The Conundrum of Zechariah Ch. 14

[ewq1938]

Please read Genesis chapter 18 and chapter 32:22-32 and you will see two times that Jesus came down to the earth before the first advent

Doesn't mtter if those times were Jesus or not. The first advent is the first, and there is only one more according to the bible.

 

[Marty fox]

Doesn't mtter if those times were Jesus or not. The first advent is the first, and there is only one more according to the bible.

You’re so frustrating every time i show you wrong scripturely you change the rules. You shouldn’t be debating you don’t play by the rules

It was you who said a coming is when Jesus came down from heaven to the earth and I showed twice that He did before He was born and then you say it doesn’t matter and then change from a coming to the first advent? That isn’t fair to any who debates with you and exposes your pride.

Thats okay it’s the scriptures that are the authority.

 

[ewq1938]

You’re so frustrating every time i show you wrong scripturely you change the rules. You shouldn’t be debating you don’t play by the rules

The amount of advents/comings is set by the bible not me. He came when he was born, and scripture speaks of the next one as "the second time". Your frustration is with those.

It was you who said a coming is when Jesus came down from heaven to the earth and I showed twice that He did before He was born and then you say it doesn’t matter and then change from a coming to the first advent? That isn’t fair to any who debates with you and exposes your pride.

Thats okay it’s the scriptures that are the authority.

Doesn't seem to matter as I have referenced how the bible lists Christ's comings/advents as two only. Amill and Pretrib have more than 2.

 

[PeterAndroz]

You’re so frustrating every time i show you wrong scripturely you change the rules. You shouldn’t be debating you don’t play by the rules

It was you who said a coming is when Jesus came down from heaven to the earth and I showed twice that He did before He was born and then you say it doesn’t matter and then change from a coming to the first advent? That isn’t fair to any who debates with you and exposes your pride.

Thats okay it’s the scriptures that are the authority.

Hey MF, I see your point and EQ's
Christophanies for you are the first Christ coming from Heaven to Earth
Where Jesus born of Mary is the first Christ coming from Heaven to Earth event for EQ.
For me, the prophesized Jesus is I believe the first coming.
You probably disagree but that does not mean we don't agree on other topics .

 

[ewq1938]

Hey MF, I see your point and EQ's
Christophanies for you are the first Christ coming from Heaven to Earth

The issue is more that Amill has at least one coming inbetween the first and second coming, as does Pretrib, and the bible does not support this.

 

[PeterAndroz]

The issue is more that Amill has at least one coming inbetween the first and second coming, as does Pretrib, and the bible does not support this.

Currently I'm pretrib, premil yet always willing to politely engage with those who differ.
Taking the mark = go to lake of fire.
Do you believe that also applies to a Eph 4:30 sealed unto redemption believer that takes the 'mark' ?

 

[Marty fox]

The amount of advents/comings is set by the bible not me. He came when he was born, and scripture speaks of the next one as "the second time". Your frustration is with those.




Doesn't seem to matter as I have referenced how the bible lists Christ's comings/advents as two only. Amill and Pretrib have more than 2.

No that’s not true who walked with Adam in the garden?

The bible shows many times that God came to the earth so there can be many coming in judgements

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Hey Si, it's easy to sometime miss points, happens a lot to me too.
>>>>""I believe Matthew 24:15-21 relates to what occurred in 70 AD""

Matt 24:21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Do you believe the 70AD levelling of Jerusalem is a greater tribulation event than :-

View attachment 85677
Or the 1931 China floods :-
View attachment 85678

Jesus was not talking about the greatest tribulation of all-time in terms of one that would kill the most people. Read the text. He said it would be unlike any other great tribulation.

Matthew 24:21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.

What do you think "such as has not been" means? How does that phrase have anything to do with the scope of something in terms of how many people would be killed? It doesn't. That phrase indicates that Jesus was talking about a certain event that would be unlike any other event that had over occurred or would ever occur again afterwards. And that is true about what happened in 70 AD.

Never before or since has a city that was so central to religion, God's people and their place of worship utterly destroyed like Jerusalem was in 70 AD. It even included the destruction of it's most prized religious structure, the second temple, which was the place where God came to meet them and the place where animal sacrifices and offerings were performed. Following the old covenant law of Moses depended on the existence of the second temple. Not only was their city destroyed, but, essentially, so was theri religion. Nothing like that had ever occurred before or since.

Also, the kind of atrocities that occurred within Jerusalem was unprecedented to that extent within any city before. Flavius Josephus wrote about famine, civil war, mass executions, and cannibalism during the siege of Jerusalem. Such as has not been since the beginning of the world or will ever be again in any other city. The entire city was affected by all of the destruction and abominable behavior. Most of the people were killed and the rest were taken captive. It was unlike any other event in the history of the world, which matches what Jesus describes in Matthew 24:21.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Some posts I haven't even read yet let alone able to address them. These days I have other things on my mind sometimes. For one, I'm worried about my wife. Then I come here with the stress of that already having to deal with, then trying to focus on everything in here at the same time. I'm not young anymore. I don't have the same kind of focus I did when I was younger. Plus I'm literally dizzy all of time, might be diabetes but I haven't consulted a dr to find out. So I come here to try and get away from a few things only to find this place more stressful that what I'm trying to get away from for a bit every once awhile. Some of us have real problems in life. I don't have a good and easy life like some of you appear to likely have.

I have a ton of stress in my personal life, so this has nothing to do with that. If you don't have time to follow through on these discussions, then just let us know so that we can know not to respond to all of your points while expecting you to do the same. If we know in advance that you are not planning to address most of our points because of not having the time, then we can know it might not be worth our time to address all of yours.

My wife is more important to me than winning or losing any debates. My wife is not sick or anything, but she just turned 84 in April and I don't know how much more time she has left. I'm younger than her. I married a woman 15 years older than me when I was 25. But I don't expect anyone to have any real empathy for someone like me who can't even see some Scriptures the way they tend to see them. That alone apparently already makes me a foe.

This is not some kind of competition to see whose life is the most stressful. You probably would not even believe all of the stressful things I have going on in my life, but this isn't about that.

And as far as @Marty fox goes, he was never complaining about the manner I address posts, he was complaining that I wasn't addressing his posts. And if what I said to him was rude, it should be equally rude to tell someone to be sure to take off their Amil or Premil glasses first. Since that was basically the sense I was applying this in. Don't blame me. I learned stuff like that from you all and others since I observed people saying things like that to each other while they were debating. But when I say things similar, it equals being rude in my case.

Unless one is thick skinned, maybe they shouldn't be posting in here to begin with?

What was all that stuff you were talking to me about earlier then? I thought you were talking about being more respectful towards each other and such? That's not what you were saying? If so, what were you talking about? You'd prefer that we be rude to each other?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I understand. Focus on your wife. That is more important.

It is frustrating that you make big detailed attacks on Amil and then disappear. Why do that? Just watch on. People take good time to respond in detail to you and you just ignore. You are wasting their time.

Right. That is my issue as well. I'm completely fine with it if he doesn't have time to respond to us, because other things are more important, but it would be better for him not to make long, detailed posts if he doesn't have time to follow up to the responses he gets to them.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The issue is more that Amill has at least one coming inbetween the first and second coming, as does Pretrib, and the bible does not support this.

Please don't confuse people who are not aware of what others believe. You are only talking about partial preterist amills here, not all preterists. Many amills, like me, do not believe that Jesus came in 70 AD in any way, shape or form.

 

[Marty fox]

Some posts I haven't even read yet let alone able to address them. These days I have other things on my mind sometimes. For one, I'm worried about my wife. Then I come here with the stress of that already having to deal with, then trying to focus on everything in here at the same time. I'm not young anymore. I don't have the same kind of focus I did when I was younger. Plus I'm literally dizzy all of time, might be diabetes but I haven't consulted a dr to find out. So I come here to try and get away from a few things only to find this place more stressful that what I'm trying to get away from for a bit every once awhile. Some of us have real problems in life. I don't have a good and easy life like some of you appear to likely have.

My wife is more important to me than winning or losing any debates. My wife is not sick or anything, but she just turned 84 in April and I don't know how much more time she has left. I'm younger than her. I married a woman 15 years older than me when I was 25. But I don't expect anyone to have any real empathy for someone like me who can't even see some Scriptures the way they tend to see them. That alone apparently already makes me a foe.

And as far as @Marty fox goes, he was never complaining about the manner I address posts, he was complaining that I wasn't addressing his posts. And if what I said to him was rude, it should be equally rude to tell someone to be sure to take off their Amil or Premil glasses first. Since that was basically the sense I was applying this in. Don't blame me. I learned stuff like that from you all and others since I observed people saying things like that to each other while they were debating. But when I say things similar, it equals being rude in my case.

Unless one is thick skinned, maybe they shouldn't be posting in here to begin with?

I am sorry to hear about your wife and your troubles Dave, I'm in the same boat as you as my wife is going through breast cancer for the second time in three years, for the second time her beautiful hair is gone. Her outlook looks okay but its been a couple of rough roads but through this all God has been good so I know what you mean about coming to escape a stressful life.

So yes we get frustrated and vent at times as we are still human, but I don't recall ever saying "take off their Amil or Premil glasses first.". Was that me?