The big drone attack on Israel today...

[Keraz]

This happens before Jesus returns. The church is in heaven and the whole church has made herself ready.

How the Church, that is the living peoples of God, will be made ready; is by proving their faith and trust in the Lord for His protection through the difficult and testing end times.
When Jesus is back on earth; then the Wedding Supper will take place. There is no scripture saying the Church will go to live in heaven. That idea is just a figment of imagination and will never happen.

As to worthy, you have the church in the grave until the millenial is over.

The ONLY dead in Christ who will be raised back to life when Jesus Returns, will be the GT martyrs. Rev 20:4
Don't you realize that the dead of the Church includes Adam, Abraham, Moses, [the congregation in the wilderness; 1 Corinthians 10:2-3] David, the Apostles, Billy Graham, etc.
All of them, every righteous person will be raised after the Millennium, Rev 20:5, to Eternal life. Every unrighteous person will be raised to Eternal Death.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

How the Church, that is the living peoples of God, will be made ready; is by proving their faith and trust in the Lord for His protection through the difficult and testing end times.
When Jesus is back on earth; then the Wedding Supper will take place. There is no scripture saying the Church will go to live in heaven. That idea is just a figment of imagination and will never happen.

Well we agree on one thing here. The marriage takes place in heaven and the marriage supper takes place on earth after Jesus returns.

And while obedient works are what make our robes- it is the Bema judgment for believers only that make us ready. That is the judgment where all our works done in His name are tried and only the obedient works last.

The ONLY dead in Christ who will be raised back to life when Jesus Returns, will be the GT martyrs. Rev 20:4
Don't you realize that the dead of the Church includes Adam, Abraham, Moses, [the congregation in the wilderness; 1 Corinthians 10:2-3] David, the Apostles, Billy Graham, etc.
All of them, every righteous person will be raised after the Millennium, Rev 20:5, to Eternal life. Every unrighteous person will be raised to Eternal Death.

You disagree with Jesus and His Word!!

Matthew 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Jesus did not say He would keep building, continue building or add on to His church, but will build (future, active, indicativew)

You are simply wrong.

The church is resurrected at the rapture. Possibly the OT saints.

The GT saints are resurrected in the first resurrection of Rev. 20. the lost are the only ones raised at the second resurrection.

Remember, those raised after the 1000 years, the second death has autrhority on them.


5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

YOu need to learn to read better.

 

[Keraz]

Well we agree on one thing here. The marriage takes place in heaven and the marriage supper takes place on earth after Jesus returns.

You misread the Bible and you misquote me. The Marriage and the Supper will happen at the same time. ON EARTH.

And while obedient works are what make our robes- it is the Bema judgment for believers only that make us ready. That is the judgment where all our works done in His name are tried and only the obedient works last.

Those who prove their faith during the Lords Day of wrath, will receive the white robes of righteousness. An allegorical reward.
They will populate the new nation in the holy Land. The peoples John sees in Rev 7:9

The Bema Judgment will take place after Jesus has Returned. THEN the wedding can take place.

You are simply wrong.

The church is resurrected at the rapture. Possibly the OT saints.

There will be no 'rapture to heaven', for anyone. The resurrection of the dead is only for the GT martyrs.

YOu need to learn to read better.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You misread the Bible and you misquote me. The Marriage and the Supper will happen at the same time. ON EARTH.

Well I misquote you not the bible.

Revelation 19

King James Version

​

19 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.
4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.
5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.
6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Marriage takes place before Jesus returns. You have to twist the Scriptures to make verse 11 happen before verse 7.

Those who prove their faith during the Lords Day of wrath, will receive the white robes of righteousness. An allegorical reward.
They will populate the new nation in the holy Land. The peoples John sees in Rev 7:9

The Bema Judgment will take place after Jesus has Returned. THEN the wedding can take place.

So only trib saints to you get robes. Huh! Yes the martyred saints get robes as well. But they are not resurrected until after Jesus returns. these are in heaven These are voices in heaven.

There will be no 'rapture to heaven', for anyone. The resurrection of the dead is only for the GT martyrs.

Yes there is. It is absolutely clear in Scripture and yes the first resurrection is for martyred GT saints.

I noticed you ignored the fact that your contention that the Body of Christ existed in the OT was shot down by Jesus own words.

 

[ewq1938]

Yes there is. It is absolutely clear in Scripture and yes the first resurrection is for martyred GT saints.

No, it's for all the saved dead because it is written that the dead in Christ rise first, which is linguistically related to first resurrection.

 

[Keraz]

So only trib saints to you get robes. Huh! Yes the martyred saints get robes as well. But they are not resurrected until after Jesus returns. these are in heaven These are voices in heaven.

The voices in heaven of Rev 19:1-6 are from the Christian martyrs of this age. Their souls are kept under the Aktar in heaven and they are allowed to cry out whenever God wills it. Rev 6:9-11
The only martyrs resurrected when Jesus Returns, will be the GT martyrs.

The living Christian peoples who proved their faith and trust during the terrible Day of the Lords fiery wrath, Revelation 7:14, will also receive white robes.

Yes there is. It is absolutely clear in Scripture

Far from the 'rapture to heaven' being clear in the Bible, it simply is not there. Only by looking at some verses with the pre-conceived idea of a rapture, can that false belief be made to look just faintly possible.
But the rapture is entirely refuted by the many Prophesies which do tell us about the end times. As well as the ridiculous controversy over pre, mid or post, that makes that doctrine into just a joke.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

No, it's for all the saved dead because it is written that the dead in Christ rise first, which is linguistically related to first resurrection.

That is not what Scriptures say:

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

1st Resurrection is for martyred GT saints only.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The voices in heaven of Rev 19:1-6 are from the Christian martyrs of this age. Their souls are kept under the Aktar in heaven and they are allowed to cry out whenever God wills it. Rev 6:9-11
The only martyrs resurrected when Jesus Returns, will be the GT martyrs.

The living Christian peoples who proved their faith and trust during the terrible Day of the Lords fiery wrath, Revelation 7:14, will also receive white robes.

Where does it say whenever God wills it?

also where are the souls of the non martyred?

Far from the 'rapture to heaven' being clear in the Bible, it simply is not there. Only by looking at some verses with the pre-conceived idea of a rapture, can that false belief be made to look just faintly possible.
But the rapture is entirely refuted by the many Prophesies which do tell us about the end times. As well as the ridiculous controversy over pre, mid or post, that makes that doctrine into just a joke.

You 'll find out.

but I wonder why ow for three posts you have not answered the post where I showed Jesus will build His church future while you say the church has been around sin ce the beginning!

either jesus is wrong or you are- I go with you being wrong.

 

[ewq1938]

That is not what Scriptures say:

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

1st Resurrection is for martyred GT saints only.

No, it's for all the dead in Christ:

1Th_4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

 

[Keraz]

Where does it say whenever God wills it?

also where are the souls of the non martyred?

The souls of the martyrs 'sleep' under the Altar in heaven. God allows them to cry out at times, as Revelation tells us.
The souls of all the other dead people - Christians or not, ALL await the GwT Judgment after the Millennium. They are unconscious.

You 'll find out.

but I wonder why ow for three posts you have not answered the post where I showed Jesus will build His church future while you say the church has been around sin ce the beginning!

either jesus is wrong or you are- I go with you being wrong.

YOU have a lot of finding out to do and it will be by the hard way.

1 Corinthians 10:4 proves that Jesus was present with ancient Israel. They were His congregation. then as we are now.
Which way will you go now?

 

[ewq1938]

The souls of the martyrs 'sleep' under the Altar in heaven.

This doesn't come from the bible though. It never says they are sleeping there.

God allows them to cry out at times, as Revelation tells us.

As if God limits when they can speak? That also does not come from the bible. All the passage in Rev tells us is that the dead in heaven do speak, and are not ever shown as sleeping.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

No, it's for all the dead in Christ:

1Th_4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

I am sorry you have trouble reading Englis! Because REv. 20 clearly says:

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

It is only for those who had not worshipped the beast, taken his mark or beheaded for the faith. this is only a GT saint resurrection.

1 Thess. is a totally different event.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

YOU have a lot of finding out to do and it will be by the hard way.

1 Corinthians 10:4 proves that Jesus was present with ancient Israel. They were His congregation. then as we are now.
Which way will you go now?

So Jesus was mistaken when He specifically used the future tense in referring to building HIs hchurch? Okay well we know your lack of respect for Gods Word!

The souls of the martyrs 'sleep' under the Altar in heaven. God allows them to cry out at times, as Revelation tells us.
The souls of all the other dead people - Christians or not, ALL await the GwT Judgment after the Millennium. They are unconscious.

That is not what the bible says, but then again you have no problem reinterpreting Scripture to fit your theories.

 

[ewq1938]

I am sorry you have trouble reading Englis!

lol


You are wrong. Rev 20 doesn't say those ppl are the only ones to resurrect. It simply focuses upon that one group but at that same time all the dead in Christ rise. Even Rev 2 makes this clear.

 

[Keraz]

lol


You are wrong. Rev 20 doesn't say those ppl are the only ones to resurrect. It simply focuses upon that one group but at that same time all the dead in Christ rise. Even Rev 2 makes this clear.

Only the hopelessly blinded would say all the dead in Christ will rise at the Return of Jesus.
Rev 20:5 The rest of the dead do not come to life again until the thousand years is over.

 

[ewq1938]

Only the hopelessly blinded would say all the dead in Christ will rise at the Return of Jesus.
Rev 20:5 The rest of the dead do not come to life again until the thousand years is over.

All the dead in Christ rise, then later the rest of the dead shall and those are the unsaved/not in Christ dead. Only the hopelessly blinded would say blah blah blah

 

[Keraz]

All the dead in Christ rise

1 Thess 4:14-17. or Revelation 20:4-6, never says; ALL the dead in Christ will rise....
You have added to scripture to suit a false belief.

 

[ewq1938]

1 Thess 4:14-17. or Revelation 20:4-6, never says; ALL the dead in Christ will rise....
You have added to scripture to suit a false belief.

It says the dead in Christ rise first. There is no limiter of "some" so it is all as I said.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

lol


You are wrong. Rev 20 doesn't say those ppl are the only ones to resurrect. It simply focuses upon that one group but at that same time all the dead in Christ rise. Even Rev 2 makes this clear.

But it does.

There is a resurrection of a specific group of people here!

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Then:

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

1000 years after that first group are resurrected another group is resurrected! and this group the second death has authority over. and that is found further down the chapter:

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[ewq1938]

But it does.

There is a resurrection of a specific group of people here!

Yes but they aren't the only ones to resurrect at that timeframe. They are part of the first resurrection but not the only ones. So many passages speak of the righteous resurrecting before the unrighteous. Never one time is the first resurrection separated into groups where a group rises before others.

Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

First group resurrection: "to everlasting life"
Second group resurrection: "to shame and everlasting contempt"


Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life ; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation

First group resurrection: "resurrection of life"
Second group resurrection: "the resurrection of damnation"


Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

First group resurrection: "the just"
Second group resurrection: the "unjust"


It is never 3 resurrections like what you suggest:

First group resurrection: "the just"
Second group resurrection: more of the "just"
third group resurrection: the "unjust"