The Chastening that comes from God

[Behold]

4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. n

This is an interesting verse you posted, as its not telling you to strive against sin till you bleed from your eyes.
Its actually defining the difference between the greatness of the Lord Jesus, as compared to everyone else.

Also, striving against sin, is what Jesus did, being UNDER THE LAW.....and He had to do this to fulfill the law so that we could be = " Jesus has redeemed us from the CURSE OF THE LAW".
Notice that the Law is such a CURSE to be UNDER, that Jesus when under it, had to receive support from heaven, and was found sweating BLOOD.
That is what GOD as a man had to go through to KEEP THE LAW.

You'll never be able to do it., and that is why the law has been "abolished" regarding being "under Grace".
That is the Gift of Salvation, a part of it.

The CROSS represents the Law's Judgment, and it KILLED OUR SAVIOR.
It'll kill you also, if you try to keep it as He did.

So, the law is NOT GOOD, when you are under it. And you are under it, when you are trying to strive against it, in an effort to stop sinning.
When you do that, then "the power of SIN is the LAW", and the law's dominion will cause you to SIN MORE.
That is the effect of "striving against sin", if you are born again.
So, dont do that, or you will find the law's power causes you to sin and confess and sin and confess, till you die.

Answer?

You REST in God's Grace, to be empowered by this, to find this...= "Christ always gives me the Victory".

See, striving against SIN, is your will power, trying to do what only God's GRACE can do for you.
So, when you strive, you are this.. = "apart from me, you can do NOTHING".

 

[Mantis]

His chastening is the hardest thing I have ever had to deal with in my life but it is worth it. Though I go through tremendous physical and emotional sufferingI know he is purifying me. Removing dross. His steadfast love is shadowed by his severe consequences. I would not want to be his bad side.

I really am starting to worry about the lost. Most don't even give God a thought let alone thinking about the consequences of their sin. I think most people will be shocked when God comes back in furious anger.

 

[amadeus]

Do you wonder about the efficacy of God's discipline? I think He knows us, and knows what works for us. I think He's committed to our safekeeping, and to making our lives the most fruitful they can be.

I believe that He trains us as children, IF we are His children, and that His training isn't for nothing, it does produce in us the fruits of righteousness. Not righteousness itself, we have already received that from Jesus. The fruits of righteousness.

Much love!

I don't believe that any man alone can do everything always completely right, but each of us needs to work continuously at that which we are given by God to do the very best that we can. God then will take up any slack that needs to be taken up.

I believe however if a person sits back presuming God will do it all... that such a person will see a result like the man in the parable who receiving a single talent chose to bury it rather than putting it to work. His result at the end when the Master was expecting to receive an increase, was to lose even the single talent. The Master said...

"...cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" Matt 25:30

 

[marks]

I don't believe that any man alone can do everything always completely right, but each of us needs to work continuously at that which we are given by God to do the very best that we can. God then will take up any slack that needs to be taken up.

I believe however if a person sits back presuming God will do it all... that such a person will see a result like the man in the parable who receiving a the single talent chose to bury it rather than putting it to work. His result at the end when the Master expecting to receive an increase, was to lose even the single talent. The Master said...

"...cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" Matt 25:30

If this is the one chastened by God, wouldn't that mean it didn't work?

I'm not saying we "sit back and do nothing". But I am saying that God knows what we need, and will supply it to us. Whether daily bread, or a slap on the butt.

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

If this is the one chastened by God, wouldn't that mean it didn't work?

I'm not saying we "sit back and do nothing". But I am saying that God knows what we need, and will supply it to us. Whether daily bread, or a slap on the butt.

Much love!

Sometimes what we need indeed is to be chastised. This is to help us wake up to our error or erroneous direction. A good parent spanks his child not simply to punish for something done wrong to help the child wake up and remember the next time the opportunity or temptation comes his way. He wants the child to get to where he will purposely avoid that error or direction in the future.

Eventually God wants us to have overcome the temptations themselves. Jesus never sinned, but he did overcame the very temptations which lead a person to sin. God knows that alone we cannot do it, but He is also always there to provide all of the help we need. However, He will not help us if we really do not want it.

Some people love their own ways, the ways of the flesh, really more than they love God... so if they think they can get away with it they may go ahead and sin, expecting to repent later. They do this repeatedly presuming God will always receive their repentance one more time. God is a whole lot smarter than that. He understands what is in our heart...

In the end of the matter, God will not tolerate those who keep on trying to ride the fence:

"I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth." Rev 3:15-16

 

[marks]

Some people love their own ways, the ways of the flesh, really more than they love God...

That's the natural state of man in his flesh.

Aren't God's children different?

Much love!

 

[marks]

His chastening is the hardest thing I have ever had to deal with in my life but it is worth it. Though I go through tremendous physical and emotional sufferingI know he is purifying me. Removing dross. His steadfast love is shadowed by his severe consequences. I would not want to be his bad side.

I really am starting to worry about the lost. Most don't even give God a thought let alone thinking about the consequences of their sin. I think most people will be shocked when God comes back in furious anger.

If the righteous are hardly saved, where will the sinner be??

Much love!

 

[Mantis]

If the righteous are hardly saved, where will the sinner be??

Much love!

Exactly. It would be better to pluck your own eyes out than to go where they will be. I wish I could make people understand this.

 

[amadeus]

That's the natural state of man in his flesh.

Aren't God's children different?

Much love!

They are supposed to be certainly. But who are God's children?

Consider the natural children Israel to whom God sent Moses to lead them out of Egypt. From Egypt they were saved, but in the wilderness where they wandered they were too often like Lot's wife looking back at what they had had before. Were not all of the children of Jacob [the deceiver, the supplanter] supposed to be the children of Israel [God prevails]? Seemingly in many of them God did prevail an the remained the children of the deceiver:

"Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:" Rom 9:6

Saved but ultimately not saved at all!

"Because all those men which have seen my glory, and my miracles, which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted me now these ten times, and have not hearkened to my voice;
Surely they shall not see the land which I sware unto their fathers, neither shall any of them that provoked me see it:
But my servant Caleb, because he had another spirit with him, and hath followed me fully, him will I bring into the land whereinto he went; and his seed shall possess it." Numbers 14:22-24

"And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." Matt 24:12-13

"Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:" Acts 10:34

"When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt." Hosea 11:1

"And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son." Matt 2:15

A whole lot of them called out of Egypt, the sin of the flesh, but how many were prepared and allowed to enter into the Promised Land?

"And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
For many are called, but few are chosen." Matt 22:12-14

 

[marks]

A whole lot of them called out of Egypt, the sin of the flesh, but how many were prepared and allowed to enter into the Promised Land?

The new covenant is built on better promises.

I realize the difference between us on this, though I count you my brother, and do not wish to argue with you.

Much love!

 

[Hidden In Him]

This is an interesting verse you posted, as its not telling you to strive against sin till you bleed from your eyes.
Its actually defining the difference between the greatness of the Lord Jesus, as compared to everyone else.

Also, striving against sin, is what Jesus did, being UNDER THE LAW.....and He had to do this to fulfill the law so that we could be = " Jesus has redeemed us from the CURSE OF THE LAW".
Notice that the Law is such a CURSE to be UNDER, that Jesus when under it, had to receive support from heaven, and was found sweating BLOOD.
That is what GOD as a man had to go through to KEEP THE LAW.

You'll never be able to do it., and that is why the law has been "abolished" regarding being "under Grace".
That is the Gift of Salvation, a part of it.

The CROSS represents the Law's Judgment, and it KILLED OUR SAVIOR.
It'll kill you also, if you try to keep it as He did.

So, the law is NOT GOOD, when you are under it. And you are under it, when you are trying to strive against it, in an effort to stop sinning.
When you do that, then "the power of SIN is the LAW", and the law's dominion will cause you to SIN MORE.
That is the effect of "striving against sin", if you are born again.
So, dont do that, or you will find the law's power causes you to sin and confess and sin and confess, till you die.

Answer?

You REST in God's Grace, to be empowered by this, to find this...= "Christ always gives me the Victory".

See, striving against SIN, is your will power, trying to do what only God's GRACE can do for you.
So, when you strive, you are this.. = "apart from me, you can do NOTHING".

I appreciate the post. I think you may have a different concept of what "resisting sin unto blood" means than I do, however. I believe it means exposing the sins of others, especially amongst the Jews (since it's written to the Hebrews), such that they persecute and afflict true believers in Christ for doing so.

 

[amadeus]

The new covenant is built on better promises.

I realize the difference between us on this, though I count you my brother, and do not wish to argue with you.

Much love!

Thanks for your kind response.

To be clear in my own position I agree that the new covenant is built on better promises, but God also expects more from us because we have been given more. As God is no respecter of persons and He has never changed, if we being given more produce less what should we expect?

"And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:47-48

I know that many people cannot see or accept this, but I must until God shows me something different.

Don't concern yourself about it if you decide not to answer. Just give God the glory and trust always in Him! God knows where each of is. He always judges fairly!

 

[marks]

As God is no respecter of persons and He has never changed, if we being given more produce less what should we expect?

Ashes in our hands, I would think! And yet we are accepted by God in Christ, not ourselves.

I don't hold any illusions of how God will judge me, He will do so however He does. And in every lapse in character I see in myself, I am altogether certain He sees far far more! For every poor choice or just plain laziness . . .

Yet I believe Him, that He will keep me safe, eternally, for Himself. Because it's what He wants.

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

Ashes in our hands, I would think! And yet we are accepted by God in Christ, not ourselves.

I don't hold any illusions of how God will judge me, He will do so however He does. And in every lapse in character I see in myself, I am altogether certain He sees far far more! For every poor choice or just plain laziness . . .

Yet I believe Him, that He will keep me safe, eternally, for Himself. Because it's what He wants.

Much love!

Just keep trusting Him and giving Him the glory my friend. He knows just where each of us is and why ...better than we do.

 

[marks]

He knows just where each of us is and why ...better than we do.

Much much better!

Much love!

 

[Daniel Veler]

God has promised to make His people to be like Jesus.

Romans 8:28-29 KJV
28) And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29) For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Predestination = prohoridzo = advance boundries = God set bounderies in our lives from the beginning to make certain His people will be conformed to the image of Christ, our Brother.

This describes one of those bounderies, God's discipline.


Hebrews 12:5-11 KJV
5) And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6) For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7) If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8) But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9) Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10) For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11) Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Chastening is from a word that means to train as you train a child. The idea is to train us in discipline, from unruly children, to chaste and circumspect maturity.

Chastening does not seem joyous - so we're talking about just what it sounds like, getting spanked.

This is one of God's exceedingly great and precious promises.

He will discipline us. If you are His child, He will chasten you as needed.

His chastening is effective. "But He for our profit."

The result is assured. Afterward, the peaceable fruits of righteousness.

Considering that God will chasten as needed, and that His chastening works for our good. Considering that God's chastening produces the fruits of righteousness in us, I'm wondering,

How far off the reservation are you thinking you might go before God brings you back?

I hope not too far! It seems the futher I slide, the rougher the discipline to correct me.

What I've learned about God's chastening? I love Him for it!!!

Much love!

Just a thought. Chastisement comes by way of judgment. Christ tells us judge not and you will not be judge. What ever judgement you render you put yourself up to be judged. The Father’s will is that we walk in his love. Love does not judge but understands.

 

[Behold]

I appreciate the post. I think you may have a different concept of what "resisting sin unto blood" means than I do, however. I believe it means exposing the sins of others, especially amongst the Jews (since it's written to the Hebrews), such that they persecute and afflict true believers in Christ for doing so.

Well, the verse is talking to the believers, according to 12:1
It says. "let us run our race".... so, that isn't the Jewish Nation, as they are not in the race, they are set aside during the time of the Gentiles.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Well, the verse is talking to the believers, according to 12:1
It says. "let us run our race".... so, that isn't the Jewish Nation, as they are not in the race, they are set aside during the time of the Gentiles.

Yes. The letter is written to believers obviously. But now, if the reference to resisting sin unto blood is not written concerning the Jews who were persecuting those believers during NT times, who then IS it referring to?

 

[marks]

Just a thought. Chastisement comes by way of judgment. Christ tells us judge not and you will not be judge. What ever judgement you render you put yourself up to be judged. The Father’s will is that we walk in his love. Love does not judge but understands.

Hi Daniel,

For myself, I don't see chastening as jusdment, or having anything to do with judgment. I see chastening from the Lord to be contrary and adverse situations and conditions, that are sufficiently contrary as to cause us distress, pain, sorrow, whatever the Lord has appointed for us, for the purpose of delivering a gift, some much needed adjustment to our thinking, to our behavior.

I think of this as like, we get stuck in some aspect of our flesh, and we can't seem to untangle from it, so God allows something to come in to knock us loose, so we can walk in liberty instead of bondage.

This is one reason we can rejoice in tribulations, because we know what a wonderful work God is doing in our lives.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Yes. The letter is written to believers obviously. But now, if the reference to resisting sin unto blood is not written concerning the Jews who were persecuting those believers during NT times, who then IS it referring to?

Jesus, our example. That's how I understand this. He resisted against sin not only unto blood, but unto death.

Much love!