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Davy
Well-Known Member
That really is an ignorant reply and proves that you really don't understand those Rev.4 & 5 Scriptures.
Davy
Well-Known Member
But Enoch111 is correct on that point that The Godhead is made up of Three Persons. It is shown in many Bible Scriptures, including the Old Testament. In 1 Corinthians 15:23-28, a popular Chapter here lately, Paul reveals The Father is excepted in Christ's future reign until all enemies are made His footstool. When that is over, then Paul points to the full Godhead manifesting. And in John 17, who was our Lord Jesus praying to if not to The Father in Heaven?
Davy
Well-Known Member
Here's a funny note about men's traditions on the Revelation 4 and 5 Chapters.
Those on a Pre-trib Rapture theory treat those Rev.4 & 5 Chapters as a type of proof that the Church is then raptured to Heaven prior to the rest of the events in Revelation, like the tribulation events.
The reality is that ANY TIME when the REWARDS to Christ's servants are shown handed out, that can ONLY mean a time AFTER Jesus has returned and is reigning with His elect of the 1st resurrection. In other words, it means the END of this present world had already come, the beast destroyed, the tribulation over, Satan locked in his pit prison for the Rev.20 "thousand years".
But many of God's people get wrapped up in traditions and what is POPULAR, not really paying attention to what the actual Scripture is revealing, and those people often go on further tangents outside God's Word to create doctrines that bring in the money! Our Lord Jesus called those hirelings, those who will run when the wolf creeps into the Church. Those do it as a business, not for a love of Christ's sheep.
Those on a Pre-trib Rapture theory treat those Rev.4 & 5 Chapters as a type of proof that the Church is then raptured to Heaven prior to the rest of the events in Revelation, like the tribulation events.
The reality is that ANY TIME when the REWARDS to Christ's servants are shown handed out, that can ONLY mean a time AFTER Jesus has returned and is reigning with His elect of the 1st resurrection. In other words, it means the END of this present world had already come, the beast destroyed, the tribulation over, Satan locked in his pit prison for the Rev.20 "thousand years".
But many of God's people get wrapped up in traditions and what is POPULAR, not really paying attention to what the actual Scripture is revealing, and those people often go on further tangents outside God's Word to create doctrines that bring in the money! Our Lord Jesus called those hirelings, those who will run when the wolf creeps into the Church. Those do it as a business, not for a love of Christ's sheep.
did you read post #390 about 1 Corinthians 15? guess not. and as for John 17 you need to read verse 3.
PICJAG.
the full Godhead manifesting? tell us who this is? Revelation 22:2 "In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
Revelation 22:3 "And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him"
Revelation 22:4 "And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
for his name in our foreheads, see Revelation 3:12
PICJAG.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Even with that verse... you cannot discern the tense of two Persons being spoken of in it.
John 17:3
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know Thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, Whom Thou hast sent.
KJV
Jesus showed The Father sent Him. Jesus didn't send Himself. Yet Jesus claimed to be a part of The Godhead with including Himself in the "the only true God, and Jesus Christ". That is the separate Persons in The Godhead that Enoch111 was talking about.
Obviously, many Scriptures are closed off to your understanding, and that's why I say you aren't to be trusted in God's Word.
Smile, lol, it's you who cannot discren the "diversity" of GOD which is diaplayed before your very eyes all the day long. for our Lord is correct, Isaiah 65:1 "I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name.
Isaiah 65:2 "I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts;
Isaiah 48:16 "Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me".
ok Davey, who was sent? .... (smile).
PICJAG.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Yes, the full Godhead returning, that was what Paul was referring to...
1 Cor 15:27-28
27 For He (The Father) hath put all things under His (Christ) feet. But when He (The Father) saith, all things are put under Him (Christ), it is manifest that He (The Father) is excepted, Which did put all things under Him (Christ).
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto Him (Christ), then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him (The Father) that put all things under Him (Christ), that God may be all in all.
KJV
1 Cor 12:6
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
KJV
Eph 1:17-23
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of His calling, and what the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of His power to usward who believe, according to the working of His mighty power,
20 Which He wrought in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead, and set Him at His Own right hand in the heavenly places,
21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22 And hath put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be the head over all things to the church,
23 Which is His body, the fulness of Him That filleth all in all.
KJV
Davy
Well-Known Member
If you don't understand the Persons in The Godhead, then you will never understand this...
Rev 21:22
22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
KJV
Rev 22:1
22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
KJV
Rev 21:22
22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
KJV
Rev 22:1
22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
KJV
Jesus is the Lamb and the Almighty see revelation 1:8, and Revelation 5
now isaiah 48:16
PICJAG.
Davy
Well-Known Member
In both Old and New Testament Scripture, Jesus Christ is shown with a separate operation than The Father, even in Heaven...
Luke 20:41-44
41 And He said unto them, 'How say they that Christ is David's son?
42 And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, "The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on My right hand,
43 Till I make thine enemies thy footstool."
44 David therefore calleth Him Lord, how is He then his son?
KJV
Luke 20:41-44
41 And He said unto them, 'How say they that Christ is David's son?
42 And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, "The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on My right hand,
43 Till I make thine enemies thy footstool."
44 David therefore calleth Him Lord, how is He then his son?
KJV
ERROR, the son is the "diversity" of the Same one Spirit, as in Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his".
now Davey is this two separate Spirit? yes or no
after you answer that then please answer Isaiah 48:16.
PICJAG.
Let me say something here. what looks like three person is not. we walk by faith and not by sight. to one's NATURAL mind and eyes, it seem or appears to be three, no, it's not. God who is a Spirit is ONE Spirit. the Titles of Father is the Spirit natural state without flesh, and Son is the Shared state with flesh. same Spirit only "diversified". for the bible tells us the truth. Jesus the Holy Spirit is the only person in the Godhead. his plurality is found in the term "Son" which is the EQUAL Share of himself in flesh. the term "Son" here is not biological, it's only a signification of the Holy Spirit shared in flesh. that's all. simple.
supportive scripture, Hosea 12:10 "I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets". question, who spoke by the prophets? let the bible speak, 1 Peter 1:10 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow".
yes, that same Spirit of christ in Romans 8:9. the Holy Spirit that spoke to the prophet of old. 2 Peter 1:21 "For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost".
yes, the Spirit of christ is the Holy Ghost.
PICJAG.
supportive scripture, Hosea 12:10 "I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets". question, who spoke by the prophets? let the bible speak, 1 Peter 1:10 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow".
yes, that same Spirit of christ in Romans 8:9. the Holy Spirit that spoke to the prophet of old. 2 Peter 1:21 "For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost".
yes, the Spirit of christ is the Holy Ghost.
PICJAG.
GINOLJC, to all.
finishing up chapter 4.
Revelation 4:9 "And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever”,
Another indicator as to who sits on the throne. Only “ONE” person sits on the throne. Question, who lives forever and ever? Answer, 1 Timothy 6:14-16 "That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: verse 15 "Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; verse 16 "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen”. it is the Lord Jesus Christ who only have life eternal. He is the Father without flesh and bone, and he is the Son “diversified” in flesh and bone, better known as the “offspring". now in a glorified state with flesh and bone, but without blood, (John chapter 17).
1 Timothy 6:15a states, “ "Who only hath immortality”, Houston we have a problem, a big one. if he,the Lord Jesus, who sits on the throne is the “ONLY” one who has immortality, meaning eternal life, where do that leave the other two so called distinct and separate “PERSON” in the Godhead? THINK, if Jesus, is the ONLY “one” who have eternal life and one say he is separate and distinct from the other persons now you have a big problem. Either the other two separate and distinct person are impostors made up by men, or the other two suppose person are not separate and distinct person as one have been taught. Think on that for a minute.
So all and every creature must give “glory”, and “honour” unto him that sits on the throne, and than include man. scripture, Philippians 2:10 "That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth”. verse 11 "And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.” many will say, "see 101G there is the Father, and he's separate and distinct from the son". ok, lets see if that is true or not. it says at the “NAME” of JESUS, but to the glory of God the Father. is this the Son, and the Father, two separate and distinct persons? Lets see. Isaiah 45:23 "I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear”. Here, in Isaiah 45:23, it is the LORD, (the Father), the God of the OT speaking, that “every knee shall bow, and every tongue swear to who? Him, (the Father). But Philippians 2:10 & 11 says it will be to JESUS, the Lord. so is someone lying? is the bible off course? No of course not, the Lord Jesus is the Offspring of his own self. One more time, Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me”. (WAIT, HOLD THE PRESS, his who? Yes, God’s own ARM is a “WHO”. supportive scripture, Isaiah 53:1 "Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
Isaiah 53:2 "For he, (God the Father "OWN" ARM), shall grow up before him, (God the Father), as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he, (God the Father "OWN" ARM), hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, God the Father "OWN" ARM), there is no beauty that we should desire him. (HOLD IT, “he”. God’s has a own ARM of his that is a “he?” yes, here’s that plurality of GOD we been declaring over and over. I will give a little more detail of this plurality of GOD when we get to chapter 5 next.
So the one on the Throne is the Lord Jesus the Son.
Revelation 4:10 & 11 "The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, 11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created”.
All power is given to him, JESUS, after his resurrection, and upon his ascension into heaven. as a Son over his own house he by right inherit all thing, Why? Because he “CREATED” and “MADE” all things. Supportive scripture, John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made”. this is the Son, the WORD of God, who is God, (John 1:1c). Now this, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; (BINGO, the LORD here is JESUS without flesh, the Father), that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself”. (HOLD IT, STOP THE PRESS), he, JESUS, created and made everything “by himself", and he was "alone?" So where were the other two so-called persons? Answer, there is no one else. He said he was “ALONE”. if there was someone else, then he wouldn’t be “ALONE”, or "by himself". For if there was someone else then the scriptures would have said that. but we'll get to that in chapter 5.
Now the powers and principalities of the Lord Jesus
Colossians 1:16 "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
As the elders “cast” their crowns before the throne, signifying that he has all power, in heaven and earth. as said, the terminology, “before the throne”, signify on earth. By casting their crown before the throne, a crown symbolize “authority”, he Jesus has all power ....... Authority, as well as the Might to back up the authority. All power in the Greek means a. G1849, exousia, (AUTHORITY) and b. G1411, dunamis, (MIGHT). For the scripture states, Romans 13:1 "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God". (One need to re-read that verse)
Romans 13:2 "Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation". (WOW).
Conclusion: this is the warning of God’s Judgment against all men who resist the POWER, (the authority and the might), of almighty God. Everything, and everyone must come into subjection unto the Lord Jesus. Scripture, 2 Chronicles 7:14 "If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. Verse 15 "Now mine eyes shall be open, and mine ears attent unto the prayer that is made in this place”. this revealing of Christ is for our benefit. And one of the benefits of this chapter of revelation here is this, Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: (Uh O, read that again), seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children”. This is why one of the elder spoke to John, (chapter 5), which is exactly to give God people confident and assurance of God Justice to the righteous and to the wicked. the righteous need not to be ashamed, nor afraid, but be bold in the Lord and in the "POWER" of his "MIGHT". Ephesians 6:10-12 "Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. verse 11 "Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. verse 12 "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places".
Next time chapter 5.
PICJAG.
finishing up chapter 4.
Revelation 4:9 "And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever”,
Another indicator as to who sits on the throne. Only “ONE” person sits on the throne. Question, who lives forever and ever? Answer, 1 Timothy 6:14-16 "That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: verse 15 "Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; verse 16 "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen”. it is the Lord Jesus Christ who only have life eternal. He is the Father without flesh and bone, and he is the Son “diversified” in flesh and bone, better known as the “offspring". now in a glorified state with flesh and bone, but without blood, (John chapter 17).
1 Timothy 6:15a states, “ "Who only hath immortality”, Houston we have a problem, a big one. if he,the Lord Jesus, who sits on the throne is the “ONLY” one who has immortality, meaning eternal life, where do that leave the other two so called distinct and separate “PERSON” in the Godhead? THINK, if Jesus, is the ONLY “one” who have eternal life and one say he is separate and distinct from the other persons now you have a big problem. Either the other two separate and distinct person are impostors made up by men, or the other two suppose person are not separate and distinct person as one have been taught. Think on that for a minute.
So all and every creature must give “glory”, and “honour” unto him that sits on the throne, and than include man. scripture, Philippians 2:10 "That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth”. verse 11 "And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.” many will say, "see 101G there is the Father, and he's separate and distinct from the son". ok, lets see if that is true or not. it says at the “NAME” of JESUS, but to the glory of God the Father. is this the Son, and the Father, two separate and distinct persons? Lets see. Isaiah 45:23 "I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear”. Here, in Isaiah 45:23, it is the LORD, (the Father), the God of the OT speaking, that “every knee shall bow, and every tongue swear to who? Him, (the Father). But Philippians 2:10 & 11 says it will be to JESUS, the Lord. so is someone lying? is the bible off course? No of course not, the Lord Jesus is the Offspring of his own self. One more time, Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me”. (WAIT, HOLD THE PRESS, his who? Yes, God’s own ARM is a “WHO”. supportive scripture, Isaiah 53:1 "Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
Isaiah 53:2 "For he, (God the Father "OWN" ARM), shall grow up before him, (God the Father), as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he, (God the Father "OWN" ARM), hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, God the Father "OWN" ARM), there is no beauty that we should desire him. (HOLD IT, “he”. God’s has a own ARM of his that is a “he?” yes, here’s that plurality of GOD we been declaring over and over. I will give a little more detail of this plurality of GOD when we get to chapter 5 next.
So the one on the Throne is the Lord Jesus the Son.
Revelation 4:10 & 11 "The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, 11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created”.
All power is given to him, JESUS, after his resurrection, and upon his ascension into heaven. as a Son over his own house he by right inherit all thing, Why? Because he “CREATED” and “MADE” all things. Supportive scripture, John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made”. this is the Son, the WORD of God, who is God, (John 1:1c). Now this, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; (BINGO, the LORD here is JESUS without flesh, the Father), that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself”. (HOLD IT, STOP THE PRESS), he, JESUS, created and made everything “by himself", and he was "alone?" So where were the other two so-called persons? Answer, there is no one else. He said he was “ALONE”. if there was someone else, then he wouldn’t be “ALONE”, or "by himself". For if there was someone else then the scriptures would have said that. but we'll get to that in chapter 5.
Now the powers and principalities of the Lord Jesus
Colossians 1:16 "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
As the elders “cast” their crowns before the throne, signifying that he has all power, in heaven and earth. as said, the terminology, “before the throne”, signify on earth. By casting their crown before the throne, a crown symbolize “authority”, he Jesus has all power ....... Authority, as well as the Might to back up the authority. All power in the Greek means a. G1849, exousia, (AUTHORITY) and b. G1411, dunamis, (MIGHT). For the scripture states, Romans 13:1 "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God". (One need to re-read that verse)
Romans 13:2 "Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation". (WOW).
Conclusion: this is the warning of God’s Judgment against all men who resist the POWER, (the authority and the might), of almighty God. Everything, and everyone must come into subjection unto the Lord Jesus. Scripture, 2 Chronicles 7:14 "If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. Verse 15 "Now mine eyes shall be open, and mine ears attent unto the prayer that is made in this place”. this revealing of Christ is for our benefit. And one of the benefits of this chapter of revelation here is this, Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: (Uh O, read that again), seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children”. This is why one of the elder spoke to John, (chapter 5), which is exactly to give God people confident and assurance of God Justice to the righteous and to the wicked. the righteous need not to be ashamed, nor afraid, but be bold in the Lord and in the "POWER" of his "MIGHT". Ephesians 6:10-12 "Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. verse 11 "Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. verse 12 "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places".
Next time chapter 5.
PICJAG.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Well, it is Biblical as there is Scripture proof everywhere!
The Father wasn't sent to be born through woman's womb to die on the cross.
Even the following question the blind Pharisees couldn't understand because of their false traditions...
Matt 22:41-45
41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
42 Saying, "What think ye of Christ? whose son is He?" They say unto Him, 'The Son of David.'
43 He saith unto them, "How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
44 'The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on My right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?'
45 If David then call Him Lord, how is He his son?
KJV
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