The Chosen - Godly Truth or Dangerous Fiction?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

J

Johann

Guest
If you are good, it is because of the grace of God working in you.
If you are good, it is because you have been saved. Praise be to God.
I won't ask if you are Sikh, Christian or Muslim.
Jesus is telling you, Roberduck and you, @Behold : "A good tree cannot bear evil fruit, nor can a corrupt tree bear good fruit" (Mat 7:18)

Whoever thinks that the devil can fake the works of the Holy Spirit, is under risk of committing the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
So, I encourage you, Rockerduck, @Behold and @Matthias, to recognize God in the life those Sikhs, Jehovah Witnesses, Catholics, Mormons, Muslims, Buddhists or Baha'is who are producing the fruits of the Spirit: love, joy, peace, gentleness... etc.

View attachment 47279
That's not how we test the spirits friend-and I don't like these "pictures" you keep on sending.


Biblical Reference
This concept is articulated in Matthew 7:11 and Luke 11:13. In Matthew 7:11, the verse reads:

Greek: εἰ οὖν ὑμεῖς πονηροὶ ὄντες οἴδατε δόματα ἀγαθὰ διδόναι τοῖς τέκνοις ὑμῶν, πόσῳ μᾶλλον ὁ πατὴρ ὑμῶν ὁ ἐν τοῖς οὐρανοῖς δώσει ἀγαθὰ τοῖς αἰτοῦσιν αὐτόν;
Transliteration: Ei oun hymeis ponēroi ontes oidate domata agatha didonai tois teknois hymōn, posō mallon ho patēr hymōn ho en tois ouranois dōsei agatha tois aitousin auton?
Translation: "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask Him!"
Greek Word Study
Ponēroi (πονηροὶ):

Meaning: This adjective means "evil" or "wicked." It comes from the root word πονηρός (ponēros), which generally refers to moral evil or badness.
Usage: In this context, it refers to human beings, acknowledging the inherent sinfulness or moral imperfection of humanity.
Didonai (διδόναι):

Meaning: This is the present active infinitive form of δίδωμι (didōmi), meaning "to give."
Usage: It indicates the act of giving, emphasizing the habitual or ongoing nature of this action.
Agatha (ἀγαθὰ):

Meaning: This is the neuter plural form of the adjective ἀγαθός (agathos), meaning "good" or "beneficial."
Usage: It denotes the good things or gifts that are given.
Grammatical Structure
The structure of Matthew 7:11 juxtaposes the moral state of humans with their ability to perform good acts, particularly towards their children. The conditional phrase "εἰ οὖν ὑμεῖς πονηροὶ ὄντες" ("If you then, being evil") sets up a comparison with the goodness and generosity of God. The present participle ὄντες (ontes), meaning "being," emphasizes the ongoing state of being evil.

Context
The broader context of this verse is the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5-7), where Jesus teaches about the nature of God's kingdom and the righteousness expected of its citizens. In Matthew 7, Jesus instructs His followers on prayer, emphasizing the goodness and reliability of God as a Father. By stating that even evil people know how to give good gifts to their children, Jesus highlights God's far greater goodness and willingness to give beneficial gifts to those who ask Him.

Theological Implications
Human Nature: The acknowledgment of human beings as "evil" aligns with the biblical doctrine of original sin and the inherent fallenness of humanity (Romans 3:23).
God's Goodness: The contrast with God's nature underscores His perfect goodness and generosity, surpassing even the natural affection parents have for their children.
Encouragement to Pray: The assurance of God's willingness to give good things encourages believers to approach Him with confidence in prayer (Hebrews 4:16).

The phrase "those who are evil can give good things" illustrates a profound theological truth about the nature of God and humanity. While humans, despite their inherent sinfulness, can perform acts of goodness, God's goodness is infinitely greater. This understanding calls believers to trust in God's perfect provision and to seek His blessings through prayer.
 

Pancho Frijoles

Active Member
May 22, 2024
651
186
43
58
Mexico City
Faith
Other Faith
Country
Mexico
That's not how we test the spirits friend-
Then, Johann, change your method of testing spirits and adopt Christ's method.
I have quoted from Scripture what Christ Himself set as the method.
Christ's method implies that God can change a life from evil to good... that thanks to God's grace, good trees that bear good fruits exist.

The verses you are quoting speak about the evilness of men, not about the works of the Holy Spirit to sanctify them.
So, those verses have nothing to do against Christ's method.

and I don't like these "pictures" you keep on sending.
May I ask, what is in these pictures that you don't like?
For example, what don't you like from the last picture I posted?
 

Rockerduck

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2022
2,781
2,344
113
70
Marietta, Georgia.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
If you are good, it is because of the grace of God working in you.
If you are good, it is because you have been saved. Praise be to God.
I won't ask if you are Sikh, Christian or Muslim.
Jesus is telling you, Roberduck and you, @Behold : "A good tree cannot bear evil fruit, nor can a corrupt tree bear good fruit" (Mat 7:18)

Whoever thinks that the devil can fake the works of the Holy Spirit, is under risk of committing the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
So, I encourage you, Rockerduck, @Behold and @Matthias, to recognize God in the life those Sikhs, Jehovah Witnesses, Catholics, Mormons, Muslims, Buddhists or Baha'is who are producing the fruits of the Spirit: love, joy, peace, gentleness... etc.

View attachment 47279
Friend, the road to hell is paved with people doing good deeds and intentions.

John 14:6 - Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
 

Pancho Frijoles

Active Member
May 22, 2024
651
186
43
58
Mexico City
Faith
Other Faith
Country
Mexico
Friend, the road to hell is paved with people doing good deeds and intentions.
I don't recall having read this principle in the Bible. Where did you read it?
I would say that the road to hell is paved with people doing bad deeds and with bad intentions.
Do you want me to quote the Scripture to support what I think?
 

Rockerduck

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2022
2,781
2,344
113
70
Marietta, Georgia.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I don't recall having read this principle in the Bible. Where did you read it?
I would say that the road to hell is paved with people doing bad deeds and with bad intentions.
Do you want me to quote the Scripture to support what I think?
Friend, Its an old, really old saying. The fact is you can ask anyone if they are going heaven, and the response is "I hope so", and "I hope I've been good enough". But nobody is good, zero.

Isaiah 64:6-
But we are all like an unclean thing,
And all our righteousness's are like filthy rags;

Only through the Jesus can the get to Heaven. Only one choice in this life. Only one path to Heaven.

John 14:6 - Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father (Heaven) except through Me
 
  • Like
Reactions: Debp

Debp

Well-Known Member
Jul 5, 2020
7,972
10,260
113
California
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No, that's not true.

Jesus said that it is impossible for a good tree to bear bad fruit and viceversa.
Jesus required from us to examine the fruits. It is his recommendation.
As a follower of Jesus, you should know this and act accordingly.

If any person consciously calls the works of the Holy Spirit the works of Beelzebub, that person is committing the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
So, let's be very careful, my brother, when making a judgement about the life of a Sikh or a Muslim.
If the Sikh or Muslim is bringing to this world love, peace, healing, mercy, benevolence, etc. never call those fruits the works of the devil.

We still need to believe on Christ to be saved.

14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

18“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:14-18.

Btw, there are reasons that unbelievers will perform good works. Some try to work their way to Heaven. Others do good works due to a prideful spirit....that they might be recognized and commended by people.
 

Pancho Frijoles

Active Member
May 22, 2024
651
186
43
58
Mexico City
Faith
Other Faith
Country
Mexico
Btw, there are reasons that unbelievers will perform good works. Some try to work their way to Heaven. Others do good works due to a prideful spirit....that they might be recognized and commended by people.
I agree, Debp.

There are people who perform good deeds for many bad reasons: to be seen and praised by men, fit in within a group, avoid taxes, work their way to heaven, etc. Jesus took the Pharisees as an example.

However, I'm not talking about that. Such insincerity happens in people from all religions, including Christians.

I'm talking about the genuine love that you can find in some people from all religions, and which bears the fruits of the spirit.
My contention is that such fruits cannot be faked by Satan, and that adjudicating those fruits to Beelzebub would be denying the works of the Holy Spirit. My contention is that such fruits are the result of the salvific grace of God. The result, not the merits to achieve it.
My contention is that those people prove to believe in Christ because they are paying heed to His voice, even if they have not heard about Jesus of Nazareth or hold vague and erroneous beliefs about Him.
 

RLT63

Well-Known Member
Apr 24, 2022
4,055
2,624
113
Montgomery
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
If you are good, it is because of the grace of God working in you.
If you are good, it is because you have been saved. Praise be to God.
I won't ask if you are Sikh, Christian or Muslim.
Jesus is telling you, Roberduck and you, @Behold : "A good tree cannot bear evil fruit, nor can a corrupt tree bear good fruit" (Mat 7:18)

Whoever thinks that the devil can fake the works of the Holy Spirit, is under risk of committing the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
So, I encourage you, Rockerduck, @Behold and @Matthias, to recognize God in the life those Sikhs, Jehovah Witnesses, Catholics, Mormons, Muslims, Buddhists or Baha'is who are producing the fruits of the Spirit: love, joy, peace, gentleness... etc.

View attachment 47279
2Co 11:13 - For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

Unchecked Copy Box
2Co 11:14 - And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Unchecked Copy Box
2Co 11:15 - Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Debp

Matthias

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
19,958
14,032
113
Kentucky
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
Twitter / X strikes again. If you post about it online, search engines feed it to you.

“Okay, so:

Some of you guys know that I’ve been hot on the trail trying to chase down historical head scratchers in The Chosen.

And I think I have found the craziest one yet.

In the season finale of Season 4, King David is shown anointing the feet of the Passover Lamb six days before passover, which corresponds to Mary of Bethany anointing Jesus.

This came into the show because of their consultant Jalein Abania, who has some kind of consulting role on the show after her Bible facts / skits on tiktoks blew up. She says in one of her videos that the
passover lamb is anointed 6 and 2 days before Passover, corresponding to both anointing at Bethany. Her stated source for this is Exodus 12 (it’s not) but I think the more plausible source is Bible Reference, which had this posted on their website from 2021 to yesterday.

I talked to the editor and he said that their source was basically ‘we heard it,’ and they’ve since taken it down.

But, there are a number of self published books and blogs between 2021 and 2017, which all go back to one 2017 blog. This blog’s source is a sermon from a minister that was made in 2010. This minister says that he learned it from his mentor who learned it from a rabbi.

I contacted this minister and asked for his source, and they said they would not give me the name of the rabbi. However, there IS a mentor this minister names in a lot of his sources, and he is a charismatic man who has credited his ability to read Hebrew before to a charismatic gift from God. And he calls Jesus his rabbi.

So, while there’s a few loose ends here: I think this raises the question of — was the rabbi at the root of all this … Jesus?

Was the source for this claim, that eventually made it into The Chosen, a man who heard it from Jesus?

Once we get to 2010 I can’t quite connect all the dots and I’m still waiting to see if I hear back from a few people, but at this point this is as far back as I can find.

Someone heard it directly from Jesus.

And then it made it into The Chosen.

I COULD BE WRONG.

But, I think this is what happened. I’ll tell you the whole story on the blog.

I’m waiting to see if I hear back from the Got Questions guy, the minister in question who I think is at the source of this (I think they’re sick of emailing me though, not holding my breath) and the consultants on The Chosen.

But if I don’t hear something that radically changes my sense if what happened I’m 95 percent sure I’ve got it figured out.”


It’s historically “crazy” but might have come directly from Jesus.

P.S.

I should probably make clear to my readers that I myself don’t believe that this came directly from Jesus himself.
 
Last edited:

Matthias

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
19,958
14,032
113
Kentucky
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
“The Bible Roundtable with the Chosen / anointing the Passover Lamb’s feet thing dropped today and they went THE WHOLE WAY FOR IT BEING A REAL HISTORICAL TRADITION”

 

CC7799

Active Member
Aug 7, 2024
278
125
43
Oregon
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I never watched the program on the chosen. Hollywood movies are exaggerated, or even inaccurate.

Mel Gibson movie, the passion was surprisingly accurate. Although few discrepancies.

One scene. Jesus being flogged by Roman soldier. Satan appears with child. This is total nonsense.

In Matthew chapter 4. Jesus ordered Satan to get behind me !!

Satan can no longer physically come to earth. His evil spirit can.

Satan is in different dimension. Again, physically, Satan can't come to earth. Only his evil spirit.

The 1970s movie, Exorcist. Linda Blair. Is completely exaggerated.

Demonic Spirit wouldn't fool anyone by looking half dead, and vomit.

Satan, and evil spirits operate by deception.

I personally experienced person who had demonic possession.

In 2004. A Catholic woman, I knew from old job, 1997. She Left message on answering machine, 2004. It was vulgar and pure Hatred. Half Way through her voiced changed to masculine voice. Ste admitted shes evil.

Case closed.

Evil spirits use Deception and lies.