The Cup of Salvations

[marks]

We should look to God for a new salvation. A new and fresh filling of the Spirit. Going to the throne room of God to receiver more grace...an abundant grace in time of need. To fill our lamps anew with oil. (of course they who se salvation as a one time event will NOT go back for a refill...so that their lamps run out of oil).

This rather strongly mis-states the view of many who see salvation as occuring at a certain time in rebirth, that rebirth being permanent.

Will not go back for a refill?

Does anyone here actually think this way? We are saved once, and never after that receive a filling of the Spirit? Never after that go to His throne for grace?

 

[marks]

And what of they who are in Christ that walk not after the Spirit but after the flesh?

Those who are in Christ and walk after the flesh? I don't think that's Biblical terminology, or how God talks about this. There are those who are in Christ, and those who are in the flesh, those who walk after the Spirit, and those who walk after the flesh.

Romans 8
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

This passage shows the difference between those who walk after the Spirit and those who walk after the flesh. The difference is not a matter of behavior. It's the difference between the carnal fleshy mind and the spiritual mind, and how this is matter of whether or not the Spirit of Christ is in us. And if Christ is not in you, you are not any of His.

This passages shows the difference between these, not that those "in Christ" may somehow be "after the flesh".

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Not everyone who has the Spirit dwelling in them sows to the Spirit. As Paul says to the foolish Galatians...having begun in the Spirit but now being made perfect by other means.

And this is separate from having the Spirit of Christ dwelling within.

So then we can be both His AND carnal...missing the true path. That's the point of the judgment for believers.

So it would seem that it is an anomaly for Christians to fail grace...until you look more closely...to realize that many will do so.

 

[marks]

Not everyone who has the Spirit dwelling in them sows to the Spirit. As Paul says to the foolish Galatians...having begun in the Spirit but now being made perfect by other means.

And this is separate from having the Spirit of Christ dwelling within.

So then we can be both His AND carnal...missing the true path. That's the point of the judgment for believers.

So it would seem that it is an anomaly for Christians to fail grace...until you look more closely...to realize that many will do so.

Good passage . . .

Galatians 5
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
{adding works}

3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
{if you want to try by works}
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
{fallen from grace, trying to stand on how good you are}
5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
{the righteousness of God that is by faith, this is what we are waiting for}

Galatians 3
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

By works of law, or hearing of faith?

Begun in the Spirit . . . that is, hearing of faith. Made perfect by the flesh . . . that is, by works of law.

Much love!

 

[marks]

The Christian who is still carnal, that is, fleshy, is the one who tries to add their own things to God's works. All such is carnal, as it comes from the flesh. We have His righteousness. We await His righteousness. He has made us righteous. It all comes from Him.

Whenever we feel less than, rather than find something we can do to make ourselves feel "more righteous", well, naturally, if we are doing something we think we shouldn't be, stop, and we'll feel better right away! But our righteousness is from God. Nothing we do can make us any more or less righteous than God has already made us.

Doing righteous acts is what we are to do. To show righteousness in our lives not because we add righteousness to ourselves in doing it, but because this is who is born from above.

Much love!

 

[marks]

So it would seem that it is an anomaly for Christians to fail grace...until you look more closely...to realize that many will do so.

So many, for so many reasons, I think, lack the faith to stand in grace. There are so many false messages going around that rob people of their confidence before God.

Much love!

 

[Stan B]

Ps. 116:13 I will take the cup of salvations, and call upon the name of the LORD.

In the Hebrew way of thinking...salvation is plural. Just like the above verse...which because it involves a different mindset...has been erringly translated into the singular. But in the Hebrew it is plural.

I checked over 50 different translations, and they all say "salvation". Considering the high end skills of all these teams of translators, I will definitely go with their translations.

 

[marks]

We are sealed into the coming judgment for the house of the Lord. And that judgment is going to be a fierce one.

We are to walk in the good works of heaven. If we don't bear an eternal fruit we could be cast out....beyond the gates of Jerusalem.

Rather . . . we are sealed into the family of God, His beloved children.

But there will indeed be a fierce judgment!

 

[marks]

And this works for both the future AND the past. We can't live in either of them. We live in the present. And it is today that we need to walk in faith and faithfulness. So we can't justify a present failure because of a past salvation. That would be looking back. We need to ever fix our eyes above on the Lord...now.

Rather, we live in Christ.

WE don't justify Anything. But our relationship with Jesus isn't based on our present faithfulness, as if by my Perception of good behavior in myself will convince God to love me more or accept me more than He already has in Christ.

 

[Episkopos]

I checked over 50 different translations, and they all say "salvation". Considering the high end skills of all these teams of translators, I will definitely go with their translations.

High end skills in languages doesn't mean understanding or accuracy of translation...since what isn't being understood is being passed over. A different language requires a different sensitivity to things like context. So then when a word leaves it's natural state...like the word "salvation" which is singular in nature (unlike words like heavens or waters or life)...it needs to be understood that this is on purpose.

So the Masoretic text says...

יג כּוֹס-יְשׁוּעוֹת אֶשָּׂא; וּבְשֵׁם יְהוָה אֶקְרָא.

Here "yeshouot" is plural meaning "salvations". And this is very specific although the translators for some reason chose to ignore that.

 

[Stan B]

High end skills in languages doesn't mean understanding or accuracy of translation...since what isn't being understood is being passed over. A different language requires a different sensitivity to things like context. So then when a word leaves it's natural state...like the word "salvation" which is singular in nature (unlike words like heavens or waters or life)...it needs to be understood that this is on purpose.

So the Masoretic text says...

יג כּוֹס-יְשׁוּעוֹת אֶשָּׂא; וּבְשֵׁם יְהוָה אֶקְרָא.

Here "yeshouot" is plural meaning "salvations". And this is very specific although the translators for some reason chose to ignore that.

And what are the chances that original texts, having been copied and recopied over a couple thousand years may have the odd typo here and there?

Taken in context of what is said so many times elsewhere in the Bible, I am satisfied that the translators made right choice.

 

[FollowHim]

In Christ one salvation is being built upon the other. Just like an upper room is built upon a ground floor.

Now some who have entered into the salvation of Christ on the ground floor will refuse to believe that there is more to it than that. The belief they started with they now shut off...as if the act of believing was no longer required. These will compare themselves with what they used to be...or else compare themselves with people that are yet in the world and unsaved and be happy with that first level of salvation so as to remain there...or at least desire to remain there. As such.... such a person could justify himself to remain where he is...and not press on. But God expects more than we do. We don't get to call the game is over. God decides these things...not us. And this brings a huge problem.

Now this happens a lot...and this is the purpose of this thread.

Just like when Jesus healed the 10 lepers and only one returned to Him. Jesus asked. I healed 10...where are the other 9?

Do we think that the other 9 ex-lepers were concerned at all about disappointing the Lord? Not at all. They got what they wanted and moved on.

And the churches are full of people like that.

This reminds me of the debate about the baptism in the Holy Spirit.
Some felt until this emotional euphoric experience happened you were not saved.
But then people found they had recurring experiences, but different.

So some began to realise this is in filling of the Holy Spirit, anointing, drawing in, refreshing, renewing, cleansing, embracing, empowering.
As a walk there is not an event, each step is an event.

Salvation begins with the first step with Jesus, the revelation of need is God giving us new birth in the seed of His word.
So many want this event to be a anchor, a bringing to life that can never be lost no matter what follows, except Jesus tells us, the seed can be snatched away, not take root, not embed. My whole life is a testimony to Gods word embedding in me, and changing me.

I remember as a youngster feeling refreshed after a church service, but not knowing why. One can live religion like this, sailing on a wave of something, and then pinning it on sacrements, or ceremony, or songs, or type of service.

I think the truth is people in their hearts either open up to God and He can move, or they stay closed. Often only at the end do you really see the fruit of what has taken place. Psalm 1 sums it up quite well.

1 Blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked or stand in the way of sinners or sit in the seat of mockers.
2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD, and on his law he meditates day and night.
3 He is like a tree planted by streams of water, which yields its fruit in season and whose leaf does not wither. Whatever he does prospers.
Psalm 1:1-3

 

[Episkopos]

This reminds me of the debate about the baptism in the Holy Spirit.
Some felt until this emotional euphoric experience happened you were not saved.
But then people found they had recurring experiences, but different.

So some began to realise this is in filling of the Holy Spirit, anointing, drawing in, refreshing, renewing, cleansing, embracing, empowering.
As a walk there is not an event, each step is an event.

Salvation begins with the first step with Jesus, the revelation of need is God giving us new birth in the seed of His word.
So many want this event to be a anchor, a bringing to life that can never be lost no matter what follows, except Jesus tells us, the seed can be snatched away, not take root, not embed. My whole life is a testimony to Gods word embedding in me, and changing me.

I remember as a youngster feeling refreshed after a church service, but not knowing why. One can live religion like this, sailing on a wave of something, and then pinning it on sacrements, or ceremony, or songs, or type of service.

I think the truth is people in their hearts either open up to God and He can move, or they stay closed. Often only at the end do you really see the fruit of what has taken place. Psalm 1 sums it up quite well.

1 Blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked or stand in the way of sinners or sit in the seat of mockers.
2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD, and on his law he meditates day and night.
3 He is like a tree planted by streams of water, which yields its fruit in season and whose leaf does not wither. Whatever he does prospers.
Psalm 1:1-3

The problem we see in todays' church is that we have lost the measuring rod.

The walk of faith begins with a binary shift to wards God and away from the world.

But after that there is very little understanding, knowledge or wisdom. Most people remain stuck in first gear all their lives.

The warnings of the bible are rarely heeded. After one has been converted to Christ there is the danger of

1 Always learning but never coming to the knowledge of the truth
2. having a form of godliness but deny the power of God.
3. Seeking to be perfected by other means than the Spirit.
4. Becoming more and more religious

etc...

The church holds out no standard of spiritual maturity because the perfection of Christ in a earthen vessels is denied. So then it's every man for himself...with people judging themselves and justifying themselves.

There will never be any unity based on a lack of a standard. So then all the flowery words people use to describe their improvement tend to deceive.

What are we becoming? What are we being saved to?

The beginning of the walk is binary...then we go into a growth curve...only to get back to a binary shift again at a high level...that of entering into the spiritual realm.And this corresponds to leaving Egypt...advancing in the wilderness and entering the promised land. But most never enter in...due to a lack of knowledge, wisdom and understanding.

So it is binary, then analog, then binary again. Who can understand that?

 

[FollowHim]

The problem we see in todays' church is that we have lost the measuring rod.

The walk of faith begins with a binary shift to wards God and away from the world.

But after that there is very little understanding, knowledge or wisdom. Most people remain stuck in first gear all their lives.

The warnings of the bible are rarely heeded. After one has been converted to Christ there is the danger of

1 Always learning but never coming to the knowledge of the truth
2. having a form of godliness but deny the power of God.
3. Seeking to be perfected by other means than the Spirit.
4. Becoming more and more religious

etc...

The church holds out no standard of spiritual maturity because the perfection of Christ in a earthen vessels is denied. So then it's every man for himself...with people judging themselves and justifying themselves.

There will never be any unity based on a lack of a standard. So then all the flowery words people use to describe their improvement tend to deceive.

What are we becoming? What are we being saved to?

The beginning of the walk is binary...then we go into a growth curve...only to get back to a binary shift again at a high level...that of entering into the spiritual realm.And this corresponds to leaving Egypt...advancing in the wilderness and entering the promised land. But most never enter in...due to a lack of knowledge, wisdom and understanding.

So it is binary, then analog, then binary again. Who can understand that?

I would suggest there is a lack of discussion and debate of the important issues in life.
Our lives are now full of too many distractions and in urban life relationships can easily become very superficial.
We meet people because of an activity, but only that activity. To go deeper is not possible, and people make up their minds and leave it alone.

A discussion with my daughter is fairly classic. I put forward that GMO crops have a problem with them, containment and predictability. Rather than investigating the different opinions or seeing what is expressed, obviously GMO is a good idea and only fearful people oppose it. Unfortunately faith falls into these categories. It is hard to open up and be honest about things one has no answer to, like emotional thorns and thistles.

I once was sitting next of an elderly lady in church and shared about being more open with our hearts. She then told me that her husband had died 6 weeks previously, not in an open inviting way, but to shut me up. It was like saying Jesus cannot address this pain and grief, so take your theories away. Years later I got to know this lady better, and we shared about some of our struggles in the Lord and in life. But when people find so few who know how to love, have empathy and being the Lords peace, it is a very scary road, and they feel safer hiding.

Cross the divide, walking in the light, helping to carry one anothers burdens is part of our walk in Christ. When people live so alone, and no one reaches out to them to be alongside, where is Christ and His love shown to them in practical ways.
God bless you

 

[FollowHim]

Linear thought.

As humans we can only take in one issue at a time. We work the issue through and come to a conclusion.
This causes a problem, because life is full of so many issues, and we act and behave on a massive set of conclusions we have built up over a lifetime.

And to reform and remake these conclusions takes time, while we are automatically responding to them every day.
So I can say one sentence, and it means a variety of different things to the audience, though in my context, I will mean it one way.
I am not "right", it will be an expression of who I am and my journey.

I do tend though to get overly enthusiastic over each new discovery that changes my perspective, as this change is the most important one possible, and everyone should have this, because it will change everything in the world. But that is the problem of being a thinker, and working things through, because when you get to this level, it is true, the insight is normally foundational.

A for instance, is Gods foreknowledge of Adams fall, and God creating the possibility of rebellion and death coming into the world.
It is impossible to ignore God chose to create before Adam the choice of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and to know Adam would choose death. Equally He knew reconciliation would only be through the cross ultimately, through seeing who Jesus is and how this impacts both who we are and what we need to do.

So some this is knowing many would be destroyed in the lake of fire. But I am ok with this, because the wicked are chaff, to be burnt up and destroyed. They are given the gift of life and the opportunity to seek and find God. The blessing of life is such a gift, it is better to live and died and be destroyed than never to have existed.

4 Not so the wicked! They are like chaff that the wind blows away.
5 Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgement, nor sinners in the assembly of the righteous
Psalm 1:4-5

12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire
Matt 3:12

Chaff is the husk of a wheat seed, it is nothing but a covering. Without the Lord in our lives, we are just this built up set of reactions that defend us and make life work, but at the core, nothing. Jesus declares we need to be this seed, this essential together individual founded in Gods love and the eternal realities. In a sense if we cannot make life here work and the relationships we have, how could we expect this to be any different for eternity with God. We would at our core destroy everything God is trying to create and if resolved, we would disintegrate into a heap on the floor.

This is why life is so fragile, that we are suspended in love for our parents, our friends, our family but if defence is our only security, Jesus can never come in, and we will fail when eternal reality comes face to face with chaff.

A counter image is man has innate value that God can transform instantly upon death into a righteous loving individual, who is eternal because they have trusted Jesus and confessed His name. This is like a jigsaw fitting puzzle, taking Jesus and salvation for a sinner and plugging the two together with nothing in between or understanding the heart of man or how God is speaking to us.

So my revelation of Gods foreknowledge of Adams fall, was that is was inevitable if Gods people would rise as brothers and friends with Jesus.
But it also shapes what we mean by lostness, the lake of fire and what our focus in the christian walk is. It is love and relationship. It is openness and bearing pain with forgiveness. The order though is critical, because it is only possible because Christ dwells in our hearts and love has been set free to rule. God bless you

 

[Episkopos]

They are given the gift of life and the opportunity to seek and find God. The blessing of life is such a gift, it is better to live and died and be destroyed than never to have existed.

This is touching on the subject of the OP...so I would add in that knowing God directly is the narrow way. Walking in His ways according to His power. Very few will do that.

But salvation is also at a lower standard than that. A standard that all men can attain to IF they but humble themselves. To do as we ought is equivalent to knowing Him since if we knew Him we would do this at the very least.


Jer. 22:15-6
Shalt thou reign, because thou closest thyself in cedar? did not thy father eat and drink, and do judgment and justice, and then it was well with him?
He judged the cause of the poor and needy; then it was well with him: was not this to know me? saith the LORD.


Acts 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

 

[Episkopos]

People easily confuse the salvations of God...and mix them up so as to negate both ways.

The basic salvation is based on doing what is right...like Scrooge in the "Christmas story"...he repented from his evil selfish ways...and began to fear the Lord and do what is right. God approves of this...to love others as oneself. To forsake evil and do good. We see this as the law of righteousness in Ez. chapters 18 and 33. God doesn't change.

The gospel speaks of a higher salvation. A salvation unto glory. But this road is so difficult that most will never make it. Jesus said that few will be able to enter into this way of glory...it's just that hard.

But the modern doctrines show us...wrongly...that the basic salvation is just believing in Jesus...by faith alone.

Actually the faith OF Jesus that brings an immediate eternal life is the HARD road....not the easy road. So then people get deceived.

The way of faith is very difficult. It is likened to running a race where only one wins....being an Olympic athlete....or else a soldier who forsakes the world to go to war.
What seduces people then...is the idea of easy glory...or vain glory. But this is a trap. A trap that is laid for they who love luxury and pleasure but hate the truth.

The saints shall rule over the righteous in eternity. The saints walk in a full victory over sin by grace through faith. These are very few. The righteous sin and stumble but remain humble and maintain a repentant attitude. These are many. And God is merciful to they who don't judge or claim any special status...but that of being just a sinner.

So then Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL men...but especially they that believe. We will all be judged against what we have been given. If you have received grace...then run to win.

 

[Episkopos]

In the kingdom of God there are no idle rich. They who will rule over you in the next age will have paid the price in this life. There is no easy path to glory. It takes everything you have.

The kingdom of God is like a treasure buried in a field. To get it one must sell ALL to buy it. That is the standard of Christ and glory.

The cost of glory in the next age is everything we have and are in this age.

There are no shortcuts around the cross that lead to life and glory. And few will heed this and be willing to lose everything in order to win Christ. Few will becomes as soldiers and athletes to compete and win in the trials of this life.

 

[Episkopos]

I like watching the Olympic games...especially the winter Olympics. Now few participate but many watch. I'm a watcher...not an athlete.

The race of faith is like the Olympics. Very few will actually participate. And today not many really care about who is running and winning. Such is the apathy of the church today. But there is a competition going on. There is a race for they who love the truth.


2 Timothy 2:5

5 And if a man also strive for masteries, (athleo) yet is he not crowned, except he strive (athleo) lawfully.

The Greek athleo is the root of athlete in English. We are competing in the race of faith. Or we are at least becoming interested in the games. Many are called to participate or attend...but few will dare to compete.

Run to win.

 

[Taken]

The Cup of Salvations
OP^

There is Gods saving of people with food, with disease healing...
And then, they died.
However:
Jesus revealed an other "hidden bread/manna" that Saves ONCE and Forever, a man's soul.

John 6:
[58] This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live forever.

Rev 2:
[17] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Glory to God,
Taken