The Chosen - Godly Truth or Dangerous Fiction?

[Matthias]

Like your sorrowful diatribe.

Those who fill their head with fictional Jesus are not filling their head with the real Jesus.

You spoke to me about the real Jesus. Some know, or will come to know, the difference between the unreal and the real. Some will move past the unreal Jesus to the real Jesus. Many will not.

Mixing truth with fiction isn’t without danger.

You see no danger. I do, and so do many others.

You dismiss the warning. So will many others.

You’re unhappy about the warning. So are many others.

My conscience is clear, no matter whether others heed the warning. My conscience wouldn’t be clear if I see a danger and don’t sound a warning.

 

[Wrangler]

You’re unhappy about the warning.

Nope. Just because there are stop signs and red lights does not mean one should not drive.

 

[Zao is life]

Thanks for bringing this to my attention, you can see this here, on this Forum.

I find your posts always sound and it shows me you study scripture as well as history and facts that are pertinent to the scripture or the part of scripture you are talking about. And you're right, you can see the lack of Bible reading here on this forum.

Personally I like The Chosen series. So does my wife, and so do other members of our family. I've watched every episode and regard it as a "historical novel" type genre which has only once not been true to the history it's portraying. (I did not like the statement perpetrated to be spoken by Jesus, "I am the law!!"). Nor do I believe it's accurate. The law is a shadow of Christ. Law is not living or alive, and is certainly not the living Word who gave the law to Moses - but that's the only time I saw anything that according to my understanding of scripture nullifies or contradicts the message of scripture.

But the "historical novel" genre is what the whole purpose is of the Producer/Director. He makes human beings human, and because the series is what it is, the series has made Christianity accessible and understandable and real to many for whom the message of the Bible seemed all so remote and strange and often more like a children's story book full of dragons and witches and heroes (just read Acts and you'll find witches and heroes and read Revelation and you'll find a dragon and a beast).
​

The series makes God and Christ and all the apostles real and is believable for those who lack knowledge - unlike any "Jesus movie" that came before it - because "Jesus movies" are for Christian believers - but this type of genre speaks to those who are unsaved and had no clue what the New Testament was all about. I also know of a number of Christians who were prompted by the series to go and find in the New Testament where this and that was said - which is always good because it encourages even Christians to go reading the Bible.

I have also heard of people being brought to faith in Christ through the series - because they realized that this is all very real and really did happen 2,000 years ago.

I'm aware of the danger always involved in that type of production, and I think the Director does a great job. I can't say I will never find more I disagree with in the future or that no episode will ever put me completely off the series - but "so far, so good", with one exception - and I did not find that the production gave me less faith, but helps strengthen faith.

So I don't know, but I have the sense that it betrays too much legalism on the part of the critics. Including me who strongly disagrees with and does not like to hear "Jesus" saying "I am the law!!" in one episode - but that was one episode out of all the episodes and series I have watched (and I watched them all until the latest series). Only once. I think it's good going. Kudos to Dallas.​

 

[BlessedPeace]

LDS Fiction.

 

[Rockerduck]

Matthew was not Jesus's speech writer. I stopped watching it after that.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

I also know of a number of Christians who were prompted by the series to go and find in the New Testament where this and that was said - which is always good because it encourages even Christians to go reading the Bible.​

Hi Zao

Following up on your interesting post, I can share with you that my wife did not get any biblical education, and this series (and other films as well) have prompted her curiosity to find out what the Bible says, what elements are originally taken from the Bible and which ones were invented by the director.

In general, I also like The Chosen and I don't find any hint of an attack to Christ or his gospel. It is obvious that a film about Jesus will have fictional elements and inaccuracies... we can find that in every biographical film... Beethoven, Mozart, Gandhi, Oppenheimer, you name it.

I don't know if you are aware of the musical "The Book of Mormon". I watched it in Broadway about 4 years ago. It was fun.
One of the Mormon authorities was asked whether he thought this would harm the reputation of the LDS church, and he said that the opposite had ocurred: more people interested in learning what the Book of Mormon was really about. People normally understand that the directors are exaggerating and introducing biases and fictional elements to any play... so they want to know "the real thing".

 

[Matthias]

Hi Zao

Following up on your interesting post, I can share with you that my wife did not get any biblical education, and this series (and other films as well) have prompted her curiosity to find out what the Bible says, what elements are originally taken from the Bible and which ones were invented by the director.

In general, I also like The Chosen and I don't find any hint of an attack to Christ or his gospel. It is obvious that a film about Jesus will have fictional elements and inaccuracies... we can find that in every biographical film... Beethoven, Mozart, Gandhi, Oppenheimer, you name it.

I don't know if you are aware of the musical "The Book of Mormon". I watched it in Broadway about 4 years ago. It was fun.
One of the Mormon authorities was asked whether he thought this would harm the reputation of the LDS church, and he said that the opposite had ocurred: more people interested in learning what the Book of Mormon was really about. People normally understand that the directors are exaggerating and introducing biases and fictional elements to any play... so they want to know "the real thing".

It has been widely reported in entertainment industry reviews of the program that The Chosen is wildly popular and has developed a cult following. People are emotionally drawn to, and fall in love with, fictional Jesus.

Have you noticed that when the program is criticized that it produces a typical cult response?

Fictional Jesus isn’t the real Jesus. The character is molded and molds have weaknesses. Push on the mold, tap on those weaknesses, and the lovers of fictional Jesus become enraged. The cult is under attack. They are defending fictional Jesus, not the real Jesus.

 

[Zao is life]

It has been widely reported in entertainment industry reviews of the program that The Chosen is wildly popular and has developed a cult following. People are emotionally drawn to, and fall in love with, fictional Jesus.

Have you noticed that when the program is criticized that it produces a typical cult response?

Fictional Jesus isn’t the real Jesus. The character is molded and molds have weaknesses. Push on the mold, tap on those weaknesses, and the lovers of fictional Jesus become enraged. The cult is under attack. They are defending fictional Jesus, not the real Jesus.

That happens here with anyone who says for example that the first seal of the Apocalypse is not the Antichrist and that the temple Paul spoke of in 2 Thessalonians 2:4 is not gonna be another man-made structure in Jerusalem and.... and .... and ...

You will be attacked by the cultists who believe in the very things that you are contradicting.

It does not take a series like the Chosen to cause cult-following of people's opinions and molded views of scripture. There are many other molded views of Christ than were produced in a movie or series. There's a molded view of the Lord's Table in the Catholic Church and there are molded views by the hundreds or thousands all over that needed no movie Director. The Chosen series so far is NOT pushing doctrine while remaining true to the message of Christ, to who He was and what He said and did. What people do with it is the same as what they do with your and anyone else's words and views expressed here. Those who believe certain Christian personalities turn their teaching into cults and they develop cult followings. Look at any mega church.

I think Jesus would be in favor of anyone who puts Christianeze into "language any ordinary human can understand", as long as the one doing it does not change or twist the message of Christ. So far the Chosen series has not done that. Instead it brings out the message - out of its "hiding away in Christianeze" and puts it into plain language - and in the process it causes many to search the scriptures because NOW they understand and NOW they want to see where this was said, that was done, etc.

There isn't this kind of diversion from scripture that you seem to think there is in The Chosen series. The series is just not putting things word-for-word and often the episode you are watching actually portrays the biblical context that isn't immediately obvious to the person who doesn't know the Bible very well.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

It has been widely reported in entertainment industry reviews of the program that The Chosen is wildly popular and has developed a cult following. People are emotionally drawn to, and fall in love with, fictional Jesus.

Have you noticed that when the program is criticized that it produces a typical cult response?

Fictional Jesus isn’t the real Jesus. The character is molded and molds have weaknesses. Push on the mold, tap on those weaknesses, and the lovers of fictional Jesus become enraged. The cult is under attack. They are defending fictional Jesus, not the real Jesus.

I haven't reviewed the criticisms and subsequent reactions, but I take your word.
In my experience, which can be biased, once rage appears in a discussion, it is very likely that both sides are doing something wrong.

 

[Matthias]

I haven't reviewed the criticisms and subsequent reactions, but I take your word.

Please don’t take my word for it. Do your own homework. Don’t let others do it for you. (Sounds like something an old teacher might say - and millions of them have.)

In my experience, which can be biased, once rage appears in a discussion, it is very likely that both sides are doing something wrong.

I grant you that can happen (disciples of Jesus are a work in progress) but my model, my example, my teacher, is the Messiah. He did nothing wrong and his enemies raged against him and against those whom he sent in his day. He hasn’t stopped sending and his enemies continue to rage against him in them.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

I grant you that can happen (disciples of Jesus are a work in progress) but my model, my example, my teacher, is the Messiah. He did nothing wrong and his enemies raged against him and against those whom he sent in his day. He hasn’t stopped sending and his enemies continue to rage against him in them.

That would be an interesting topic for a thread. Why did people rage against Jesus and his apostles?

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Please don’t take my word for it. Do your own homework. Don’t let others do it for you. (Sounds like something an old teacher might say - and millions of them have.)

You're right. "Independent investigation of truth" is one of the main principles of the Baha'i Faith.
What I meant is that I don't think I will have time to investigate about comments to The Chosen, so for now you are my most reliable source.

 

[Behold]

That would be an interesting topic for a thread. Why did people rage against Jesus and his apostles?

If you put a Dove into a room filled with Snakes, Vipers, they will bite The Dove, because that is what Vipers do.

Jesus said of this world........>"You brood of Vipers".... and He's talking about sinners, as sinners are the "Devil's nature", and Jesus defines sinners, unbelievers as "You are of your FATHER, the Devil".
And John describes the Devil as "Serpent" in Revelation 12.

So, in a world of (Christ Rejecting) People and " false religions" like yours @Pancho Frijoles ..... that are all owned by the Devil and are the spiritual offspring of the Devil, a "brood of Vipers'.. then when Heaven's Dove came into their midst, it was their= Nature<< to Hate, and Reject, and Murder The CHRIST, as that is what "you are of your Father the Devil", are going to Do to Jesus.
And they did.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

If you put a Dove into a room filled with Snakes, Vipers, they will bite The Dove, because that is what Vipers do.

Jesus said of this world........>"You brood of Vipers".... and He's talking about sinners, as sinners are the "Devil's nature", and Jesus defines sinners, unbelievers as "You are of your FATHER, the Devil".
And John describes the Devil as "Serpent" in Revelation 12.

So, in a world of (Christ Rejecting) People and " false religions" like yours @Pancho Frijoles ..... that are all owned by the Devil and are the spiritual offspring of the Devil, a "brood of Vipers'.. then when Heaven's Dove came into their midst, it was their= Nature<< to Hate, and Reject, and Murder The CHRIST, as that is what "you are of your Father the Devil", are going to Do to Jesus.
And they did.

The behavior that you are describing as proper of vipers, is not the behavior proper of baha'is. At least, of the baha'is I know.
Jesus called the people who wanted to murder Him offspring of the devil, because they did the works of the devil.

It is the works they do, the fruits they produce, what help us to tell the children of God from "offspring of the devil".

So, don't ever call a Jehovah Witness, or a Jew, or a Muslim, or a Mormon, or a Baha'i, "offspring of the devil", until you know that they behave as offspring of the devil. And even if you find a person doing that, be careful on how you judge them, because you will be judged by the same measurement.

 

[Behold]

The behavior that you are describing as proper of vipers, is not the behavior proper of baha'is.

God does not consider how you describe yourself, as How God sees you. @Pancho Frijoles
He sees the Heart, only.

It is the works they do, the fruits they produce, what help us to tell the children of God from "offspring of the devil".

God sees the Heart, .. the works are insignificant, regarding How God sees the Heart.

Religious works, are nothing more and nothing less.

So, don't ever call a Jehovah Witness, or a Jew, or a Muslim, or a Mormon, or a Baha'i, "offspring of the devil", until you know that they behave

Anyone who isn't born again by the Spirit of God, isn't of God, regarding becoming a "Son/Daughter" of God.

Any religion that is not connected to being born again, based on The Sacrifice of Jesus on The Cross for your SIN, is a FALSE religion.
Religion, is a man-made situation.

Christianity, is a God Created born again Family of : "Believers in Jesus",

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Anyone who isn't born again by the Spirit of God, isn't of God, regarding becoming a "Son/Daughter" of God.

If we can't look into the heart, and only God can, does it mean that we can't examine the fruits, as Jesus asked us to do?
Jesus compared the action of the spirit with the wind (spirit and wind, in the end, are the same word). We can't see it, but we can feel the effects.

I encourage you to stop considering the JW, the Mormon, the Catholic, the Muslim, the Baha'i, as not being born again, just based on the religion they profess. I encourage you to keep a prudent silence on the spiritual condition and fate of people based on their religion.
Are you willing to do that, Behold?

 

[Behold]

If we can't look into the heart, and only God can, does it mean that we can't examine the fruits, as Jesus asked us to do?

The devil's ministers counterfeit this "fruit", you are speaking about.

They fake it.

Jesus compared the action of the spirit with the wind (spirit and wind, in the end, are the same word). We can't see it, but we can feel the effects.

"feel the effects"?

What a Christian can do, is operate according to Faith all the time.

"without FAITH, its impossible to please God".

So, "works', are just works.....and God is not pleased by Works, He's pleased by FAITH.

A person says.>>"well, i'll show you that im a Christian....."""".i'll give to the poor, i'll help old ladies, i'll feed orphans, i'll work for FREE".

And an unbeliever a religious person, not a Christian says....>>"."""""i'll give to the poor, i'll help old ladies, i'll feed orphans, i'll work for FREE".


so, what is the difference between them when they are both doing good "FRUIT"?

A.) Only the Christian has "Christ in them", and only the Christian is going to Heaven.

I encourage you to stop considering the JW, the Mormon, the Catholic, the Muslim, the Baha'i, as not being born again

Ive not stated that those groups do not contain some Christians.

However, regarding truth as Doctrine, according to what Paul teaches, and what the NT wants a Christian to believe... those groups, are "cults".

Muslims, are not born again, according to the Quran & The Hadith, and according to Christianity... so, they are not Christians. They are Muslims.

The worst of them are Hyper Religious Terrorist Psychopaths, devils, a death cult., (Hamas, Hezbollah, Isis)...etc.....that claims "allah" told them to kill Jews and anyone else they decide to murder, who isnt a MUSLIM.

Baha'i's teach some unfortunate False Catholic Doctrine, and unless they believe in Christ alone for their Salvation, going to Him by faith to forgive all their sin.... then they are not Christians.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

The devil's ministers counterfeit this "fruit", you are speaking about.

They fake it.

No, that's not true.

Jesus said that it is impossible for a good tree to bear bad fruit and viceversa.
Jesus required from us to examine the fruits. It is his recommendation.
As a follower of Jesus, you should know this and act accordingly.

If any person consciously calls the works of the Holy Spirit the works of Beelzebub, that person is committing the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
So, let's be very careful, my brother, when making a judgement about the life of a Sikh or a Muslim.
If the Sikh or Muslim is bringing to this world love, peace, healing, mercy, benevolence, etc. never call those fruits the works of the devil.

 

[Rockerduck]

No, that's not true.

Jesus said that it is impossible for a good tree to bear bad fruit and viceversa.
Jesus required from us to examine the fruits. It is his recommendation.
As a follower of Jesus, you should know this and act accordingly.

If any person consciously calls the works of the Holy Spirit the works of Beelzebub, that person is committing the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
So, let's be very careful, my brother, when making a judgement about the life of a Sikh or a Muslim.
If the Sikh or Muslim is bringing to this world love, peace, healing, mercy, benevolence, etc. never call those fruits the works of the devil.

All religions that say you can go to heaven if you are good enough, is false. Christianity says you will never be good enough. John 3:16.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

All religions that say you can go to heaven if you are good enough, is false. Christianity says you will never be good enough. John 3:16.

If you are good, it is because of the grace of God working in you.
If you are good, it is because you have been saved. Praise be to God.
I won't ask if you are Sikh, Christian or Muslim.
Jesus is telling you, Roberduck and you, @Behold : "A good tree cannot bear evil fruit, nor can a corrupt tree bear good fruit" (Mat 7:18)

Whoever thinks that the devil can fake the works of the Holy Spirit, is under risk of committing the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
So, I encourage you, Rockerduck, @Behold and @Matthias, to recognize God in the life those Sikhs, Jehovah Witnesses, Catholics, Mormons, Muslims, Buddhists or Baha'is who are producing the fruits of the Spirit: love, joy, peace, gentleness... etc.