The Calling of the 144,000

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guysmith

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In the parable of the woman and the manchild, twice we are told that woman goes to "a place" prepared by God where the woman will be protected and fed for the 3 1/2 years of the GT.

Revelation 14: 6And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
14And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

The wilderness is symbolic, however, Zechariah states that Christ Himself is going to protect the inhabitants on Mount Zion in Jerusalem.

Zechariah 14: 1 A day of the LORD is coming when your plunder will be divided among you.
2 I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city.
3 Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights in the day of battle. 4 On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south.

Isaiah confirms this.

Isaiah 31:4 This is what the LORD says to me: "As a lion growls, a great lion over his prey—
and though a whole band of shepherds is called together against him, he is not frightened by their shouts or disturbed by their clamor— so the LORD Almighty will come down to do battle on Mount Zion and on its heights.
5 Like birds hovering overhead, the LORD Almighty will shield Jerusalem; he will shield it and deliver it, he will 'pass over' it and will rescue it."

The prophet Joel confirms that there will be Christian survivors found on Mount Zion in Jerusalem.

Joel 2:32 And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the LORD has said, among the survivors whom the LORD calls.

This is the calling of the 144,000.

Guy
 

guysmith

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Revelation 14
1And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
 

guysmith

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Christ compared the end to "as the days of Noah." In Noah's time is was a flood of water, in the end it will be a flood of persecution from the AC.

Revelation 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

Noah was the survivor back in the days. The 144,000 will be preserved from the future flood of persecution.

Revelation 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

Noah was provided with (instructions to build) the ark. Mount Zion in Jerusalem has been provided as the future ark to ride out the waters known as the persecution of the AC.

Joel 2: 32 And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the LORD has said, among the survivors whom the LORD calls.

Guy
 

01CobraVortech

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I too believe that the 144k are strictly Jews from the tribes of Israel, that are supernaturally sealed during the Tribulation and sent out to preach the gospel to the remaining unbelieving dwellers on earth.
 

jerryjohnson

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I too believe that the 144k are strictly Jews from the tribes of Israel, that are supernaturally sealed during the Tribulation and sent out to preach the gospel to the remaining unbelieving dwellers on earth.


What you are saying here is that all 144k are of the tribe of Judah.

All you need to do is open your Bible to Rev and you will see exactly who the 144,000 are.
 

jerryjohnson

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Sorry, I thought it was UNDERSTOOD that I meant that they are Jews from the 12 tribes.

Obviously, the word “Jew” means something different to you than to me.

Some of the people that call themselves “Jew” are of the Tribe of Judah; some are people that inhabit the land of Judea. The Tribe of Judah is only one of the twelve Tribes of Israel.
 

lizz7711

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A better question would be: Why would Christ tell Christians to flee from Jerusalem, after God (through the OT prophets) has previously stated that HE will "call" a group of "survivors" which HE promises to "defend" on Mount Zion in Jerusalem?

Joel 2:32 And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the LORD has said, among the survivors whom the LORD calls.


Interesting discussion! I believe that Yahweh will gather those "servants of YHWH" (Rev. 7:3) that
1) follow Yahweh's commandments, and 2) remain faithful to Yeshua. (Rev. 14:12)...and they will be gathered as Christina said, from wherever they are...and taken to the Holy City (AFTER it has been destroyed by the enemies by Yahweh's permission--see Ezek 22:20 "...so I will gather you in my anger and in my wrath, and I will put you in and melt you"). There's a good chance that Israel/Jerusalem is "mystery babylon", along with her whoring daughters (i.e. USA, England, etc), (Read Isaiah 1, Ezek 16). God loves Israel (aka his followers, whether Jew or Gentile)...but she/we are prostitutes who have worshipped other gods, denied his Messiah (Jews), profaned his holy name, and the "church" has abandoned his commandments...so there is much judgement to come. Repentance, faith in Yeshua, and turning to Him alone is what will rescue us, not where we are on the planet.

I think it most likely that the 144,000 are those believers scattered around the world who are saved by grace through faith in Yeshua, but who also know that as his followers we are to obey YHWH's commands to demonstrate our love for him...this is a growing movement of people knowing that we need to keep Saturday sabbath (4th commandment of the big 10, replaced by sun worship by the Roman Catholic church), observe the appointed Feasts (these are Yahweh's feasts, not the "jews" feasts), etc. All of His commands are not burdensome, and all can be summed up in the 2 that Yeshua cited, but few realize that to "love God with all of our heart etc..." is to OBEY his commands, not to pick and choose the few commands we deem worthy of obeying.

EVERYONE entering Jerusalem after God has restored it and Yeshua is reigning for 1000 years will enter by one of the 12 gates representing the 12 tribes...so, whether we are "Christian" believers who just don't know that we are actually part of one of the 12 tribes, or whether we are truly "gentile" believers...we'll be assigned to a gate. And as prophesied in the OT, those outside the city will travel there every year for the Feasts. And the temple will be there, carrying out cleansing sacrifices. Why would we be doing any of these things if there were all just "for the Jews" and "done away with"? Clearly, they were not done away with, and Yahweh said there would last forever, and Yeshua said not one iota of the "law" (meaning instructions/statutes) would be done away with UNTIL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS AWAY. I think we best believe our Messiah. :)

Can't wait to be in that restored, beautiful city...but i'll wait for Him to take me there, if I survive the GT.

Bless all of you --I hope to stop by again soon to keep following this discussion! BTW...can't believe there are actually people around here that believe in pre-trib rapture...how is that possible?? As someone mentioned on this thread...it's the wicked that will be taken, and the righteous left here or resurrected to be with Yeshua in his kingdom on earth. The "gathering of the saints" refers to the angels gathering us from the 4 corners of the earth to take us to Jerusalem!! What a ride that will be if we are blessed to be one of those chosen for that honor!

In Yahshua's Name,
Liz
 

revdw76

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The Church of Jesus Christ won't BE HERE to need protecting. We are snatched away before the 70th week begins. But, those left behind, and/or new beleivers must face the days of great tribulation. Most will be put to death. It is written that the beast overcomes them.

Coop


WRONG!!! tHOSE OF US WHO ARE IN CHRIST WILL BE HERE!!! Else why do we need to study Revelation?? All those who are in Christ as well as those who are in The wrong(with the antichrist)will be here till Jesus returns at the 7th Trump and vial. It is required of us to STAND UP TO THE antichrist and let the HOLY SPIRIT speak through us. How do we know when Christ comes?? We will be without these diseased corruptible bodies and in our new spiritual bodies standing with Christ.
 

jerryjohnson

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WRONG!!! tHOSE OF US WHO ARE IN CHRIST WILL BE HERE!!! Else why do we need to study Revelation?? All those who are in Christ as well as those who are in The wrong(with the antichrist)will be here till Jesus returns at the 7th Trump and vial. It is required of us to STAND UP TO THE antichrist and let the HOLY SPIRIT speak through us. How do we know when Christ comes?? We will be without these diseased corruptible bodies and in our new spiritual bodies standing with Christ.

DW, I agree that we will be changed from our flesh bodies to our angelic bodies, at the sounding of the 7th trump when Christ returns. Just to add a little here take a look at my post in another topic:

I do not want to change the subject but just adding a thought. I agree that the day began with the evening, so why do so many believe that the Day of the Lord, at the end of this age begins in the morning. Christ returns in the morning but the day of the Lord will have all ready begun a number of hours earlier. ....

The day of the Lord, the Millennium, will have begun already, while we are still in our flesh bodies.

Mar 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
 

01CobraVortech

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WRONG!!! tHOSE OF US WHO ARE IN CHRIST WILL BE HERE!!! Else why do we need to study Revelation?? All those who are in Christ as well as those who are in The wrong(with the antichrist)will be here till Jesus returns at the 7th Trump and vial. It is required of us to STAND UP TO THE antichrist and let the HOLY SPIRIT speak through us. How do we know when Christ comes?? We will be without these diseased corruptible bodies and in our new spiritual bodies standing with Christ.

So much wrong in this post, that I don't even know where to begin. We need to study the Book of Revelation like we do any other book of the Bible. Why did God put prophecy throughout the entire Bible? To authenticate His message. There's no reason needed for the CHURCH now to stand up during the Tribulation against the AntiChrist. What purpose would that serve, since there will be plenty of Christians it seems, that will come to know the Lord during the Tribulation. The Tribulation is designed to push the Jews in to belief and to push the remaining Gentiles into belief. But its primary objective is to purge Israel of that remnant of Jews that will be around when JC returns at the end 2nd Coming. I mean look at what great pains God even goes to, to warn the Jews to flee the minute the "abomination of desolation" takes place. God even reveals that He prepares a place of sanctuary for the remnant of Jews! There is coming Holocaust of Jews, during the Tribulation that is unlike any. 2 out of 3 Jews will be killed in the next one. When Christ returns, we who are raptured return with Him. The Holy Spirit will do plenty of talking during the Tribualtion through those 144k Jews that are supernaturally sealed and commissioned to preach the gospel during the Tribulation. Not too mentioned, Elijah and Moses preaching to the world from Jerusalem for the first 3 1/2 years. Praise the Lord for only He could could put together such a magnificent strategy!
 

jerryjohnson

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So much wrong in this post, that I don't even know where to begin. We need to study the Book of Revelation like we do any other book of the Bible. Why did God put prophecy throughout the entire Bible? To authenticate His message. There's no reason needed for the CHURCH now to stand up during the Tribulation against the AntiChrist. What purpose would that serve, since there will be plenty of Christians it seems, that will come to know the Lord during the Tribulation. The Tribulation is designed to push the Jews in to belief and to push the remaining Gentiles into belief. But its primary objective is to purge Israel of that remnant of Jews that will be around when JC returns at the end 2nd Coming. I mean look at what great pains God even goes to, to warn the Jews to flee the minute the "abomination of desolation" takes place. God even reveals that He prepares a place of sanctuary for the remnant of Jews! There is coming Holocaust of Jews, during the Tribulation that is unlike any. 2 out of 3 Jews will be killed in the next one. When Christ returns, we who are raptured return with Him. The Holy Spirit will do plenty of talking during the Tribualtion through those 144k Jews that are supernaturally sealed and commissioned to preach the gospel during the Tribulation. Not too mentioned, Elijah and Moses preaching to the world from Jerusalem for the first 3 1/2 years. Praise the Lord for only He could could put together such a magnificent strategy!

Hog wash!
 
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01CobraVortech

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Btw, I forgot to add that it will probably be JerryJohnson who assassinates the AntiChrist since he's staying behind to take care of this mongrel. But that's a good thing because this sets up the devil's counterfeit resurrection of the AC, an almost perfect resurrection with the exception of the darkened eye and withered arm. :lol:
 

guysmith

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Isaiah 10:20
[ The Remnant of Israel ] In that day the remnant of Israel, the survivors of the house of Jacob, will no longer rely on him who struck them down but will truly rely on the LORD, the Holy One of Israel.
 
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guysmith

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The only Christians that will be alive, at the sounding of the fifth trumpet, are those with the seal of God on their foreheads (the 144K). If there were any other Christians alive at that time, then they too would be affected by this plague.

Revelation 9
1The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss. 2When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss. 3And out of the smoke locusts came down upon the earth and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth. 4They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads. 5They were not given power to kill them, but only to torture them for five months. And the agony they suffered was like that of the sting of a scorpion when it strikes a man. 6During those days men will seek death, but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them.

This is really quite simple. The Bible contains survival instructions for a relatively small group of Christians to be alive at Christ's advent. The Bible numbers this small group as the 144,000. It's that simple.

Now, if you have this desire to be alive at Christ's advent, to see His glorious return, then you need to rethink your position. If you do not want to see His glorious return, then just keep on doing what your doing.


This is the calling of the 144,000.

Guy
 

fivesense

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According to Rev. 7:4-8, the 144,000 are all Jewish people from the 12 tribes of Israel. In verse 9 of that chapter it says, "After this I beheld, and lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in the hands."

(1) The 144,000 are ALL and ONLY of the 12 tribes of Israel.
(2) Their will be a "multitude, which no man can number" of those who are redeemed. That means there will be FAR more than a mere 144,000 among the saved.

Excellent Jon-Marc. You've done your homework, now it up to us to believe, or trust in men for a different answer. But that path will no doubt lead down a road to nowhere and even more confusion.
fivesense

Here is what I would suggest .... this is a cut from my website:


The primary mission of the 144,000 Israelites will be to communicate the message of personal salvation and the Lord's soon coming earthly kingdom.

Here's another one that believes what he reads, and doesn't add to it. Why is this so difficult for Gentiles to grasp?
fivesense
 

guysmith

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Hello fivesense,

You stated:

Stephen, on 12 December 2009 - 03:47 PM, said:

Here is what I would suggest .... this is a cut from my website:


The primary mission of the 144,000 Israelites will be to communicate the message of personal salvation and the Lord's soon coming earthly kingdom.



Here's another one that believes what he reads, and doesn't add to it. Why is this so difficult for Gentiles to grasp?
fivesense

My response: Where in the Bible does it say: "The primary mission of the 144,000 Israelites will be to communicate the message of personal salvation and the Lord's soon coming earthly kingdom?"

Guy
 

fivesense

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Hello fivesense,

You stated:

Stephen, on 12 December 2009 - 03:47 PM, said:

Here is what I would suggest .... this is a cut from my website:


The primary mission of the 144,000 Israelites will be to communicate the message of personal salvation and the Lord's soon coming earthly kingdom.


Here's another one that believes what he reads, and doesn't add to it. Why is this so difficult for Gentiles to grasp?
fivesense

My response: Where in the Bible does it say: "The primary mission of the 144,000 Israelites will be to communicate the message of personal salvation and the Lord's soon coming earthly kingdom?"

Guy
Hello guysmith, Paul the Apostle was called a priest to the nations in Originals (Romans 15:16), and a priest acts as a go between in the affairs of men. Rev 20:6 says the sealed act as priests in the coming Kingdom,

And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. Re 20:1-3

After we read these passages, we see that the reign of the Son of Man commences. Those of Israel who were resurrected and found written in the scroll of life, enter into service as priests:

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Re 20:4-6

And whenever the Son of Man may come in his glory, and all the holy messengers with him, then he shall sit upon a throne of his glory; and gathered together before him shall be all the nations, and he shall separate them from one another, as the shepherd doth separate the sheep from the goats, and he shall set the sheep indeed on his right hand, and the goats on the left. 'Then shall the king say to those on his right hand, Come ye, the blessed of my Father, inherit the reign that hath been prepared for you from the foundation of the world; Mt 25: 31-34


Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for [thou] only [art] holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest. Re 15:4

And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither [whatsoever] worketh abomination, or [maketh] a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life. Re 21:24-27

Those outside the Holy City will be subjected to Christ's rule under the dispensation of the Twelve and the 144,000. It will be a rule of iron and just judgment, every transgression being met swiftly. The goal of which is reconciliation and subjection to Christ, and Christ's abdication and submission of the Kingdom to His Father.

And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. 1C 15:28

The promise of being kings and priests to the nations, and inheriting the earth and the heathen, will not be left unfulfilled. Whether or not Stephen's understanding of the millennial activity of Israels' saints is correct or not, the fact of the matter is they will serve and minister in the reconciliation of the earth. It is divine service towards God, as is ours. That we minister, even now, in the heavens, the extension of that service will include the entire celestial universe, while Israel performs their physical services on the earth.

I would assume that the 12,000 out of each tribe being sealed and protected prior to the period of wrath would be a testimony. This itself would be a message of the impending Kingdom, along with the Jewish New Testament writings at their disposal, i.e., Peter, James, John, etc. They would be cognizant of their commission and would be faithful to heed the Lord's warning of the time of Jacob's trouble as prophecied in the Writings.

It is important to be able to rightly divide the Word, in this case Circumcision truth versus the truth for today, as given us by Paul. Being skilled and earnest in applying it will avail much understanding where the Spirit may be leading us into the deeper things of our Father.
fivesense

 

lecoop

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Hello fivesense,

You stated:

Stephen, on 12 December 2009 - 03:47 PM, said:

Here is what I would suggest .... this is a cut from my website:


The primary mission of the 144,000 Israelites will be to communicate the message of personal salvation and the Lord's soon coming earthly kingdom.



Here's another one that believes what he reads, and doesn't add to it. Why is this so difficult for Gentiles to grasp?
fivesense

My response: Where in the Bible does it say: "The primary mission of the 144,000 Israelites will be to communicate the message of personal salvation and the Lord's soon coming earthly kingdom?"

Guy


For those that can read and remember, we know this is not found ANYWHERE in scriptures; it is only conjecture or theory. What IS written is that they are "firistfruits."
If they preach the word at all, we don't know it.

Coop
 

lecoop

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Excellent Jon-Marc. You've done your homework, now it up to us to believe, or trust in men for a different answer. But that path will no doubt lead down a road to nowhere and even more confusion.
fivesense



Here's another one that believes what he reads, and doesn't add to it. Why is this so difficult for Gentiles to grasp?
fivesense


For those that browse and don't study, it might seem, at first, that the 144,000 actually had something to do with the great crowd. But the truth is, they DON'T.
Rosenthal and VanKampen got it right on this great crowd. But I will get to that later.

IN CONTEXT John has just covered the first 6 seals. These were and are church age events. The 5th seal gave a very strong hint of when the church age would end: they would have to wait until the last martyr of the church age, which would be at the END of the church age. The next event is the 6th seal. Therefore, the HINT is that the church age ENDS at the 6th seal. And, since the sixth seal is the SIGNS of the beginning of the day of the Lord, it makes perfect sense that the church age will end at the 6th seal. So, before John gets to the 7th seal, it is like he draws the curtains (on the seals) for a small "intermission." he must rearrange the set before the final act, the 7th seal. You see, there are two events that absolutely MUST take place before the 7th seal officially begins the 70th week and Day of the Lord. The first of those two events is the rapture of the church. But John does not SEE the rapture. So John shows us the sealing of the 144,000. And AFTER that John shows us the church, having just been raptured, safe in heaven, around the throne. If one understands John's chronology, this is perfect proof of the pretrib rapture. But SO MANY are led away by the distractors, "great tribulation." Most people reading think that these CAME OUT of the last half of the week. The only problem with that theory, John HASN'T EVEN STARTED THE WEEK! No, that is not at all what John meant here by the two words, "great tribulation." What he DID mean, is that at the time of the rapture, there will be tribulation around the world, and it will be great because people will be DYING for their testimony, and for the name of Jesus. it is that way now, in half the world. You see, the two words together, "great tribulation" are NOT GOOD ENOUGH to describe those days following the abomination: go and read: Jesus has to ADD MORE words. This time will be greater than any time before or after.

AFTER the two events, rapture and sealing, then the set has been rearranged, intermission over, the curtians opened, and John can move on to the 7th seal.

In summary, the rapture takes place BEFORE the sealing, (it does not take long!) John sees the church AFTER the rapture, and after the sealing. The point is - it is simply NOT the intent of the author that this great crowd was seen due to the efforts of the 144,000.

Coop