The Church in the Wilderness

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Nancy

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Jesus Christ is both the cornerstone AND a stumbling-block. The land is BOTH flowing with milk and honey where WE eat of it's goodness AND a place that eats US up. It's both a place of victory AND defeat. Hence the opposing testimonies to the land.

The test of the mystery of faith is that it is So hard to believe it...that few will be able to do so.

So then seeing the same thing causes different reactions in different people...to one...faith...to another...despair.

How many walk in the victory of Christ over sin today? How hard is it to believe that it is right here and now available by faith?

So we see that they who will not believe that God can do the impossible will despair that perfection is a requirement of God who is holy.

But others will rejoice that this victory exists and go after it with the whole heart. These will rejoice even before tasting the fruit of it! By faith.

"
So we see that they who will not believe that God can do the impossible will despair that perfection is a requirement of God who is holy.

"But others will rejoice that this victory exists and go after it with the whole heart. These will rejoice even before tasting the fruit of it! By faith."

WORD!!!!
 

Philip James

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In every generation and in every place the church needs to come together and seek the Lord for entrance into the promises of God.

Indeed we do. And have! And so we offer the pure sacrifice of Malachi 1:11 in union with our brothers and sisters throughout the generations.

The wedding feast is now!


People rather are told that their salvation status is assured unconditionally so that dying in the wilderness is all there is available at this time.

Yikes.
To the foot of the cross we must go, that we may rise with Him to new life.

The one who sat on the throne said, "Behold, I make all things new." Then he said, "Write these words down, for they are trustworthy and true."


The purpose of the gospel is that we might enter into His life...His eternal life. The cost of attaining this life is far too high for most people.

What cost can be to high to gain Jesus Christ? What profit to gain or keep the world at the cost of eternity?

Come and be reborn, and unite oneself with God Incarnate, Jesus Christ and enter in to the new creation..

The Spirit and the bride say, "Come." Let the hearer say, "Come." Let the one who thirsts come forward, and the one who wants it receive the gift of life-giving water.


All are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!
 

Philip James

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The test of the mystery of faith is that it is So hard to believe it..

And yet, we must believe HIS words. To whom else can we go?

Jesus then said to the Twelve, "Do you also want to leave?"

Simon Peter answered him, "Master, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.

We have come to believe and are convinced that you are the Holy One of God."


Peace be with you!
 

Philip James

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Yes, a wholesome image in context, if properly understood

Hello farouk,

That context is the celebration of the Eucharist.

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.

The Groom and His bride, made one.

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace be with you!
 

farouk

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Hello farouk,

That context is the celebration of the Eucharist.

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.

The Groom and His bride, made one.

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace be with you!
The Lord's Supper is not mentioned in John 6. It refers to feeding by faith on Christ.
 

Philip James

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The Lord's Supper is not mentioned in John 6. It refers to feeding by faith on Christ.

Indeed it takes faith.

Then he took the bread, said the blessing, broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body, which will be given for you; do this in memory of me."

And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which will be shed for you.


Believe His words!

Abram put his faith in the LORD, who credited it to him as an act of righteousness.

Peace!
 

CovenantPromise

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Why must they be seen as two things and not one?
Are not all the scriptures divided in forums by those who refuse to see the scriptures as One as God is? Many pick and choose and make argument for and divide the scriptures as if dividing Christ's garments . All the NT is written by those who are of one mind and that mind is Christ. If men saw that there would be no divisions amongst those who call themselves Christian.
 

farouk

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John17: 15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. 17 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth. 18 As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. 19 For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.

We are in the world in order to be salt and light to a dying world.

As Paul put it, to those prisoners in chains being dragged to death we are the sent of there death.
We cannot expect to be loved.
What wondrous words from John 17...
 

amadeus

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Are not all the scriptures divided in forums by those who refuse to see the scriptures as One as God is? Many pick and choose and make argument for and divide the scriptures as if dividing Christ's garments . All the NT is written by those who are of one mind and that mind is Christ. If men saw that there would be no divisions amongst those who call themselves Christian.
You make it sound easy, but of course it is not, or then again, LOL, perhaps it is. It is to easy see when we look at the confusion of men. But... it easy to see why there should be no confusion among men who really are followers of God... for God is NOT the author of confusion.
 
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farouk

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@farouk
Don’t know where your quote went I was responding to:

“The pleasure of the Lord shall prospers in His hand”. Been thinking on it ever since yesterday. Speaking strictly of the Spiritual mutuality between Christ and the church. Only keeping the flesh out of it as the definition of “pleasure” sometimes changes in regards to flesh and it can become ugly. One that stood out was how fathers chastened after their own pleasure but God after our own profit that we may be partakers of Him. Luke 12:32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

It is His good pleasure to give the kingdom...Not to withhold but to give. Ephesians 1:6-9 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. [7] In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; [8] Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; [9] Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

Philippians 2:13-16 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. [14] Do all things without murmurings and disputings: [15] That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; [16] Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain(emptiness), neither laboured in vain.(emptiness)...that we labour not in worthless empty words of strife and vain babbling but do His good pleasure ...as He and should be our greatest pleasure.

2 Thessalonians 1:11-12 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power: [12] That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

That He may be glorified in you, and you in Him...Christ and His church. So woke up this morning really considering His good pleasure which, yes, wholesome, and pure and beautiful...
@VictoryinJesus However obscure at first to us, when the Lord does things to us and to our circumstances He never makes a mistake. :)
 

marks

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Now we are called not only to come out of the world but also to come into the promised rest of God. We are called out in order to strive to enter in. We are saved away from death in order to enter the race for life.

John 5
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

So then the Bible does not teach "enter the race for life". The Bible teaches, passing from death into life. So this is error.

Hardly anyone is allowed to see the promised land before the time of entering. There are a few spies that God has allowed in to see and testify to the church of the wonders of the high calling in Christ.

Are there? Who? Who has seen the world to come? A man who was in the 3rd heaven. But he didn't come back to testify. Seems to me this is presumptuous, to say that one now would go beyond what the Bible portrays. He's not allowed to say what he saw, but you say that others are allowed, and are supposed to?

Since this doctrine isn't taught in the Bible, and since the sole example given of such a thing is contrary to your statement, well, sufficient to point that out.

But almost without exception...these voices are not heard. Just like the 12 spies that were sent over Jordan to investigate the promised land. Of these only two had the faith in God to see that it was possible to possess it.

Faith to see? This is really the crux of the matter with this teaching. Trying to turn faith into sight. Think about, and see if you agree, that these doctrines promote that end.

When we are born again...we join the church in the wilderness. Unless there is a revival going on of course. Otherwise, routinely, the church is set up at a half-way point between the world and the kingdom of God. And this is by design.

Again, Really?

We do not join Israel, and we are not in a wilderness, being born again, being in Christ. Many who fail to teach a true faith in Jesus have left Christians with this horribly mistaken idea that we're waiting for some special annointing, some new power to fall upon us, so that we can actually start to live this Christian life. The horror of that teaching is that you end up telling people who have all the power of God available to them that they are weak, and unable.

I can do all things through Christ my strength.

There is no "half-way" between the kingdom of darkness, and the Kingdom of the Son of God. A kingdom of what, twilight? So this is also error.

In every generation and in every place the church needs to come together and seek the Lord for entrance into the promises of God.
Absolutely agreed! Let all who call in truth upon the Lord walk in His promises. Oh! Right. You said, "entrance into the promises of God". We of course have His commitment to us, now. But we do need to start trusting that reality.

The devil will do his utmost to have the people of God believe the wilderness is all there is in this life and stop people from striving to enter into victory with Christ. He will have us believe that the promised land is in a future afterlife...after we are safely dead...and no longer able to challenge his earthly authority.
I can't speak for the devil, aside from what is in the Bible. And I don't see this written there, so I don't have a comment on what may be in Satan's mind.

Seems pretty clear to most the believers I know that God means for us to live a new and good life here, and even better then. This "either/or" is what I'd call a false dichotomy. It's not that we either look for a better life here, or a better life there. We look for both. Perhaps I'm blessed in where I live, maybe this is more clearly taught in my area.

So very few will actually enter into Christ....either as individuals or even less rarely as a victorious body. People have refused the race of faith for so long that practically no one can discern the high calling of God...even when they read about it in the plain text of the bible.

Jesus did say few would be saved. Of course, when you say this, I know you mean something very different. I know you mean that though we be born again, that unless we are enjoying sinless perfection, then we've not been brought by God into Christ, and Outer Darkness awaits.

Unbeliever refuse the race, not to life, not to salvation, the race to reward and glory. Not a race to be saved.

But essentially yet one more thread expressing the error that though men be born again, though men be filled by the Spirit of the Living God, yet this only means a chance for salvation. And that's the worst error of the lot.

Salvation is being immersed into Christ, in His death, and burial, that as He rose from the dead, we have a new live. All who are born again are in Christ.

Always compare what you read to the Bible. And this means you need to know your Bible. And you won't know your Bible if you come to it looking to prove yourself to the world. Only coming as a child, content to read, and believe what you read. And the truth shall set you free.

Much love!
 
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amadeus

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@Episkopos @marks

Hopefully Episkopos won't mind me joining to point out just a few things here.

Do you my friend @marks , really believe that Episkopos comes in here speaking never having heard from God? Does none of what he writes also come from the scriptures and the Holy Spirit? Are only your words the true ones from God or do you also sometimes miss on things? Hey every time any one of us who has not completely overcome as Jesus overcome, quenches the Holy Spirit, we will likely miss that mark. That certainly goes for me too... Episkopos is not standing alone in all these things he writes, so I am also adding a bit if I may. Is none of this from God? Don't try to answer the question.
Episkopos said:
Now we are called not only to come out of the world but also to come into the promised rest of God. We are called out in order to strive to enter in. We are saved away from death in order to enter the race for life.

John 5
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

So then the Bible does not teach "enter the race for life". The Bible teaches, passing from death into life. So this is error.

What would it matter if only dead men ran in the race? No, dead men running are like dead men walking with only death at the end of their pathway. Or would you say that there is no race? Did they not in the OT also speak of running this race?

"I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all." Ecc 9:11

And then in the NT:


"Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us," Heb 12:1

Yes, ultimately I guess to matter in the end, we must have Life at the end... and how does this verse of enduring to the end fit in...?


"And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved." Matt 10:22

Could it mean that we must be running the race all the way to the finish line? Of course we not only need not, but indeed we cannot run all of that way alone.


Episkopos said:
Hardly anyone is allowed to see the promised land before the time of entering. There are a few spies that God has allowed in to see and testify to the church of the wonders of the high calling in Christ.
Are there? Who? Who has seen the world to come? A man who was in the 3rd heaven. But he didn't come back to testify. Seems to me this is presumptuous, to say that one now would go beyond what the Bible portrays. He's not allowed to say what he saw, but you say that others are allowed, and are supposed to?

Since this doctrine isn't taught in the Bible, and since the sole example given of such a thing is contrary to your statement, well, sufficient to point that out.

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12

Does this speak of an instantaneous change or does it speak of a growth... an increase in our ability to see face of God, [remember what God told Moses? (Ex 33:20)], and the things of God? Do we not speak of what God has shown us every time we, you or I or Episkopos, share something that God has shown us? Are we not supposed to do that? Is there not a time to speak as well as a time to be silent? [Ecc 3]

Can Jesus not touch our eyes again after that first touch to improve our vision?

"And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.
And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly." Mark 8:23-25
 
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amadeus

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Episkopos said:

But almost without exception...these voices are not heard. Just like the 12 spies that were sent over Jordan to investigate the promised land. Of these only two had the faith in God to see that it was possible to possess it.

Faith to see? This is really the crux of the matter with this teaching. Trying to turn faith into sight. Think about, and see if you agree, that these doctrines promote that end.
So what then did the Apostle Paul mean when he wrote I Cor 13:12? What did Saul/Paul himself see just after he met Jesus on the road to Damascus? What happened to his vision when he met with Ananias? [Acts 9:17-18]

Then again, why would increasing our faith result in improving our vision so as to see that which God told Moses he could not see? What is faith?


"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Heb 11:1

Will it always be that which we do not see? What is the end of our faith?

"Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God" Heb 12:2


And when faith is finished will that not be at that face to face vision of God? [I Cor 13:12]


And without this vision which David [Ps 27:8] along with Moses sought, what have we according to what Solomon wrote here?


"Where there is no vision, the people perish..." Prov 29:18



Episkopos said:

When we are born again...we join the church in the wilderness. Unless there is a revival going on of course. Otherwise, routinely, the church is set up at a half-way point between the world and the kingdom of God. And this is by design.


Again, Really?
We do not join Israel, and we are not in a wilderness, being born again, being in Christ. Many who fail to teach a true faith in Jesus have left Christians with this horribly mistaken idea that we're waiting for some special annointing, some new power to fall upon us, so that we can actually start to live this Christian life. The horror of that teaching is that you end up telling people who have all the power of God available to them that they are weak, and unable.

I can do all things through Christ my strength.
There is no "half-way" between the kingdom of darkness, and the Kingdom of the Son of God. A kingdom of what, twilight? So this is also error.

Then why did Jesus say these words AFTER calling Lazarus back from the bondage of death?

"... Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go." John 11:44


He had just given Lazarus life, yet he would leave the final loosening from the bondage of the graveclothes in the hands of men! He told them to loose him!


Lazarus was alive again, but unable to untie himself...
 
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amadeus

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@marks
@Episkopos


Episkopos said:

In every generation and in every place the church needs to come together and seek the Lord for entrance into the promises of God.

Absolutely agreed! Let all who call in truth upon the Lord walk in His promises. Oh! Right. You said, "entrance into the promises of God". We of course have His commitment to us, now. But we do need to start trusting that reality.


Episkopos said:

The devil will do his utmost to have the people of God believe the wilderness is all there is in this life and stop people from striving to enter into victory with Christ. He will have us believe that the promised land is in a future afterlife...after we are safely dead...and no longer able to challenge his earthly authority.


I can't speak for the devil, aside from what is in the Bible. And
I don't see this written there , so I don't have a comment on what may be in Satan's mind.
Seems pretty clear to most the believers I know that God means for us to live a new and good life here, and even better then. This "either/or" is what I'd call a false dichotomy. It's not that we either look for a better life here, or a better life there. We look for both. Perhaps I'm blessed in where I live, maybe this is more clearly taught in my area.

"Because all those men which have seen my glory, and my miracles, which I did in Egypt [in the United Kingdom, the United States, Australia, Canada, et al] and in the wilderness, and have tempted me now these ten times, and have not hearkened to my voice;

Surely they shall not see the land which I sware unto their fathers, neither shall any of them that provoked me see it:" Num 14:22-23
What have we seen?

"And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?

Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth." John 9:40-41

"Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip [ marks, Episkopos, et al ]? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?" John 14:9



Episkopos said:

So very few will actually enter into Christ....either as individuals or even less rarely as a victorious body. People have refused the race of faith for so long that practically no one can discern the high calling of God...even when they read about it in the plain text of the bible.

Jesus did say few would be saved. Of course, when you say this, I know you mean something very different. I know you mean that though we be born again, that unless we are enjoying sinless perfection, then we've not been brought by God into Christ, and Outer Darkness awaits.

Unbeliever refuse the race, not to life, not to salvation, the race to reward and glory. Not a race to be saved.
But essentially yet one more thread expressing the error that though men be born again, though men be filled by the Spirit of the Living God, yet this only means a chance for salvation. And that's the worst error of the lot.
But how many scriptures which you have been shown have you either overlooked or ignored the possibility of them meaning what he or myself or others have told you that they meant... because you have already decided what they mean? Is your knowledge so perfect that you walk no where any more by faith? Understood by all of us is that only God gives any increase... but what if He chooses to work through one of us in such an increase? That, of course, could not happen, right?

Salvation is being immersed into Christ, in His death, and burial, that as He rose from the dead, we have a new live. All who are born again are in Christ.

Always compare what you read to the Bible. And this means you need to know your Bible. And you won't know your Bible if you come to it looking to prove yourself to the world. Only coming as a child, content to read, and believe what you read. And the truth shall set you free.
Have not I used the Bible here in what I have written to you? Consider then here the role of the Holy Spirit in this.
 
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Episkopos

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Why is it God's design that we begin our Christian walks in the wilderness? We are to learn faithfulness through suffering.

This is the way of God's training. Of course there will always be people who rebel against this.

We must come through turmoil and tribulation and afterwards receive blessings.

1 Pet. 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

But of course there will be those who claim the blessings first. But these are self-willed and rebellious and don't know God's ways not knowing how carnal they are and having been indoctrinated into a theoretical salvation that is taught by men. These are taught to despise the cross and the need to suffer the loss of self-love and self-will ...claiming to already have the fulness of Christ from the outset of their pseudo-walk.

But God does not save us in the carnal man...but away from it's self-will. We are to follow God's will not our own. We must lay down our agendas and opinions...hence the need to start in the wilderness that these be burned away through the working of God. After that we may enter into God's promises.

We are to learn to sow to the Spirit so that we may reap of the Spirit. If we were already in the land of the Spirit there would be no need to sow to it.

Gal. 6:8 For he that sows to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that sows to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

So we begin as barren according to the Spirit. But this is so we may strive to enter into the abundant land.

Let us run the race of faith into the promises of the Lord. Run to obtain...run to win!
 
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