The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

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L.A.M.B.

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In His name (Christ) is preached the forgiveness of sins
But unless you believe that as Christ says, "I AM HE" you will die in your sins unforgiven. That really begs that age old question, Who is Jesus Christ!

Atonement and forgiveness go hand in hand, no atonement of sins = no forgiveness, is also true the other way, not forgiven sins = no atonement of sins.
Leviticus 4,
32 ‘If he brings a lamb as his sin offering, he shall bring a female without blemish. 33 Then he shall lay his hand on the head of the sin offering, and kill it as a sin offering at the place where they kill the burnt offering. 34 The priest shall take some of the blood of the sin offering with his finger, put it on the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and pour all the remaining blood at the base of the altar. 35 He shall remove all its fat, as the fat of the lamb is removed from the sacrifice of the peace offering. Then the priest shall burn it on the altar, according to the offerings made by fire to the Lord.

So the priest shall make atonement for his sin that he has committed, and it shall be forgiven him.

Jesus is OUR GREAT HIGH PRIEST, He is not the Great High Priest of unbelievers
Footnotes





I agree in part with what you are saying.
He died for all that would receive him,that is without number but it is possible by ALL!

He did not say ok I'm saving 500 million then it's cut off time and the next gazillion can go to hell.
He offered the sacrifice willingly at the time he died on the cross. Names were not printed there, but at the receiving of salvation names ARE written down in the book of life from which ALL will be judged.

As ppl claim there IS NOT SUCH THING AS PREDESTINED,ELECT BY HIS CHOICE,but he died for all that ALL might be saved! It is about believing, receiving, and accepting!
 
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L.A.M.B.

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Couldn't sell Calvinism on c.c huh?

Won't sell here either.

May the Lord open the eyes of your understanding,and light your way in the Spirit that the TRUTH of his word becomes your truth @brightfame52 .
 

ChristisGod

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Rom 5:11

11And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

The Atonement of Christ has reconciled the elect world to God. It secured and ensured for it [ the elect world] every spiritual blessing needed to live unto God and for His Glory through Jesus Christ.

Even before the elect are born into this world as sinners, they have already [by the blood of Christ] been reconciled to God, it will now be a matter of time for it to be manifested.

The atonement accomplished the complete salvation for all whom it was offered for, that is the death of Christ. It provides them Faith, repentance, sanctification, redemption, and every needful spiritual blessing to convert them to God, and remain secured forever.

1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. niv

1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.kjv
 
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brightfame52

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1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. niv

1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.kjv
Did you understand the post ?
 

ChristisGod

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Did you understand the post ?
Yes and I understand the atonement which is why I posted 1 John 2:2. There are others that would verify its not just for the elect. The provision is made for all ( sufficient ) and appropriated by some ( efficient ).
 
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Scott Downey

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Yes and I understand the atonement which is why I posted 1 John 2:2. There are others that would verify its not just for the elect. The provision is made for all ( sufficient ) and appropriated by some ( efficient ).
It is not a propitiation though unless the sins are forgiven.
So it is not actualized. At most you can say it is a potential propitiation of their sins.
HE is the propitiation for all sins of all people, but that does not mean Christ died for those who do not believe, because His death created an actual propitiation for those who believe alone.

Christ's death did not open a potential pathway to the Father in heaven to live there, he made an actual path for those who believe in Christ.
 
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ChristisGod

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It is not a propitiation though unless the sins are forgiven.
So it is not actualized. At most you can say it is a potential propitiation of their sins.
HE is the propitiation for all sins of all people, but that does not mean Christ died for those who do not believe, because His death created an actual propitiation for those who believe alone.

Christ's death did not open a potential pathway to the Father in heaven to live there, he made an actual path for those who believe in Christ.
Jesus died for all sins that is what propitiation/atonement means.

Atonement- katallagé καταλλαγή -reconciliation, restoration to favor. Strongs 2643.

Thayers: adjustment of a difference, reconciliation, restoration to favor, (from Aeschylus on); in the N. T., of the restoration of the favor of God to sinners that repent and put their trust in the expiatory death of Christ: 2 Corinthians 5:18f; with the genitive of the one received into favor, τοῦ κόσμου (opposed to ἀποβολή), Romans 11:15; καταλλαγήν ἐλάβομεν, we received the blessing of the recovered favor of God, Romans 5:11; with the genitive of him whose favor is recovered, 2 Macc. 5:20. (Cf. Trench, § lxxvii.)

Propitiation- the turning away of God's anger/wrath

Expiation- the covering for our sins


Through expiation—the work of Christ on the cross for us—the sin of all those who would ever believe in Christ was canceled. That cancellation is eternal in its consequence, even though sin is still present in the temporal sense. In other words, believers are delivered from the penalty and power of sin, but not the presence of it. Justification is the term for being delivered from the penalty of sin. This is a one-time act wherein the sinner is justified and made holy and righteous in the eyes of God, who exchanged our sinful natures for the righteousness of Christ at the cross (2 Corinthians 5:21). Sanctification is the ongoing process whereby believers are delivered from the power of sin in their lives and are enabled by the new nature to resist and turn away from it. Glorification is when we are removed from the very presence of sin, which will only occur once we leave this world and are in heaven. All these processes—justification, sanctification, and glorification—are made possible through the expiation or cancellation of sin. (gotquestions.org)


Propitiation vs. Expiation- The New Testament usage of hilaskomai and hilasmos, consistent with its precedent usage in the Greek Old Testament, speaks consistently of God’s atoning action in Christ directed toward sin on behalf of sinners, not human action directed toward God to satisfy God. The criterion for interpretation, Stott has said, “is whether the object of the atoning action is God or man.” “Propitiation” indicates an action by humans directed toward God, and “expiation” indicates an action by God toward sin and sinners. According to Stott's criterion, these texts favor "expiation" over “propitiation.” Given the choice of translating hilastērion either “propitiation” or “expiation,” therefore, “expiation” is preferable based on the textual evidence of both the New Testament and the Greek Old Testament. James Dunn summarizes well the case for preferring “expiation” to “propitiation” as a translation for hilastērion: Darrin W. Snyder Belousek, Atonement, Justice, and Peace: The Message of the Cross and the Mission of the Church (Grand Rapids, MI; Cambridge, U.K.: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 2012), 247–252.
 
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Scott Downey

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Only for the the redeemed, only they walk that path, it is not a potential path, after you believe you don't potentially have eternal life, you have it immediately. And only the redeemed will continue to believe. It is never a potential redemption. Only the holy walk on this highway.
8 A highway shall be there, and a road,
And it shall be called the Highway of Holiness.
The unclean shall not pass over it,
But it shall be for others.



Isaiah 35
New King James Version


The Future Glory of Zion
1 The wilderness and the wasteland shall be glad for them,
And the desert shall rejoice and blossom as the rose;
2 It shall blossom abundantly and rejoice,
Even with joy and singing.
The glory of Lebanon shall be given to it,
The excellence of Carmel and Sharon.
They shall see the glory of the Lord,
The excellency of our God.

3 Strengthen the weak hands,
And make firm the feeble knees.
4 Say to those who are fearful-hearted,
“Be strong, do not fear!
Behold, your God will come with vengeance,
With the recompense of God;
He will come and save you.”

5 Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened,
And the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped.
6 Then the lame shall leap like a deer,
And the tongue of the dumb sing.
For waters shall burst forth in the wilderness,
And streams in the desert.
7 The parched ground shall become a pool,
And the thirsty land springs of water;
In the habitation of jackals, where each lay,
There shall be grass with reeds and rushes.

8 A highway shall be there, and a road,
And it shall be called the Highway of Holiness.
The unclean shall not pass over it,
But it shall be for others.
Whoever walks the road, although a fool,
Shall not go astray.
9 No lion shall be there,
Nor shall any ravenous beast go up on it;
It shall not be found there.
But the redeemed shall walk there,

10 And the ransomed of the Lord shall return,
And come to Zion with singing,
With everlasting joy on their heads.
They shall obtain joy and gladness,
And sorrow and sighing shall flee away.
 

TahitiRun

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....HE is the propitiation for all sins of all people, but that does not mean Christ died for those who do not believe.....
Of course it does. God has concluded all in unbelief so that He will have mercy upon all:

Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Rom 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

And, here:

Rom 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
Rom 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar;
 

ChristisGod

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PROPITIATION

The value of Christ’s death as a vindication of God’s righteousness is indicated by the word propitiation. Here we enter upon an intricate aspect of the doctrine of the Atonement. The word “propitiation” appears in the English Bible three times. The Apostle John uses it twice in his First Epistle. Speaking of Jesus Christ, he writes,

He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world (I John 2:2).

And again,

Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins (I John 4:10).

The Greek word here is “hilasmos,” and means “that which propitiates.” It signifies expiation. Numbers 5:8 speaks of “the ram of atonement” (propitiation), and again in Psalm 130:4, “There is forgiveness (propitiation) with Thee.” Here is the sole ground upon which God shows mercy to guilty sinners. Christ alone, through the shedding of His Blood in His sacrificial and substitutionary Death on the Cross, is the Propitiation, that which expiates or propitiates. He extinguishes the guilt of the sinner by suffering the penalty for sin. Notice that it does not say that His death was the propitiation, but that He himself is the Propitiation. It is the Person of our Lord which gives efficacy to His atoning work.

In Romans 3:25 the Apostle Paul speaks of Christ,

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His Blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forebearance of God.

Here the Greek word is not “hilasmos,” meaning “that which propitiates,” but “hilasterion,” which means, “the place of propitiation.” The word “hilasterion” is used in Hebrews 9:5, where we read: “And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercy seat (hilasterion, or the place of propitiation).”

“Propitiation” means “mercy seat” in Hebrews 9:5, and we must go back to the Old Testament to see what the mercy seat was typically to the Israelite. The mercy seat was the golden lid or the Ark of the Covenant in the Holy of Holies. Once a year, on the Day of Atonement, the high priest sprinkled the sacrificial blood of an innocent victim to atone for the broken Law. The tables of stone on which were written the holy Law were kept in the Ark. The sprinkled blood covered the broken Law and made possible a meeting place between God and the sinner (Exodus 25:21-22; Leviticus 16:2, 13-14). The mercy seat was made of pure gold (Exodus 25:17), and covered the whole Ark.

Jesus Christ, the pure Son of God, is the sinner’s Mercy Seat, and His Blood covers all our sin. According to Scripture, therefore, the mercy seat in the Tabernacle was a type of our Lord Jesus Christ. Our Lord fulfilled the type and symbol perfectly. After His death and burial He arose from the grave, ascended into Heaven, and on the ground of His shed Blood made possible a meeting place where the sinner could come to God.

Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by His own Blood He entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us (Hebrews 9:12).

Christ Himself is the Mercy Seat sprinkled with His own precious Blood.

In our Lord’s propitiatory work there is no thought of God placating Himself or of appeasing His own anger. God’s feeling toward mankind has never changed. There never was a time in man’s history when God did not love him. God always has desired to bless man with salvation and its accompanying peace and joy, but the sin of man placed an obstacle in God’s way, separating the sinner from Himself. It is true that God hates sin and will always hate sin. The Death of Jesus Christ did in no wise change God’s view of sin.

The Death of Christ was a purely legal operation. The Judge took upon Himself the penalty so that the judgment seat becomes the mercy seat. The prayer of the publican, “God be merciful to me a sinner” (Luke 18:13), is literally, “God be propitious to me a sinner.” This passage is sometimes misunderstood and misused. This man stood on Old Testament ground before the Death of Christ, and he was actually asking God to offer that one Sacrifice for sin which would put that sin away and thus provide a ground upon which a holy and righteous God could bless him with salvation. Remember, he was not asking God to be generous or lenient with him. He was merely asking God to be propitious, and in making such a request he was justified.

Now we can see plainly that such a prayer need not be uttered today. God has been propitious in Christ. The eternal Son became our Mercy Seat, and to ask God to do what He already has done would be rejecting the Death of Christ. God cannot be lenient with sin, and sinners need not beg mercy from God. God was merciful when He provided for man the Saviour, and man is saved when he believes in and receives the Lord Jesus Christ. God has paid the penalty for sin, and on that basis His mercy is extended to you today.

For Thou, Lord, art good, and ready to forgive; and plenteous in mercy unto all them that call upon Thee (Psalm 86:5).

. . . With the Lord there is mercy, and with Him is plenteous redemption (Psalm 130:7).The Atonement of Christ | Bible.org
 

TahitiRun

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Yes to both :)
BF52's posts are all over christian forums, and have been for about 15 to 20 years or so, but under different aliases and pseudonyms. He's not really able to engage in a meaningful discussion about what he posts. I'm not sure what to make of it all :confused: :) He's posts are like drive by shootings...lol He unloads the clip and takes off with an exclamation point at the end !
 
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ChristisGod

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BF52's posts are all over christian forums, and have been for about 15 to 20 years or so, but under different aliases and pseudonyms. He's not really able to engage in a meaningful discussion about what he posts. I'm not sure what to make of it all :confused: :) He's posts are like drive by shootings...lol He unloads the clip and takes off with an exclamation point at the end !
Yes I'm aware of that lol. I've had my run ins over the years. He no longer posts on another forum as I challenged him every day with scripture instead of the doctrines of hyper-calvinism. Needless to say its been almost a year since I've seen him on the other forum with his side kick.

But thank you for the heads up !
 

brightfame52

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It delivered us from wrath !

1 Thess 1:10

10And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

Who is Paul speaking of here ? Lets look at vs 4-5

4Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

5For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake

He is writing to the Election of Grace. Those that Christ died for and rose again, and by that, He delivered God's Elect from the Wrath to come !

The wrath here is that vindicative punishment that the wicked, unbelievers will receive as Per Matt 25:46

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

2 Thess 1:8

In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Matt 25:41

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

We know Christ could not have died for those whom He will yet say these words unto, for He calls them cursed !

Now all for whom Christ did die have been redeemed from the curse of the Law, Christ being made a curse in their room and stead Gal 3:13

13Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

The word for is the prep huper and means:

in behalf of, for the sake of

over, beyond, more than

more, beyond, over

So , for all those He died, God made Him a curse in behalf of them ! And this released them from the curse of the Law. Now the strength of sin being the law, no sin can they ever be condemned for ! He being made a curse for them, was their deliverance, their salvation from the wrath to come 1 Thess 5:9


9For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Rom 5:9

Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
 

brightfame52

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Yes and I understand the atonement which is why I posted 1 John 2:2. There are others that would verify its not just for the elect. The provision is made for all ( sufficient ) and appropriated by some ( efficient ).
Post 199 I go into detail about propitiation.
 

brightfame52

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Yes and I understand the atonement which is why I posted 1 John 2:2. There are others that would verify its not just for the elect. The provision is made for all ( sufficient ) and appropriated by some ( efficient ).
I went into detail post 199 about propitiation, its very misunderstood
 

brightfame52

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It accomplished believers in Himself !

The Death of Christ, it accomplished for all those He died for, for them to become believers in Him, yes that was one of God's Purposes behind it. Jn 3:14-17

14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

False teachers have made believing on Christ in these scriptures something man must do or perform as a condition to gain eternal life which is a lie, but believing on Christ is the purposed result and effect of the Death of Christ for all He died for and are believing [present tense] His death delivers them He died for from unbelief. The Holy Spirit applies the merits of Christ death [give life]upon all He died for, convincing them of sin [an effect of new birth] because by nature, they believe not on Him Jn 16:8-9

8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9Of sin, because they believe not on me;
 

brightfame52

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Gal 6:14 Crucified to the world !

Gal 6:14

14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

Paul makes a Christ Glorifying statement here about the Cross of Christ, One of it's many accomplishments and effects to them He died for. He states "by whom " meaning Christ, His Work, the world is crucified unto me, and I have been crucified unto the world. Notice that this was not by His Freewill, or His act of believing and so forth, but by a Person, Christ and His Cross accomplishment and effect for him

Paul boasted about the powerful effects of Christ crucified, something that is non existent in our day of Apostasy !

Paul is saying that the entire world system in all its Glory, but in opposition to God, is dead or destroyed in it's power to attract him; it has no influence or power over Paul, no appeal to him .And I to the world. Paul is similarly dead to the desires and attractions of the world, for he serves Christ as his new Master ESV Note on Gal 6:14

This is largely due to the God Given Faith each person that Christ died for will receive by from the Holy Spirit at New Birth and this is overcoming Faith of the world 1 Jn 5:4

For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

This Faith is an effect of the Cross to all whom Christ died and imparts His Victory to !
 

brightfame52

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More on Gal 6:14 What do you Glory in ?

Gal 6:14

14But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

The word Glory here is the greek word kauchaomai:

to glory (whether with reason or without)

2) to glory on account of a thing

3) to glory in a thing

It also is translated boast 2 Cor 7:14 or rejoice Phil 3:3

What do you and i boast in today ? How many of us truly boast or Glory in the Cross of Jesus Christ, His Person and Work and it's saving effects which are everlasting !

What I have observed of many of us is that we Glory not in The Person and Work of Christ and His Saving accomplishments for those He died, but in the flesh. Some of us by the teaching of the freewill of man, others by our ethnicity, particularly ethnic jews. Yes ethnicity is of the flesh, and Paul stated this about having confidence in the flesh Phil 3:3-6

3For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

4Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless

Notice what Paul calls confidence and trust in the flesh in vs 5

#1 Circumcised the eighth day [flesh]

#2 Being of the Tribe of Benjamin [flesh]

#3 Of the people of Israel [flesh see Rom 9:8]

#4 being a hebrew of Hebrews [flesh]

#5 being a pharisee [flesh]

Remember what Jesus told a well established pharisee of highest rank Jn 3:6

6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

#6 Religious zeal in vs 6 all religious zeal apart from a Spiritual Revelation of the Gospel is of the flesh !

#7 Good reputation for religion before men, being blameless before men in the sight of men without Gospel revelation is [the flesh]

Paul thought being circumcised as a full blooded jew, of the tribe of Benjamin, was a gain to him, the word gain is the greek word kerdos
and means advantage.


He thought being an ethnic jew gave him advantage before God over other people who were not jewish. He thought it gave him advantage in having a relationship with God and salvation !

Many today think by being a ethnic jew that its an advantage, that it ensures special favor with God, even Salvation favor, this is confidence in the flesh, boasting in the flesh, no way around it !

That word confidence as confidence in the flesh Phil 3:3 also means trust, trusting in the flesh.

Like the Pharisee Lk 18:9, this Pharisee would have trusted in the same things Paul did in Phil 3:5-6 and thats nothing more than trusting in ourselves, idolatry !

What is our Glory today ?
 
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