1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

The Blessed Virgin Mary Is The Mother Of Jesus Christ

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by watt, Jun 27, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. watt

    watt New Member

    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    0
    THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY is the MOTHER OF JESUS CHRIST, the MOTHER OF GOD. MARY PROPHESIED IN THE OLD TESTAMENTThe Old Testament refers to Our Blessed Lady both in its prophecies and its types or figures. Genesis 3:15 The first prophecy referring to Mary is found in the very opening chapters of the Book of Genesis (3:15): "I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed; she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel." This rendering appears to differ in two respects from the original Hebrew text: First, the Hebrew text employs the same verb for the two renderings "she shall crush" and "thou shalt lie in wait"; the Septuagint renders the verb both times by terein, to lie in wait; Aquila, Symmachus, the Syriac and the Samaritan translators, interpret the Hebrew verb by expressions which mean to crush, to bruise; the Itala renders the terein employed in the Septuagint by the Latin "servare", to guard; St. Jerome [1] maintains that the Hebrew verb has the meaning of "crushing" or "bruising" rather than of "lying in wait", "guarding". Still in his own work, which became the Latin Vulgate, the saint employs the verb "to crush" (conterere) in the first place, and "to lie in wait" (insidiari) in the second. Hence the punishment inflicted on the serpent and the serpent's retaliation are expressed by the same verb: but the wound of the serpent is mortal, since it affects his head, while the wound inflicted by the serpent is not mortal, being inflicted on the heel. The second point of difference between the Hebrew text and our version concerns the agent who is to inflict the mortal wound on the serpent: our version agrees with the present Vulgate text in reading "she" (ipsa) which refers to the woman, while the Hebrew text reads hu' (autos, ipse) which refers to the seed of the woman. According to our version, and the Vulgate reading, the woman herself will win the victory; according to the Hebrew text, she will be victorious through her seed. In this sense does the Bull "Ineffabilis" ascribe the victory to Our Blessed Lady. The reading "she" (ipsa) is neither an intentional corruption of the original text, nor is it an accidental error; it is rather an explanatory version expressing explicitly the fact of Our Lady's part in the victory over the serpent, which is contained implicitly in the Hebrew original. The strength of the Christian tradition as to Mary's share in this victory may be inferred from the retention of "she" in St. Jerome's version in spite of his acquaintance with the original text and with the reading "he" (ipse) in the old Latin version. As it is quite commonly admitted that the Divine judgment is directed not so much against the serpent as against the originator of sin, the seed of the serpent denotes the followers of the serpent, the "brood of vipers", the "generation of vipers", those whose father is the Devil, the children of evil, imitando, non nascendo (Augustine). One may be tempted to understand the seed of the woman in a similar collective sense, embracing all who are born of God. But seed not only may denote a particular person, but has such a meaning usually, if the context allows it. St. Paul (Galatians 3:16) gives this explanation of the word "seed" as it occurs in the patriarchal promises: "To Abraham were the promises made and to his seed. He saith not, and to his seeds, as of many; but as of one, and to his seed, which is Christ". Finally the expression "the woman" in the clause "I will put enmities between thee and the woman" is a literal version of the Hebrew text. The Hebrew Grammar of Gesenius-KautzschTo be Cont. MAY GOD BLESS ALLAMENFROM WATT
     
  2. watt

    watt New Member

    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    0
    IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER AND OF THE SON AND OF THE HOLY SPIRITHere I AM again to share with you all THE TRUTH OF GOD LOVE.THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY is the MOTHER OF JESUS CHRIST, the MOTHER OF GOD. MARY PROPHESIED IN THE OLD TESTAMENTThe Old Testament refers to Our Blessed Lady both in its prophecies and its types or figures. Cont…..Establishes the rule: Peculiar to the Hebrew is the use of the article in order to indicate a person or thing, not yet known and not yet to be more clearly described, either as present or as to be taken into account under the contextual conditions. Since our indefinite article serves this purpose, we may translate: "I will put enmities between you and a woman". Hence the prophecy promises a woman, Our Blessed Lady, who will be the enemy of the serpent to a marked degree; besides, the same woman will be victorious over the Devil, at least through her offspring. The completeness of the victory is emphasized by the contextual phrase "earth shall thou eat", which is according to Wincklera common old-oriental expression denoting the deepest humiliationIsaias 7:1-17 The second prophecy referring to Mary is found in Isaias 7:1-17. Critics have endeavoured to represent this passage as a combination of occurrences and sayings from the life of the prophet written down by an unknown hand The credibility of the contents is not necessarily affected by this theory, since prophetic traditions may be recorded by any writer without losing their credibility. But even Duhm considers the theory as an apparent attempt on the part of the critics to find out what the readers are willing to bear patiently; he believes it is a real misfortune for criticism itself that it has found a mere compilation in a passage which so graphically describes the birth-hour of faith. According to 2 Kings 16:1-4, and 2 Chronicles 27:1-8, Achaz, who began his reign 736 B.C., openly professed idolatry, so that God gave him into the hands of the kings of Syria and Israel. It appears that an alliance had been concluded between Phacee, King of Israel, and Rasin, King of Damascus, for the purpose of opposing a barrier to the Assyrian aggressions. Achaz, who cherished Assyrian proclivities, did not join the coalition; the allies invaded his territory, intending to substitute for Achaz a more subservient ruler, a certain son of Tabeel. While Rasin was occupied in reconquering the maritime city Elath, Phacee alone proceeded against Juda, "but they could not prevail". After Elath had fallen, Rasin joined his forces with those of Phacee; "Syria hath rested upon Ephraim", whereupon "his (Achaz') heart was moved, and the heart of his people, as the trees of the woods are moved with the wind". Immediate preparations must be made for a protracted siege, and Achaz is busily engaged near the upper pool from which the city received the greater part of its water supply. Hence the Lord says to Isaias: "Go forth to meet Achaz. . .at the end of the conduit of the upper pool". The prophet's commission is of an extremely consoling nature: "See thou be quiet; hear not, and let not thy heart be afraid of the two tails of these firebrands". The scheme of the enemies shall not succeed: "it shall not stand, and this shall not be." What is to be the particular fate of the enemies? • Syria will gain nothing, it will remain as it has been in the past: "the head of Syria is Damascus, and the head of Damascus is Rasin". • Ephraim too will remain in the immediate future as it has been hitherto: "the head of Ephraim is Samaria, and the head of Samaria the son of Romelia"; but after sixty-five years it will be destroyed, "within threescore and five years Ephraim shall cease to be a people". Achaz had abandoned the Lord for Moloch, and put his trust in an alliance with Assyria; hence the conditional prophecy concerning Juda, "if you will not believe, you shall not continue". The test of belief follows immediately: "ask thee a sign of the Lord thy God, either unto the depth of hell or unto the height above". Achaz hypocritically answers: "I will not ask, and I will not tempt the Lord", thus refusing to express his belief in God, and preferring his Assyrian policy. The king prefers Assyria to God, and Assyria will come: "the Lord shall bring upon thee and upon thy people, and upon the house of thy father, days that have not come since the time of the separation of Ephraim from Juda with the king of the Assyrians." The house of David has been grievous not merely to men, but to God also by its unbelief; hence it "shall not continue", and, by an irony of Divine punishment, it will be destroyed by those very men whom it preferred to God. to be Cont…May GOD BLESS ALLAMENFROM WATT
     
  3. Alpha and Omega

    Alpha and Omega New Member

    Messages:
    250
    Likes Received:
    0
    This has nothing to do with Mary. This verse is right after Satan tempts Eve and has sexual intercourse with her. Cain is Satan's son while Abel is Adams. They were twins. This verse is God talking to Satan there is not prophecy here.http://www.christianityboard.com/true-sin-...study-t509.htmlI have a question Watt,Why do people worship/pray to Mary?
     
  4. watt

    watt New Member

    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    0
    IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER AND OF THE SON AND OF THE HOLY SPIRITHere I AM again to share with you all THE TRUTH OF GOD LOVE.THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY is the MOTHER OF JESUS CHRIST, the MOTHER OF GOD. MARY PROPHESIED IN THE OLD TESTAMENTThe Old Testament refers to Our Blessed Lady both in its prophecies and its types or figures. Cont…..Still the general Messianic promises made to the house of David cannot be frustrated: "The Lord Himself shall give you a sign. Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel. He shall eat butter and honey, that he may know to refuse the evil and to choose the good. For before the child know to refuse the evil, and to choose the good, the land which thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of the face of her two kings." Without answering a number of questions connected with the explanation of the prophecy, we must confine ourselves here to the bare proof that the virgin mentioned by the prophet is Mary the Mother of Christ. The argument is based on the premises that the prophet's virgin is the mother of Emmanuel, and that Emmanuel is Christ. The relation of the virgin to Emmanuel is clearly expressed in the inspired words; the same indicate also the identity of Emmanuel with the Christ. The connection of Emmanuel with the extraordinary Divine sign which was to be given to Achaz predisposes one to see in the child more than a common boy. In 8:8, the prophet ascribes to him the ownership of the land of Juda: "the stretching out of his wings shall fill the breadth of thy land, O Emmanuel". In 9:6, the government of the house of David is said to be upon his shoulders, and he is described as being endowed with more than human qualities: "a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, and the government is upon his shoulders, and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, God the Mighty, the Father of the World to Come, and the Prince of Peace". Finally, the prophet calls Emmanuel "a rod out of the root of Jesse" endowed with "the spirit of the Lord. . .the spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the spirit of counsel, and of fortitude, the spirit of knowledge and of godliness"; his advent shall be followed by the general signs of the Messianic era, and the remnant of the chosen people shall be again the people of God (11:1-16). Whatever obscurity or ambiguity there may be in the prophetic text itself is removed by St. Matthew (1:18-25). After narrating the doubt of St. Joseph and the angel's assurance, "that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost", the Evangelist proceeds: "now all this was done that it might be fulfilled which the Lord spoke by the prophet, saying: Behold a virgin shall be with child, and bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel." We need not repeat the exposition of the passage given by Catholic commentators who answer the exceptions raised against the obvious meaning of the Evangelist. We may infer from all this that Mary is mentioned in the prophecy of Isaias as mother of Jesus Christ; in the light of St. Matthew's reference to the prophecy, we may add that the prophecy predicted also Mary's virginity untarnished by the conception of the Emmanuel to be Cont…May GOD BLESS ALLAMENFROM WATT
     
  5. Red_Letters88

    Red_Letters88 New Member

    Messages:
    390
    Likes Received:
    0
    MARY WAS NOT THE MOTHER OF GOD! Mary was the mother to the flesh and bones that Christ took on to save ALL. Mary needed salvation and she definitely was not the mother to the I AM.
     
  6. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

    Messages:
    4,886
    Likes Received:
    4
    (Red_Letters88;53700)
    MARY WAS NOT THE MOTHER OF GOD! Mary was the mother to the flesh and bones that Christ took on to save ALL. Mary needed salvation and she definitely was not the mother to the I AM.
    Good point which I agree with you. Mary was the mother of a flesh Christ, but not the mother of our Creator who existed before us.
     
  7. treeoflife

    treeoflife New Member

    Messages:
    601
    Likes Received:
    0
    There are two things people have a tendency to do with Mary.1. They over-esteem her, making her WAY more imporant and giving her way more power than God ever intended.2. They under-esteem her, and play her off as insignificant at all.You are, as are many deeply dogmatic Catholics, guilty of #1. Mary was indeed blessed among women. We are told this. However, she is certainly not God's mother, or the queen of heaven. This is denominational brainwashing that teeters on pagan and idolatrous worship.
    Isaiah 42:8-11:I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. Isaiah 48:11I will rescue you for my sake—yes, for my own sake!I will not let my reputation be tarnished, and I will not share my glory with idols! ​
    God is very serious about not having His glory shared. Many are guilty of misdirecting glory to a false idol, in Mary, something I am sure not only Jesus (obviously) but Mary herself would be very sad to see.
     
  8. Alpha and Omega

    Alpha and Omega New Member

    Messages:
    250
    Likes Received:
    0
    Isaiah 2:8 8 Their land also is full of idols; they worship the work of their own hands, that which their own fingers have made:Exodus 20:4-26 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;Mat 6:7But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.Vain repetitions = RosaryHeathen = in the NT savouring of the nature of pagans, alien to the worship of the true God, heathenisha) of the pagan
     
  9. watt

    watt New Member

    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    0
    IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER AND OF THE SON AND OF THE HOLY SPIRITHere I AM again to share with you all THE TRUTH OF GOD LOVE.(Alpha and Omega;53697)
    This has nothing to do with Mary. This verse is right after Satan tempts Eve and has sexual intercourse with her. Cain is Satan's son while Abel is Adams. They were twins. [This verse is God talking to Satan there is not prophecy here.COLOR="Blue]Please.. pray before you read my post, this is not my own work but inspired by THE HOLY SPIRIT[/COLOR]http://www.christianityboard.com/true-sin-...study-t509.htmlI have a question Watt,Why do people worship/pray to Mary?
    This is common question..there are million people outside there did not know WHAT IS THE KINGDOM OF GODand thy will come out with this kind of question.Well...we did not worship THE VIRGIN MARY. AS THE MIGHTY GOD LOOK KINDLY UPON HER AND CHOSEN HER TO BE THE MOTHER OF THE SON OF GOD AND ALSO OUR MOTHER .. SO WE TOO RESPECT HER AND LOOK KINDLY UPON HER FOR SHE IS FULL OF GRACE. WHY WE PRAY TO HER... ACTUALLY MOST CHRISTIAN HAVE NARROW MINDED ABOUT THE TERM "PRAY".THE TRUTH IS HERE ;-JESUS IS GOD, HE IS THE EMMANUEL MEAN GOD-WITH -US. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT TO ALL CHRISTIAN... DONT CONFESS ON OUR LIP ONLY THAT "GOD-WITH-US"... BUT LET THE SPIRIT LEAD US TO THE KINGDOM OF GOD.SEE!! ALL THE NEW HOLY PEOPLE'S WHO WAS WITH JESUS INCLUDING HIS OWN MOTHER, THEY ARE NOT OF THIS WORLD. WHILE JESUS STILL WITH THEM HERE ON EARTH...THEY DID NOT KNOW WHO THEY ARE AND DID NOT REALIZE THAT THEY ARE FROM THE KINGDOM OF GOD.(JOHN 17:16)THIS IS THE WILL OF THE SON OF GOD ;- JESUS SAID TO THE FATHER: "FATHER, SINCE YOU HAVE GIVEN THEM TO ME, I WANT THEM TO BE WITH ME WHERE I AM AND SEE THE GLORY YOU GAVE ME, FOR YOU LOVED ME BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD"(JOHN 17:24) SEE!!! JESUS WANT ALL OF US TO SHARE HIS GLORY IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD WITH ALL HIS ANGEL, HIS SAINTS AND WITH THE FATHER, SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT... NOW!!! ON EARTH AS IN HEAVEN. THAT WHY JESUS TEACH US "THE LORD PRAYER" WHERE HE SAID "OUR FATHER IN HEAVEN, HOLY BE YOUR NAME,YOUR KINGDOM COME AND YOUR WILL BE DONE ON EARTH AS IN HEAVEN"WE MUST FULFILL "THE WILL" OF JESUS AND THE WILL OF THE FATHER.AS CHILDREN OF GOD.. WE ARE ONE FAMILY IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD SHARING HIS GLORY WITH ALL THE SAINTS AND THE NEW HOLY PEOPLE.WE MUST COMMUNICATE DIRECT WITH ALL THOSE IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD. FOR THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS SPIRIT AND ETERNAL... HERE, IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD... THERE IS NO MORE DEATH ANYMORE, NO CRYING, NO PAIN EVER MORE...ALLELUIA!! PRAISE THE LORD!!!HOW WE COMUNICATE WITH THEM?? THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT...HE WILL LEAD US AND TEACH US GOD WISDOM... THIS IS WHAT THE PROPHET ISAIAH SAID IN ISAIAH 7:14 "EMMANUEL" MEAN GOD WITH US.THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT WE DID ALL THIS WHILE.....BUT THE WORLD DID NOT SEE "THE TRUTH".WHY?? BECAUSE "THE FLESH" COVER THEIR SOUL...AS THE RESULT THEIR SOUL BLIND AND SEE NO LIGHT.MAY GOD FORGIVE ALL OUR SINAMENFROM WATT.
     
  10. Alpha and Omega

    Alpha and Omega New Member

    Messages:
    250
    Likes Received:
    0
    That didn't even answer my question. refer to posts 7 and 8 about Mary worship,
     
  11. Elias

    Elias New Member

    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    0
    Our Holy Mother Mary! With the Words of Greeting of the Angel Saint Gabriel, we bow to You in solemn salutation saying, “Hail, O Favoured One!” You are Virgin both in soul and in body. Because of Your perfect chastity, You became the Mother of the Almighty God. And so, You deserve such glorious salutation. Your womb bore the Holy Adam who is the Sacred Fruit of the Tree of Life. Hence, You are the Holy Eve, the Chosen and the Blessed One among all the women. In the early times, the Prophets spoke of You as “Ethiopia stretches out Her Hands to God”, and we addressed you as ‘Our Mother Zion’. Rejoice, O Our Queen in Heavens and on Earth! God, through Your instrumentality fulfilled His promise of our Salvation and granted His Eternal Covenant of Mercy to His Creation. And so, we always praise You saying. “You are the Blessed, full of Grace.” In the Words of Jesus Christ, our Saviour, Priest and King, we are Your children, committed to Your Maternal guardianship; and You are our Holy Mother, entrusted to our spiritual dedication. Thus, we believe Your Motherhood that has never forsaken Your beloved Son will always be with us. We thank Our Gracious Father, God the Most High, for His Benevolence of such magnitude. World without end, Amen.
     
  12. Alpha and Omega

    Alpha and Omega New Member

    Messages:
    250
    Likes Received:
    0
    (Elias;53712)
    Our Holy Mother Mary! With the Words of Greeting of the Angel Saint Gabriel, we bow to You in solemn salutation saying, “Hail, O Favoured One!” You are Virgin both in soul and in body.
    Exodus 20:4-26 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;(Elias;53712)
    Because of Your perfect chastity, You became the Mother of the Almighty God.
    Romans 3:10-31 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.This includes Mary(Elias;53712)
    And so, You deserve such glorious salutation.
    Isaiah 42:88 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images
     
  13. watt

    watt New Member

    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    0
    IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER AND OF THE SON AND OF THE HOLY SPIRITHere I AM again to share with you all THE TRUTH OF GOD LOVE.(Alpha and Omega;53711)
    That didn't even answer my question. refer to posts 7 and 8 about Mary worship,
    I DID ANSWER YOU...THIS IS THE WILL OF THE SON OF GOD ;- JESUS SAID TO THE FATHER: "FATHER, SINCE YOU HAVE GIVEN THEM TO ME, I WANT THEM TO BE WITH ME WHERE I AM AND SEE THE GLORY YOU GAVE ME, FOR YOU LOVED ME BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD" (JOHN 17:24)I KNOWN YOU DONT UNDERSTAND WHAT IS PRAYER. ESPECIALLY IN THE ABOVE VERSE.WELL..HERE JESUS WANT US TO BE UNITED IN HIS KINGDOM, SHARING HIS GLORY.THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS SPIRIT AND ETERNAL. THOSE WHO ARE NOT BORN AGAIN WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND THIS VERSE(JOHN 17:24).WE ARE NOW ON EARTH..OK. ALL OVER THE EARTH IS CORRUPTED DUE TO ADAM AND EVE ORIGINAL SIN. BUT IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD EVERYTHING IS PERFECT AND SPIRIT AND ETERNAL.HOW TO BE UNITE WITH JESUS?? FIRST WE MUST BE BORN AGAIN OF WATER AND SPIRIT. WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT WE ARE ABLE TO COMMUNICATE WITH GOD THE FATHER,THESON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT AND ALL THE PEOPLE IN HIS KINGDOM IN HEAVEN.WHEN WE COMMUNICATE WITH THEM THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT... THAT IS CALL "PRAYER". WE ARE FREE TO COMMUNICATE WITH ALL THE HOLY PEOPLE'S IN HEAVEN AND WE ARE ONE IN GOD FAMILY....NOW ON EARTH AND FOREVER, FOR JESUS IS WITH US TO THE END OF THE WORLD.MAY GOD BLESSAMENFROM WATT
     
  14. Elias

    Elias New Member

    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    0
    The reverence of the Virgin appears in the salutation of the archangel Gabriel to her: "Peace to you, O you full of grace, "the Lord is with you; blessed are you among women" (Luke 1:28). That is, with a special blessing, to which also saint Elisabeth gave testimony. "Then she spoke out with a loud voice and said, "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb" (Luke 1:42).
     
  15. watt

    watt New Member

    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    0
    IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER AND OF THE SON AND OF THE HOLY SPIRITHERE I AM AGAIN TO SHARE THE TRUTH OF GOD LOVE(Elias;53716)
    The reverence of the Virgin appears in the salutation of the archangel Gabriel to her: "Peace to you, O you full of grace, "the Lord is with you; blessed are you among women" (Luke 1:28). That is, with a special blessing, to which also saint Elisabeth gave testimony. "Then she spoke out with a loud voice and said, "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb" (Luke 1:42).
    PRAISE THE LORD!! AND LET ALL THE PRAISE GOES TO THE GLORY OF GOD.Ephesians 4:1-6I, therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, entreat you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called, with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing forbearance to one another in love, being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all. MAY GOD BLESSAMENFROM WATT
     
  16. winsome

    winsome New Member

    Messages:
    180
    Likes Received:
    0
    Pray.The word pray has several meanings and is much wider than just addressing God. In the NT several different Greek words are used with different shades of meaning. But we translate them all as pray.c.1290, "ask earnestly, beg," also "pray to a god or saint," from O.Fr. preier (c.900), from L. precari "ask earnestly, beg," from *prex (plural preces, gen. precis) "prayer, request, entreaty," from PIE base *prek- "to ask, request, entreat" (cf. Skt. prasna-, Avestan frashna- "question;" O.C.S. prositi, Lith. prasyti "to ask, beg;" O.H.G. frahen, Ger. fragen, O.E. fricgan "to ask" a question). Prayer (c.1300) is from O.Fr. preiere, from V.L. *precaria, noun use of L. precaria, fem. of adj. precarius "obtained by prayer," from precari. (from the Online Entymology Dictionary)So one meaning of pray is to ask earnestly or beg. If you read old English plays you will find phrases such as “prithee sir” (pray you sir) or “where are you going I pray” Some Christians try to narrow the word pray to mean only addressing God. But we can ask earnestly anyone. If we pray to Mary, we are only addressing her and earnestly asking her for her intercession.A couple of quotes from the great English writer Jane Austin“But pray, Colonel, how came you to conjure out that I should be in town today?” (Mrs Jennings to Colonel Brandon in Sense and Sensibility)"Oh! cousin, stop a moment, pray stop!" (Fanny Price to Edmund in Mansfield Park)Take the most common prayer addressed to MaryHail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee; blessed are thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.What is the problem?Hail Mary, full of grace, The Lord is with thee (from Lk 1:28)Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. (from Lk 1:42)Holy Mary, (she is holy)Mother of God (a correct title)Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen (request for her intercession)
     
  17. winsome

    winsome New Member

    Messages:
    180
    Likes Received:
    0
    Mary The Mother of GodJesus is God and as Mary is the mother of Jesus, she is the Mother of God. This does not mean she is older than God, or that she is the source of her Son’s divinity. She is the Mother of God in that she carried in her womb, and gave birth to, a divine person – Jesus Christ, God “in the flesh” (2 Jn 7 & Jn 1:14). This has been acknowledged by Christians since early times until very recently. Even Luther and Calvin both insisted on Mary’s divine maternity.There was a heresy in the fifth century called Nestorianism which said that Mary did not carry God but only carried Christ’s human nature in her womb. But a woman carries a person in her womb, not just a human nature. Mary carried, and gave birth to, the person of Jesus Christ, and that person was God, the second person of the Trinity.Nestorians claimed that Mary did not give birth to a unified person but tried to separate Jesus’ human nature from his divine nature, creating two separate persons, one human and one divine in a loose affiliation. The early Church Fathers recognised Mary as the Mother of God. Here are a few quotes from them:"The Virgin Mary, being obedient to his word, received from an angel the glad tidings that she would bear God" (Iranaeus - Against Heresies, 5:19:1 [A.D. 189])."[T]o all generations they [the prophets] have pictured forth the grandest subjects for contemplation and for action. Thus, too, they preached of the advent of God in the flesh to the world, his advent by the spotless and God-bearing (theotokos) Mary in the way of birth and growth, and the manner of his life and conversation with men, and his manifestation by baptism, and the new birth that was to be to all men, and the regeneration by the laver [of baptism]" (Hippolytus - Discourse on the End of the World 1 [A.D. 217])."While the old man [Simeon] was thus exultant, and rejoicing with exceeding great and holy joy, that which had before been spoken of in a figure by the prophet Isaiah, the holy Mother of God now manifestly fulfilled" (Methodius - Oration on Simeon and Anna 7 [A.D. 305])."We acknowledge the resurrection of the dead, of which Jesus Christ our Lord became the firstling; he bore a body not in appearance but in truth derived from Mary the Mother of God" (Peter of Jerusalem - Letter to All Non-Egyptian Bishops 12 [A.D. 324]).
     
  18. winsome

    winsome New Member

    Messages:
    180
    Likes Received:
    0
    (treeoflife;53705)
    Isaiah 42:8-11:I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. God is very serious about not having His glory shared. Many are guilty of misdirecting glory to a false idol, in Mary, something I am sure not only Jesus (obviously) but Mary herself would be very sad to see.
    Psalm 8:4-5what are human beings that you are mindful of them,mortals that you care for them?Yet you have made them a little lower than God,and crowned them with glory and honor.Proverbs 14:28The glory of a king is a multitude of people;without people a prince is ruined.Isaiah 17:3-4The fortress will disappear from Ephraim,and the kingdom from Damascus;and the remnant of Aram will belike the glory of the children of Israel,says the LORD of hosts.On that daythe glory of Jacob will be brought low,and the fat of his flesh will grow lean.Daniel 5:18O king, the Most High God gave your father Nebuchadnezzar kingship, greatness, glory, and majesty.
     
  19. winsome

    winsome New Member

    Messages:
    180
    Likes Received:
    0
    (Alpha and Omega;53706)
    Mat 6:7But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.Vain repetitions = RosaryHeathen = in the NT savouring of the nature of pagans, alien to the worship of the true God, heathenisha) of the pagan
    Rosary = vain repetitionAre you saying that quoting scripture and contemplating the life of Christ is vain?
     
  20. winsome

    winsome New Member

    Messages:
    180
    Likes Received:
    0
    (treeoflife;53705)
    You are, as are many deeply dogmatic Catholics, guilty of #1.
    What is a deeply dogmatic Catholic? I've not heard that phrase before.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...