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Which of the four can this verse be used for, if not doctrine? I say to you verily that 1, 2, 3, and 4 are synonymous.
BreadOfLife
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The Blood of Christ, rather, the grace that comes from it is what saves us and keeps us saved.
HOWEVER, this requires our cooperation with that grace. Without our cooperation - we cannot hope to be saved.
You can cherry-pick a verse here and there about not losing your security - but in the CONTEXT of Scripture - this is a false message.
The Bible is FILLED with warnings to truly converted, born-again people NOT to fall back into darkness and LOSE their security.
This "Once Saved Always Saved" nonsense is a 16th century invention - not a Biblical truth.
Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”
Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had?
Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek word for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida/gnosis). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.
2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.
Matt. 5:13
You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
This one is self-explanatory - even to a Biblically-ignorant person . . .
1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
Paul is saying that he wrestles with his own fleshly desires so that he might not fall back into sin.
2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
Peter is warning the faithful not to fall back into sin and lawlessness and LOSE their security.
1 John 2:24
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will REMAIN in the Son and in the Father.
This is an admonition to try to remain faithful.
Rev. 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
God cannot blot out a name that was never there in the first place. He is talking about CHRISTIANS who are already saved and how they can LOSE their salvation.
Rev. 22:19
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
How can God “take away” somebody’s “share” of heaven if they never had it to begin with? This is about CHRISTIANS who may or may NOT make it into Heaven.
Rom 5:1, Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 5:2, By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Rom 4:1, What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
Rom 4:2, For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Rom 4:3, For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:4, Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5, But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:6, Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Rom 4:7, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Rom 4:8, Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
These passages teach us that we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; and that this standing in righteousness is not based upon our performance. He "justifieth the ungodly" (Romans 4:5); and he does so because of faith in the heart of the person who is justified.
Most assuredly, being redeemed by faith will result in a changed life (2 Corinthians 5:17 (kjv)).
However, the salvation given is not based on you changing your life in order to obtain the salvation that the Lord wants to give you. Jesus catches the fish, and then He cleans them. He "justifieth the ungodly" (Romans 4:5). We are declared righteous because of faith alone; it has nothing to do with our performance. If we believe, our faith is counted for righteousness.
So then, since salvation is not based on performance, it cannot be lost because of failing in our performance.
It can only be lost because of losing faith in Jesus Christ.
And I will say that in Hebrews 3:12-13, we do find that sin is deceitful and has the power to harden us against the Lord, so that if we recklessly indulge in a sinful lifestyle, we might even lose our faith and thus our salvation.
But anyone who cleaves to Jesus (Acts of the Apostles 11:23) as an anchor of the soul (Hebrews 6:18-20) cannot lose their salvation impaho. It is only those who do not care about their salvation and who bank on OSAS doctrine and utilize that doctrine as a license for immorality, who can fall away.
Because real eternal security has to do with abiding in Christ. It is promised that the one who does the will of God abides for ever (1 John 2:17). That terminology, "for ever" is good enough for me...and it denotes the doctrine of POTS rather than OSAS. For I subscribe to the first rather than the second.
POTS (perseverance of the saints) denotes that the people involved are saints in the practical sense and that they will persevere in faith.
Whereas OSAS denotes that you can say a "sinner's prayer" and live like hell afterwards and still go to heaven.
The former is sound doctrine and encouraging to those who seek to follow the Lord.
The latter is, frankly, heresy.
Rom 5:2, By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Rom 4:1, What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
Rom 4:2, For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Rom 4:3, For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:4, Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5, But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:6, Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Rom 4:7, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Rom 4:8, Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
These passages teach us that we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; and that this standing in righteousness is not based upon our performance. He "justifieth the ungodly" (Romans 4:5); and he does so because of faith in the heart of the person who is justified.
Most assuredly, being redeemed by faith will result in a changed life (2 Corinthians 5:17 (kjv)).
However, the salvation given is not based on you changing your life in order to obtain the salvation that the Lord wants to give you. Jesus catches the fish, and then He cleans them. He "justifieth the ungodly" (Romans 4:5). We are declared righteous because of faith alone; it has nothing to do with our performance. If we believe, our faith is counted for righteousness.
So then, since salvation is not based on performance, it cannot be lost because of failing in our performance.
It can only be lost because of losing faith in Jesus Christ.
And I will say that in Hebrews 3:12-13, we do find that sin is deceitful and has the power to harden us against the Lord, so that if we recklessly indulge in a sinful lifestyle, we might even lose our faith and thus our salvation.
But anyone who cleaves to Jesus (Acts of the Apostles 11:23) as an anchor of the soul (Hebrews 6:18-20) cannot lose their salvation impaho. It is only those who do not care about their salvation and who bank on OSAS doctrine and utilize that doctrine as a license for immorality, who can fall away.
Because real eternal security has to do with abiding in Christ. It is promised that the one who does the will of God abides for ever (1 John 2:17). That terminology, "for ever" is good enough for me...and it denotes the doctrine of POTS rather than OSAS. For I subscribe to the first rather than the second.
POTS (perseverance of the saints) denotes that the people involved are saints in the practical sense and that they will persevere in faith.
Whereas OSAS denotes that you can say a "sinner's prayer" and live like hell afterwards and still go to heaven.
The former is sound doctrine and encouraging to those who seek to follow the Lord.
The latter is, frankly, heresy.
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There is a member here, justbyfaith,.. who can't keep himself from teaching deception.
He will teach that you are saved by Grace, then he will contradict this Grace and deny it, by adding to God's Grace, some self effort to stay saved.
If you do this, you are also deceived and are teaching the gospel of works, in place of the Gift of Salvation.
Be careful, as Galatians 1:8 is not a myth or a joke.
You dont want to be that person.
The scripture "Jesus Wept", is given for correction?
You have no idea what you are doing here.
BreadOfLife
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That's what I expected your answer to be.
I didn't think you'd be able to refute the Scriptural evidence I presented that destroys your position . . .
I can't imagine how this would describe someone who has been born from above.
Much love!
It depends on what is being spoken.
You can be sure that the Lord is aware of every heresy that will ever develop.
And even the scripture in question, will very likely be useful in dealing with such heresies that are foreknown by the Lord.
For example, someone might come up with the heresy that God is not a Person. After determining that Jesus is God, understanding that He wept may indeed be a good way of showing that He was and is indeed a Person. That would be a correction of false doctrine.
There is a person here, @Behold, who teaches that we have no indwelling sin in contradiction to 1 John 1:8. In doing so, he is deceiving himself and the truth is not in him. Beware of him, he is a false teacher.
As for me, I do touch on the law of the Lord and I do so as a true evangelist, utilizing the law as a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ; and this can be misunderstood.
Also, it should be clear that the anointing of the Holy Spirit teaches us to abide in Christ (1 John 2:27-28). You do not need me or @Behold to teach you; if you are going to avoid my teaching then also avoid @Behold's teaching and simply stay in the word of the Lord (the Bible). This is my encouragement to you. You can't go wrong if you stay in the word. If you must get information from message boards, in fact, I would say that you must be a Berean (Acts of the Apostles 17:10-11); as there are many false teachers out there.
1Jo 2:27, But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
1Jo 2:28, And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
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The point is that they think that they are saved and that they cannot lose their salvation.
I'm confused then, are you speaking of someone who is reborn/regenerated, or someone who is not, but may think think or pretend they are?
Much love!
Heb 4:12, For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
The word will say to the person who believes that they are saved and cannot fall away, that they can indeed fall away if they are not cleaving to the Lord.
The word will say to the one who is struggling with their faith, and who doubts their salvation, but is clinging to the Lord, that he is able to keep them by His power if they rely on and trust in Him.
Whether the person is truly saved or not is not the issue. Only God knows if the person in question is saved or not (in the sense of being God's elect). If someone is trusting in OSAS doctrine and then living like hell, suffice it to say that I do not believe that the scriptures give them the assurance that they think they have.
So I still don't understand, are you talking about the regenerate, or the unregenerate?
I would say that is the only issue, really. Why wouldn't it be?
Or do you mean that we can never be certain?
Here is a scenario for you.
A person believes that they are saved according to John 5:24 (kjv), but gets left behind and has to go through the Great Trib.
If they take the mark, but still are banking on John 5:24 as their salvation verse, are they still saved by the principle of that verse?
Suppose that they believed that they had eternal life according to 1 John 5:13; in fact said that they "know that they know that they know" that they have it.
If they take the mark, do they still have eternal life? Zoe I mean. The eternal, abundant life that Jesus offers.
A person believes that they are saved according to John 5:24 (kjv), but gets left behind and has to go through the Great Trib.
If they take the mark, but still are banking on John 5:24 as their salvation verse, are they still saved by the principle of that verse?
Suppose that they believed that they had eternal life according to 1 John 5:13; in fact said that they "know that they know that they know" that they have it.
If they take the mark, do they still have eternal life? Zoe I mean. The eternal, abundant life that Jesus offers.
The main factor in all of this is whether you believe you are saved. You may think that you are saved, and yet may not be.
So, we can only go by what we think.
If I think I am saved and am not (because my faith is merely nominal, lukewarm, or shallow), it is beneficial to understand that if I begin to show forth that I am not saved, by my behaviour, I am not saved. But if I believe that I was saved and could not lose my salvation, there is a hindrance to that.
Now I am not saved by my behaviour. But if my behaviour begins to show forth that I am not saved, I need to question as to whether I am truly saved, 2 Corinthians 13:5.
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