The Bible doesn't instruct to pray to Jesus

[Runningman]

Sorry, but Scripture DOESN’T lie.

JEUS is LORD means just what it says - because He is ONE in BEING with the Father and the Holy Spirit.
It doesn't say, "Jesus is only LORD metaphorically" . . .

Sorry - but that is an asinine response.

Many of the words we adhere to are NOT in Scripture:
- Rapture is not in the Bible.
- Incarnation is not in the Bible.
- Omnipotence is not in the Bible.
- For that matter, Bible is not in the Bible.

Does that make them “FALSE”??

And "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit" (Acts 7:59), is NOT a prayer??
Please tell me what it IS, if NOT a prayer.

This is what Jesus prayed to the Father right before HE died.

More of your rationalizations . . .

1 Cor. 16:22 is absolutely a prayer.
Paul isn’t speaking to his readers. He is speaking to JESUS.

WRONG. I’ve repeatedly shown you but you won't. even TRY to understand Scripture because it doesn't match YOUR bizarre conclusions.

There is NONE so blind that the one who refuses to see . . .

First I would like to give you props for confessing that many words and phrases you use to describe your beliefs are not Scripture. That in and of itself is probably the hardest hurdle for people to get past; the possibility of being wrong, publicly at that, the insecurity and feelings that brings. We are often our own worst enemy when it comes to the advancement of our own growth, so I commend your courage for taking that step.

However, since you're convinced that there is only one Lord and under no circumstances is that anyone but Jesus, then may I ask you which Lord sends the resurrected, post-ascension, glorified, and exalted Jesus?

Acts 3
19Repent, then, and turn back, so that your sins may be wiped away, 20that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that He may send Jesus, the Christ, who has been appointed for you.

This isn't the only place where a Lord who isn't Jesus appears. Since there is a different Lord who is clearly not Jesus, then the unspecified Lord you are saying is Jesus, who was prayed to, does not have to be Jesus. So, yeah, still no instruction or clear example of praying to Jesus in the Bible.

 

[keithr]

Heb 2
12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee

Oh yeah...we worship Jesus, the creator of all things.

Err, that verse is quoting Jesus saying that he will declare God's name to his brothers (Christians), i.e. that he will make God known to them, and that Jesus will praise (his) God among the congregation of believers. It's not saying that people should praise Jesus (although he does deserve praise as the saviour of the world).

Matthew 4:10 WEB

(10) Then Jesus said to him, “Get behind me, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and you shall serve him only.’”​

(Which is quoting Deuteronomy 6:13, "You shall fear Yahweh your God; and you shall serve him".)​

We should only worship (revere and adore) God YHVH. We should serve (render sacred service to a deity) God YHVH.

Philippians 3:3 WEB

(3) For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh;​

God is our Father, whom Jesus said we should pray to; Jesus is our brother and future husband:

Matthew 25:40 WEB

(40) “The King will answer them, ‘Most certainly I tell you, because you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’​

Matthew 12:49-50 WEB

(49) He stretched out his hand towards his disciples, and said, “Behold, my mother and my brothers!​

(50) For whoever does the will of my Father who is in heaven, he is my brother, and sister, and mother.”​

​

John 20:17 WEB

(17) Jesus said to her, “Don’t hold me, for I haven’t yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brothers, and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”​

Matthew 23:8-10 WEB

(8) But don’t you be called ‘Rabbi,’ for one is your teacher, the Christ, and all of you are brothers.​

(9) Call no man on the earth your father, for one is your Father, he who is in heaven.​

(10) Neither be called masters, for one is your master, the Christ.​

And of course, the previous verse is:

Hebrews 2:11 WEB

(11) For both he who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are all from one, for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brothers,​

where Jesus says that both he as the sanctifier and all those who are sanctified, all alike derive their origin from God, hence he is not ashamed to call those sanctified his brothers.

Since he is our high priest, we pray to Him, (as a priest, by definition, is one who stands between God and man.)

Yes, Jesus is our high priest, but we are to be priests under him. The priests don't pray to the high priest, they only pray to God YHVH.

Hebrews 3:1 WEB

(1) Therefore, holy brothers, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Jesus;​

1 Peter 2:5,9 WEB

(5) You also, as living stones, are built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.​

(9) But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, that you may proclaim the excellence of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light:​

 

[David in NJ]

“14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted. ”
Hebrews 2:14-18 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

YES = in the "likeness" and "appearance" of man

Do you believe this includes the fallen nature? = "to be made like unto his brethren"

 

[Runningman]

Err, that verse is quoting Jesus saying that he will declare God's name to his brothers (Christians), i.e. that he will make God known to them, and that Jesus will praise (his) God among the congregation of believers. It's not saying that people should praise Jesus (although he does deserve praise as the saviour of the world).

Matthew 4:10 WEB

(10) Then Jesus said to him, “Get behind me, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and you shall serve him only.’”​

(Which is quoting Deuteronomy 6:13, "You shall fear Yahweh your God; and you shall serve him".)​

We should only worship (revere and adore) God YHVH. We should serve (render sacred service to a deity) God YHVH.

Philippians 3:3 WEB

(3) For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh;​

God is our Father, whom Jesus said we should pray to; Jesus is our brother and future husband:

Matthew 25:40 WEB

(40) “The King will answer them, ‘Most certainly I tell you, because you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’​

Matthew 12:49-50 WEB

(49) He stretched out his hand towards his disciples, and said, “Behold, my mother and my brothers!​

(50) For whoever does the will of my Father who is in heaven, he is my brother, and sister, and mother.”​

​

John 20:17 WEB

(17) Jesus said to her, “Don’t hold me, for I haven’t yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brothers, and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”​

Matthew 23:8-10 WEB

(8) But don’t you be called ‘Rabbi,’ for one is your teacher, the Christ, and all of you are brothers.​

(9) Call no man on the earth your father, for one is your Father, he who is in heaven.​

(10) Neither be called masters, for one is your master, the Christ.​

And of course, the previous verse is:

Hebrews 2:11 WEB

(11) For both he who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are all from one, for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brothers,​

where Jesus says that both he as the sanctifier and all those who are sanctified, all alike derive their origin from God, hence he is not ashamed to call those sanctified his brothers.


Yes, Jesus us our high priest, but we are to be priests under him. The priests don't pray to the high priest, they only pray to God YHVH.

Hebrews 3:1 WEB

(1) Therefore, holy brothers, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Jesus;​

1 Peter 2:5,9 WEB

(5) You also, as living stones, are built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.​

(9) But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, that you may proclaim the excellence of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light:​

Nice comment and I totally agree with you!

I find it interesting that the "pray to Jesus" arguments can essentially be reduced to praying to someone who is a high priest and servant that doesn't share the Divine Name of God with the Father. When we look at it like that, I think it helps kind cut through the noise a little better because we understand clearly from the Bible that we never pray to humans, high priests, servants, and those who do not have the same name as God. The Catholics took this concept and extended it to Mary and the saints. The Protestant reformation rightly understood this was a problem, but they didn't take it far enough. Martin Luther didn't fully see how deep the corruption was and thus only helped correct part of the problem.

 

[BreadOfLife]

First I would like to give you props for confessing that many words and phrases you use to describe your beliefs are not Scripture. That in and of itself is probably the hardest hurdle for people to get past; the possibility of being wrong, publicly at that, the insecurity and feelings that brings. We are often our own worst enemy when it comes to the advancement of our own growth, so I commend your courage for taking that step.

I apologize for saying earlier that your post was “asinine”, - because THIS post is FAR more asinine . . .

Doctrinal words and phrases don’t need to be explicitly mentioned in Scripture. As I showed you earlier – there are MANY words and phrases that are TAUGHT in Scripture – but not explicitly-used in Scripture.

As I’ve already educated you –
Bible isn’t even in the Bible. Should we NOT use this term?

Should we NOT use Incarnation since it’s not used in Scripture – although explicitly TAUGHT (John 1:1, 1:14)?

Isn’t God Omnipotent (ALL powerful)?? Should we NOT use this word that is explicitly taught (Gen, 1:1, Jer. 32:17, Heb. 1:3)??

However, since you're convinced that there is only one Lord and under no circumstances is that anyone but Jesus, then may I ask you which Lord sends the resurrected, post-ascension, glorified, and exalted Jesus?

Acts 3
19Repent, then, and turn back, so that your sins may be wiped away, 20that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that He may send Jesus, the Christ, who has been appointed for you.

This isn't the only place where a Lord who isn't Jesus appears. Since there is a different Lord who is clearly not Jesus, then the unspecified Lord you are saying is Jesus, who was prayed to, does not have to be Jesus. So, yeah, still no instruction or clear example of praying to Jesus in the Bible.

“A” LORD?? The Son (Jesus) is THE Lord, along with the Father and the Holy Spirit. There aren’t 3 Lords or “Gods”. There is only ONE.

WOW – you just refuse to believe. Good luck with that on Judgement Day . . .

Look - you can cherry-pick Scripture ALL day long in a vain attempt to “prove” your point – but you’ll STILL be wrong. You’re wrong because you cherry-pick instead of reading ALL of the verses presented in CONTEXT.

It is excruciatingly clear that the Holy Spirit, the Son and the Father are ONE in Being, manifested by THREE distinct Persons. This is why Jesus commands us to Baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit – NOT just the Father (Matt. 28:13).

BOTH the Father and the SON are the Creator God (John 1), by whom the Holy Spirit proceeds:

John 1:1-5
In the beginning was the Word (Jesus), and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In HIM (God) was life, and that life (God) was the light of all mankind. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

John 1:14
The Word (GOD) became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

This is an explicit teaching of the Incarnation - without using the word, “Incarnation”.
GOD Himself became Flesh and dwelt among us – AS the Person of the Son.

Get it now??

 

[Runningman]

I apologize for saying earlier that your post was “asinine”, - because THIS post is FAR more asinine . . .

Doctrinal words and phrases don’t need to be explicitly mentioned in Scripture. As I showed you earlier – there are MANY words and phrases that are TAUGHT in Scripture – but not explicitly-used in Scripture.

As I’ve already educated you –
Bible isn’t even in the Bible. Should we NOT use this term?

Should we NOT use Incarnation since it’s not used in Scripture – although explicitly TAUGHT (John 1:1, 1:14)?

Isn’t God Omnipotent (ALL powerful)?? Should we NOT use this word that is explicitly taught (Gen, 1:1, Jer. 32:17, Heb. 1:3)??

“A” LORD?? The Son (Jesus) is THE Lord, along with the Father and the Holy Spirit. There aren’t 3 Lords or “Gods”. There is only ONE.

WOW – you just refuse to believe. Good luck with that on Judgement Day . . .

Look - you can cherry-pick Scripture ALL day long in a vain attempt to “prove” your point – but you’ll STILL be wrong. You’re wrong because you cherry-pick instead of reading ALL of the verses presented in CONTEXT.

It is excruciatingly clear that the Holy Spirit, the Son and the Father are ONE in Being, manifested by THREE distinct Persons. This is why Jesus commands us to Baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit – NOT just the Father (Matt. 28:13).

BOTH the Father and the SON are the Creator God (John 1), by whom the Holy Spirit proceeds:

John 1:1-5
In the beginning was the Word (Jesus), and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In HIM (God) was life, and that life (God) was the light of all mankind. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

John 1:14
The Word (GOD) became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

This is an explicit teaching of the Incarnation - without using the word, “Incarnation”.
GOD Himself became Flesh and dwelt among us – AS the Person of the Son.

Get it now??

I would accept descriptions of the things you're importing non-Biblical words, phrases, and vocabulary to describe. Unfortunately, the Bible does not say that God became a man, or that God took on flesh, or that the Word is even clearly defined as God Himself.

Ever checked out the Greek on John 1:1?

In John 1:1 the phrase καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος contains a special kind of Greek grammar construct called an anarthrous predicate nominative. This simply means that "God" doesn't have a definite article on it and is the predicate describing the subject, "the Word." The Word has the definite article, but God does not. This means the Word is the subject is being described as God.

If the expression goes before the verb it's usually defining what kind of thing the subject is. Another way of putting this is, the Word is like God, but isn't identified as the same God the Word is with mentioned later. So of the Word, "God" is qualitative rather than personal. I would add that the Word in 1John 1:1-3 is explicitly identified as a thing there. There is also a defensible argument to be made that the Word in John 1:1-14 can be translated with non-personal pronouns like "it" instead of a "he" such as how Tyndale did in his New Testament version.

So just to clear the air, you have not provided any sort of direct proof that God incarnated. It would be one thing if you could lean on some Old Testament prophecies or anywhere else in the Bible where they said God became a man. Unfortunately, that doesn't exist.

I would accept a clear description of what you're insisting is true, but I won't do so without proper evidence.

I don't like to just press forward without a discussion, but you didn't acknowledge Acts 3:19,20 or address who the Lord is who sent Jesus, but the show must go on. Acts 3:19,20 shows there is a Lord who is not Jesus that sends Jesus. This is because God is not the same Lord as Jesus in Scripture. The verse you are quoting where they "pray to the Lord" and it doesn't mention that Lord being Jesus, is not a prayer to Jesus. Of course, they were praying to Lord God Almighty, not Jesus.

 

[Runningman]

For anyone interested, I will quote a passage in which Peter and John prayed to God, calling Him Sovereign Lord, Creator, while referring to David and Jesus as the Lord's servants, showing they didn't believe that praying to Jesus is a thing to do:

Acts 4
23On their release, Peter and John returned to their own people and reported everything that the chief priests and elders had said to them. 24When the believers heard this, they lifted up their voices to God with one accord. “Sovereign Lord,” they said, “You made the heaven and the earth and the sea and everything in them. 25You spoke by the Holy Spirit through the mouth of Your servant, our father David:

‘Why do the nations rage
and the peoples plot in vain?
26The kings of the earth take their stand
and the rulers gather together
against the Lord
and against His Anointed One.’

27In fact, this is the very city where Herod and Pontius Pilate conspired with the Gentiles and the people of Israel against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed. 28They carried out what Your hand and will had decided beforehand would happen. 29And now, Lord, consider their threats, and enable Your servants to speak Your word with complete boldness, 30as You stretch out Your hand to heal and perform signs and wonders through the name of Your holy servant Jesus.”

 

[PS95]

For anyone interested, I will quote a passage in which Peter and John prayed to God, calling Him Sovereign Lord, Creator, while referring to David and Jesus as the Lord's servants, showing they didn't believe that praying to Jesus is a thing to do:

Acts 4
23On their release, Peter and John returned to their own people and reported everything that the chief priests and elders had said to them. 24When the believers heard this, they lifted up their voices to God with one accord. “Sovereign Lord,” they said, “You made the heaven and the earth and the sea and everything in them. 25You spoke by the Holy Spirit through the mouth of Your servant, our father David:

‘Why do the nations rage
and the peoples plot in vain?
26The kings of the earth take their stand
and the rulers gather together
against the Lord
and against His Anointed One.’

27In fact, this is the very city where Herod and Pontius Pilate conspired with the Gentiles and the people of Israel against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed. 28They carried out what Your hand and will had decided beforehand would happen. 29And now, Lord, consider their threats, and enable Your servants to speak Your word with complete boldness, 30as You stretch out Your hand to heal and perform signs and wonders through the name of Your holy servant Jesus.”

RMan,
There is nothing revealing there. As I've told you before I pray to my Father all of the time through His Son. I also pray to the Lord Jesus at times. Both are biblical, but you don't accept that. We get it. All we can do is show you why we believe what we believe. You came to a Christian forum to divide us with your views, and it just wont fly. You said you "talk" to Jesus. Fine- I call that prayer. He is in heaven is He not? To me, that is praying. But you can use the word that suits you.

As usual, the problem you have is that you deny any pre-existence of Jesus. So for me to show you Philippians chapter 2 is a waste of time since you somehow manage to twist that into not being about Jesus being in God's form prior to coming to earth and that He became a servant when He became flesh.
No one here will deny that the Son served His Father- that is what doing His will is. The Son did the Father's will. We know. There is simply no news flash there.
We are called to serve Christ are we not?.
As for "servants"- yes and David also called Jesus His Lord.
A Psalm of David. The LORD says to my Lord: “Sit at My right hand Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.” Ps 110:1

And Christians serve the Lord Jesus.-
knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance. It is the Lord Christ whom you serve. Col 3:24

Eph 6:7
Serve with good will, as to the Lord and not to men,

Ro 12:11
Do not let your zeal subside; keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord.

He will reward us-
Eph 6:8
because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good he does, whether he is slave or free.

2 Tim 4:8
From now on there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but to all who crave His appearing.

James 1:2
Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love Him.

As to arguing this endlessly with you- no, I wont do that. I see no reason to give you the stage here any longer here since that is what you want- Attempting to plant seeds of doubts in the minds of believers is not noble or good- it is what Satan does. We are quite used to that- trust me.
I am warning you as a person who is divisive- as scripture teaches us--
Reject a divisive person after a first and second warning, Titus 3:10


Ro 16:17
Now I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who create divisions and obstacles that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Turn away from them.

 

[Anchorite]

The Runningman sounds like a Jehovah’s Witness, Iglesia ni Cristo, La Luz del Mundo, or Christadelphian.

I doubt he will reveal his religion though.

 

[PS95]

The Runningman sounds like a Jehovah’s Witness, Iglesia ni Cristo, La Luz del Mundo, or Christadelphian.

I doubt he will reveal his religion though.

He's Unitarian which it seems they vary on much and many are just theists.. but yeah- it's closest to the Christadelphians.
- denying the pre-existence just floors me. - it's like there is a spell on them.

 

[Brakelite]

YES = in the "likeness" and "appearance" of man

Oh. But not really a man like we are?

 

[Runningman]

The Runningman sounds like a Jehovah’s Witness, Iglesia ni Cristo, La Luz del Mundo, or Christadelphian.

I doubt he will reveal his religion though.

Christian, Biblical Unitarianism.

 

[Runningman]

RMan,
There is nothing revealing there. As I've told you before I pray to my Father all of the time through His Son. I also pray to the Lord Jesus at times. Both are biblical, but you don't accept that. We get it. All we can do is show you why we believe what we believe. You came to a Christian forum to divide us with your views, and it just wont fly. You said you "talk" to Jesus. Fine- I call that prayer. He is in heaven is He not? To me, that is praying. But you can use the word that suits you.

As usual, the problem you have is that you deny any pre-existence of Jesus. So for me to show you Philippians chapter 2 is a waste of time since you somehow manage to twist that into not being about Jesus being in God's form prior to coming to earth and that He became a servant when He became flesh.
No one here will deny that the Son served His Father- that is what doing His will is. The Son did the Father's will. We know. There is simply no news flash there.
We are called to serve Christ are we not?.
As for "servants"- yes and David also called Jesus His Lord.
A Psalm of David. The LORD says to my Lord: “Sit at My right hand Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.” Ps 110:1

And Christians serve the Lord Jesus.-
knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance. It is the Lord Christ whom you serve. Col 3:24

Eph 6:7
Serve with good will, as to the Lord and not to men,

Ro 12:11
Do not let your zeal subside; keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord.

He will reward us-
Eph 6:8
because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good he does, whether he is slave or free.

2 Tim 4:8
From now on there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but to all who crave His appearing.

James 1:2
Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love Him.

As to arguing this endlessly with you- no, I wont do that. I see no reason to give you the stage here any longer here since that is what you want- Attempting to plant seeds of doubts in the minds of believers is not noble or good- it is what Satan does. We are quite used to that- trust me.
I am warning you as a person who is divisive- as scripture teaches us--
Reject a divisive person after a first and second warning, Titus 3:10


Ro 16:17
Now I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who create divisions and obstacles that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Turn away from them.

Good morning

I think we come at the Bible from different perspectives which seems to be why we're gonna keep disagreeing. I don't agree with adding conclusions to the Scripture. For example, I don't agree that we should say "I also pray to the Lord Jesus at times" like how you did. Ok, I will give it to you that people did speak to Jesus pre and post-resurrection, but to be honest, it never explicitly commands or instructs believers to pray to Jesus. If it did, I would be praying to Jesus more than you do, trust me. I just follow the explicit teachings of Jesus. He taught to pray to the Father, I keep it at that. Sorry if you consider that divisive.

I also don't really feel good about or enjoy your false accusations. I mean, yeah, I understand you feel that way, but I mean, at least I am not in your church Sunday morning informing everyone that the Bible doesn't instruct to pray to Jesus, unless you wanna invite me . I am open to missionary and outreach work in the apostate Trinitarian church. However, I am just here on a public forum pointing these things out. I don't feel the need to reciprocate by accusing you of things, unless it's specifically about the topic of the Bible. I understand it can feel invasive and uncomfortable being confronted with difficult realities about Scripture. I am sure you are a good guy and just wanna vent. It's ok you can do that.

With that being said, I don't agree that we are invited to add things to the Bible like "Jesus being in God's form prior to coming to earth..." let's slam on the breaks. The Bible doesn't say that anywhere. Nor "...He became a servant when He became flesh."

I know you said you don't want to defend your beliefs anymore, but if anyone has any example of what Jesus was saying or doing "before coming to earth and becoming human flesh" then please quote the Old Testament verse so we can settle this. I can't find anything.

 

[Wrangler]

I don't like to just press forward without a discussion, but you didn't acknowledge Acts 3:19,20 or address who the Lord is who sent Jesus, but the show must go on. Acts 3:19,20 shows there is a Lord who is not Jesus that sends Jesus. This is because God is not the same Lord as Jesus in Scripture. The verse you are quoting where they "pray to the Lord" and it doesn't mention that Lord being Jesus, is not a prayer to Jesus. Of course, they were praying to Lord God Almighty, not Jesus.

Great point! I've said there are many lords and gods in Scripture - but only one true capital-God who is the Creator of all things, uniquely named YHWH and in many translations rendered capital-LORD.

 

[David in NJ]

Oh. But not really a man like we are?

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Were you God before you were created?

Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made.

What man created all things?

 

[Wrangler]

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Were you God before you were created?

Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made.

What man created all things?

Are you able to grasp what you quoted referenced no man?

 

[rebuilder 454]

Jesus is a man, too, never called the creator in the Bible. Is himself a creation, etc. See John 1:14, Colossians 2:15, Revelation 3:14.

Question, do you believe humans are creations?

Watchtower

Way off...not saved.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Great point! I've said there are many lords and gods in Scripture - but only one true capital-God who is the Creator of all things, uniquely named YHWH and in many translations rendered capital-LORD.

Unmistakable.
To deny Jesus deity and testimony is to miss salvation

 

[rebuilder 454]

Indeed - as you invoke a little word play. LOL


Not one verse says that.


Perhaps you're reading too much into John 1:1. See John 1:45, the one Moses told us about. Do you know to what this refers? See Deut 18:15-18.

Jesus is called the Son of God. Sons, by definition, are created beings, aren't they? Jesus is the only begotten son of God. Begotten means made. Look it up.

Oh wait...you're watchtower.
Denying who Jesus is.
Denying the word of God.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Err, that verse is quoting Jesus saying that he will declare God's name to his brothers (Christians), i.e. that he will make God known to them, and that Jesus will praise (his) God among the congregation of believers. It's not saying that people should praise Jesus (although he does deserve praise as the saviour of the world).

Matthew 4:10 WEB

(10) Then Jesus said to him, “Get behind me, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and you shall serve him only.’”​

(Which is quoting Deuteronomy 6:13, "You shall fear Yahweh your God; and you shall serve him".)​

We should only worship (revere and adore) God YHVH. We should serve (render sacred service to a deity) God YHVH.

Philippians 3:3 WEB

(3) For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh;​

God is our Father, whom Jesus said we should pray to; Jesus is our brother and future husband:

Matthew 25:40 WEB

(40) “The King will answer them, ‘Most certainly I tell you, because you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’​

Matthew 12:49-50 WEB

(49) He stretched out his hand towards his disciples, and said, “Behold, my mother and my brothers!​

(50) For whoever does the will of my Father who is in heaven, he is my brother, and sister, and mother.”​

​

John 20:17 WEB

(17) Jesus said to her, “Don’t hold me, for I haven’t yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brothers, and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”​

Matthew 23:8-10 WEB

(8) But don’t you be called ‘Rabbi,’ for one is your teacher, the Christ, and all of you are brothers.​

(9) Call no man on the earth your father, for one is your Father, he who is in heaven.​

(10) Neither be called masters, for one is your master, the Christ.​

And of course, the previous verse is:

Hebrews 2:11 WEB

(11) For both he who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are all from one, for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brothers,​

where Jesus says that both he as the sanctifier and all those who are sanctified, all alike derive their origin from God, hence he is not ashamed to call those sanctified his brothers.


Yes, Jesus is our high priest, but we are to be priests under him. The priests don't pray to the high priest, they only pray to God YHVH.

Hebrews 3:1 WEB

(1) Therefore, holy brothers, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Jesus;​

1 Peter 2:5,9 WEB

(5) You also, as living stones, are built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.​

(9) But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, that you may proclaim the excellence of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light:​

By omitting the deity verses?
You make a case against the bible.
To deny Jesus is to omit salvation.

All cults do your mental gymnastics.
Mentally reforming the Bibles message.