The Bible doesn't instruct to pray to Jesus

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David in NJ

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Are you able to grasp what you quoted referenced no man?
You are 100% CORRECT = HalelluYAH

Let's continue on the Path of Truth>>>

In the beginning was the Word
, and the Word was with God, and
the Word was God.
He was with God
in the beginning.
Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made. In Him was life, and that life was the light of men.
The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.


The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us.
We have seen His glory, the glory of the one and only Sonc from the Father, full of grace and truth.

15John testified concerning Him. He cried out, saying, “This is He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because He was before me.’”

16From His fullness we have all received grace upon grace.
17For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
18No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is Himself God and is at the Father’s side, has made Him known.
 
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rebuilder 454

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Agreed. This part should be fairly straightforward. Servants worship and serve God, but we do not worship servants in the Bible. Even Jesus is one of those servants.

Do you want to worship the God of Abraham or worship His servant?

Acts 3
13The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified His servant Jesus.
So the BIBLE lied about the Father calling JESUS GOD , AND THAT JESUS IS THE CREATOR?
 
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rebuilder 454

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Jesus is a man, too, never called the creator in the Bible. Is himself a creation, etc. See John 1:14, Colossians 2:15, Revelation 3:14.

Question, do you believe humans are creations?
Humans are not begotten of God.
They are created by God.
Jesus is declared to be the creator in John and Hebrews.
He is called God By Jehovah.
He was worshipped by Thomas when He appeared to him.

Way too much to wiggle out of.

It is the testimony of Jesus.
His deity.
 
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BreadOfLife

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For anyone interested, I will quote a passage in which Peter and John prayed to God, calling Him Sovereign Lord, Creator, while referring to David and Jesus as the Lord's servants, showing they didn't believe that praying to Jesus is a thing to do:
Jeus, the Son IS God . . .

John 20:28
And Thomas answered and said unto him [Jesus],My Lord and my God!

Did John LIE in his Gospel??
Because if he DID - then GOD, the Author of Scripture is a liar . . .


The FATHER is God
Ephesians 4:6
Psalm 68:5
Malachi 2:10
Isaiah 63:16
2 Corinthians 1:3-4
John 3:16
John 8:41
1 Thessalonians 3:13

Jesus, the SON is God
Isaiah 7:14
Isaiah 9:6
Matt. 4:7
John 1:1
John 1:3
John 8:58
John 10:30
John 14:9
John 20:28
2 Corinthians 4:4
Philippians 2:6
Colossians 2:9
1 Timothy 3:16
Hebrews 1:8
Titus 2:13

The HOLY SPIRIT is God
John 14:16-18
Luke 12:10
2 Corinthians 3:17
2 Corinthians 13:5
John 14:23

Acts 5:3-4

To reject this truth is to reject GOD . . .
 
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Runningman

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Great point! I've said there are many lords and gods in Scripture - but only one true capital-God who is the Creator of all things, uniquely named YHWH and in many translations rendered capital-LORD.
Yes, indeed. It's because Jesus is himself subordinate to God, not equal to God. God, the Father, as the Lord of heaven and earth, a title never given to Jesus in all of Scripture. I might post something later about all of the divine names and titles Jesus lacks later, or I might just bring it up if the discussion needs to go there.

Matthew 11
25At that time Jesus declared, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

Acts 17
24The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples made by human hands.
 

Runningman

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So the BIBLE lied about the Father calling JESUS GOD , AND THAT JESUS IS THE CREATOR?
There's the thing, the Bible never actually calls Jesus the creator either. Humans can be called god in the Bible, if you mean like in the sense of Moses (Exodus 7:1) or Solomon (Psalm 45:6,7) but certainly not in the same sense as Lord God Almighty, another title Jesus is never called anywhere in Scripture.
 

Runningman

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Humans are not begotten of God.
Agreed,.
They are created by God.
Agreed.
Jesus is declared to be the creator in John and Hebrews.
He is not.
He is called God By Jehovah.
No he wasn't.
He was worshipped by Thomas when He appeared to him.
Bowing isn't the same thing as God worship.
Way too much to wiggle out of.
Agreed.
It is the testimony of Jesus.
His deity.
Jesus never said he was God.
 

BreadOfLife

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I would accept descriptions of the things you're importing non-Biblical words, phrases, and vocabulary to describe. Unfortunately, the Bible does not say that God became a man, or that God took on flesh, or that the Word is even clearly defined as God Himself.

Ever checked out the Greek on John 1:1?

In John 1:1 the phrase καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος contains a special kind of Greek grammar construct called an anarthrous predicate nominative. This simply means that "God" doesn't have a definite article on it and is the predicate describing the subject, "the Word." The Word has the definite article, but God does not. This means the Word is the subject is being described as God.

If the expression goes before the verb it's usually defining what kind of thing the subject is. Another way of putting this is, the Word is like God, but isn't identified as the same God the Word is with mentioned later. So of the Word, "God" is qualitative rather than personal. I would add that the Word in 1John 1:1-3 is explicitly identified as a thing there. There is also a defensible argument to be made that the Word in John 1:1-14 can be translated with non-personal pronouns like "it" instead of a "he" such as how Tyndale did in his New Testament version.

So just to clear the air, you have not provided any sort of direct proof that God incarnated. It would be one thing if you could lean on some Old Testament prophecies or anywhere else in the Bible where they said God became a man. Unfortunately, that doesn't exist.

I would accept a clear description of what you're insisting is true, but I won't do so without proper evidence.

I don't like to just press forward without a discussion, but you didn't acknowledge Acts 3:19,20 or address who the Lord is who sent Jesus, but the show must go on. Acts 3:19,20 shows there is a Lord who is not Jesus that sends Jesus. This is because God is not the same Lord as Jesus in Scripture. The verse you are quoting where they "pray to the Lord" and it doesn't mention that Lord being Jesus, is not a prayer to Jesus. Of course, they were praying to Lord God Almighty, not Jesus.
WRONG. I gave you PLENTY of Scriptural evidence.
You know you’ve LOST the debate when you have to resort to LYING . . .

Which
part of the following tells you that God did NOT incarnate as the Son??

John 1:1

In the beginning was the Word (Jesus), and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS God.

John 1:14
The
Word (GOD) became flesh and made his dwelling among us.

Thes 2 verses ALONE are a slam-dunk . . .



PS - was Tomas worshiping a FALSE God??

John 20:28

Thomas replied (to Jesus), "My Lord and my God!"

Explain THAT for me, please . . .
 
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Justified

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I would accept descriptions of the things you're importing non-Biblical words, phrases, and vocabulary to describe. Unfortunately, the Bible does not say that God became a man, or that God took on flesh, or that the Word is even clearly defined as God Himself.
Except that it does, in the very passage you refer to below.

Ever checked out the Greek on John 1:1?

In John 1:1 the phrase καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος contains a special kind of Greek grammar construct called an anarthrous predicate nominative. This simply means that "God" doesn't have a definite article on it and is the predicate describing the subject, "the Word." The Word has the definite article, but God does not. This means the Word is the subject is being described as God.

If the expression goes before the verb it's usually defining what kind of thing the subject is. Another way of putting this is, the Word is like God, but isn't identified as the same God the Word is with mentioned later. So of the Word, "God" is qualitative rather than personal. I would add that the Word in 1John 1:1-3 is explicitly identified as a thing there.
Exactly. "The Word was God" is qualitative, meaning it that the Word is God, or divine, in nature. You did well up until you added your own thoughts into it. Another way of putting it is not "the Word is like God;" that is a simile and that is not in the text. The third clause literally reads "and God was the Word."

You also ignore the Greek of the first two clauses. In the first clause--"In the beginning was the Word"--the Greek shows that the Word was already in existence when the beginning (of creation) began. The second clause--"and the Word was with God"--speaks of relationship. It isn't merely speaking of being together or near. It expresses “direction towards,” as in relationship and communion, implying intimacy. That can only happen between two (or more) persons.

So, by the time we read, "and the Word was God," John has already stated that the Word has absolute existence (an attribute of God) and that the Word was in close, personal relationship with God (can only mean at least two persons). It is then perfectly consistent to say that this eternal person he refers to as "the Word" actually "was God." It would be inconsistent to say anything else.

There is also a defensible argument to be made that the Word in John 1:1-14 can be translated with non-personal pronouns like "it" instead of a "he" such as how Tyndale did in his New Testament version.
No, it is not a defensible position. Please tell me how this makes sense:

Joh 1:10 [It] was in the world, and the world was made through [it], yet the world did not know [it].
Joh 1:11 [It] came to [its]own, and [its] own people did not receive [it].
Joh 1:12 But to all who did receive [it], who believed in [its] name, [it] gave the right to become children of God,
Joh 1:13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen [its] glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

These verses are clearly speaking of Jesus, as a continuation of giving understanding about the Word. Notice how John has no hesitation in bringing Jesus into the discussion about the Word. The only rational conclusion is that Jesus is the Word, that is, the incarnation of the eternal person of the Word.

So just to clear the air, you have not provided any sort of direct proof that God incarnated.
But you did, yet you deny it because you're reading your own ideas into the text.

It would be one thing if you could lean on some Old Testament prophecies or anywhere else in the Bible where they said God became a man. Unfortunately, that doesn't exist.
And yet the NT says it happened. You can't use prophetic silence from the OT to disprove the clear teachings of the NT.
 

Runningman

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Jeus, the Son IS God . . .

John 20:28
And Thomas answered and said unto him [Jesus],My Lord and my God!

Did John LIE in his Gospel??
Because if he DID - then GOD, the Author of Scripture is a liar . . .


The FATHER is God
Ephesians 4:6
Psalm 68:5
Malachi 2:10
Isaiah 63:16
2 Corinthians 1:3-4
John 3:16
John 8:41
1 Thessalonians 3:13

Jesus, the SON is God
Isaiah 7:14
Isaiah 9:6
Matt. 4:7
John 1:1
John 1:3
John 8:58
John 10:30
John 14:9
John 20:28
2 Corinthians 4:4
Philippians 2:6
Colossians 2:9
1 Timothy 3:16
Hebrews 1:8
Titus 2:13

The HOLY SPIRIT is God
John 14:16-18
Luke 12:10
2 Corinthians 3:17
2 Corinthians 13:5
John 14:23

Acts 5:3-4

To reject this truth is to reject GOD . . .
That isn't how God is defined or described in the Bible though. I understand that you are finding a bunch of unrelated verses and putting them all together, then you're importing more non-Biblical philosophy to say "God is a trinity" but that isn't what the Bible actually says. Those verses are important, but there is a meaning and a context to them that fits perfectly fine with the explicit statements about the one and only true God being the Father. Since the Father is alone the true God (John 17:3) that would exclude a trinity. In addition to that, 1 Corinthians 8:6 explicitly states that one God is the Father. So that's what I believe.

Question, do you find it interesting that you cannot quote any particular verse or passage about God being a trinity, nothing that clearly states Jesus is God, and nothing that explicitly instructs the church to pray to Jesus, worship Jesus, or even to believe Jesus is God as a core component of the gospel?
 

Runningman

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WRONG. I gave you PLENTY of Scriptural evidence.
You know you’ve LOST the debate when you have to resort to LYING . . .

Which
part of the following tells you that God did NOT incarnate as the Son??

John 1:1

In the beginning was the Word (Jesus), and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS God.

John 1:14
The
Word (GOD) became flesh and made his dwelling among us.

Thes 2 verses ALONE are a slam-dunk . . .



PS - was Tomas worshiping a FALSE God??

John 20:28

Thomas replied (to Jesus), "My Lord and my God!"

Explain THAT for me, please . . .
I gave you a fine counterpoint in my previous reply, to which you have resorted to what seems like Internet shouting and foot stomping. Demanding people believe you without evidence is a nonstarter.

Care to address these points to see if we can keep going?

1. What is your understanding of Greek, if any?
2. John 20:28 doesn't grammatically show that Thomas was addressing Jesus. For example, no one translates it as "You are my Lord and my God" but everywhere else in the Bible where Jesus is directly addressed, they included a "You" in the translation. Look it up. Also, you have not explained how Jesus is God based on what Thomas said. In what sense is Jesus god?
 

Runningman

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Except that it does, in the very passage you refer to below.
We will see that it does not.
Exactly. "The Word was God" is qualitative, meaning it that the Word is God, or divine, in nature. You did well up until you added your own thoughts into it. Another way of putting it is not "the Word is like God;" that is a simile and that is not in the text. The third clause literally reads "and God was the Word."
So "The Word was God" is not a qualitative statement. That would be a personal statement about who the Word, not what the Word is. You have conceded on record that "The Word was God" is qualitative, might I add. So the force of what John wrote in John 1:1 is essentially that the Word is Like God, but cannot be the same God. This is a problem for Trinitarianism because you need all members to be the same God. That premise grammatically not supported in John 1:1.
You also ignore the Greek of the first two clauses. In the first clause--"In the beginning was the Word"--the Greek shows that the Word was already in existence when the beginning (of creation) began. The second clause--"and the Word was with God"--speaks of relationship. It isn't merely speaking of being together or near. It expresses “direction towards,” as in relationship and communion, implying intimacy. That can only happen between two (or more) persons.
There is no evidence that your interpretation is true in the sense you are saying. We can actually flip back to Genesis where right off the bat God is describing Himself as a singular person who created alone using spoken words. Skip forward back to John 1:1 and it says in verse 3, that "All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him." Notice it says "Through." Through refers to instrumentality, kinda like a tool. Since God's words aren't God anywhere else in the entire Bible, yet are occasionally personified, a plausible interpretation of John 1:1-3 is using personification to understand God's words as a thing, having at least one quality of God, but not actually God.
So, by the time we read, "and the Word was God," John has already stated that the Word has absolute existence (an attribute of God) and that the Word was in close, personal relationship with God (can only mean at least two persons). It is then perfectly consistent to say that this eternal person he refers to as "the Word" actually "was God." It would be inconsistent to say anything else.
Don't forget that the Word is not The (definite article) God in John 1:1. This is important. This shows that John didn't believe the Word is actually God. Let me ask it this way, is our God The God or is our God someone who isn't The God?
No, it is not a defensible position. Please tell me how this makes sense:

Joh 1:10 [It] was in the world, and the world was made through [it], yet the world did not know [it].
Joh 1:11 [It] came to [its]own, and [its] own people did not receive [it].
Joh 1:12 But to all who did receive [it], who believed in [its] name, [it] gave the right to become children of God,
Joh 1:13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen [its] glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
It's defensible because grammatical gender is not the same thing as natural gender or personhood. Spirit is neuter, Word is masculine, etc. So not every masculine noun refers to a male person in Greek. The Word is a thing, after all, in 1 John 1:1-3, despite it being a masculine noun. This shows how the Word can be understood as a thing, regardless of how the noun "Word" is gendered. I would add, this is a one way street in this case. The Word can be translated as an "it" in John 1:1-14, but it is grammatically impossible to translate the Word as a he in 1 John 1:1-3. Check it out.

Apostle John explicitly describes the Word as a thing.

1 John 1
1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our own eyes, which we have gazed upon and touched with our own hands—this is the Word of life. 2And this is the life that was revealed; we have seen it and testified to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was revealed to us.
3We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And this fellowship of ours is with the Father and with His Son, Jesus Christ.
These verses are clearly speaking of Jesus, as a continuation of giving understanding about the Word. Notice how John has no hesitation in bringing Jesus into the discussion about the Word. The only rational conclusion is that Jesus is the Word, that is, the incarnation of the eternal person of the Word.


But you did, yet you deny it because you're reading your own ideas into the text.


And yet the NT says it happened. You can't use prophetic silence from the OT to disprove the clear teachings of the NT.
That is not supported by what John 1:1 says. As I said earlier, it would be one thing if you could find any other verses or passages to support your theories, but there really isn't much else in the Bible. I would say 1 John 1:1-3 is devastating to the theories you're proposing.
 

David in NJ

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That isn't how God is defined or described in the Bible though. I understand that you are finding a bunch of unrelated verses and putting them all together, then you're importing more non-Biblical philosophy to say "God is a trinity" but that isn't what the Bible actually says. Those verses are important, but there is a meaning and a context to them that fits perfectly fine with the explicit statements about the one and only true God being the Father. Since the Father is alone the true God (John 17:3) that would exclude a trinity. In addition to that, 1 Corinthians 8:6 explicitly states that one God is the Father. So that's what I believe.

Question, do you find it interesting that you cannot quote any particular verse or passage about God being a trinity, nothing that clearly states Jesus is God, and nothing that explicitly instructs the church to pray to Jesus, worship Jesus, or even to believe Jesus is God as a core component of the gospel?
There are many ways in which God is Defined in the Scriptures

Example #1 - John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Example #2 - John 14:5-7
“Lord,” said Thomas, “we do not know where You are going, so how can we know the way?”

Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
If you had known Me, you would know My Father as well. From now on you do know Him and have seen Him.”

Example #2 - John 17:1-5
Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. 3And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 4I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. 5And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
 

Wrangler

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Yes, indeed. It's because Jesus is himself subordinate to God, not equal to God.
These verses were made to order to be ignored by those who suppose otherwise.
  • John 14:28 the Father is greater than I.
  • 1 Corinthians 11:3 the head of the Messiah is God.
  • 1 Corinthians 15:27 “God has put all things under his authority.” (Of course, when it says “all things are under his authority,” that does not include God himself, who gave Christ his authority.
What purpose is excluding God from who Christ has authority over if they are one and the same? Harry gave Harry authority over all things, of course, when it says 'all things,' that doesn't include Harry himself. Huh?
 
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BreadOfLife

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I gave you a fine counterpoint in my previous reply, to which you have resorted to what seems like Internet shouting and foot stomping. Demanding people believe you without evidence is a nonstarter.
Nobody’s “demanding” anything from you. You’ve chosen to see the evidence and pridefully REJECT it.
Good luck with that . . .

1. What is your understanding of Greek, if any?
2. John 20:28 doesn't grammatically show that Thomas was addressing Jesus. For example, no one translates it as "You are my Lord and my God" but everywhere else in the Bible where Jesus is directly addressed, they included a "You" in the translation. Look it up. Also, you have not explained how Jesus is God based on what Thomas said. In what sense is Jesus god?
MUCH better than YOURS, I'd say . . ..

2. John 20:28 doesn't grammatically show that Thomas was addressing Jesus. For example, no one translates it as "You are my Lord and my God" but everywhere else in the Bible where Jesus is directly addressed, they included a "You" in the translation. Look it up. Also, you have not explained how Jesus is God based on what Thomas said. In what sense is Jesus god?
Nice TRY – but NO cigar . . .
Your dancing around the Greek and rampant use of false logic is pathetic.

The Greek text explicitly states:

John 20:28

ἀπεκρίθη Θωμᾶς καὶ εἶπεν αὐτῷ· ὁ κύριος μου καὶ ὁ θεός μου.
Thomas answered and said unto hHIM, “My lord and my God.”

This would have been considered BLASPHEMY if it were NOT true. Thomas knew better than to blaspheme God, so he was telling the TRUTH.

Anybody who claims to know Scripture or Jewish culture knows that Thomas was addressing JESUS because he was responding to JESUS.
"My LORD and my GOD" is directed toward the person (JESUS) who asked Thomas the question.

So, it wan't ME who your argument here – God’s WORD did . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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That isn't how God is defined or described in the Bible though. I understand that you are finding a bunch of unrelated verses and putting them all together, then you're importing more non-Biblical philosophy to say "God is a trinity" but that isn't what the Bible actually says. Those verses are important, but there is a meaning and a context to them that fits perfectly fine with the explicit statements about the one and only true God being the Father. Since the Father is alone the true God (John 17:3) that would exclude a trinity. In addition to that, 1 Corinthians 8:6 explicitly states that one God is the Father. So that's what I believe.
Then the onus is on YOU to disprove the almost THREE DOZEN verses that a TRIUNE God.
Context is NOT your friend . . .


Question, do you find it interesting that you cannot quote any particular verse or passage about God being a trinity, nothing that clearly states Jesus is God, and nothing that explicitly instructs the church to pray to Jesus, worship Jesus, or even to believe Jesus is God as a core component of the gospel?
I’ve done BOTHad nauseam.

YOUR refusal to believe the truth of Scripture doesn’t make it “wrong” to reject your perversions.
You’ve presented nothing but YOUR opinions – but you haven’t disproven my Scriptural evidence.


The Trinity, as Shown in Scripture
Genesis 1:26
Then God said, "Let
US make mankind in OUR image, in OUR likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

Matt. 28:19
"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,"

John 15:26
“When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Fatherthe Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me.

1 Cor. 12:4-6
"Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. And there are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons."

2 Cor. 13:14
"The grace of the
Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all."
 

Runningman

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Nobody’s “demanding” anything from you. You’ve chosen to see the evidence and pridefully REJECT it.
Good luck with that . . .


MUCH better than YOURS, I'd say . . ..


Nice TRY – but NO cigar . . .
Your dancing around the Greek and rampant use of false logic is pathetic.

The Greek text explicitly states:

John 20:28

ἀπεκρίθη Θωμᾶς καὶ εἶπεν αὐτῷ· ὁ κύριος μου καὶ ὁ θεός μου.
Thomas answered and said unto hHIM, “My lord and my God.”

This would have been considered BLASPHEMY if it were NOT true. Thomas knew better than to blaspheme God, so he was telling the TRUTH.

Anybody who claims to know Scripture or Jewish culture knows that Thomas was addressing JESUS because he was responding to JESUS.
"My LORD and my GOD" is directed toward the person (JESUS) who asked Thomas the question.

So, it wan't ME who your argument here – God’s WORD did . . .
That doesn't follow to the conclusion you're making. Let's pretend that Jesus was actually called God by Thomas. Why would that be any different than all of the others who are called God in the Bible? Moses in Exodus 7:1, most likely king Solomon in Psalm 45:6,7, and many others in Psalm 82:6. We see that humans can be called a god, not to suggest that they are actually Lord God Almighty in the Bible, a title never given to Jesus in all of Scripture.

So that doesn't help your conclusion. Jesus is also never called the Word either. You seem to be deriving meaning from assumptions that are never actually stated in the Bible. You are essentially saying that contrary to Scripture never instructing the flock to pray to him, or worship him, or believe he is God, that after all, he is God. That's theology from the 4th century invented during the trinitarian movement; not Scirpture.
 
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Justified

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We will see that it does not.

So "The Word was God" is not a qualitative statement. That would be a personal statement about who the Word, not what the Word is. You have conceded on record that "The Word was God" is qualitative, might I add. So the force of what John wrote in John 1:1 is essentially that the Word is Like God, but cannot be the same God. This is a problem for Trinitarianism because you need all members to be the same God. That premise grammatically not supported in John 1:1.
No. You're not understanding. There is absolutely zero room for the understanding that "the Word is Like God." You're adding in a "like" that is nowhere in the text. If that was meant to be there, John would have written it. A being either is God or it is not God; there is no "like God."

That "God was the Word" is qualitative means that the Word has the attributes of God, but only God has the attributes of God. What John is saying is that the Word is God in nature, which is another way of saying that he is God, since only God has the nature of God.

However, he also makes a distinction between God and the Word who is in nature God. So, we arrive at the Trinity as the best explanation: one God as three distinct, eternal, coequal persons.

There is no evidence that your interpretation is true in the sense you are saying.
Except for the Greek grammar, which you appeal to in 1:1c but ignore in the first two clauses. Why is that?

We can actually flip back to Genesis where right off the bat God is describing Himself as a singular person who created alone using spoken words.
Let's look at what God says about himself:

Gen 1:26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

In speaking of himself, God uses plural personal pronouns. Then when Moses writes out the act of creation of male and female, he uses singular personal pronouns. Why? Because there is only one God. Yet, God hints at a multiplicity within himself.

Skip forward back to John 1:1 and it says in verse 3, that "All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him." Notice it says "Through." Through refers to instrumentality, kinda like a tool.
Of course. The Word is a "person" and the agent of creation. The Word is clearly the preincarnate Son of God. This is confirmed in 1 Cor. 8:6, where Paul expands on the Shema:

1Co 8:4 Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that “an idol has no real existence,” and that “there is no God but one.”
1Co 8:5 For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”—
1Co 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Basic logic shows that if "from whom are all things" shows the absolute existence of the Father, then it necessarily follows that "through whom are all things" speaks of the absolute existence of the Son. Notice how nicely it lines up with what John states in John 1:1-14.

We also have:

Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Once again, this perfectly lines up with John 1:1-3 and 1 Cor. 8:6. We also have:

Heb 1:2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.
...
Heb 1:8 But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
Heb 1:9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”
Heb 1:10 And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands;
Heb 1:11 they will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment,
Heb 1:12 like a robe you will roll them up, like a garment they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will have no end.”

Again, perfect agreement with John 1:1-3, 1 Cor. 8:6, and Col. 1:15-17. Yet here we have the Father saying that Psalm 102:25-27 are speaking of the Son, despite it clearly referring to Yahweh:

Psa 102:25 Of old you laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands.
Psa 102:26 They will perish, but you will remain; they will all wear out like a garment. You will change them like a robe, and they will pass away,
Psa 102:27 but you are the same, and your years have no end.

In addition to all these that clearly show that the Son is true deity, just as the Father is, and yet there is only one God, here is the incarnation of God who took on humanity:

Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Php 2:5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,
Php 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
Php 2:7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
Php 2:8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

Notice that Jesus (as the Son) "was in the form of God," then "emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men." He emptied himself, "by taking the form of a servant, by being born in the likeness of men." That necessarily entails that he pre-existed and had such power that he could empty himself.

Just as it would be absolutely false to say that the Son was the agent of creation for all things that came into existence but was himself created (that at one point he didn't exist), it would be false to claim that he emptied himself to become human, but didn't exist prior to being born.

Once again, perfect agreement with all the above passages. If the Son didn't exist for all eternity past, just as the Father has, then all the above passages are false and we should all just throw out our Bible as they are completely untrustworthy in what they say.
 

Justified

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Since God's words aren't God anywhere else in the entire Bible, yet are occasionally personified, a plausible interpretation of John 1:1-3 is using personification to understand God's words as a thing, having at least one quality of God, but not actually God.
No, that isn't a plausible explanation. You're ignoring the other context, which I provided, namely that John speaks of the Word and Jesus as being one and the same. Jesus is the person of the Word incarnate. There is no other explanation.

Don't forget that the Word is not The (definite article) God in John 1:1. This is important. This shows that John didn't believe the Word is actually God.
Of course it is important, but not in the way you think. John clearly thought the Word was actually God, just not the Father. John couldn't have used the definite article in 1:1c, otherwise God and Word would have been interchangeable. But he already made a distinction between them (the Father and the Word in intimate relationship) in 1:1b.

Let me ask it this way, is our God The God or is our God someone who isn't The God?
The God of Christians, the God of the Bible, is the one and only God who exists as three coequal, coeternal persons.

It's defensible
Except that it isn't, for the reasons I gave. once again you're ignoring the context. John clearly believes that Jesus is the Word, moving seamlessly between the two in John 1:9-14. Notice that John doesn't even mention Jesus--he is still speaking about the Word--but states, "He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him" (affirming verse 3), "He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him," and "But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God."

He can only be speaking of Jesus, yet is talking about the Word. Therefore, there is simply no way contextually that using "it" is defensible. The Word is a person that is God in nature, that very person that "became flesh and dwelt among us" as Jesus.

because grammatical gender is not the same thing as natural gender or personhood. Spirit is neuter, Word is masculine, etc. So not every masculine noun refers to a male person in Greek.
Yes, I know.

The Word is a thing, after all, in 1 John 1:1-3, despite it being a masculine noun. This shows how the Word can be understood as a thing, regardless of how the noun "Word" is gendered. I would add, this is a one way street in this case. The Word can be translated as an "it" in John 1:1-14, but it is grammatically impossible to translate the Word as a he in 1 John 1:1-3. Check it out.

Apostle John explicitly describes the Word as a thing.

1 John 1
1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our own eyes, which we have gazed upon and touched with our own hands—this is the Word of life. 2And this is the life that was revealed; we have seen it and testified to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was revealed to us.
3We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And this fellowship of ours is with the Father and with His Son, Jesus Christ.

That is not supported by what John 1:1 says. As I said earlier, it would be one thing if you could find any other verses or passages to support your theories, but there really isn't much else in the Bible. I would say 1 John 1:1-3 is devastating to the theories you're proposing.
No, they're in agreement. There is no issue here.
 

BreadOfLife

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That doesn't follow to the conclusion you're making. Let's pretend that Jesus was actually called God by Thomas. Why would that be any different than all of the others who are called God in the Bible? Moses in Exodus 7:1, most likely king Solomon in Psalm 45:6,7, and many others in Psalm 82:6. We see that humans can be called a god, not to suggest that they are actually Lord God Almighty in the Bible, a title never given to Jesus in all of Scripture.

So that doesn't help your conclusion. Jesus is also never called the Word either. You seem to be deriving meaning from assumptions that are never actually stated in the Bible. You are essentially saying that contrary to Scripture never instructing the flock to pray to him, or worship him, or believe he is God, that after all, he is God. That's theology from the 4th century invented during the trinitarian movement; not Scirpture.
Exod. 7:1
Then the LORD said to Moses, “See, I have made you AS God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron shall be your prophet.


AS (like) God. To WHO? To PHAROAH – and NOT everybody else. Since when was God only the God of ONE person?
Your problem is that your argument is completely DEVOID of contextual logic . . .

Psalm 45:6-7
is about GOD and not Solomon:

“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.”


Did Solomon’s throne last “For ever and ever”??
NO
. Nut God's DOES . . .

Psalm 82:6 - More
of your anti-contextual, literalist mumbo-jumbo . . .
Psalm 82:6

I said, “You are gods, sons of the Most High.


God is referring to our unity IN HIM, who is God. He is NOT assigning “Godhood” to US - because that would make Him a LIAR, who said:
Deut. 6:4

“Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is ONE.”

Exod. 20:2-3
I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
“You shall have NO OTHER GODS before me.


Again – being a Scriptural Literalist is your downfall. Scripture does NOT always speak in absolute statements. For example:

Psalm 14, where it says, "The FOOL (the wicked) says in his heart, ‘There is no God. THEY are corrupt... there is NONE that does good.’” Later in the same Psalm, we hear that “God is present in the company of the “righteous.” This is inclusive and metaphorical language.

In Matt. 2:3, where we read that Herod was “greatly troubled” when he heard about the birth of a new King – “… and ALL of Jerusalem with him.”

Are we to believe that ALL of Jerusalem knew about the birth of Christ and was “upset” about it? OR, is this simply another case of metaphorical language?

Bottom Line:
Stop quoting Scripture until you understand what it
MEANS . . .