The answer of hell and its origins

[Jack]

But those verses were speaking of an age and what it's saying is that, prior to the resurrection of ALL people, some will be sent to Heaven for the remainder of the age(s) and some will be sent to the Lake of Fire for the remainder of the age(s). At the end of that age(s), all are resurrected and join God in his kingdom in the new Earth, or at least this is my understanding.

So, God will burn them alive for years but not forever? Nah!

"They will be tormented day and night FOREVER and EVER"!

 

[Jack]

If Hell is FOREVER, then this verse is false.

Romans 5:18 Therefore as one trespass led to condemnation for all men so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men

Mk 16 He that believeth not shall be DAMNED!

 

[Patrick1966]

Mk 16 He that believeth not shall be DAMNED!

Of course. But it's not forever.

 

[The Learner]

I don't believe so because they are mistranslating Matthew 25:46

Matthew 25:46​

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Easy-to-Read Version​

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46 “Then these evil people will go away to be punished forever. But the godly people will go and enjoy eternal life.”

Verse 11​

And he gave (κα αυτος εδωκεν). First aorist active indicative of διδωμ. In 1 Corinthians 12:28 (NAS)

28 And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues.
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" tooltipenable="true" style="box-sizing: border-box; text-decoration: none; color: rgb(200, 83, 53); margin-left: 2px; margin-right: 2px; cursor: pointer;">1 Corinthians 12:28 Paul uses εθετο (more common verb, appointed), but here repeats εδωκεν from the quotation in verse Ephesians 4:8 (NAS)
8 Therefore it says, " When He ascended on high , He led captive a host of captives , And He gave gifts to men ."
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" tooltipenable="true" style="box-sizing: border-box; text-decoration: none; color: rgb(200, 83, 53); margin-left: 2px; margin-right: 2px; cursor: pointer;">Ephesians 4:8. There are four groups (τους μεν, τους δε three times, as the direct object of εδωκεν). The titles are in the predicate accusative (αποστολουσ, προφητασ, ποιμενας κα διδασκαλους). Each of these words occurs in 1 Corinthians 12:28 (NAS)
28 And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues.
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" tooltipenable="true" style="box-sizing: border-box; text-decoration: none; color: rgb(200, 83, 53); margin-left: 2px; margin-right: 2px; cursor: pointer;">1 Corinthians 12:28 (which see for discussion) except ποιμενας (shepherds). This word ποιμην is from a root meaning to protect. Jesus said the good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep (John 10:11 (NAS)
11 "I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.
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" tooltipenable="true" style="box-sizing: border-box; text-decoration: none; color: rgb(200, 83, 53); margin-left: 2px; margin-right: 2px; cursor: pointer;">John 10:11) and called himself the Good Shepherd. In Hebrews 13:20 (NAS)
20 Now the God of peace, who brought up from the dead the great Shepherd of the sheep through the blood of the eternal covenant, even Jesus our Lord,
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" tooltipenable="true" style="box-sizing: border-box; text-decoration: none; color: rgb(200, 83, 53); margin-left: 2px; margin-right: 2px; cursor: pointer;">Hebrews 13:20 Christ is the Great Shepherd (cf. 1 Peter 2:25 (NAS)
25 For you were continually straying like sheep, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Guardian of your souls.
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" tooltipenable="true" style="box-sizing: border-box; text-decoration: none; color: rgb(200, 83, 53); margin-left: 2px; margin-right: 2px; cursor: pointer;">1 Peter 2:25). Only here are preachers termed shepherds (Latin pastores) in the N.T. But the verb ποιμαινω, to shepherd, is employed by Jesus to Peter (John 21:16 (NAS)
16 He *said to him again a second time, "Simon, son of John, do you love Me?" He *said to Him, "Yes, Lord; You know that I love You." He *said to him, "Shepherd My sheep."
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" tooltipenable="true" style="box-sizing: border-box; text-decoration: none; color: rgb(200, 83, 53); margin-left: 2px; margin-right: 2px; cursor: pointer;">John 21:16), by Peter to other ministers (1 Peter 5:2 (NAS)
2 shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight not under compulsion, but voluntarily, according to the will of God; and not for sordid gain, but with eagerness;
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" tooltipenable="true" style="box-sizing: border-box; text-decoration: none; color: rgb(200, 83, 53); margin-left: 2px; margin-right: 2px; cursor: pointer;">1 Peter 5:2), by Paul to the elders (bishops) of Ephesus (Acts 20:28 (NAS)
28 Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.
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" tooltipenable="true" style="box-sizing: border-box; text-decoration: none; color: rgb(200, 83, 53); margin-left: 2px; margin-right: 2px; cursor: pointer;">Acts 20:28). Here Paul groups "shepherds and teachers" together. All these gifts can be found in one man, though not always. Some have only one.

Ephesians 4 - Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

Ephesians 4, Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament, One of over 125 Bible commentaries freely available, this commentary, verse-by-verse, paints word pictures to describe the New Testament

www.studylight.org

 

[The Learner]

good discussiona all

 

[Patrick1966]

good discussiona all

Why do you use laughy emojis to mock me, your brother in Christ?

 

[The Learner]

Why do you use laughy emojis to mock me, your brother in Christ?

No mocking brother, I apologize. Some things you wrote stuck me as funny.
Basically we come from different mindsets or colored glasses. I do see the If that is true then this is untrue or something like that. I see no connection of your post of verses and your logic to the text. I use well known Greek Scholars. Some of your posts seems mocking then I realize that I can not hear your voice or see your face expressions. Please, take the time to explain your mindset rather than just posting verses with the poor logic, if what is backed up by greek scholars than that contradicts an alternative interpretation of verses in your mindset. God Bless, Bro

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord if you are saved.

So you're denying what 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 is saying? You're denying that the resurrection begins during the second presence of Jesus Christ? Even though this scripture here at Thessalonians says it begins during the second presence of Jesus Christ.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Exact same Greek word. NEVER ending.

The never ending punishment for the unrighteous is never ending death. The unrighteous, those that God has judged unworthy of eternal life will never exist as living persons again, that's the never ending punishment.

 

[Jack]

The never ending punishment for the unrighteous is never ending death. The unrighteous, those that God has judged unworthy of eternal life will never exist as living persons again, that's the never ending punishment.

Death does not mean "cease to exist" no matter what Kingdom Hall says.

Have you read the NWT Barney?

NWT Rev 20 And they will be tormented day and night FOREVER and EVER!

 

[RLT63]

The never ending punishment for the unrighteous is never ending death. The unrighteous, those that God has judged unworthy of eternal life will never exist as living persons again, that's the never ending punishment.

That’s quite a stretch there.

 

[RLT63]

So you're denying what 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 is saying? You're denying that the resurrection begins during the second presence of Jesus Christ? Even though this scripture here at Thessalonians says it begins during the second presence of Jesus Christ.

No, I’m not denying the rapture at all 1Thess 4:13-17 clearly describes the rapture

 

[Jack]

That’s quite a stretch there.

That's typical from Kingdom Hall!

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Death does not mean "cease to exist" no matter what Kingdom Hall says.

When the breath(spirit) of life leaves the human body at death, he/she no longer is a living soul or living person, so yes death does mean he/she doesn't exist as a living soul or living person anymore and will not exist as a living soul or living person until the resurrection.
Death has always meant the human being life ends at death. The idea of human beings having living souls in the human body that separates at death and continues living as a living soul or living person comes from false religion.Those of the apostasy who said they were Christians but were not, borrowed ideas from those who worshipped false gods who believed human beings have souls and these who said they were Christians but were actually apostatized Christians began teaching like those of false religion that human beings have souls that continue living at death, instead of teaching as the scriptures teach that at death a human being is no longer a living soul or living person.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

No, I’m not denying the rapture at all 1Thess 4:13-17 clearly describes the rapture

1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 is talking about the resurrection of the dead, not a rapture. So you are denying the resurrection of the dead.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

That’s quite a stretch there.

No not a stretch, because you like many, deny death and eternal death. You instead teach that both faithful and unfaithful have eternal life, even though the scriptures have only taught that only the faithful are rewarded with eternal life.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Death does not mean "cease to exist" no matter what Kingdom Hall says.

Have you read the NWT Barney?

NWT Rev 20 And they will be tormented day and night FOREVER and EVER!

Of course I've read Revelation 20:10 have you? My NWT at Revelation 20:10 has and asterisk beside the word torment which explains torment means restrained; imprisoned. So Revelation 20:10 means restrained in eternal death because the lake of fire in scripture is said to be the second death. Anything or anyone that is symbolically thrown into the lake of fire will never exist again. So all living persons whether Satan and his demons or humans that are symbolically thrown into the lake of fire will never exist as living persons again.

 

[RLT63]

1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 is talking about the resurrection of the dead, not a rapture. So you are denying the resurrection of the dead.

No, the dead in Christ shall rise first

 

[Jack]

When the breath(spirit) of life leaves the human body at death, he/she no longer is a living soul or living person, so yes death does mean he/she doesn't exist as a living soul or living person anymore and will not exist as a living soul or living person until the resurrection.
Death has always meant the human being life ends at death. The idea of human beings having living souls in the human body that separates at death and continues living as a living soul or living person comes from false religion.Those of the apostasy who said they were Christians but were not, borrowed ideas from those who worshipped false gods who believed human beings have souls and these who said they were Christians but were actually apostatized Christians began teaching like those of false religion that human beings have souls that continue living at death, instead of teaching as the scriptures teach that at death a human being is no longer a living soul or living person.

So, Jesus didn't exist for 3 days? Oh my!

 

[Jack]

Of course I've read Revelation 20:10 have you? My NWT at Revelation 20:10 has and asterisk beside the word torment which explains torment means restrained; imprisoned. So Revelation 20:10 means restrained in eternal death because the lake of fire in scripture is said to be the second death. Anything or anyone that is symbolically thrown into the lake of fire will never exist again. So all living persons whether Satan and his demons or humans that are symbolically thrown into the lake of fire will never exist as living persons again.

Basic JW doctrine: The Bible doesn't mean what it says. It means what Kingdom Hall says.