The Catholic Church gets put down a lot, but it was all that could help

[brakelite]

Amazing how people are so stupefied. They know that there are only two references in the entire Bible regarding the "Son of Perdition" - Judas and the Antichrist. They know that Judas came into the church, kept up appearances in the church, and gave no indication that he was filled with Satan while he lived and worked among the church, and betrayed Christ and His church (the Papacy arose within the early church, dragged in every stripe and type of paganism imaginable, gives all appearances that it is Christ's friend and the Vicar of Christ for Christians, and yet horrifically massacred millions upon millions of the faithful and tramples the authority and position of Christ as the church's only one time Sacrifice for sin, High Priest, Mediator, and Advocate).

Yet, when confronted with the idea that the Papacy fits this exact description as this "Son of Perdition", their brains short circuit and they default to the Jesuit idea of a last seven years of tribulation Antichrist which arises outside the church. As Elisha once prayed, "Lord, open their eyes!"

I would like to clarify a couple of more things about the meaning of ‘Antichrist’.
But before we look at the antichrist, I want to look at the real Christ. Who is He? Let us go to the scriptures to find out what and Who He claimed to be.

Matthew 12:6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
The temple, the priesthood, and the religious system of the Jewish nation go hand in hand. It was the mainstay and focal point of the life of Israel. Yet Jesus claimed to be greater. Greater even than the very High priest who no doubt would take great interest in hearing a report of these words. Greater even than the very law of God enshrined within. (Or at least it used to be). Only one person can be greater than any law of God, and that is the lawgiver.

38 ¶ Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
Jonah was the most powerful and successful of all OT prophets. In all 40 odd chapters of Jeremiah, there is no record of anyone at anytime taking the slightest bit of notice of anything Jeremiah said. Yet Jonah, on the strength of just one or two sermons, converted an entire city of the children of Ishmael totaling maybe 60,000 people. Nineveh. By any standards, that has got to be recorded as a very successful evangelistic campaign. Yet Jesus claimed to be greater than Jonah.

42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
Solomon was the wisest and wealthiest and most successful of any ruler of the ancient world. Yet Jesus claimed to be greater even than Solomon.
In the three startling claims as shown above, we have before us the threefold ministry of Jesus. Priest, prophet, and King.
It has been said previously that Anti– as in antichrist, according to Strong’s concordance, (Strongs #473) and like other words having the prefix ‘anti’, means at it’s most basic form “in the room of”, “instead of”, or “in the place of”.
In other words, ‘antichrist’ stands as a substitute. We all know that Satan works by deception. Yet many would claim the ‘antichrist’ will be one who will charge in on a black horse guns blazing with fury and hatred directed at all things Christian and opposing with great force the church. Pray tell me, how will the world be deceived by such a tactic as this? The truth is, no-one will be deceived by a show of open aggression and force. No-one! But guess what! Today, as Phoneman said, almost all of Christendom and the secular world is clamoring at the Vatican's front door for an 'audience' with the leader of one of the most vicious persecuting powers that graced this planet....and in open contradiction to scripture they believe the leopard has changed its character. No, aggression hasn't deceived the world, but deception and lies most assuredly has.
In 2 Thess. 2:1 we are told that there was to be a falling away first, which will reveal the antichrist, or as Paul describes him, the man of sin or son of perdition. Now falling away in this instance is a falling into apostasy; divorce.
Any divorce necessitates a prior favourable relationship. The only other example of a ‘son of perdition’ is Judas Iscariot. Did Judas openly and with force oppose Christ? Did he attack His teachings and disagree with Jesus claims to divinity? Did he argue and debate everything Jesus stood for and seek the destruction of His followers? No. Not by any means. Judas betrayed Jesus with a kiss. He betrayed Him with an act of apparent love, fellowship, and friendship. He undermined and betrayed Jesus at the same time as claiming Him to be his friend!! This squares perfectly with the meaning of antichrist. He is not an opposer, but a subtle imposter. A counterfeit. An imposter of Jesus Christ. A false copy, or forgery of the true.

Antichrist is therefore a person or power who impersonates the offices of Priesthood, the Prophet or spokesmanship, and the Kingly rule of Christ. The office that ministers for God, speaks for God, and rules for God.

Some may wonder at my voicing this oh so politically incorrect perspective. But I refuse to be a part of the rest of God's ministers whose
Isa 56:10 watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber

 

[Phoneman777]

I would like to clarify a couple of more things about the meaning of ‘Antichrist’.
But before we look at the antichrist, I want to look at the real Christ. Who is He? Let us go to the scriptures to find out what and Who He claimed to be.

Matthew 12:6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
The temple, the priesthood, and the religious system of the Jewish nation go hand in hand. It was the mainstay and focal point of the life of Israel. Yet Jesus claimed to be greater. Greater even than the very High priest who no doubt would take great interest in hearing a report of these words. Greater even than the very law of God enshrined within. (Or at least it used to be). Only one person can be greater than any law of God, and that is the lawgiver.

38 ¶ Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
Jonah was the most powerful and successful of all OT prophets. In all 40 odd chapters of Jeremiah, there is no record of anyone at anytime taking the slightest bit of notice of anything Jeremiah said. Yet Jonah, on the strength of just one or two sermons, converted an entire city of the children of Ishmael totaling maybe 60,000 people. Nineveh. By any standards, that has got to be recorded as a very successful evangelistic campaign. Yet Jesus claimed to be greater than Jonah.

42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
Solomon was the wisest and wealthiest and most successful of any ruler of the ancient world. Yet Jesus claimed to be greater even than Solomon.
In the three startling claims as shown above, we have before us the threefold ministry of Jesus. Priest, prophet, and King.
It has been said previously that Anti– as in antichrist, according to Strong’s concordance, (Strongs #473) and like other words having the prefix ‘anti’, means at it’s most basic form “in the room of”, “instead of”, or “in the place of”.
In other words, ‘antichrist’ stands as a substitute. We all know that Satan works by deception. Yet many would claim the ‘antichrist’ will be one who will charge in on a black horse guns blazing with fury and hatred directed at all things Christian and opposing with great force the church. Pray tell me, how will the world be deceived by such a tactic as this? The truth is, no-one will be deceived by a show of open aggression and force. No-one! But guess what! Today, as Phoneman said, almost all of Christendom and the secular world is clamoring at the Vatican's front door for an 'audience' with the leader of one of the most vicious persecuting powers that graced this planet....and in open contradiction to scripture they believe the leopard has changed its character. No, aggression hasn't deceived the world, but deception and lies most assuredly has.
In 2 Thess. 2:1 we are told that there was to be a falling away first, which will reveal the antichrist, or as Paul describes him, the man of sin or son of perdition. Now falling away in this instance is a falling into apostasy; divorce.
Any divorce necessitates a prior favourable relationship. The only other example of a ‘son of perdition’ is Judas Iscariot. Did Judas openly and with force oppose Christ? Did he attack His teachings and disagree with Jesus claims to divinity? Did he argue and debate everything Jesus stood for and seek the destruction of His followers? No. Not by any means. Judas betrayed Jesus with a kiss. He betrayed Him with an act of apparent love, fellowship, and friendship. He undermined and betrayed Jesus at the same time as claiming Him to be his friend!! This squares perfectly with the meaning of antichrist. He is not an opposer, but a subtle imposter. A counterfeit. An imposter of Jesus Christ. A false copy, or forgery of the true.

Antichrist is therefore a person or power who impersonates the offices of Priesthood, the Prophet or spokesmanship, and the Kingly rule of Christ. The office that ministers for God, speaks for God, and rules for God.

Some may wonder at my voicing this oh so politically incorrect perspective. But I refuse to be a part of the rest of God's ministers whose
Isa 56:10 watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber

Excellent points regarding "Prophet, High Priest, and King", all of which the Papal power has robbed Christ. Knowing I was preaching what would likely be my last sermon at the largest SDA church in the New Orleans area back in 2010, I called out the "dumb, sleeping, mute dogs" among us and their disgusting efforts to unite light with ecumenical darkness. Ignorance can be remedied but willful ignorance is another matter altogether. Today, they are happily ordaining women pastors and preaching sermons denouncing independent ministries like Vieth's.

 

[ScaliaFan]

Such angry people for those who supposedly know the truth.We have but one head that is Christ, others choose men like the pope. .

If Jesus appeared b4 you, even if you KNEW it really was Jesus, you would still deny that the office of the pope is HIS office

you would eliminate humans entirely, wouldn't you? meaning eliminate them from the Church... you would eliminate any church at all... which a lot of noncatholics end up doing.. not going to church at all... and then they think they are holy w/ o the Church Christ founded?

how do you interpret Mt 16:18 which speaks of said Church?

did Jesus found a Church and then not care whether anyone went there or not? if it didn't matter, He wouldn't have gone to the trouble... he would have TOLD us.. that we dont need the Church...

right... "Here is my Church that i will build, but you don't need it..."

and where does it SAY in the Bible you purport to believe in that we do not need Jesus's Church?

where does it SAY that we DO need a man-made church (so called) that would come along 1500 years after His Ascension?

where is all that stuff in the Bible??

 

[ScaliaFan]

Excellent points regarding "Prophet, High Priest, and King", all of which the Papal power has robbed Christ. Knowing I was preaching what would likely be my last sermon at the largest SDA church in the New Orleans area back in 2010, I called out the "dumb, sleeping, mute dogs" among us and their disgusting efforts to unite light with ecumenical darkness. Ignorance can be remedied but willful ignorance is another matter altogether. Today, they are happily ordaining women pastors and preaching sermons denouncing independent ministries like Vieth's.

you anticatholics are always insulting people, calling them names

Where does it say in the Word that you should do that?

I've read the Bible... never seen where it says "Thou shalt call thy enemies who do not believe exactly as you do all kinds of terrible names"

guess i missed that... must have dozed off... and Bible fell on floor and couldn't find my place again....

 

[ScaliaFan]

Hi. There is a misconception of the term antichrist. Most people do believe it to refer to someone who is a blatant out and out enemy of all things Christian and through open warfare, pursues, desecrates, blasphemes, and murders all Christians he comes across, destroying churches, burning Bibles, making the Christian religion illegal. This is not so. The root meaning of the term comes with a sense of replacement. This entity, whoever or whatever he is, replaces Christ, and thus by doing so, becomes an enemy. This is accomplished through deception...through false teachings....through a system that replaces the truths of the Bible and the person of Jesus Christ and His ministry with a vacarius ministry and a vacarius priesthood and a vacarius means to salvation. It is in this fashion that he reveals himself an enemy of Christ. Placing himself, and his system of religion, "instead" of Christ in the minds and hearts of his followers.
2 Thess. 2:3 ¶ Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; (like Judas who betrayed Jesus with a kiss)
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, (the NT church)shewing himself that he is God.

again, you anticatholics need to fight the devil, the anti-Christ, not a Church. Get real.

also again... only practicing Catholics like yours truly know (and even some of them do not know) what is REALLY wrong w/ the Church.

you people have no curiosity, apparently, as to what those wrong things are... so much for being a lover and seekr of truth... I g uess it is all just as well b/c you have to walk in someone's shoes to know.. what that person knows... and since you write off the Catholic Church just b/c your pastor or whomever does... and do not want to do the... uh.. "math" for yourself... what can i say? that is your choice.

but as i have said b4, those who reject truth in this life (Truth, that is) will not have the choice to do so in the next... Truth will be forced on us in the next life... in Purgatory or God forbid, Hell

 

[StanJ]

again, you anticatholics need to fight the devil, the anti-Christ, not a Church. Get real.

also again... only practicing Catholics like yours truly know (and even some of them do not know) what is REALLY wrong w/ the Church.

you people have no curiosity, apparently, as to what those wrong things are... so much for being a lover and seekr of truth... I g uess it is all just as well b/c you have to walk in someone's shoes to know.. what that person knows... and since you write off the Catholic Church just b/c your pastor or whomever does... and do not want to do the... uh.. "math" for yourself... what can i say? that is your choice.

but as i have said b4, those who reject truth in this life (Truth, that is) will not have the choice to do so in the next... Truth will be forced on us in the next life... in Purgatory or God forbid, Hell

Where does Jesus mention Purgatory in the Bible? I know all the places he mentions hell.

 

[Phoneman777]

again, you anticatholics need to fight the devil, the anti-Christ, not a Church. Get real.

also again... only practicing Catholics like yours truly know (and even some of them do not know) what is REALLY wrong w/ the Church.

you people have no curiosity, apparently, as to what those wrong things are... so much for being a lover and seekr of truth... I g uess it is all just as well b/c you have to walk in someone's shoes to know.. what that person knows... and since you write off the Catholic Church just b/c your pastor or whomever does... and do not want to do the... uh.. "math" for yourself... what can i say? that is your choice.

but as i have said b4, those who reject truth in this life (Truth, that is) will not have the choice to do so in the next... Truth will be forced on us in the next life... in Purgatory or God forbid, Hell

By "anti-Catholics" you must mean "those of us who are anti-Catholic doctrine", right?

 

[Phoneman777]

Where does Jesus mention Purgatory in the Bible? I know all the places he mentions hell.

Purgatory is purely an invention of Catholic tradition, the teaching of which Jesus flatly condemns in Matthew 15. And Scaliafan's claim that Catholicism is based on the Bible is overthrown here.

 

[StanJ]

By "anti-Catholics" you must mean "those of us who are anti-Catholic doctrine", right?

Pretty much.

 

[StanJ]

Purgatory is purely an invention of Catholic tradition, the teaching of which Jesus flatly condemns in Matthew 15. And Scaliafan's claim that Catholicism is based on the Bible is overthrown here.

Yes I know that, I'm trying to see if he knows where it came from. I was born and raised Roman Catholic but never got saved until I left the RCC when I was 17 and got saved in a Pentecostal Church.

 

[Phoneman777]

Yes I know that, I'm trying to see if he knows where it came from. I was born and raised Roman Catholic but never got saved until I left the RCC when I was 17 and got saved in a Pentecostal Church.

While there is room for debate and speculation regarding some Biblical issues, there is absolutely no need for further discussion as to what should be done with the doctrines of the RCC that do not line up with Scripture.

 

[mjrhealth]

If Jesus appeared b4 you, even if you KNEW it really was Jesus, you would still deny that the office of the pope is HIS office

Yes and I am without a doubt that He would agree with me, because He otherwsie would be a hypocrit, which some seems to insist He is

you would eliminate humans entirely, wouldn't you? meaning eliminate them from the Church... you would eliminate any church at all... which a lot of noncatholics end up doing.. not going to church at all... and then they think they are holy w/ o the Church Christ founded?

I could never isnsist anyone go to chuch. it is there choice, our walk is with Christ not men

how do you interpret Mt 16:18 which speaks of said Church?

Why dont you study the word "church" and see where it came from.?? As someone stated,

Joh_18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

did Jesus found a Church and then not care whether anyone went there or not? if it didn't matter, He wouldn't have gone to the trouble... he would have TOLD us.. that we dont need the Church...

No Jesus is calling all men to Himself, but many prefer religion and lies to the one who is the truth.

right... "Here is my Church that i will build, but you don't need it..."

I am a part of His "ecclisisa" you cant be in it. And He put it to a friend of mine , if you have to think of it as a church, we are a "brick" in His church with Him as the foundation.

and where does it SAY in the Bible you purport to believe in that we do not need Jesus's Church?

?? And where did I say that????

where does it SAY that we DO need a man-made church (so called) that would come along 1500 years after His Ascension?

Rom_8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Gal_4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Not men

where is all that stuff in the Bible??

All you have to do is open your eyes??

 

[Born_Again]

Wow, you lose internet for a while and see some threads are still going LOL

 

[StanJ]

Wow, you lose internet for a while and see some threads are still going LOL

I wondered where you got to? How long has your internet been out? You must live in the boonies?

 

[michaelvpardo]

Didn't Jesus condemn the practice of praying vain repetitious prayers "as the heathen do, thinking they shall be heard because of their much speaking"? God doesn't bless disobedience, so please ask Him sincerely if this practice pleases Him.

He didn't actually condemn the practice, but identified it as vain and pointless, not recognizing God's omniscience nor His character.

 

[Phoneman777]

He didn't actually condemn the practice, but identified it as vain and pointless, not recognizing God's omniscience nor His character.

Well, you're right, He didn't explicitly condemn it, but if you research into the pagan practice, you'll discover that vain, repetitious prayer has its origins in ancient pagan occultism. It is effectively a form of "self-hypnosis" where the mind is "opened to the spirit" where communication and enlightenment can take place. Loyola pioneered the "Spiritual Exercises of Loyola" which were just Christianized forms of the ancient pagan practices used for opening doorways to the supernatural. Contemplative prayer, Spiritual Formation, Eastern Meditation, Visualization, Breath Prayers, etc. are all ancient practices designed to "experientially draw one closer to God". Faith ceases and experience becomes the religion, which is not Scriptural, but demonic. Sadly, these practices have been entering among Protestantism for years, masquerading as "new light" when they are really "old lies". Surely, Jesus would condemn it all, I think.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Surely, Jesus would condemn it all, I think.

I think that's a safe bet, but in this deceived and deceiving world I looked to "spiritual experience" when I was young as a means to know who God actually is. All the things that I examined showed themselves to be dead ends and of no real value in understanding the world or God. Yet it was the pursuit of healing my body and through the practice of Tai Chi Chuan that I came to experientially prove "Spiritual" existence to myself. From there it was a relatively small step (for me) to take God at His word (yet one I'd have never made if He didn't give me grace to believe Him.) I know other born again believers in Jesus Christ with similar experience. When people are indoctrinated to believe that we evolved from a puddle of slime and are just cosmic accidents, everything spiritual is brought into question. Some of us have to believe in the "spiritual" before we are able to believe in a god. I always believed in God, but I just wasn't sure who He is until I met His Son.
I actually think that most people want to believe in God, being convinced by the evidence of the world around them that He exists, and feeling despair over what they are taught.

 

[epostle1]

He didn't actually condemn the practice, but identified it as vain and pointless, not recognizing God's omniscience nor His character.

Agreed. He condemned the vanity, not the repetition.
Matt. 26:44 - Jesus prayed a third time in the garden of Gethsemane, saying the exact same words again. It is not the repetition that is the issue. It's the vanity. God looks into our heart, not solely at our words.

Luke 18:13 - the tax collector kept beating his breast and praying "God be merciful to me, a sinner." This repetitive prayer was pleasing to God because it was offered with a sincere and repentant heart.

1 Thess. 5:17 - Paul commands us to pray constantly. Good repetition is different than vain repetition.

Rev. 4:8 - the angels pray day and night without cessation the same words "Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God Almighty." This is repetitious prayer that is pleasing to God.

Psalm 136 - in this Psalm, the phrase "For His steadfast love endures forever" is more repetitious than any Catholic prayer, and it is God's divine Word.

 

[epostle1]

Well, you're right, He didn't explicitly condemn it, but if you research into the pagan practice, you'll discover that vain, repetitious prayer has its origins in ancient pagan occultism. It is effectively a form of "self-hypnosis" where the mind is "opened to the spirit" where communication and enlightenment can take place. Loyola pioneered the "Spiritual Exercises of Loyola" which were just Christianized forms of the ancient pagan practices used for opening doorways to the supernatural. Contemplative prayer, Spiritual Formation, Eastern Meditation, Visualization, Breath Prayers, etc. are all ancient practices designed to "experientially draw one closer to God". Faith ceases and experience becomes the religion, which is not Scriptural, but demonic. Sadly, these practices have been entering among Protestantism for years, masquerading as "new light" when they are really "old lies". Surely, Jesus would condemn it all, I think.

Your demonizing the Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius of Loyola is based on falsehoods. Once again, the anti-Catholic merely asserts with no evidence. You have to. Tearing down anything Catholic is done to build up your man made prot cult, it's pure insecurity. Catholic bashing is your religion. Find a Catholic source that does that to your un-named "church", whatever it may be. You can't. We don't demonize or misrepresent Protestantism the way you do to us.
Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius of Loyola < this is called providing a source to back up your claims. Try it sometime.

New Revised Anti-Catholic Version (NRACV)
Commandment #8 You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor (except Catholics, they are not human)

 

[mjrhealth]

(except Catholics, they are not human)

I didnt know catholics where not human. wow!! And that coming from a catholic...

Tearing down anything Catholic is done to build up your man made prot cult,

And yet here you are twisting the truth and stealing Gods authority so you can glorify your church???

What does it say,

Psa_4:2 O ye sons of men, how long will ye turn my glory into shame? how long will ye love vanity, and seek after leasing? Selah.

Isa_42:8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.