1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

The Ark of The Covenant

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by herald, May 23, 2007.

  1. Daniyel

    Daniyel New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0
    In fact, the SDA are in practice at variance with their very own dogmatic assertions about the Sabbath. All details concerning the observance of the Sabbath commandment are found in Exodus 16:23, 20:10, 35:2,3. Do they indeed keep the biblical injunctions concerning the Sabbath?As my father was an SDA, I have learnt through sad experience that they are “always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth” (2 Tim. 3:7). Thus, I will make this my final reply and then “shun profane and vain babblings” (2 Tim. 2:16). THE following questions are based on 2 Cor. 3:3-16. (Cf. Exodus 34:27, 28.) 1. Was "the ministration of death" (verse 7) written and engraven on stones? Yes or No? 2. Were the Ten Commandments written and engraven on stones? Yes or No? 3. Was anything else written and engraven on stones? Yes or No? 4. Then does this mean the Ten Commandments? Yes or No? 5. Was that which was written and engraven on stones called "glorious"? Yes or No? 6. Was that which was glorious to be done away? (Verse 11). Yes or No? 7. Again, does this mean the Ten Commandments? Yes or No?Again and again in the New Testament occur passages which show that the covenant which was written on tables of stone was brought to an end at the cross. 2 Cor. 3: 3-14 is especially significant: "Our sufficiency is of God; who also hath made us able witnesses of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away, how shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory . . . For if that which is done away is glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious." The apostle institutes a number of contrasts between the two covenants. It will help us if we set them side by side. 2 Cor. 3: 3-14Old Testament (14) New Testament (6) Tables of stone (3) Tables of the Heart (3)The Letter Killeth (6) The Spirit giveth life (6)Ministration of Death (7) Ministration of Spirit (8)Glorious (11) Much more glorious (11)Ministration of Condemnation (9) Ministration of Righteousness (9)Done away (11) Remaineth (11) Note that the apostle speaks of that which was written and engraven in stones as a ministration of death, glorious indeed, but "done away." The Adventist seeks to avoid the force of this passage by quibbling about the word "ministration." But the sturdy fact remains that whatever the ministration of death was, it was that which was written and engraven in stones (7) glorious though it was, that was "done away" (11). But the Jews of Paul's day failed to see it, even as the Adventist fails to see it to-day. "Their minds were hardened: for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remaineth, it not being revealed to them that it is done away in Christ" (14) Am. R V.The Lord's Day. The disciples of the apostolic age, and the Christians in all the ages since, have observed the first day of the week, and not the seventh day sabbath, as the weekly day of worship and Christian activity. The obligation to keep the first day of the week as the Lord's day is not in any way associated with the Sabbath law of the Old Testament. The Sabbath commandment is often quoted as the authority for our observance of the Lord's Day. But this use of an Old Covenant law for a New Covenant institution leads to confusion, and is quite unnecessary. The Lord's Day does not need to be associated with the Sabbath law to give it sanctity. It stands in its own right. It is to the Christian the perpetual memorial of our Lord's resurrection, as the Sabbath was to the Jew a memorial of the deliverance from Egypt.The First Day. The Sabbath has not been changed. God did not change it. The pope did not change it. The Emperor Constantine did not change it. The sabbath was the seventh day of the week; the Lord's day is the first. The one was a day of rest for the Jews, the other is a day of worship and service for Christians. Our Lord himself signalised the first day of the week in such a way as to make it, for his disciples, the "day of all the week the best." Could any one, after an earnest and careful study of the following facts, doubt that the Master intended the first day of the week to have special significance for his disciples? On the first day of the week 1. Jesus rose from the dead (Matt. 28:1; Luke 24:1) 2. He appeared to various disciples (Matt. 28 etc.) 3. He appeared again the next Lord's day (John 20:26). 4. He gave the apostles legislative authority (John 20:23) 5. He gave them the great commission (Luke 24:36-39 Mark 14:14-16). 6. The Holy Spirit came at Pentecost (Acts 2:1-4; cf. Lev 23:15, 16). 7. The gospel was first preached (Acts 2:22). 8. The church was established (Acts 2:47). Never was there a greater in the history of the world than that on which Jesus rose from the dead. The Jewish sabbath was despoiled of its joy for the disciples, because it was the day on which Jesus lay in the tomb in which their hopes were also buried. But what a day was that which saw his, resurrection from the grave! No wonder it became the great memorial day of the church. "Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord" (John 20:20).After Eight Days. The risen Lord's appearances to various disciples on the first day of the week invest that day with special significance. It is, to say the least, a singular thing that none of these appearances was on the sabbath day. On the first day he showed himself alive by many infallible proofs (Luke 24:36-43; John 20:19), he opened their mind to understand the Scriptures (Luke 24:45), he breathed on them and said, "Receive ye the Holy Spirit" (John 20:22)--what sacred associations that day must have had for these disciples! When he appeared again the next week, on the first day of the week, the day was confirmed in their minds as a day of special importance (John 20:26). "After eight days again . . . Jesus cometh." In a desperate attempt to break the force of this mighty stream of emphasis on the first day of the week (the sabbath day, be it noted, does not receive any notice at all in connection with these resurrection days) the Seventh Day Adventists often try to assert that "after eight days" means that more than a week had elapsed. However, the scholars among them recognise that this was a common expression denoting the period of a week. Thus Elder Andrews, a Seventh Day Adventist historian, said that every writer before 170 A. D. calls the resurrection day the first day of the week, eighth day, or Sunday (Quoted by Canright). Justin Martyr, for instance, A. D. 140 says: "The first day after the sabbath, remaining first of all the days, is called, however, the eighth, according to the number of all the days of the cycle, and (yet) remains the first."The Day of Pentecost. Intelligent Bible readers will not need any elaborate statement to prove that the day of Pentecost (Acts 2) fell on the first day of the week. The passage cited above--Lev. 23:15, 16--shows that it was fifty days after the sabbath, on "the morrow after the seventh sabbath." On the first day of the week, therefore, the baptism of the Spirit was experienced by the disciples, the gospel was first preached under the commission, the law went forth from Zion and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem, as the prophets had foretold (Isa. 2:1-5; Micah 4:2), the church was established, and the first converts were won to Christ through the gospel. Of such transcendent importance was this great day in the beginning of the gospel dispensation! No wonder is it, therefore, that the first day of the week became known among Christian people as the Lord's Day (Rev. 1:10). Sabbatarians endeavour to apply the name to the sabbath of the Old Testament, because that day was "the sabbath of the Lord" (Ex. 20:10), and Jesus called himself Lord of the sabbath (Mark 2:28). But when Rev. 1:10 was written, the law which enjoined the Jewish sabbath had been abolished sixty years (Col. 2:16; Rom. 14:5; Gal. 4:10). The word "kuriake" translated "Lord" in our text, is an adjective, not a noun, and had we such an adjectival form, the correct rendering would he "the Lordian day." The word is used in but one other passage in the New Testament, 1 Cor. 11:20, where it is applied to another N.T. institution--"the Lordian supper." Ellicott says: "From the Supper it came to be applied to the day on which Christians met for the breaking of bread. The day is still called 'kuriake' in the Levant." That it was the custom of the early Christians to meet On the first day of the week for the breaking of bread we learn from Acts 20:7. Paul was on his way to Jerusalem, and for some reason stayed seven days in Troas. He Passed a sabbath day in the place, but if he observed it in any way, the fact is not stated. But "upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread," the apostle met with them. Note the association of words: First day of the week, disciples, to break bread. Compare it with any record of Paul's preaching on the sabbath day, as for instance, Acts 17:1, 2--"Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews, and Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days, etc." Synagogue, Jews, Sabbath! First day of the week, Disciples, Breaking of Bread! The old and the new! The Jewish and the Christian!A Memorial of the Resurrection. Seventh Day Adventists will object that we read this but once. But if they could find, once only, the statement, "On the sabbath day when the disciples met together to break bread," how that would change the whole outlook for them! They also seek to prove that this event took place on a Saturday evening. The Scripture says it was "the first day of the week." The apostle's direction to the church at Corinth "concerning the collection" (I Cor. 16:1, 2) shows that the Lord's day was a day on which the disciples gathered together. To lovers of the Lord the first day of the week is consecrated as a memorial of the resurrection; and as it was honored in the New Testament church, we seek to honor it as a day of holy joy in the service of Christ.Above quotes taken from: “The Sabbath or the Lord’s Day?”, T. H. Scambler.The Investigative JudgementThe investigative judgment doctrine, peculiar to Seventh-day Adventists, teaches that in fulfillment of Old Testament sanctuary typology, Christ entered into the second apartment of the sanctuary in heaven in 1844 in order to begin a work of "investigative judgment" to see who was worthy of eternal life, both of those still living and those dead.A brief background for this teaching is called for. Ellen G. White, under the influence of William Miller, an early Adventist, agreed with his date for the visible return of Christ. October of 1844 was set for the second coming of Christ. Christ obviously did not return on that date, so in order to "save face" over a false prophecy, "investigative judgment" was born.SDA's use Daniel 8:14 in their reasoning:In 1877, Uriah Smith, an early Adventist, declared, "Christ did not make the atonement when he shed his blood upon the cross. Let this fact be fixed forever in the mind".(The Sanctuary and the Twenty-Three Hundred Days of Daniel VIII, 14, p. 276, quoted in "Are the Gospel and the 1844 Theology Compatible?" by Robert D. Brinsmead, p.17).Ellen White herself declared (or plagiarized) in The Great Controversy that, "before Christ's work for the redemption of men is completed, there is a work of atonement for the removal of sin from the sanctuary. This is the service which began when the 2300 days ended." (1844).Above quotes: copyright, Biblical Discernment Ministries, reserve all rights.Glacier View ControversyA major denominational controversy erupted in 1980 regarding the investigative judgment. On 27 October 1979 Adventist scholar Desmond Ford delivered an address to the Association of Adventist Forums, held at Pacific Union College, in which he outlined the major problems that he perceived with the doctrine.[8] The church’s leadership responded by summoning Ford to a meeting of 111 theologians and church administrators to evaluate his views. The meeting took place at Glacier View, Colorado, from 11-15 August 1980.Ford presented his views to the Glacier View attendees in a 900 page document entitled Daniel 8:14, the Investigative Judgment, and the Kingdom of God. His arguments against the investigative judgment teaching included: _ The "year-for-a-day" principle is an incorrect method for interpreting prophecy. (The 1844 date for the commencment of the judgment is thus invalidated.) _ The prophecy of Daniel chapter 8 is primarily concerned with events in the 2nd century BC (namely, the persecution of the Jews by the Syrian king Antiochus Epiphanes), and there is no contextual or linguistic support for linking it to the heavenly sanctuary. The "cleansing" in Daniel 8:14 relates to the removal of the desecration caused by the "little horn" (i.e. Antiochus Epiphanes); it has nothing to do with the sins of Christians. In fact, the Hebrew word translated "cleansed" in the KJV (sadaq) is different from the word used for "cleansing" (taher) in the book of Leviticus in connection with the sanctuary; it is more accurately translated "vindicated" or "restored", as in most modern Bible versions. _ The epistle to the Hebrews teaches that the Day of Atonement was fulfilled by the death of Jesus on the cross. In particular, Hebrews 6:19, 9:12 and 10:19-20 teach that Jesus entered into the Most Holy Place of the heavenly sanctuary immediately after his ascension, not 1800 years later. Hebrews thus contradicts the traditional Adventist idea of a two-stage heavenly ministry of Christ.The Glacier View meeting ultimately produced two consensus statements, entitled “Christ in the Heavenly Sanctuary” and “The Role of Ellen G. White in Doctrinal Matters.” In addition, a ten-point summary was formulated by six of the attendees, outlining the main points of difference between Ford’s positions and traditional Adventist teaching. One month after Glacier View, Ford's employment with the Adventist church was terminated, and his ministerial credentials revoked. Ford has stated that Glacier View initially "produced a consensus statement that moved towards Dr. Ford's conclusions in seven out of ten of his major positions", but that by the conclusion of the meeting the church "reverted to their former traditional positions". Others have claimed that although theologians present at Glacier View sympathised with Ford's position, they were "intimidated into silence by ecclesiological pressure"; the Adventist church has denied this to be the case. According to a report of a 2005 meeting of the Adventist Forum in Sydney, held as a 25th anniversary of the Glacier View proceedings,"Ford also recalled the moment Raymond Cottrell came to him at Glacier View and with some foreboding said, 'Des, the administrators have not read your manuscript.' Cottrell may have overstated the case but it was a disturbing observation." It is widely held that many denominational ministers resigned (or were sacked) in the wake of Glacier View, because of their support for Ford's theology. It is also speculated that a significant number of current ministers privately agree with Ford but refrain from speaking publicly on the issue for fear of losing their employment. Many in the Adventist church feel that the events of 1980 represent a major milestone in the theological development of the church, and that the effects of this controversy continue to be felt today.The SDA and False ProphetsThe Bible lists six identifying marks of false prophets, any one of which is sufficient for identification: (1) through signs and wonders they lead astray after false gods (Dt. 13:1-4); (2) their prophecies don't come to pass (Dt. 18:20-22); (3) they contradict God's Word (Isa. 8:20); (4) they bear bad fruit (Mt. 7:18-20); (5) men speak well of them (Lk. 6:26); and (6) they deny that Jesus, the one and only Christ, has come once and for all in the flesh (1 Jn. 4:3), thereby denying His sufficiency in all matters of life and godliness (2 Pe. 1:3). Most cults are founded upon false prophecies: SDA originated with similar false prophesies about Christ's coming. It began with William Miller's prediction that Christ would return in 1843 (revised to October 22, 1844). Miller admitted his error. However, SDA prophetess Ellen G. White (EGW), who had repeatedly endorsed Miller's prophecy, insisted that Christ had indeed come, but not to earth. Instead, He had entered "the holy of holies" in heaven "to make an atonement for all who are shown to be entitled to its benefits" (The Great Controversy, p. 480). Number 17 of the "Fundamental Beliefs of Seventh-Day Adventists" states: "The Gift of Prophecy: One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction." Yet EGW made numerous false prophecies: that "Old Jerusalem never would be built up" (Early Writings, p. 75), that she would be alive at the Rapture (Early Writings, pp. 15-16), that Christ would return before slavery was abolished (Early Writings, pp. 35, 276), that Adventists living in 1856 would be alive at the Rapture (Testimonies for the Church, Vol. 3, pp. 131-132), and many more. Nevertheless, SDAs revere this false prophet's writings as if they were Scripture.Above quotes: copyright, Biblical Discernment Ministries, reserve all rights.God’s Immutable Promise to Israel as Revealed in the Book of Hebrews6:13 For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he swear by himself, 6:14 Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee. 6:15 And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise. 6:16 For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife. 6:17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath: 6:18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us: 6:19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; 6:20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.The promise mentioned above is eternally operative, immutable and irrevocable. This immutability concerns not just the “spiritual seed,” but also the “national seed.” Such is the testimony of the prophets as seen in the prediction in Zechariah 10:9–12, made after Israel’s return from the Babylonian exile, and also borne witness to in the Apostle Paul’s discourse in Romans 9–11. In love and honour of my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, whose life is the life complete in itself, I conclude with a portion of an address by Ian R. K. Paisley: HIS GRACE AND POWER TO SAVE AND SUCCOURThe Lord Jesus Christ possesses all the fulness of the Godhead in a body, and He has all wisdom, knowledge, intelligence and understanding to know all the needs of His elect who were joined to Him in the bonds of the everlasting covenant.IN HIS RIGHTEOUSNESSAaron's robe was merely symbolical, and had to be woven; Christ's robe of righteousness was of His own inherent Self, and as He was perfect God and perfect Man in one Person, He had power and ability to fulfil all the claims of God's holy law, and by His life to accomplish the righteousness of God which He imputes to His people. "Jesus, Thy blood and righteousness My beauty are, my glorious dress; Midst flaming worlds, in these array'd, With joy shall I lift up my head. Bold shall I stand in that great day, For who aught to my charge shall lay, While through Thy blood absolved I am, From sin's tremendous curse and shame?"IN HIS ATONEMENTChrist's precious blood purchased the whole "election of grace" (see Acts xx. 28). It brings redemption (Eph. i. 7) and justification (Rom. v. g), and is still efficacious to "wash" and "cleanse" from sin (Rev. i. 5; 1 John i. 7), in making peace (Col. i. 20), to make nigh (Eph. ii. 13), and ever shall be of power, ability and virtue, "Till all the ransomed Church of God Be saved to sin no more."“Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.” (Revelation 1:7)
     
  2. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

    Messages:
    813
    Likes Received:
    3
    (herald;11196)
    The law of the Lord exposes and works death to the old man of sin, and sets the new man free!!!We are told, to die daily to the flesh and it's passions and lusts, so that, we can walk with Him in the Spirit. This is the crucified life, the circumcision of the flesh, which, results in our sanctification and changes us into His image, by His Holy Spirit working from the inside/out.It's all in how you see the law.
    God's law is blessing rather than burden. If we don't give up our own goal then it becomes burden because we will have two goals.my two cents:)
     
  3. herald

    herald New Member

    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    1
    With all due respect, the issue here, is not the SDA, or, Ellen White, but, The Ark of The Covenant and God's commandments. As it has been said, they are, "Commandments," and not, "requests."I keep the Sabbath, because, it was instituted by our Creator: Jesus (John 1:3). He sanctified (separated) and blessed the seventh day at Creation. Then he made it part of His Covenant law. He never abolished, or changed it. For you to say, that, men could over-rule Him and change the day, that, He sanctified, is blasphemous.PRESBYTERIAN: "The Christian Sabbath (Sunday) is not in the Scripture, and was not by the primitive church called the Sabbath." - Dwight's theology, vol.4, p.401.CONGREGATIONAL: "There is no command in the Bible requiring us to observe the first day of the week as the Christian Sabbath."-Fowler, Mode and Subjects of Baptism.LUTHERAN: "The observance of the Lord's day (Sunday) is not founded on any command of God, but on the authority of the church."-"Augsburg Confession of Faith," quoted in Cox's Sabbath Manual, p.287.EPISCOPALIAN: "The festival of Sunday, like all other festivals, was always only a human ordinance, and it was far from the intentions of the apostles to establish a divine command in this respect, far from them and from the early apostolic church, to transfer the laws of the Sabbath to Sunday."-Neander, The History of the Christian Religion and Church, p. 186METHODIST: "It is true there is no positive command for infant baptism...Nor is there any for keeping holy the first day of the week."-Rev. Amos Binney, Theological Compend, pp. 180, 181,, 1902 ed.BAPTIST: Dr. Edward T. Hiscox, author of The Baptist Manual, speaking to a group at a New York Ministers' Conference, Nov 13, 1893, said,"There was and is a commandment to keep holy the Sabbath day, but that day was not Sunday. It will be said, however, and with some show of triumph, that the Sabbath was transferred from the seventh to the first day of the week, with all it's duties, privileges, and sanctions. Earnestly desiring information on this subject, which I have studied for many years, I ask, Wherre can the record of such a transaction be found? Not in the New Testament, absolutely not. There is no Scriptural evidence of the change of the Sabbath institution from the seventh to the first day of the week."Of course," he continues, "I quite well know that Sunday did come into use in early Christian history as a religious day, as we learn from the Christian fathers and other sources. But what a pity that, it comes branded with the mark of Paganism, and christened with the name of the sun god, when adopted and sanctioned by the papal apostasy, and bequeathed as a sacred legacy to Protestantism!To say, that, we, no longer need to obey the Ten Commandments, is grave error. Are you saying, that, we can bow down and worship other gods, take His name in vain, profane His holy day, dishonor our parents, murder, commit adultery, stael, bear false witness, covet and walk with a holy God?The law exposed the old man of sin, and worked death on the cross, so that, the new man might be set free. "What shall we say then? Shall we CONTINUE IN SIN, (the "trangression of the law" 1 John 3:4) that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" Rom 6:1If you continue in sin, or, the "trangression of the law," then, Christ died in vain. He died to set us free from sin.Acts 20:7 in the Greek says, "On one of the sabbaths..." They came together on the Sabbath, Paul preached past sundown, into the first day of the week. What each one does with the Sabbath is between them and the Lord, and, we will, all give an account to Him.Jesus prophesied of the apostasy: "And because iniquity (lawlessness) shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold." Matt 24:12.He, also, said, "If ye love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15."Bless the Lord, O my soul, and all that is within me, bless his holy name. Bless the Lord, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits. Who forgiveth all thine iniquities, who healeth all thy diseases...As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us...To such as keep his covenant, and to those that REMEMBER his commandments to do them." Ps 103
     
  4. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

    Messages:
    813
    Likes Received:
    3
    This Sabbath thingy, is this so necesary to be so legalistic? Isn't keeping the Sabbath all about the rest and remembering God at least once a week? If we are with God, everyday is Lord's day and remembering God in everything we do. I remember God most of the time; that does not mearn I am lazy and resting everyday without working.
     
  5. betchevy

    betchevy New Member

    Messages:
    518
    Likes Received:
    0
    Danyel said earlier:Never was there a greater in the history of the world than that on which Jesus rose from the dead. The Jewish sabbath was despoiled of its joy for the disciples, because it was the day on which Jesus lay in the tomb in which their hopes were also buried. But what a day was that which saw his, resurrection from the grave! No wonder it became the great memorial day of the church. "Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord" (John 20:20).This is not true, Christ rose before dawn on the Sabbath.... See the word of Matthew 28:11:In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. Christ rose on the Sabbath!!!!he also saidActs 20:7. Paul was on his way to Jerusalem, and for some reason stayed seven days in Troas. He Passed a sabbath day in the place, but if he observed it in any way, the fact is not stated. But "upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread," the apostle met with them. Note the association of words: First day of the week, disciples, to break bread. Compare it with any record of Paul's preaching on the sabbath day, as for instance, Acts 17:1, 2--"Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews, and Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days, etc." Synagogue, Jews, Sabbath! First day of the week, Disciples, Breaking of Bread! The old and the new! The Jewish and the Christian! THis is what appens when you know very little of the life and ways of Christ and the Hebrews... A sabbath is a day you do not work because of a feast day... such as Passover, it could be on a Wednesday, but it is still a Sabbath a day of rest..., as is Yom Kippur, Pentacost and First Fruits and Sukkot, all contained Sabbath days even tho some last 8 days, and not all of them are considered as such.Shabbath every week is also considered a feast....I will stop picking apart Danyel's post for there is much in it that I agree with regading the SDA, and I do not wish to be in any way unkind to any.. I am so glad to have all here to speak and fellowship , to learn and to teach...but let me quote again what John says in Revelation 22.:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.so maybe those of you who believe God has done away with the lawwont be tossed into the fire, but you you won't be able to have right to the tree of life... what is this? its Christ... and you may not enter into the gates of the city..... you will be outside...hmmmm unclean?....hmmmm..
     
  6. RND

    RND New Member

    Messages:
    320
    Likes Received:
    4
    (betchevy;11612)
    This is not true, Christ rose before dawn on the Sabbath.... See the word of Matthew 28:11:In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. Christ rose on the Sabbath!!!!
    Which would mean the sun was coming up on sunday morning, just like the verse says. The sabbath is from Friday at even to Saturday at even. Genesis 1.5,8; Luke 23:54Genesis 1:5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.Isn't it interesting how Jesus "rested" in the grave on sabbath before His ressurection?
     
  7. betchevy

    betchevy New Member

    Messages:
    518
    Likes Received:
    0
    NO..were you there RND?.. you don't know when he arose he was not there... he could have been gone for much longer they were the first to get there and he was not there.
     
  8. RND

    RND New Member

    Messages:
    320
    Likes Received:
    4
    (betchevy;11615)
    NO..were you there RND?.. you don't know when he arose he was not there... he could have been gone for much longer they were the first to get there and he was not there.
    What's the scripture say? The sun was coming up, it was the first day of the week....can't be anymore clear than that.Hey, betchevy what day do you go to church? Sunday, Saturday?
     
  9. betchevy

    betchevy New Member

    Messages:
    518
    Likes Received:
    0
    I worship God and study the scriptures every day... I keep the commandments....and REST from servile work on Shabbat... I am Jewish.....and the sun was coming up when the women got there.. Christ was already gone it does not say how long he'd been gone... thats what the word says.
     
  10. RND

    RND New Member

    Messages:
    320
    Likes Received:
    4
    (betchevy;11625)
    I worship God and study the scriptures every day... I keep the commandments....and REST from servile work on Shabbat... I am Jewish.....and the sun was coming up when the women got there.. Christ was already gone it does not say how long he'd been gone... thats what the word says.
    So, as long as He rose from Saturday evening, to the dawn of Sunday He would have risen on Sunday right? So if it was 2:00am on Sunday it stll would have been Sunday and not Sabbath...I think that's the point I was trying to get accross. The verse you quoted doesn't say what you alluded to. It says exactly what it says.Matthew 28:1In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. 2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it. 3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow: 4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men. 5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified. 6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.
     
  11. herald

    herald New Member

    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    1
    Jesus prophesied the Sabbath, still, being kept during the Great Tribulation:But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day: For then shall be Great Tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time,NOR EVER SHALL BE..." Matt 24:20,21. And we are not there, yet.Isaiah prophesied, that,we will keep the Sabbath in His coming Kingdom:""For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain. And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship beofre me, saith the Lord." Isa 66:22,23.The fourth commandment is God's SEAL upon HIs Covenant. So, what is the MARK of the Beast?Daniel 7:25 says, that, one of the marks of The Antichrist is "...he thinks to change times and laws." There was, only, one commandment, dealing with time - the fourth.Rome says, "Of course the Catholic Church claims the change was her act...and the act is a MARK of her ecclesiastical power and authority in religious matters." Father Enright, C.S.S.R., Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons, in answer to a letter regarding the change of the Sabbath.Again, Rome says, "It's (Sunday's change for Satruday) the MARK of our authority to OVER-RULE God's law." Father Enright, C.S.S.R., President of Redemptorist College, History of the Sabbath, p. 802."Sunday is our MARK of authority...The Church is ABOVE THE BIBLE, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact." The Catholic Record, Sept 1, 1923."The Bible says, 'Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day.' The Catholic Church says, 'No! by my divine power I ABOLISH the Sabbath day, and COMMAND YOU to keep holy the first day of the week. And, lo! The entire civilized world BOWS DOWN in reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic Church." Father Enright.(Emphasis added)A mark in the forehead, symbolizes worship. A mark in the hand, symbolizes service.Pope John Paul 11, Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell have called for re-instituting the Sunday, or "Blue Laws." They are, still, on the books in 26 states. In Virginia, the thrid infraction meant death!Does this sound far-fetched? How about a tree in the garden, determining the fate of all mankind?Just as in the garden, it is a question of allegiance:Is our allegiance to the "Mother of harlots," (the apostate Catholic/Protestant religious system, as seen in Revelation 17) and her traditions, or, to the Word of God (made flesh)?We will all have to choose.If He is Lord, obey Him.www.sabbathtruth.com
     
  12. betchevy

    betchevy New Member

    Messages:
    518
    Likes Received:
    0
    RND it does not say when Christ rose, but that the Marys went to the tomb at the time... look at the words not what you have been taught..
     
  13. RND

    RND New Member

    Messages:
    320
    Likes Received:
    4
    (betchevy;11657)
    RND it does not say when Christ rose, but that the Marys went to the tomb at the time... look at the words not what you have been taught..
    Yes, they went to the tomb at sunrise. According to Jewish custom, that time can be figured to be between 6:00am and 9:00am.
     
  14. betchevy

    betchevy New Member

    Messages:
    518
    Likes Received:
    0
    I Ask Everyone But Rnd To Red My Post And His And Notice His Direct Attempt To Just Be Rediculous I Have Said The Same Thing 3 Times But He Still Does Not See What Is Written...i Will Not Repsond To Any More Of His Games.
     
  15. Bamp;#39;midbar

    Bamp;#39;midbar New Member

    Messages:
    164
    Likes Received:
    0
    If perhaps all sides don't agree on which day he rose and which day he died, perhaps this much can be agreed upon:
    1 Cor 15:4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,
     
  16. herald

    herald New Member

    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    1
    Some have said, that, with the Jew, any part of a day is reckoned as a day.If you are, really, interested concerning the three days, you might want to refer to Michael Rood, a Messianic Jew, who teaches on this very subject. He is an excellent teacher, and you can find him on the web.Jesus was in "the belly of the earth" for three days. When did His suffering begin? When did He first shed blood? In the Garden of Gethsemane.
     
  17. Bamp;#39;midbar

    Bamp;#39;midbar New Member

    Messages:
    164
    Likes Received:
    0
    (herald;11736)
    Jesus was in "the belly of the earth" for three days. When did His suffering begin? When did He first shed blood? In the Garden of Gethsemane.
    Yes, I have heard about partial days for reckoning. Your comment about belly of the earth brings to mind that I have always seen something as starting, not with Jesus praying in the garden, but when he gets up and walks over to the disciples and says Behold, the one who betrays me is at hand (Judas). I'm not saying I have any reason other than it always seems like darkness is then, he is in their power when he is taken. Something shifts when I read that. I think of all the other times he slips away and they fail to lay hands on him, because it wasn't time.
     
  18. betchevy

    betchevy New Member

    Messages:
    518
    Likes Received:
    0
    the timing according to Michael Rood coresponds to the timing of the slaying of the lambs for Passover, the time of the taking of them to the temple to be slain by the priests and the blood kept for the presentation on the alter..So Christ is dying at the same time the sheep are being slain... these sheep btw we taken into the home and kept like you would a puppy.. they are the cuest things you ever saw and then you have to slay this cute baby, raoast and eat it.. its a picture of God sending his beloved to be slain..I am so gald that Yahshua ended this for us.... He became our Passover... and His blood our salvation.
     
Loading...