The Case Against the Trinity
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GRACE ambassador
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Ok fine, then deleted posted in the TRUE Bible Study Forum! Thanks!
The Case FOR The Triune GodHead!
Please Be Very Richly Blessed!!
I trust in the voice of the Holy Spirit who has taught me His Truth...
I will not keep debating this with you.
I fully stand in agreement with Christianity Board's belief in the Trinity as God in three persons.
I humbly agree to disagree with your belief and until the Holy Spirit says otherwise I will not change my beliefs.
ByGraceThroughFaith
Well-Known Member
"Only the Father is God", says you, and yet the Bible, time again shows you to be wrong, and you keep on in your disagreements with the Word of God. If you refuse to hear what the Bible says, then it is pointless discussing with you, as you are wilfully blind, as Paul says, "and their eyes they did close, lest they may see with the eyes, and with the heart may understand" (Acts 28:27). I won't waste any more time with your comments.
I am suddenly so confused as to what people think is the basis of being called a CHRISTIAN.... there are a few in these forums that really have no right to refer themselves as such... I just had this conversation with APAK yesterday.
If you don't believe in the Trinity... If you don't believe JESUS is GOD... then you cannot call yourself a Christian.
If you don't believe in the Trinity... If you don't believe JESUS is GOD... then you cannot call yourself a Christian.
You know @Wrangler is correct @ByGraceThroughFaith and @Addy ....Only the Father of Yahshua is YHWH, God Almighty. In order for the Trinity theory to 'work' for you, you have to perform some real scripture gymnastics. Just throwing out scripture with next to no explanation does not cut it at all. Or even pushing a common mistranslated verse or a Trinity sounding pet verse or two does not do it either.
So IMO if a Trinitarian is so adamite and staunch and very rigid in their claim that only their club gets to heaven and are the only genuine Christians, I say they are only theoretical non-Biblical Christians who practice being like a genuine Christian.
APAK
So IMO if a Trinitarian is so adamite and staunch and very rigid in their claim that only their club gets to heaven and are the only genuine Christians, I say they are only theoretical non-Biblical Christians who practice being like a genuine Christian.
APAK
WOAH!!! I did not make ANY judgements on theology.... I STATED.... the definition of a Christian is someone who believes Jesus is God.
I don't have any desire to enter into ANY theological debates.
The Jehovah Witnesses are nice people I'm sure... but they are not Christians because they do not acknowledge that Jesus is God.
I have never heard of half these theologies that have suddenly popped up for discussion... I have done my research... I am secure in what I believe... and everyone else is free to have the same permission.
I'll take what follows as you will just ignore the very words of Jesus to support your coequal doctrine.
I can do nothing on my own. I judge as God tells me. Therefore, my judgment is just, because I carry out the will of the one who sent me, not my own will. John 5:30
I am going to the Father, who is greater than I am. John 14:28
“However, no one knows the day or hour when these things will happen, not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself. Only the Father knows. Mark 13:32 & Matthew 24:36
I doubt it is the voice of the Holy Spirit that has taught trinitarians to ignore God the Father (violate the 1C & 2C) and his Son (words above).
Good because this thread is not a debate thread. This thread's purpose is to strengthen the case against trinitarianism.
I found trinitarians do not want to debate. They just replace verses that go against their doctrine with ones they assert are supportive. I find it so odd that trinitarians cannot admit, as I do, that the Bible contains verses that apparently support both sides. For instance, I find the 5,000 times singular pronouns are used to refer to God to supersede a verse or 2 that imply plural.
If you were that humble, you would not have debated to begin with in a non-debate thread. If you were that humble you would have answered my question about just ignoring the very words of Jesus to support your coequal doctrine. Honestly, that is the VERY opposite of humble.
And so you cancel the word of God in order to hand down your own tradition.
Mark 7:13
I don't know where Calvinism came into the picture here Addy. No matter...
So let me try to pin you down with a question or two then, if you think I aimed at the wrong target as yourself.....labels are really not the main thing here, it is what we believe in....
Are not trinitarians those that mostly believe that Jesus = God Almighty? And maybe you are one, no matter.
And are there many folks that do not believe Jesus not= God Almighty that are not JWs?
APAK
Being a Christian is not what 4th century mystics demanded in using the power of the Roman Empire to take or burn property and murder non-mystic Christians. Sad to equate being a Jesus follower with embracing trinitarianism, which is not in the Bible.
Circular Reasoning. I do not believe following Christ means you have to violate the 1C & 2C. What was the requirements from Jesus - not embrace trinitarianism or else?
Then Jesus said to his disciples, “If any of you wants to be my follower, you must give up your own way, take up your cross, and follow me.
Matthew 16:24
Can A Christian Believe That Jesus Is Not God? The answer is inescapably, no, they cannot. Jesus said that all who fail to honor the Son consequently fail to honor the Father (John 5:22-23). Paul and Silas say that we must believe in the Lord Jesus to be saved (Acts 16:30-31), and the man who says that Jesus is not God is the man who says that Jesus Christ is a liar, because he unequivocally applied Old Testament prophecies meant to be fulfilled by God to himself.
Thus we are left with CS Lewis’s famous trillemma. “I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept his claim to be God. That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic — on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg — or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God, but let us not come with any patronising nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.” (Mere Christianity, page 54-56). ~Source: Therefore God Exists.
This is a matter of accuracy in my opinion... I would love to be a doctor... but I am not.. therefore I cannot claim to be one... However... I guess I could falsely use the credentials.... How does it sound??? Dr. Addy.... HA.
For me this is an important thing... not that it matters as I am just me.... but if a pickle is labelled a beet... then a lot of people are eating the wrong thing. Just saying.
Thus we are left with CS Lewis’s famous trillemma. “I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept his claim to be God. That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic — on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg — or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God, but let us not come with any patronising nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.” (Mere Christianity, page 54-56). ~Source: Therefore God Exists.
This is a matter of accuracy in my opinion... I would love to be a doctor... but I am not.. therefore I cannot claim to be one... However... I guess I could falsely use the credentials.... How does it sound??? Dr. Addy.... HA.
For me this is an important thing... not that it matters as I am just me.... but if a pickle is labelled a beet... then a lot of people are eating the wrong thing. Just saying.
Again... I will simply say... I am shocked... I had no idea that people claimed to be Christian without believing that Jesus is God.
Not sure where I've been... but I just took it for granted... and like I said.... not interested in a debate here.
Sorry... I don't like double quoting in one post.... What I meant was more-less a sarcastic remark.... You mentioned a CLUB... It's the Calvinists who have the elite club because they believe only those CHOSEN are going to heaven.
Anyways... I learned something new....
Your arrogant and condescending tone has run its course...
This forum is open for discussion...from both sides of the subject...attacking members whose beliefs are different than yours is not allowed.
Surely you are able to discuss topics here in the forum without interjecting your hatred and disdain for what others believe....
This thread has run its course as well....there are hundreds more just like it...and the ending is always the same...
Closing thread....
Closing thread....
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