.

Revelation 6:9
And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Revelation 20:4
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Last, I checked slain and beheaded means they are physically dead.

 

[The Learner]

1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 is talking about the resurrection of the dead, not a rapture. So you are denying the resurrection of the dead.

1 Thessalonians 4
Easy-to-Read Version
A Life That Pleases God
4 Brothers and sisters, now I have some other things to tell you. We taught you how to live in a way that will please God. And you are living that way. Now we ask and encourage you in the Lord Jesus to live that way more and more. 2 You know all that we told you to do by the authority of the Lord Jesus. 3 God wants you to be holy. He wants you to stay away from sexual sins. 4 God wants each one of you to learn to control your own body. Use your body in a way that is holy and that gives honor to God.[a] 5 Don’t let your sexual desires control you like the people who don’t know God. 6 Never wrong any of your fellow believers or cheat them in this way. The Lord will punish those who do that. We have already told you this and warned you about it. 7 God chose us to be holy. He does not want us to live in sin. 8 So anyone who refuses to obey this teaching is refusing to obey God, not us. And God is the one who gives you his Holy Spirit.

9 We don’t need to write to you about having love for your brothers and sisters in Christ. God has already taught you to love each other. 10 In fact, you love all the believers in Macedonia. We encourage you now, brothers and sisters, to show your love more and more.

11 Do all you can to live a peaceful life. Mind your own business, and earn your own living, as we told you before. 12 If you do these things, then those who are not believers will respect the way you live. And you will not have to depend on others for what you need.

The Lord’s Coming
13 Brothers and sisters, we want you to know about those who have died. We don’t want you to be sad like other people—those who have no hope. 14 We believe that Jesus died, but we also believe that he rose again. So we believe that God will raise to life through Jesus any who have died and bring them together with him when he comes.

15 What we tell you now is the Lord’s own message. Those of us who are still living when the Lord comes again will join him, but not before those who have already died. 16 The Lord himself will come down from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. And the people who have died and were in Christ will rise first. 17 After that we who are still alive at that time will be gathered up with those who have died. We will be taken up in the clouds and meet the Lord in the air. And we will be with the Lord forever. 18 So encourage each other with these words.

Footnotes
1 Thessalonians 4:4 Or “God wants each of you to learn to live with your wife in a way that is holy and that gives honor to God.”

1 Thessalonians 4:17

King James Version

​

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

"
THE TERM “RAPTURE”
First of all, the word “rapture” is found in the Bible, if you have the Latin Vulgate
produced by Jerome in the early 400s. The Vulgate was the main Bible of the medieval
Western Church until the Reformation. It continues to this day as the primary Latin
translation of the Roman Catholic Church. Yet, as we shall see later, it was Protestants
who introduced the word “rapture” into the English language from the Latin raeptius.
1
It
was Jerome’s Vulgate that translated the original Greek verb harpazô used by Paul,
under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, in 1 Thessalonians 4:17, which is usually
translated into English with the phrase “caught up.” The leading Greek Lexicon says
that harpazô means “snatch, seize, i.e., take suddenly and vehemently.”2
This is the
same meaning of the Latin word rapio “to seize, snatch, tear away.”3
It should not be
surprising to anyone, that an..." https://digitalcommons.liberty.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1011&context=pretrib_arch

 

[The Learner]

Of course I've read Revelation 20:10 have you? My NWT at Revelation 20:10 has and asterisk beside the word torment which explains torment means restrained; imprisoned. So Revelation 20:10 means restrained in eternal death because the lake of fire in scripture is said to be the second death. Anything or anyone that is symbolically thrown into the lake of fire will never exist again. So all living persons whether Satan and his demons or humans that are symbolically thrown into the lake of fire will never exist as living persons again.

"
Verse 10
Was cast (εβληθη). First aorist (prophetic, affective) passive indicative of βαλλω (verse Revelation 20:3).

Into the lake of fire and brimstone (εις την λιμνην του πυρος κα θειου). As in Revelation 19:20 with the two beasts, as he adds, "where are also the beast and the false prophet" (οπου κα το θηριον κα ο ψευδοπροφητης).

They shall be tormented (βασανισθησοντα). Return to the prophetic future of verses Revelation 20:7; Revelation 20:8. For βασανιζω see Revelation 9:5; Revelation 14:10. For "day and night" (ημερας κα νυκτος) see Revelation 4:8; Revelation 7:15; Revelation 12:10; Revelation 14:11. For "for ever and ever" (εις τους αιωνας τον αιωνων) see Revelation 1:6; Revelation 1:18; Revelation 4:9; Revelation 4:10; Revelation 5:13; Revelation 7:12; Revelation 10:6; Revelation 11:15, etc. The devil was cast down from heaven (Revelation 12:9), then imprisoned (Revelation 20:2), now he received his final doom." Revelation 20 - Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

Englishman's Concordance
βασανισθήσονται (basanisthēsontai) — 2 Occurrences
Revelation 9:5 V-FIP-3P
GRK: ἀλλ' ἵνα βασανισθήσονται μῆνας πέντε
NAS: anyone, but to torment for five
KJV: that they should be tormented five
INT: but that they should be tormented months five

Revelation 20:10 V-FIP-3P
GRK: ψευδοπροφήτης καὶ βασανισθήσονται ἡμέρας καὶ
NAS: are also; and they will be tormented day
KJV: [are], and shall be tormented day
INT: false prophet and they will be tormented day and

Greek Concordance: βασανισθήσονται (basanisthēsontai) -- 2 Occurrences

biblehub.com

 

[The Learner]

TRANSLATIONS OF "ΒΑΣΑΝΙΣΜΈΝΟΣ" INTO ENGLISH IN SENTENCES, TRANSLATION MEMORY
DECLENSION
Stem
Με κάνει να δείχνω σκοτεινό και βασανισμένο.
It makes me appear dark and tormented.
OpenSubtitles2018.v3

Ή ίσως μια βασανισμένη ζωγράφος.
Or maybe just a tortured artist.
OpenSubtitles2018.v3

Δεν έχω δει κανένα άλλον τόσο βασανισμένο από καλά νέα.
Never seen anyone more tortured over good news.
OpenSubtitles2018.v3

Και ήταν προφητικό κατά τρόπο να αναφέρουμε ότι το δορυφόρο Ιώ, το βασανισμένο φεγγάρι.
And it was prescient in a way to name that satellite Io, the tormented moon.
OpenSubtitles2018.v3

Όχι, οι άνθρωποι στο επάγγελμά μου... που παρατείνουν τη ζωή τρομερά βασανισμένων ανθρώπων, είναι εγωιστές.
No, the people in my profession who prolong the lives of terribly tormented people are selfish.
OpenSubtitles2018.v3

Μπορώ μόνο να στέκομαι και να παρακολουθώ καθώς μεταμορφώνεται σε φτωχό, βασανισμένο ζώο.
I can only stand and watch as she is transformed into a poor, tormented creature.
OpenSubtitles2018.v3

Ω, σπόρε μου η αύρα σου φαίνεται πικραμένη αλλά μπορώ να φέρω ένα χαμόγελο στη βασανισμένη ψυχή σου.
Oh, my seed your aura looks pained but I can bring a smile to your tortured soul.
OpenSubtitles2018.v3

Την ίδια χρονιά, συμμετείχε για πρώτη φορά σε δραματική σειρά στον κινηματογράφο, ενσαρκώνοντας έναν βασανισμένο πατέρα και αστυνομικό στην ταινία του Franck Mancuso Contre-enquête.
This same year, he ventured in drama for the first time on the silver screen, playing a tortured father and cop in Franck Mancuso's Contre-enquête.
WikiMatrix

Βασανισμένο από δαίμονες που ποτέ δεν γνώρισες.
Tortured by demons you can never know.
OpenSubtitles2018.v3

Υπάρχουν αναφορές για θύματα αλλά δεν είναι ακόμα ξεκάθαρο πόσοι είναι νεκροί, ή αν κάποιος λαμπρός, ωστόσο βασανισμένος αστυνομικός ίσως σύντομα να κυνηγήσει τους δράστες.
There are reports of casualties but it's not yet clear how many are dead, or which brilliant yet tortured policeman might soon be on the tail of the culprit.
OpenSubtitles2018.v3

Ένας εξουθενωμένος και βασανισμένος άνθρωπος ξεκίνησε εκείνο το ταξίδι όμως ο άνθρωπος που αναδείχθηκε επέζησε όλων αυτών των δεινών και κατάφερε να εξελιχτεί και να ακολουθήσει τον προορισμό του.
A broken and haunted person began that journey, but the person who emerged was a survivor and would ultimately grow into the person I was destined to be.
QED

Μοιάζεις σαν να εισβάλεις σε μια μικρή χώρα χωρίς τίποτα αλλά με βασανισμένη την ψυχή σου
That look like you're about to invade a small country with nothing but your tortured soul.
OpenSubtitles2018.v3

Ξέρετε, βασανισμένος, θυμωμένος, ανήσυχος.
Oh, you know, harried, angry, worried.
OpenSubtitles2018.v3

Ήταν μια βασανισμένη ψυχή που έζησε χρόνια με μοναδικό σκοπό την εκδίκηση.
Here was this tortured soul who lived for years just on probably the revenge.
OpenSubtitles2018.v3

Κυρία Πρόεδρε, όταν η κατάσταση σε μια μικρή, βασανισμένη χώρα, την Αλβανία, είναι δραματική, όταν η χώρα αυτή βρίσκεται σε μιαν ευρύτερη εύφλεκτη περιοχή, όταν η οικονομική καταστροφή μυριάδων μικροκαταθετών απειλεί με αποσταθεροποίηση τη νεοπαγή δημοκρατία, όταν υπάρχουν σοβαρές υπόνοιες για τη δραστηριότητα μαφιών, πιστεύω ότι η αντίδρασή μας πρέπει να είναι άμεση και ρεαλιστική. 'Οχι ευχολόγια ή ιερεμιάδες.
Madam President, when the situation in a small, troubled country, Albania, is dramatic, when that country is part of a wider volatile area, when the economic ruin of thousands of small savers threatens to destabilize the newly emergent democracy, when there are serious suspicions of Mafia involvement, I believe our reaction should be immediate and realistic, and not confined to wishful thinking about Jeremiads or ideologically tinted advice.
Europarl8

Σταμάτησε να παίζεις το ρόλο του βασανισμένου μεθυσμένου που ψαρεύει ελιές από τα μαρτίνι και κάνει τους πάντες να πλήττουν με τραγικές ιστορίες.
Stop playing the part of the anguished drunk digging olives out of martinis and boring everybody with tragic stories.
OpenSubtitles2018.v3

ΟΤΑΝ ο Πιλάτος, υποκινημένος από την ήρεμη αξιοπρέπεια του βασανισμένου Ιησού, προσπαθεί ξανά να τον ελευθερώσει, οι αρχιερείς θυμώνουν ακόμα περισσότερο.
WHEN Pilate, moved by the quiet dignity of the tortured Jesus, again tries to release him, the chief priests become even angrier.
jw2019

Με ανθρώπους, βασανισμένους ανθρώπους.
With people, suffering people.
OpenSubtitles2018.v3

Δεν βλέπεις φαντάσματα, μα το κτίριο στέγαζε βασανισμένες ψυχές 150 χρόνια, και μπορείς να το νιώσεις.
You don't see ghosts, but any building that has had 150 years of tormenting souls... you can feel it.
OpenSubtitles2018.v3

Τίθεται πλέον τέλος -ή εν πάση περιπτώσει είναι η αρχή του τέλους- στην πρακτική του να καταβάλλεται υψηλή τιμή για το κρέας που προέρχεται από βασανισμένα ζώα, και σύντομα θα αποκτήσουμε ένα ωραίο μοσχαρίσιο κρέας ροζέ χρώματος από ευτυχισμένα ζώα.
An end - or at any rate the beginning of an end - is now put to the practice of paying a high price for meat that comes from animals that have been tortured, and we will soon have nice pink veal from happy animals.

βασανισμένος in English - Greek-English Dictionary | Glosbe

Check 'βασανισμένος' translations into English. Look through examples of βασανισμένος translation in sentences, listen to pronunciation and learn grammar.

glosbe.com

 

[The Learner]

above posts are simple grammar examples