The Current State of Christianity

[Marymog]

If I find beauty and peace in the mountains, and you need to live by the beach, and Helen loves the desert, are we out of Unity? Some spend their lives helping the homeless. Some others go to India, or Russia, or Japan and each preaches to very different classes of people. Are these not all in Unity?

Almost all the Apostles were different. Peter and Paul preached to entirely differently thinking and worshiping people. No disunity there, is there? There are really only two or three things Christians have to see the same way.

Post #96, of which you can't seem to agree with, is from scripture.

Do you find it difficult to agree with scripture?

Mary

 

[TheHolyBookEnds]

How then? Are the people going to be (caught up together) at different times? Or is there only going to be one? Of course there must be a unity. The Bride is a Body fitly joined together.

There is only going to be a single "caught up together", as per 1 Thes. 4:17, and it comes after the first great resurrection of the righteous.

 

[Small Fish]

There is only going to be a single "caught up together", as per 1 Thes. 4:17, and it comes after the first great resurrection of the righteous.

Correct

 

[Episkopos]

There is only going to be a single "caught up together", as per 1 Thes. 4:17, and it comes after the first great resurrection of the righteous.

That would be...the holy. The righteous are only determined after the millennial reign of the saints...at the GWT judgment.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Why do you feel any of our beliefs have to be "superior" to someone else's? Is it not sufficient for you to believe that God shows you what He wants for you, and shows Helen what He has planned for her, and shows me what He desires for me?

OMG.....I was just talking to Him about this the other day....a friend gave me a book The Prayer of Jabez....and said something about praying that prayer everyday for 30 days and see how God will answer that prayer.....I tried it for about 2 days and then I said Father that prayer came from Jabez's heart and was related to his situation...this prayer is not what is on my heart to pray....my prayer is to draw nearer to you, to know Your heart, Your ways, to find your hidden wisdom and to understand the mystery of you...to have a deeper fellowship with you ….to have clarity in hearing your voice and be a vessel for you to minister through.....this is what is in my heart to pray..
and He said EXACTLY....and that is what I seek...those who speak from their heart...and it is different to each of you....prayer is an intimate relationship with me and here is where I have you all to myself and can speak to you and you can hear me.

So Wow...got it....and we are to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling...what one person shares in how God moved in their life will not be how God may move in mine....it is a heart thing...lol....everything we desire must line up with His Word and the Holy Spirit keeps me in check on that.!

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Amen!

Plus @JesusIsFaithful The Virgins corporately or even the five wise..were not the Bride..they were the bridesmaids.
So not the best parable to use..

It goes to readiness, sister, so it does apply to believers as they are the bride of Christ, the church. Some will be ready and some will be out to the market to be continually filling themselves with oil, hence the Holy Spirit.

 

[Helen]

It goes to readiness, sister, so it does apply to believers as they are the bride of Christ, the church.

Well , once again...each to their own.
The 10 virgins do not represent the Bride... bridesmaids or torchbearers for a procession, chosen to participate in a wedding.

I have checked many times, and can nothing which confirms that the bridesmaids here represent the Bride herself .

Convince me...really, I am interested.

 

[lforrest]

I'm still looking and can't find the unity even among individuals. As many individuals, so many opinions. How are they unified if you say this. Point them out to me.

I feel that the biggest part of the Christian world is still very much devided on a very basic, fundamental level

Christians are united by the Holy Spirit, and necessarily belief in Jesus Christ for that to be so. There are many things written in the bible that are givens. They will all necessarily love God, but for that to be so they must also love their neighbor.

There are many disputable matters, and we are instructed not to cause division due to those. But even if there is division these disputable matters don't separate people from God. Not many denominations consider all the others to be damned because they disagree.

 

[Episkopos]

Well , once again...each to their own.
The 10 virgins do not represent the Bride... bridesmaids or torchbearers for a procession, chosen to participate in a wedding.

I have checked many times, and can nothing which confirms that the bridesmaids here represent the Bride herself .

Convince me...really, I am interested.

Check out Amos 5...it is about the virgin of Israel. 100 shall become 10....and then the 10 become 5. This is how we can understand the parable from a prophetic sense. And yes, the virgins who remain are the Bride. There is a "weeding out" process going on...even now.

The guests are taken from the alleys and roads and are are both good and bad. The criteria is much less for these.

Mat. 22:8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Well , once again...each to their own.
The 10 virgins do not represent the Bride... bridesmaids or torchbearers for a procession, chosen to participate in a wedding.

I have checked many times, and can nothing which confirms that the bridesmaids here represent the Bride herself .

Convince me...really, I am interested.

Then read His words when it is about being received by the Bridegroom.

Matthew 25:1Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.

3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:

4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.

5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

Any iniquity that a believer is found in .. that iniquity is actually denying Him for why He is denying them. It does not mean they are not saved. It just explains why they are disqualified and thus denied to attend the Marriage Supper in His honor. This is where the vessels unto dishonor comes from that are in His House; hence applicable to the five foolish virgins out to the market in seeking to be filled.

 

[Helen]

Any iniquity that a believer is found in .. that iniquity is actually denying Him for why He is denying them. It does not mean they are not saved. It just explains why they are disqualified and thus denied to attend the Marriage Supper in His honor. This is where the vessels unto dishonor comes from that are in His House; hence applicable to the five foolish virgins out to the market in seeking to be filled.

Okay...I guess it hangs on "The Kingdom of Heaven shall be likened unto.." I can go with you there.

I have always believed that the five foolish were "shut out" of the Millennial reign of Christ.
If oil was still available ..and obviously it was, because- "they went to buy "
And when they got back...the door was shut.
So I can't be convinced that it was the marriage supper that they were shut out of..

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Okay...I guess it hangs on "The Kingdom of Heaven shall be likened unto.." I can go with you there.

I have always believed that the five foolish were "shut out" of the Millennial reign of Christ.
If oil was still available ..and obviously it was, because- "they went to buy "
And when they got back...the door was shut.
So I can't be convinced that it was the marriage supper that they were shut out of..

I am not sure how you can find the foolish virgins out in the market during the great tribulation, though. There would be no freedom to buy and sell as usual for believers in the great tribulation.

Since it is in reference to the Kingdom of Heaven, I would believe it is about being received up to Heaven in attending the Marriage Supper.

When Christ comes back as the King of kings to establish His millennium reign on earth, to do battle with the devil and the world's armies marching against Jerusalem, I just can't see Him coming back as the Bridegroom then when the first thing He will be doing is to do battle.

So that is why I see the parable as applying to readiness to be received by the Bridegroom before the great tribulation comes.

You can always pray normally to Jesus Christ at that throne of grace for help to understand that parable, but I know I cannot help you understand it.

 

[TheHolyBookEnds]

Christians are united by the Holy Spirit

Would you say that the Holy Spirit leads the Christians into unity through the word of God, as per Jhn. 16:13, 17:6-23?

 

[TheHolyBookEnds]

There are many disputable matters

What do you list as your top 5 disputable matters, and why do you think that they are disputable? I am curious to see what you think is a disputable matter.

 

[Willie T]

What do you list as your top 5 disputable matters, and why do you think that they are disputable? I am curious to see what you think is a disputable matter.

"The Rapture" would be the first and most obvious.
Christ being born on December 25th would be next.
Whether or not Jesus drank alcohol.
If God can look upon sin or not.
Then, maybe.... when John wrote Revelation.

None of those questions affect Salvation a bit.

 

[Enoch111]

When Christ comes back as the King of kings to establish His millennium reign on earth, to do battle with the devil and the world's armies marching against Jerusalem, I just can't see Him coming back as the Bridegroom then when the first thing He will be doing is to do battle.

We need to go with the flow of events in Revelation 19. And there we see (1) the Marriage of the Lamb, (2) the Second Coming of Christ with His saints, and (3) the King of kings and Lord of lords coming to destroy His enemies at the battle of Armageddon.

And He is no longer the Bridegroom but the Husband of the Lamb's Wife.

 

[Stranger]

It goes to readiness, sister, so it does apply to believers as they are the bride of Christ, the church. Some will be ready and some will be out to the market to be continually filling themselves with oil, hence the Holy Spirit.

Did you send your wife an invitation to her own wedding? I bet that went well. How silly.

Stranger

 

[Enoch111]

I have checked many times, and can nothing which confirms that the bridesmaids here represent the Bride herself .

Well for one thing those women are NOT called "bridesmaids" but "virgins". And we are told in Scripture that the Church will eventually be purified and perfected in order to be without spot and blemish (1 John 3:1-3). Hence the metaphor of a chaste virgin is applied to the Church.

For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. (2 Cor 11:21).

Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. (Eph 5:25-27)

It would therefore appear that the parable of The Ten Virgins is about the preparedness of Christians to meet Christ at the Rapture. The oil represents the Holy Spirit, and those with the Holy Spirit are taken up because they "know" Christ experientially. On the other hand the foolish virgins are told "Verily I say unto you, I know you not" which means that they were outwardly professing Christians but not actually children of God, within whom the Holy Spirit dwells.

 

[Willie T]

I was curious if anyone here had ever looked up a photograph of Armageddon. It's about the size of a good-sized Shopping Mall. (Just an interesting point to ponder.)

 

[marksman]

Having done an in-depth study of the New Testament Church I found that even then there were arguments and disagreements so it is nothing new. Perhaps the problem is not the disagreement but how you deal with it. If everyone agreed with everyone all the time you would not grow in grace.

A local church here had a problem with one of its members who had the audacity to ask the preacher where what she said was in scripture so they took him to court and got an intervention order against him which is expressly forbidden in 1 Corinthians.

I have a distinct feeling that in the main differences and dissension comes about because of pride which means a refusal to back down even when we are shown to be wrong.

The other reason is that we make doctrine more important than a relationship with Jesus. As I have said many times. I don't want to know ABOUT Jesus. I want to KNOW Jesus because in him is life. There is no life in knowing ABOUT him.

And this is where so many churches fall down. Their services are focused on knowing ABOUT Jesus not on KNOWING Jesus.

When man is in charge, all we get is knowing ABOUT Jesus. When Jesus is allowed to build his church, the focus is on KNOWING him. Paul's prayer in Philippians 3:10 was that he might know him (Jesus) and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, having been conformed to His death,

And in 1 Corinthians 2:2 he said: "For I decided not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ, and Him having been crucified."

How many churches or church services today make that their aim? How many sermons encourage you to die?