The Bible doesn't instruct to pray to Jesus

[Wrangler]

What you call idolatry- I call fellowship, devotion and faith in Jesus. It's a pity you don't have that kind of fellowship.

Fellowship. Instruction of whom to pray. Not the same.

 

[David in NJ]

What you call idolatry- I call fellowship, devotion and faith in Jesus. It's a pity you don't have that kind of fellowship. So tell me, do you also shun Him like the Jw's do, and just add His name like a blip at the end of a prayer and call that a relationship? ARE ANGELS IDOLATORS?

Runningman fully understands that even the angels worship Jesus Christ- and somehow as a human, being lower than angels- Jesus isn't mighty enough for his worship. and You agree with that.?. He said that instruction was not for CHRISTIANS? LOL Tell me WHY ARE ANGELS
INSTRUCTED TO WORSHIP JESUS? ARE ANGELS IDOLATORS?
what is there to say other than- you simply do not want to worship the Lord and that's an excuse.

pretty simple when one uses their grey blob

 

[Wrangler]

He said that instruction was not for CHRISTIANS? LOL Tell me WHY ARE ANGELS
INSTRUCTED TO WORSHIP JESUS? ARE ANGELS IDOLATORS?

Strawman. Worship. Instruction on who to pray. Not the same thing. Any verse say Angels should pray to Jesus?

you simply do not want to worship the Lord and that's an excuse.

No excuse necessary if there is not a verse instructing us to worship Jesus. Is there such an instructional verse?

 

[David in NJ]

Strawman. Worship. Instruction on who to pray. Not the same thing. Any verse say Angels should pray to Jesus?



No excuse necessary if there is not a verse instructing us to worship Jesus. Is there such an instructional verse?

What would angels pray for???

 

[LoveYeshua]

Even you call Him Jesus.

As it was pointed out in this thread I think, some people apparently do not know who Yeshua is. For clarity I will use therefore Jesus.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Can it be argued that Jesus was prayed to in the Bible?

Acts 7:59-60
While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, ‘Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.’ Then he fell on his knees and cried out, ‘Lord, do not hold this sin against them.’ When he had said this, he fell asleep

Stephen prayed directly to Jesus. Reckon Jesus refused to allow Stephen into the Kingdom?

Romans 10:13
For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved

One calls upon the Name of Jesus to be born again, not to God or the Father

Acts 4:12
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved

One cannot be born again without calling upon JESUS

After we are saved, yes all formal prayer should be to the Father in Jesus Name.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Albert Barnes' Notes says:

I'll stick with God's Word taught by THE Teacher the Holy Spirit.

Reading and studying what other men thought God said rather than being led by the Holy Spirit in to Truth (God's Word) is how and why so many are following false doctrine.

As it was point out in this thread I think, some people apparently do not know who Yeshua is. For clarity I will use therefore Jesus.

One does not and cannot impress the Lord or get closer to Him than others by using Jesus' hebrew name.

That's one of the false teachings from the so called hebrew roots movement which leads people to try and live under the law of Moses (old covenant) rather than the Law of Christ (New Covenant)

They claim God loves people more if they thrown in a few hebrew words and follow some OT law.

 

[Justified]

I'll stick with God's Word taught by THE Teacher the Holy Spirit.

Reading and studying what other men thought God said rather than being led by the Holy Spirit in to Truth (God's Word) is how and why so many are following false doctrine.

You do realize that this is spiritual pride, right? What you're saying is that you alone are led by the Holy Spirit and have the truth, and so no one else can be trusted in what they teach, even though God gifts some to teach.

What does the Holy Spirit teach you about "Everlasting Father" in Isa. 9:6?

 

[Dan Clarkston]

You do realize that this is spiritual pride, right?

Yeah, satan has tried to talk me in to that before.

Feel free to follow all the other dead fish as they float down stream if you'd like.

Jesus sent me the Holy Spirit, Who is THE Teacher and He is so much more capable to bring Truth to me than the so called reformed (or catholic) so called "teachers" who keep teaching things Jesus and His Apostles did not teach in God's Word.

So fake claim of "you're in pride if you don't believe as I tell you to believe" promptly ignored and laughed at.

I have decades of experience learning how to not fall in to satan's traps, and this is yet another failed and feeble attempt. Quite comical actually.

no one else can be trusted in what they teach, even though God gifts some to teach.

Yes they can teach... and I will go to God's Word in prayer searching the scripture to see if what they are teaching is in agreement with the Lord or not.

 

[Justified]

Yeah, satan has tried to talk me in to that before.

Feel free to follow all the other dead fish as they float down stream if you'd like.

Jesus sent me the Holy Spirit, Who is THE Teacher and He is so much more capable to bring Truth to me than the so called reformed (or catholic) so called "teachers" who keep teaching things Jesus and His Apostles did not teach in God's Word.

So fake claim of "you're in pride if you don't believe as I tell you to believe" promptly ignored and laughed at.

I have decades of experience learning how to not fall in to satan's traps, and this is yet another failed and feeble attempt. Quite comical actually.

Case in point.

Yes they can teach... and I will go to God's Word in prayer searching the scripture to see if what they are teaching is in agreement with the Lord or not.

And did you do that this time? It sure doesn't seem so, as you didn't even answer my question nor actually address what was stated in the previous post you responded to.

 

[PS95]

Strawman. Worship. Instruction on who to pray. Not the same thing. Any verse say Angels should pray to Jesus?

You dingbat lol- it's not a strawman at all. MY convo with Runningman was about worship. He said it's only for angels and not for Christians to worship Jesus.

No excuse necessary if there is not a verse instructing us to worship Jesus. Is there such an instructional verse?

AS @David in NJ SAID USE YOUR GREY BLOB FOR ONCE. The Lord Jesus is good enough for ANGELS TO WORSHIP!

 

[Wrangler]

You dingbat lol- it's not a strawman at all. MY convo with Runningman was about worship.

Ad Homenim proves you lost the argument. This thread is about instruction of who to pray. Those with an agenda make excuses to change the subject. I almost forgot you didn’t answer my questions.

Any verse say Angels should pray to Jesus?

No excuse necessary if there is not a verse instructing us to worship Jesus. Is there such an instructional verse?

No surprise.

 

[Wick Stick]

Reading and studying what other men thought God said rather than being led by the Holy Spirit in to Truth (God's Word) is how and why so many are following false doctrine.

I think it might be the opposite.

Self-interpretation of Scripture without paying heed to good teachers or submitting to any authority seems to lead to the creation of heresies.

 

[JimKnox]

Right on cue and reliably as expected;

Yes, that is what Isa. 9:6-7 state. However, given the significant amount of NT evidence that the Son is not the Father and never has been, that means the son of Isa. 9:6 being called “Everlasting Father” means something other than how Father is used in the NT, which is exclusively of the first person of the Trinity.


And so is saying the Son is the Father.

You dance, twist and deny deny deny.

 

[JimKnox]

Albert Barnes' Notes says:

The everlasting Father - The Chaldee renders this expression, ‘The man abiding forever.’ The Vulgate, ‘The Father of the future age.’ Lowth, ‘The Father of the everlasting age.’ Literally, it is the Father of eternity, עד אבי 'ĕby ‛ad. The word rendered “everlasting,” עד ‛ad, properly denotes “eternity,” and is used to express “forever;” see Psa_9:6, Psa_9:19; Psa_19:10. It is often used in connection with עולם ‛ôlâm, thus, עולם ועד vā‛ed ‛ôlâm, “forever and ever;” Psa_10:16; Psa_21:5; Psa_45:7. The Hebrews used the term father in a great variety of senses - as a literal father, a grandfather, an ancestor, a ruler, an instructor. The phrase may either mean the same as the Eternal Father, and the sense will be, that the Messiah will not, as must be the case with an earthly king, however excellent, leave his people destitute after a short reign, but will rule over them and bless them forever (Hengstenberg); or it may be used in accordance with a custom usual in Hebrew and in Arabic, where he who possesses a thing is called the father of it.​

​

Thus, the father of strength means strong; the father of knowledge, intelligent; the father of glory, glorious; the father of goodness, good; the father of peace, peaceful. According to this, the meaning of the phrase, the Father of eternity, is properly eternal. The application of the word here is derived from this usage. The term Father is not applied to the Messiah here with any reference to the distinction in the divine nature, for that word is uniformly, in the Scriptures, applied to the first, not to the second person of the Trinity. But it is used in reference to durations, as a Hebraism involving high poetic beauty. He is not merely represented as everlasting, but he is introduced, by a strong figure, as even the Father of eternity, as if even everlasting duration owed itself to his paternity. There could not be a more emphatic declaration of strict and proper eternity. It may be added, that this attribute is often applied to the Messiah in the New Testament; Jhn_8:58; Col_1:17; Rev_1:11, Rev_1:17-18; Heb_1:10-11;​

Yep.
Scripture is clear:
Son, Everlasting Father, The mighty GOD, Wonderful, Counselor.
Same same same.
The Great Three in One.

 

[JimKnox]

I think it might be the opposite.

Self-interpretation of Scripture without paying heed to good teachers or submitting to any authority seems to lead to the creation of heresies.

Nope. Relying on (self proclaimed experts who twist Scripture) is how the RCC gained so much power.

 

[Justified]

Right on cue and reliably as expected;

You dance, twist and deny deny deny.

Yet, you have nothing of substance to offer. What have I denied and where did I twist? If taking the full biblical revelation into account and so take things in context is to “dance, twist and deny deny deny,” then I’m guilty.

Yep.
Scripture is clear:
Son, Everlasting Father, The mighty GOD, Wonderful, Counselor.
Same same same.
The Great Three in One.

You’re promoting the heresy of Modalism/Oneness theology.

 

[JimKnox]

Yet, you have nothing of substance to offer. What have I denied and where did I twist? If taking the full biblical revelation into account and so take things in context is to “dance, twist and deny deny deny,” then I’m guilty.



You’re promoting the heresy of Modalism/Oneness theology.

No. I am not.
I am promoting the orthodox Trinity.

This nonsense that we must pray to The Father as if it is not the same as to Christ, is utter folly.