The Conundrum of Zechariah Ch. 14

[Marty fox]

You continue to not understand what he is saying. He is not saying that Jerusalem was still the holy city or that the physical temple was still holy at that time. He is saying that they were destroyed because of foolishly thinking that it was still the holy city and that the temple was still holy despite Jesus telling them that their temple was rendered to them desolate around 40 years prior (Matthew 23:37-38). They foolishly kept themselves under the curse of the old covenant law rather than embracing Jesus Christ and the new covenant established by His blood. So, God took His wrath out on them as a result and even made it so that the ones who survived literally could not continue foolishly performing old covenant sacrifices at the temple any longer since it obviously was destroyed.


Do you actually think that Marty is claiming this? He is not. You're making a strawman argument here. Please try to read what he's saying more carefully.

Yes they are listening with closed ears not even trying to understand what I,m saying it’s a waste of time

 

[Marty fox]

Do you really believe that Marty? The Old Covenant served a specific purpose; the Law was their tutor to drive them to Christ long before He came. Do you really believe the literal city, and temple would have remained standing to be thought the holy city and temple after Christ, the True Temple ushered in Jerusalem from above the True Holy City of God? How would that have worked, since it had never worked before?

It wasn't in keeping the Law that Jews of Old were eternally saved. It was keeping the Law while believing in the promised Messiah who was ordained to come to be the Savior. Keeping the Law apart from faith saved no one.

70 AD is insignificant! It just happens to be when the literal destruction happened. What is significant is that the Old was from the beginning of creation ordained to pass away once Christ came. God does not share His glory with anyone or anything! That's why Scripture tells us that Christ is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Not because the Jews rejected God, choosing to cling to the Old rather than embracing Him. NO, it is because MANKIND rejected God from the beginning of creation. The temporary Old was always destined to be done away, not because there was something wrong with the Law, but because the Law could not take away man's sin, it could only clean them outwardly.

No that’s not what I’m saying or believe at all

I didn’t say any of that

Why did Jesus say the city would be destroyed below?

Luke 19
41 And when he drew near and saw the city, he wept over it, 42 saying, “Would that you, even you, had known on this day the things that make for peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes. 43 For the days will come upon you, when your enemies will set up a barricade around you and surround you and hem you in on every side 44 and tear you down to the ground, you and your children within you. And they will not leave one stone upon another in you, because you did not know the time of your visitation.”

 

[Marty fox]

Yep, you shall see. :-)



Why not? Jealous for some attention?



Why should I? I can do whatever I want with my post. I decided to use it as a response to RWB to correct your interpretation. Got your attention? Looks like it worked.



Because it is. I can clearly see that Marty and your so-called "40 years probation" as the reason is absurd.



First, nothing in the Scripture that teaches the 70 AD was the wrath of God or anything like that. You got the timing wrong anyway as you shall see.



Ahh, let see...



Ahem...looks like a time to correct your interpretation because you did not listen well in the past.

While the parable in Matthew 22 talks about armies, it's quite obvious that they are NOT literal/physical armies of Earthly kingdom anymore than Revelation talks about physical armies, horsemen, or cities being destroyed. And people who think so follow the same carnal logic to come to those conclusions. Joel 2 talks about the Lord's army that he sent among the children of Zion, and talks about their restoration as through Calvary. This of course all taking place before and at the cross. Not your precious 70A.D.

Joel 2:28

• "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:"

This "afterward" is the aftermath of the destruction caused by the King's army, which of course clearly speaks of the restoration of the congregation of God in the New Testament through the cross of Christ. It has NOTHING to do with your Roman armies of 70 A.D., but of fulfillment in Christ. Selah! As it is written:

Acts 2:16-17

• "But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
• And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:"

As we've been saying all along, there is the fulfillment of the destruction of the city, the people fallen, and its restoration in Christ Jesus. The Biblical fact is, the Lord has restored the captivity, not will restore it as many teach. The restoration has already been taken place through Christ once, and for all.

Second, the parable of Matthew 22 says NOT ONE WORD about waiting until 70 A.D. to bring about the destruction of the city and people, or about a Roman army being the Lord's, or about a ruler Titus or any of the other alleged proofs some offer as support for their Physical city destruction supposition, blah, blah, blah. This, when it seems perfectly clear God is not talking about a physical city within Israel, but the whole congregation of Israel, using the holy city as the kingdom representation! They have the kingdom no more, and haven't since it was taken from them at the cross. Hello?!

Matthew 21:43

• "Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."

(Continue to next post)

Why did Jesus say that the city would be destroyed below?

Luke 19
41 And when he drew near and saw the city, he wept over it, 42 saying, “Would that you, even you, had known on this day the things that make for peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes. 43 For the days will come upon you, when your enemies will set up a barricade around you and surround you and hem you in on every side 44 and tear you down to the ground, you and your children within you. And they will not leave one stone upon another in you, because you did not know the time of your visitation.”

You keep avoiding this

 

[rwb]

Yes they are listening with closed ears not even trying to understand what I,m saying it’s a waste of time

I hear what you're saying Marty, but I wonder if you hear me? I realize trying to show a Preterit why their doctrine is built upon sand is a waste of time. But, I also see how this unbiblical doctrine is making progress, deceiving many into believing Christ was not consumed with what would become of His spiritual people; i.e. the church, because He was preoccupied with what was to come of His biological seeds of the flesh.

Why don't you explain why ALL that Christ said must come to pass within this generation's natural lifespan? Why are you focused only on the destruction in 70 AD while ignoring the FACT that your doctrine cannot be truth because not ALL that Christ said must come to pass did come to pass by then?

Preterits find literal, physical fulfillment in the destruction, but you cannot prove after the great tribulation against "this generation" the sun was darkened, the stars fell from heaven etc. etc. etc. Why can't you prove the sign of the Son of man has already literally, physically appeared, and all the tribes of the earth already mourned when they saw the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and glory? Thy typical Preterit will argue for spiritual fulfillment of these things rather than to admit their doctrine is built upon the sand. In fact the typical Preterit will continually jump from literal/physical fulfillment of all that Christ spoke when He walked the earth a man, to spiritualizing, arguing whatever cannot be physically proven MUST HAVE BEEN spiritually fulfilled. Very convenient and unbiblical way for discerning Scripture.

Matthew 24:29-34 (KJV) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

 

[rwb]

No that’s not what I’m saying or believe at all

I didn’t say any of that

Why did Jesus say the city would be destroyed below?

Luke 19
41 And when he drew near and saw the city, he wept over it, 42 saying, “Would that you, even you, had known on this day the things that make for peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes. 43 For the days will come upon you, when your enemies will set up a barricade around you and surround you and hem you in on every side 44 and tear you down to the ground, you and your children within you. And they will not leave one stone upon another in you, because you did not know the time of your visitation.”

Then perhaps you should explain more clearly why you appear to believe Christ was more preoccupied with what would become of the apostate nation of Israel, than He was concerned of what would come against the spiritual Kingdom of God as the Gospel of Christ is proclaimed unto all the nations of the earth?

 

[TribulationSigns]

You keep avoiding this

No, your asked BECAUSE you didn’t read careful what I wrote OR you simple do not like what you read. You need to read my quote again and again and again regard the CITY:

“Second, the parable of Matthew 22 says NOT ONE WORD about waiting until 70 A.D. to bring about the destruction of the city and people, or about a Roman army being the Lord's, or about a ruler Titus or any of the other alleged proofs some offer as support for their Physical city destruction supposition, blah, blah, blah. This, when it seems perfectly clear God is not talking about a physical city within Israel, but the whole congregation of Israel, using the holy city as the kingdom representation! They have the kingdom no more, and haven't since it was taken from them at the cross. Hello?!

Matthew 21:43

• "Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."

Moreover, as I said before, if the destruction was of a physical city, then obviously, rationally and logically the rebuilding would have to be of thatsame alleged physical city. It didn't! Clearly the parable illustrates the rebuilding is the New Testament congregation. Why? Because the destruction was the Old Testament congregation. (Chuckle) People like you are just not thinking clearly or using a sound hermeneutic when they inconsistently see a "literal/physical place" instead of the Lord's covenanted people represented by Jerusalem.”

That is the city Christ talked about!

Selah!

 

[TribulationSigns]

Yes they are listening with closed ears not even trying to understand what I,m saying it’s a waste of time

Actually it’s you two who are having discernment issue. Blind with carnal interpretation…just like the Jews in Christ’s day. BYE!