The Current State of Christianity

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Have you seen the unity of the faith?

  • Yes

    Votes: 4 57.1%
  • No

    Votes: 3 42.9%

  • Total voters
    7

TheHolyBookEnds

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I was curious if anyone here had ever looked up a photograph of Armageddon. It's about the size of a good-sized Shopping Mall. (Just an interesting point to ponder.)
Could you elaborate on that please Willie T.? I do not understand your meaning. Are you referring to a town on a tel in the east?

From what I understand "Armageddon" (Mountain of Megiddo, refering to Mt. Carmel itself, north of the valley and waters thereof, Kishon, where Elijah stood against the prophets of Baal (1 Ki. 18:40), for the control of hearts of the congregation, and afterward saw the cloud come (the sign of the coming of the son of man), even tied to another phrase the Har Mowed or Moh-gehd (mount of gathering) in Isa. 14:13 etc) to be refers to several instances in scripture in type (Jehoshaphat), to be seen in the greater global spiritual antitype. First was the local natural, now the greater global spiritual, like as 1 Cor. 10 and 1 Cor. 15:46.
 
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Enoch111

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From what I understand "Armageddon" (Mountain of Megiddo, refering to Mt. Carmel itself,
Actually Mt Carmel and Mt Megiddo (Har Megiddo) are not identical. It is in the valley of Jezreel (roughly 380 square kilometers) that the battle of Armageddon will take place, and this valley extends from Mt Carmel to Bethshan, with Megiddo in between.
 
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brakelite

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That would be a rather strange unity if believers were united to the Father and Christ but not to each other! Indeed Scripture says otherwise --
that they may be one, as we are.

So the comparison is between the perfect unity of the Father and the Son and the desire that "they" (the apostles or "the men which thou gavest me out of the world" ) may also be "one" (perfectly united). But this goes beyond the apostles since Paul urges all Christians to maintain "the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace" (Eph 4:3).
I agree. But any unity with one another is contingent on our unity with the Father, through His Son. It is that unity with the Father that Jesus had, that we also need. Jesus knew what the priority was/is. Like two lines coming from different poles converging on one point, they become more in union with one another the closer they come to that distant point. Like in marriage. Two spouses will unite to a far greater extent the closer each individual comes to Christ. Our unity with one another is a natural fruit of our relationship with God.
I wrote the following 5 years ago...I believe it is still relevant,
There is a cry going forth from mainstream Christianity that the current disunity within Christendom needs to be addressed, and that uniting on those points upon which all can agree must be pursued with vigor in order to keep the Christian message alive and relevant to a post-modern society. Whilst it is indeed true that the number of Christian denominations, and independent churches,are many, and increasing exponentially, ‘unity’ at all costs, particularly at the cost of truth, must be avoided by any and all means.

The Bible tells us (for those who claim the name of Christ and still believe in the Bible) that the time is coming that the only denominations will be those who have accepted the mark of the beast and are worshiping according to the government dictates. They are the daughters of the Mother, Babylon the Great. Because they have left the truth, they have become harlots in the same character as their mother from whom they originally came. This will leave only a small minority, a united movement who resist the majority traditions and pressures of the NWO, If they were at any stage a denomination, it has long been annulled by government decree due to their practicing their religion according to the Bible, and the Bible only. Teaching the true gospel, they will be accused of hate speech, hated of all nations for Christ’s sake, and be considered the execration of society. Accused of being the cause of God’s judgments falling upon the earth, they will in the end be sentenced to death. This is they who keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus.(Revel. 12:17; 14:12)
Assisi1986.jpg
They are the only ones patiently waiting for Christ’s coming. And the only ones to be translated when He appears in glory. The majority have long given up hope of the second coming; the Bible is no longer seen as relevant to modern society, its history shrouded even now in doubt and skepticism; and doctrine no longer viewed as necessary to salvation, because today there are as many roads that lead to heaven as there are that lead to Rome.
The minority believers are united in the cause for truth, in the preaching of truth in the power of the Holy Spirit, in the living of truth by their living faith in the grace of God. One with Jesus and the Father, empowered by the Spirit of God, they love one another and their chief priority in life is to see as many people as possible come out of Babylon into a saving relationship with Christ.
They have a Truth they know is not to be compromised, and with courage and selfless love for lost souls, they repudiate everything not in harmony with that Truth.
Soon “let us be united” will be the rallying cry of the majority. And unite they will, but under a banner of error and deception.
Beware of false calls to unity. Have a look at Matthew 24:4-9. Note that up to the first part of verse 7, the world is in utter disarray. Wars and rumors of wars, nation against nation, kingdom against kingdom. This has been the state of this world since Cain slew Abel. Conflict has been the one constant thread that is woven throughout human history. But note that in verse 9 there is a major shift. We see the nations of the world united for the very first time…united against the church! But let us pause a little and also consider Revelation 13:3…all the world wondered after the beast…. 8: and all that dwell upon the earth shall worship.…14: and deceiveth them that dwell upon the earth…The whole world is going to be deceived into false worship. This will not be Islam. Babylon the Great is a symbol of the Roman Catholic Church. The world will be deceived into worshiping according to Roman tradition; they will believe they are worshiping according to the truth, for they are deceived. Thus the final great conflict of the ages is not between atheism and theism, but will be between two brothers, one worshiping according to truth and revelation, the other according to tradition and occultist and demonic new age philosophy. An end time repeat of Cain and Abel. What evils and wickedness that permeated religious intolerance during the 1ooo odd years of papal dominion in Europe during the dark ages will be repeated on a global scale with as much ardor, fanaticism, and violence as the worst of the inquisitions of the past.

Our allegiances in those days will not about denominations but about truth and obedience to the commandments of God as opposed to the commandments of men.

The coming separation of Christianity under the aegis of the false prophet is the separation we ought to be more concerned about. For then there will be only two sides. How do you know you wont be deceived along with the rest of the world? How do you know you aren’t already deceived and ripe picking for the coming NWO? What is it about your beliefs and faith that makes you different from the vast majority of Christianity who will take the side of the Antichrist and worship the beast and his image?
 
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JesusIsFaithful

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We need to go with the flow of events in Revelation 19. And there we see (1) the Marriage of the Lamb, (2) the Second Coming of Christ with His saints, and (3) the King of kings and Lord of lords coming to destroy His enemies at the battle of Armageddon.

And He is no longer the Bridegroom but the Husband of the Lamb's Wife.

Are we seeing the same thing? I see this as a commentary of what had happened in regards to fallen Babylon in Revelation 18th chapter. Since the 3 angels are setting up the hour of temptation that shall try all upon the earth, the first with the everlasting gospel so that every one will know it, and then the calamity of fire that will destroy one third of the earth heralded by the second angel that will set the ball rolling for the new world order and the mark of the beast system to survive on the rest of the 2 / 3 rds of the earth which the third angel will inform every one the consequence for taking the mark of the beast to buy and sell to survive will be the lake of fire no matter what. Revelation 14:6-11

So that second angel puts Revelation 18th chapter as the destruction before the coming of the great tribulation. Since time is elapsing before the King of kings comes at the end of the great tribulation, that puts the Marriage of the Lamb as happening in Heaven before those 3 angels sets everything up.

Revelation 19th chapter has to be read with the understanding of what is happening in the rest of the Book of Revelation in regards to those events.

I think we are saying the same thing, but for some reason, I cannot recall whether you believe in the pre great trib rapture or not. Sorry if ya did.
 

JesusIsFaithful

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Did you send your wife an invitation to her own wedding? I bet that went well. How silly.

Stranger

It has copyrighted on this page so you will just have to read the whole thing, I guess, but if you can scroll down to "The Nissuin - Marriage Itself" in the blue sub heading, it should explain after that what I am trying to share with you, Stranger.

http://www.messianicfellowship.50webs.com/wedding.html

A second source is a pdf one btw.

http://thectp.org/Notes/Bride/Bride_2.pdf
 
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TheHolyBookEnds

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Actually Mt Carmel and Mt Megiddo (Har Megiddo) are not identical. It is in the valley of Jezreel (roughly 380 square kilometers) that the battle of Armageddon will take place, and this valley extends from Mt Carmel to Bethshan, with Megiddo in between.
What I am saying is, I do not believe the 'tel' of the city there presently is what is being referred to, but instead the actual "mountain" of the area, being Carmel is the Mountain of Megiddo. Neither do I believe in any localized endtime battle in that area over there, but rather it takes place on a much greater scale, spiritually, anbd globally.
 

Willie T

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I don't think my question was very hard to understand. I asked if anyone had "ever looked up a photograph of Armageddon." Nothing more and nothing less.
 
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TheHolyBookEnds

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I don't think my question was very hard to understand. I asked if anyone had "ever looked up a photograph of Armageddon." Nothing more and nothing less.
Well, I have to understand what you mean by that (Armageddon), don't I? As it was not defined.
 

Enoch111

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Neither do I believe in any localized endtime battle in that area over there, but rather it takes place on a much greater scale, spiritually, and globally.
Well we can't just spiritualize Scripture as we please. That has led to a lot of confusion and spiritual error.

There are multiple Scriptures which refer to this end time battle, and they all focus on Jerusalem and Har Megiddo (Armageddon).
 

Reggie Belafonte

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I agree. But any unity with one another is contingent on our unity with the Father, through His Son. It is that unity with the Father that Jesus had, that we also need. Jesus knew what the priority was/is. Like two lines coming from different poles converging on one point, they become more in union with one another the closer they come to that distant point. Like in marriage. Two spouses will unite to a far greater extent the closer each individual comes to Christ. Our unity with one another is a natural fruit of our relationship with God.
I wrote the following 5 years ago...I believe it is still relevant,
There is a cry going forth from mainstream Christianity that the current disunity within Christendom needs to be addressed, and that uniting on those points upon which all can agree must be pursued with vigor in order to keep the Christian message alive and relevant to a post-modern society. Whilst it is indeed true that the number of Christian denominations, and independent churches,are many, and increasing exponentially, ‘unity’ at all costs, particularly at the cost of truth, must be avoided by any and all means.

The Bible tells us (for those who claim the name of Christ and still believe in the Bible) that the time is coming that the only denominations will be those who have accepted the mark of the beast and are worshiping according to the government dictates. They are the daughters of the Mother, Babylon the Great. Because they have left the truth, they have become harlots in the same character as their mother from whom they originally came. This will leave only a small minority, a united movement who resist the majority traditions and pressures of the NWO, If they were at any stage a denomination, it has long been annulled by government decree due to their practicing their religion according to the Bible, and the Bible only. Teaching the true gospel, they will be accused of hate speech, hated of all nations for Christ’s sake, and be considered the execration of society. Accused of being the cause of God’s judgments falling upon the earth, they will in the end be sentenced to death. This is they who keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus.(Revel. 12:17; 14:12)
Assisi1986.jpg
They are the only ones patiently waiting for Christ’s coming. And the only ones to be translated when He appears in glory. The majority have long given up hope of the second coming; the Bible is no longer seen as relevant to modern society, its history shrouded even now in doubt and skepticism; and doctrine no longer viewed as necessary to salvation, because today there are as many roads that lead to heaven as there are that lead to Rome.
The minority believers are united in the cause for truth, in the preaching of truth in the power of the Holy Spirit, in the living of truth by their living faith in the grace of God. One with Jesus and the Father, empowered by the Spirit of God, they love one another and their chief priority in life is to see as many people as possible come out of Babylon into a saving relationship with Christ.
They have a Truth they know is not to be compromised, and with courage and selfless love for lost souls, they repudiate everything not in harmony with that Truth.
Soon “let us be united” will be the rallying cry of the majority. And unite they will, but under a banner of error and deception.
Beware of false calls to unity. Have a look at Matthew 24:4-9. Note that up to the first part of verse 7, the world is in utter disarray. Wars and rumors of wars, nation against nation, kingdom against kingdom. This has been the state of this world since Cain slew Abel. Conflict has been the one constant thread that is woven throughout human history. But note that in verse 9 there is a major shift. We see the nations of the world united for the very first time…united against the church! But let us pause a little and also consider Revelation 13:3…all the world wondered after the beast…. 8: and all that dwell upon the earth shall worship.…14: and deceiveth them that dwell upon the earth…The whole world is going to be deceived into false worship. This will not be Islam. Babylon the Great is a symbol of the Roman Catholic Church. The world will be deceived into worshiping according to Roman tradition; they will believe they are worshiping according to the truth, for they are deceived. Thus the final great conflict of the ages is not between atheism and theism, but will be between two brothers, one worshiping according to truth and revelation, the other according to tradition and occultist and demonic new age philosophy. An end time repeat of Cain and Abel. What evils and wickedness that permeated religious intolerance during the 1ooo odd years of papal dominion in Europe during the dark ages will be repeated on a global scale with as much ardor, fanaticism, and violence as the worst of the inquisitions of the past.

Our allegiances in those days will not about denominations but about truth and obedience to the commandments of God as opposed to the commandments of men.

The coming separation of Christianity under the aegis of the false prophet is the separation we ought to be more concerned about. For then there will be only two sides. How do you know you wont be deceived along with the rest of the world? How do you know you aren’t already deceived and ripe picking for the coming NWO? What is it about your beliefs and faith that makes you different from the vast majority of Christianity who will take the side of the Antichrist and worship the beast and his image?
The united against the Church is all the Anti-Christ, that's all who are as such in fact, not just the RCC the RCC has always had Satanist with in just as there are always Satanist in every Church denomination, Satanist can come across as just good people but they are only just worldly dupes to the outright demonic ones like Pope Frances who reject Jesus Christ openly, just that the un saved can not see that fact, but the Satanist delight in him the Media Love him and the media hated all the other Popes before him, bagging them 24/7 no end. I don't know one true RC that likes Pope Frances, but only backwards Socialist grubs who never talk about Jesus Christ in the church that idolise the fool. it's all about Socialism to them and the NWO and to dictated over everyone there hair brain utopia and idolise the so called rapture BS. they are just like the deluded Nazis and Communist dolts were lead to believe.

Look I will give it to you straight, you take Jesus as your saviour and abide in him or you don't there is nothing more to it than that really and if you start looking outside of that such is just worthless. mans works can not cut it, the rapture can not cut it any more than that, after the rapture what do you think you will need ? is it the 3rd Testament you are looking for ? no it's the New Testament that's all you will ever need, so it maters not about the rappy but that you are saved Born Again in Salvation of our Lord Jesus Christ, there is nothing one can add to that.
 
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brakelite

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Well we can't just spiritualize Scripture as we please. That has led to a lot of confusion and spiritual error.

There are multiple Scriptures which refer to this end time battle, and they all focus on Jerusalem and Har Megiddo (Armageddon).
Don't you think it weird and not a little odd that the final great battle of mankind deciding the fate of humanity is a literal physical battle over a city long proclaimed desolate by God; a city which has been destroyed and rebuilt over 20 times; a city which has no bearing on the salvation of anyone; a physical battle that flies in the face of the 6000 year old truth that the great issues of the ages are not over land or cities... but over our minds?
Doesn't it strike you as odd that Babylon the Great is a global spiritual entity which has spiritual daughters? Why should it strike you as strange that its arch nemesis is also a spiritual global entity...otherwise known as the church? I put it to you that Armageddon is not a literal battle between literal superpowers, but Satan's final all out conquest to destroy Jesus; but because that is impossible, the next best thing is the body of Christ, His church, His spiritual global remnant against which Satan has waged constant war for the last 2000 years, and is but a continuation of his insane quest to oust God from His throne? Literal Israel, and literal Jerusalem, is but a red herring. The real battle is in your head. The physical battle which results from that is not in the Middle East between China, Russia, Israel and the odd itinerant Arab, but will be a war waged between the world, and you!
ARE YOU READY FOR THIS????


Matthew 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.

So, in verse 6 above we have a growing escalation in the troubles. At first, rumors, then in verse 7, actual war. Nations against nations…kingdom against kingdom. On top of that is added famine, pestilence, and other natural disasters. For the true follower of Jesus, these are the beginning of sorrows. These things have indeed begun, and for those of us who have compassion and love for our fellow man, these times are indeed a sorrowful time. In particular, we witness terrorism in many places, and we are horrified by the acts of atrocity being perpetrated against so many innocent people, by a variety of groups, and in so many different ways. But notice verse 9, things are going to change. Where the nations were at each others throats…where there were factions and sects and revolutionary groups attacking one another through verses 6-8, and they being the beginning of sorrows, in verse 9 all of a sudden we are presented with those very same groups, the “they”, being all the powers previously mentioned in verse 7, joining together, uniting under a common banner, to do to God’s people what they had been formerly doing to each other. This is the real sorrow. This is the real end-time battle we need to prepare for. Never mind what is going on in Israel. Or anywhere else for that matter. What is important is what is going on inside you.
 
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TheHolyBookEnds

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Well we can't just spiritualize Scripture as we please. That has led to a lot of confusion and spiritual error.

There are multiple Scriptures which refer to this end time battle, and they all focus on Jerusalem and Har Megiddo (Armageddon).
I do not do as I please. I follow that which is given in 1 Cor. 15:46, such as 1 Cor. 10. and so on.

Spiritual is not to spiritualize.

Jerusalem is above, not on earth; Gal. 4:26.
 

TheHolyBookEnds

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I think it is only mentioned one time in the Bible. How many meanings could it have?
"Armageddon" as in English, is mentioned once that is true enough, but it points us to the Hebrew (OT) use.

Rev_16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

This is given amidst all manner of symbol, in the midst of the 6th last plague vial, just before the 7th.

The Revelation, uses all manner of words from the OT, Balaam, Jezebel, Gog and Magog, Abaddon, Egypt, Babylon, Moses, Euphrates and so on. They are all drawing from the OT type, in their greater global antitype.
 

Willie T

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"Armageddon" as in English, is mentioned once that is true enough, but it points us to the Hebrew (OT) use.

Rev_16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

This is given amidst all manner of symbol, in the midst of the 6th last plague vial, just before the 7th.

The Revelation, uses all manner of words from the OT, Balaam, Jezebel, Gog and Magog, Abaddon, Egypt, Babylon, Moses, Euphrates and so on. They are all drawing from the OT type, in their greater global antitype.
And all that verbosity means.... what?
 

Enoch111

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Don't you think it weird and not a little odd that the final great battle of mankind deciding the fate of humanity is a literal physical battle over a city long proclaimed desolate by God; a city which has been destroyed and rebuilt over 20 times; a city which has no bearing on the salvation of anyone; a physical battle that flies in the face of the 6000 year old truth that the great issues of the ages are not over land or cities... but over our minds?
We can look at this from a purely human perspective and all of it appears *weird*. But when we look at this from God and Christ's perspective, it makes perfect sense within God's eternal plans and purposes.

The valley of Jezreel, less than 60 miles from Jerusalem (where Har Megiddo or Armageddon is located), will be the staging ground for all the armies of Satan and the Antichrist (from around the world) to gather against Jerusalem and against Christ. But the valley of Jehospahat (the valley of Kidron), which is very close to Jerusalem, will be where the armies prepare to destroy Jerusalem, but are instead destroyed supernaturally by the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. There are many Scriptures in the OT which tie all this together.

However Jerusalem (on earth) is as important to God as the New Jerusalem in Heaven. Thus those prophecies culminate in what is described in Revelation 16, 19, and 14 as "the battle of that great day of God Almighty".

REVELATION 16

12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon...


REVELATION 19
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19 And I saw the beast [the Antichrist], and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh...


REVELATION 14
17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
20 And the winepress was trodden without [outside] the city [of Jerusalem], and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs. [200 miles]

Imagine a river of blood as high as five feet and flowing for 200 miles! On the basis of these prophecies, no serious student of Scripture will try and conjure up a different scenario which is global. However, the scope of the Tribulation and the Great Tribulation is global, and the second coming of Christ at the battle of Armageddon is the culmination of the wrathful judgments of God. As to the future eternal significance of Jerusalem on earth, Christians should study the OT carefully.
 

TheHolyBookEnds

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And all that verbosity means.... what?
Armageddon is a symbolic Hebrew name in the midst of symbols, referring back to OT types, that we might know the greater reality, as like 1 Cor. 10. People looking to the 'middle east', are about to be side-blinded, for they looking in the wrong direction, even as it was in the days of Jesus.
 

Willie T

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Armageddon is a symbolic Hebrew name in the midst of symbols, referring back to OT types, that we might know the greater reality, as like 1 Cor. 10. People looking to the 'middle east', are about to be side-blinded, for they looking in the wrong direction, even as it was in the days of Jesus.
Thank you. That makes sense, and I do agree with it.
 
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