The Bible doesn't instruct to pray to Jesus

[Runningman]

but true prayer is worship

I found something I agree with you about. So why does no one in the Bible ever teach others to pray to Jesus or worship Jesus? See what I am getting at? It's never directly taught. It would very strange, if Jesus were God, that the book central to the Christian faith be deafeningly silent on the matter of worshipping and praying to Jesus. Why do you think that is so?

 

[Anchorite]

So why does no one in the Bible ever teach others to pray to Jesus or worship Jesus? See what I am getting at? It's never directly taught. It would very strange, if Jesus were God, that the book central to the Christian faith be deafeningly silent on the matter of worshipping and praying to Jesus. Why do you think that is so?

The Bible is not “deafeningly silent” on worshiping and praying to Jesus.

You simply dismiss the scriptures that speak on these topics.

Your religious sect, which you are secretive about, does not believe Jesus is God.

This is why you quarrel about worshiping and praying to Jesus, who said “The Father and I are one” (John 10:30).

 

[Runningman]

The Bible is not “deafeningly silent” on worshiping and praying to Jesus.

You simply dismiss the scriptures that speak on these topics.

Your religious sect, which you are secretive about, does not believe Jesus is God.

This is why you quarrel about worshiping and praying to Jesus, who said “The Father and I are one” (John 10:30).

In Matthew 6:9, Jesus said pray προσεύχεσθε (proseuchesthe) like this: "Our Father in heaven..."

Yet no one ever said give προσεύχεσθε (proseuchesthe) to Jesus.

John 4:23 says "the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth."

But no one ever says the true worshippers will worship Jesus nor do they ever say worship Jesus in spirit in truth in the whole Bible.

I maintain the Bible is deafeningly silent on praying to and worshipping Jesus.

So why does the Bible never explicitly say to pray to Jesus and why does it not define a true worshipper who worships in spirit and truth as someone who worships Jesus?

 

[BreadOfLife]

In this usage you are referring to from Meriam-Webster, pray is essentially equivalent to "please", "I beg you," or "I entreat you," but it does not refer to an act of religious prayer. That kind of talking, i.e., "I pray you...", "Pray be careful...", "Pray tell me..." etc is not the kind of "pray" we're talking about here. Thanks for the reply, please let me know if you find any examples of praying to Jesus in the Bible.

Umm, I already DID . . . .

Paul prayed to the Son (Jesus):
2 Cor. 12:8-9
Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me.But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.”


"Give is this day our daily bread . . ."
"Forgive us our trespasses . . ."
"Lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil . . ."

How is this ANY diffeerent froom the pleading that Paul did with Jesus??

 

[BreadOfLife]

prime example . as if me asking a muslim for a glass of water is praying to him .
THE RCC got folks duped .

As I educated you in my earlier post - a PLEA ore REQUEST is, in fact, PRAYER.
It's not WORHIP - but neither is all prayer to God. . . .

I suggest you stop trying to interpret Scripture until you learn more about languages . . .

 

[David in NJ]

Not addressed to Christians.

Addressed to people who do not know the the WAY the TRUTH and the LIFE
You know, people who cannot accept who CHRIST actually IS.
Thus the book of 'Hebrews'

 

[BreadOfLife]

all the RCC did was take examples o what one does DURING prayer to GOD
then use such examples to justify why they pray to saints , to mary and etc
and act like ITS not abomination to do such a thing .
Anyone can do that .
but true prayer is worship . asking a liv ing person for a request is not even the same as praying to them .
Praying to someone or something OTHER than GOD is abomiantion , is an act of worship .

WRONG again . . .

"True" prayer is a subjective term. Asking your friend for a favor may NOT be worship in the intransitive verbal sense - it is absolutely true prayer in the transitive verbal sense.

Again - your obsessive hatred for Catholics has clouded your judgement . . .

 

[Runningman]

Umm, I already DID . . . .

Paul prayed to the Son (Jesus):
2 Cor. 12:8-9
Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me.But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.”


"Give is this day our daily bread . . ."
"Forgive us our trespasses . . ."
"Lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil . . ."

How is this ANY diffeerent froom the pleading that Paul did with Jesus??

The Lord in this passage is not explicitly identified as Jesus. Addressing Jesus is never how Paul prayed. The following verses all depict Paul addressing God the Father. Ephesians 3:14–21, Ephesians 1:16–17, Philippians 1:3–11, Colossians 1:3–12, Romans 1:8–10, Romans 15:5–6, Romans 15:13, 2 Corinthians 13:7, 1 Thessalonians 3:11–13, 1 Thessalonians 5:23, 2 Thessalonians 1:11–12, and Philemon 4–6.

With the Father also being called Lord in the Bible, the precedent is that the Lord 2 Cor. 12:8-9 is the Father.

This isn't easy is it? So far I have seen theories and arguments, but no clear scripture. Please let me know if you find any examples of praying to Jesus in the Bible.

 

[Runningman]

Addressed to people who do not know the the WAY the TRUTH and the LIFE
You know, people who cannot accept who CHRIST actually IS.
Thus the book of 'Hebrews'

I mean, worshipping Jesus in context of Hebrews 1:6 is not an address or instruction to Christians to worship Jesus, but there is plenty of evidence the book of Hebrews was written to Jewish Christians, meaning Hebrews was written to people who already knew who Christ is.

 

[David in NJ]

I mean, worshipping Jesus in context of Hebrews 1:6 is not an address or instruction to Christians to worship Jesus, but there is plenty of evidence the book of Hebrews was written to Jewish Christians, meaning Hebrews was written to people who already knew who Christ is.

Hebrews was written to:
a.) The Church = Jew & Gentile in Christ
b.) Jewish people who are not saved
c.) Gentiles who are not saved or confused by religion

​

 

[Runningman]

Hebrews was written to:
a.) The Church = Jew & Gentile in Christ
b.) Jewish people who are not saved
c.) Gentiles who are not saved or confused by religion

​

Yeah I was gonna say there is good evidence it was actually a mixed audience. So I agree with it when you put it that way.

 

[David in NJ]

Yeah I was gonna say there is good evidence it was actually a mixed audience. So I agree with it when you put it that way.

The worship of JESUS is in Hebrews = from beginning to end.

1:3 - The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of His nature, upholding all things by His powerful word.

1:5 - For to which of the angels did God ever say:
“You are My Son; today I have become Your Father”?
Or again: “I will be His Father, and He will be My Son”?

1:6 - And again, when God brings His firstborn into the world, He says: “Let all God’s angels worship Him.”

But about the Son He says:

“Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever,
and justice is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9You have loved righteousness
and hated wickedness;
therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
above Your companions with the oil of joy.”

 

[Justified]

Interestingly, there are variant manuscripts regarding the John 14:14 version you used. There is a version that says "if you ask me for anything" and there is a version that says "if you ask for anything." Now, I will say that the earliest surviving manuscripts include "me" but the fact that this is one of those verses where someone either added or removed a word from the original manuscript is suspicious. I find it out of step with Jesus' other teachings where he said to ask the Father instead (John 15:16, John 16:23, John 16:26) and to pray to the Father (Matthew 6:6,9) and everyone else in the New Testament saying ask the Father (Ephesians 3:14-16, Ephesians 5:20, Colossians 1:3, Colossians 3:17)

Then out of the blue, one contested verse with a manuscript variant, that says "Ask me" in John 14:14 appears. Unlikely to be an original, especially with the existence of John 16:23 where Jesus said "ask me nothing, ask the Father."

But let's assume for the sake of discussion that John 14:14 is the original and says "Ask me for anything." That's fine. The context is just while they were still there in Israel. Jesus often would take the disciples requests and prayers and ask his God and Father for things on their behalf. Jesus is the kind of guy you want praying for you. His prayers are gonna get heard and answered. It doesn't override the only instruction to pray to the Father... unless you believe Jesus is the Father?

Of course Jesus isn’t the Father. My original point was that your claim, “John 16:23,24 supersedes John 14:13,14 in the biblical timeline,” in no way whatsoever “proves that there are no instructions to pray to Jesus in the Bible.”

If “me” is in the text, Jesus is simply saying that we can ask things of both him and the Father.

No, but they said similar things.

Perhaps some similar things, but Jesus said some vastly different things. Jesus claimed to be the Christ, the Son of God, and the Son of Man. He claimed to have come from heaven (John 3:13; 6:33-33, 38, 51; 8:23; 16:28), to have timeless existence (John 8:58;17:5, 24), and to be omnipresent (Matt. 18:20).

All these things, and more, point to Jesus being truly God just as he is truly man. So, as God he is worthy of our worship, as we see a few times in NT, and we can pray to him.

Jesus' status Lord of the church and savior, the messiah, are separate from that. Let's say Jesus told his disciples to ask him for things? Why did Jesus later turn and say "Don't ask me for anything, ask the Father" in John 16:23?

What Jesus didn’t say was, “Don’t ask me for anything.”

Jhn 16:23 In that day you will ask nothing of me. Truly, truly, I say to you, whatever you ask of the Father in my name, he will give it to you.

First, Jesus is speaking of a specific time—“In that day.” It certainly refers to after his resurrection but also likely to after his ascension (16:16-22). Second, in that day, they “will ask nothing.” That is very different from telling them to not ask him for anything. He is essentially saying that they will not need to ask him.

Also, if it is true that Jesus had said to ask him and now says to ask the Father, there is no problem. It would simply mean we can ask both of them for things.

 

[David Lamb]

In Matthew 6:9, Jesus said pray προσεύχεσθε (proseuchesthe) like this: "Our Father in heaven..."

Yet no one ever said give προσεύχεσθε (proseuchesthe) to Jesus.

John 4:23 says "the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth."

But no one ever says the true worshippers will worship Jesus nor do they ever say worship Jesus in spirit in truth in the whole Bible.

I maintain the Bible is deafeningly silent on praying to and worshipping Jesus.

So why does the Bible never explicitly say to pray to Jesus and why does it not define a true worshipper who worships in spirit and truth as someone who worships Jesus?

Worshipping Jesus? How about Thomas? Remember how he had refused at first to believe that Jesus had risen from the dead. When he met the risen Saviour, we read:

(Joh 20:28 NKJV) And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

We read of Stephen praying for Jesus to receive his spirit:

(Act 7:59) And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."

 

[BreadOfLife]

That's precisely the response I expected from you . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

The Lord in this passage is not explicitly identified as Jesus. Addressing Jesus is never how Paul prayed. The following verses all depict Paul addressing God the Father. Ephesians 3:14–21, Ephesians 1:16–17, Philippians 1:3–11, Colossians 1:3–12, Romans 1:8–10, Romans 15:5–6, Romans 15:13, 2 Corinthians 13:7, 1 Thessalonians 3:11–13, 1 Thessalonians 5:23, 2 Thessalonians 1:11–12, and Philemon 4–6.

With the Father also being called Lord in the Bible, the precedent is that the Lord 2 Cor. 12:8-9 is the Father.

This isn't easy is it? So far I have seen theories and arguments, but no clear scripture. Please let me know if you find any examples of praying to Jesus in the Bible.

As I stated before – I already did give you an example (2 Cor. 12:8-9).
And it was Paul who declared that “Jesus Christ is LORD” (Phi. 2:10-11).

Another explicit example is when Stephen was being martyred. His final prayer was to Jesus:
"Lord Jesus, receive my spirit,", followed immediately by by, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them" (Acts 7:59.)

In 1 Cor., Paul prays to Jesus:
1 Cor. 16:22
If anyone does not love the Lord, let that person be cursed! Come, Lord!

Paul is PRAYING for His return.
Again – YOUR problem is that you don’t understand the Scriptures.

2 Pet. 3:16
“… as he does in all his (Paul’s) letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.

 

[JimKnox]

If I may comment on this, the word "God" is missing from the Greek text of that verse. The version you provided is not accurate.

Which (greek) text?
That comment (the Greek text) is disingenuous.
Why?
I'm glad you asked.
Everybody knows (or should know by now, since the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls in 1947) that there is no such thing as "the Greek text".

 

[JimKnox]

YESHUA Is His name

Matthew wrote in Greek, so he records the Greek form (Iēsous), but Joseph and Mary would not have spoken Greek to name their son. They were Jews living in Nazareth, so the name they actually used would have been the Hebrew/Aramaic form, Yeshua.

historians across a wide range of backgrounds, including Christian, Jewish, and secular scholars, overwhelmingly agree that Yeshua was the name by which Jesus was known during His earthly life.

I have researched This in the past and it is YESHUA most certainly

Hogwash.

 

[rockytopva]

The Apostles going directly to Jesus...

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. - Acts 2:38

Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk. - Acts 3:6

Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour. - Acts 16:18

And the case where going directly to Jesus was tried by those not saved...

11 And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul:
12 So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.
13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.
14 And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.
15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?
16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.
17 And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also dwelling at Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified. - Acts 19

 

[rockytopva]

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