The Deception of Tithing and Paid Pastors

[PS95]

Is there tithing in the New Testament or just the Old?

Nope. The word tithe is in the Old T and there were several tithes.
Today- we are to give to whoever asks of us. The left hand not knowing what the right is doing. Be generous. It's about the heart.

“For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.” – Matthew 6:21

“On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with your income, so that collections can be made when I come.” – 1 Corinthians 16:2

“Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.” – 2 Corinthians 9:6-7

“In everything I did, I showed you that by this kind of hard work we must help the weak, remembering the words the Lord Jesus himself said: ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.'” – Acts 20:35

“Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.” – Luke 6:38

“Jesus sat down opposite the place where the offerings were put and watched the crowd putting money into the temple treasury. Many rich people threw in large amounts. But a poor widow came and put in two very small copper coins, worth only a few cents. Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, ‘Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others.'” – Mark 12:41-44

“Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.” – Galatians 6:9

“No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.” – Matthew 6:24

“Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment.” – 1 Timothy 6:17-19

“Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way, you will fulfill the law of Christ.” – Galatians 6:2

“And do not set your heart on what you will eat or drink; do not worry about it. For the pagan world runs after all such things, and your Father knows that you need them. But seek his kingdom, and these things will be given to you as well.” – Luke 12:29-31

If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.- 1 Cor 13:3

But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. Matthew 6:3-4

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Yeah Pastors should be broke and homeless living under a bridge some place. Got it.

If this guy knew the Word of God a little better he'd know that numerous churches supported the Apostle Paul financially and with places to stay and other resources for him to live on.

Sure he worked a little here and there as a tent maker but he was called to full time ministry and did not fully support himself making tents so he had help and support from the Body of Christ. And people were giving Jesus money and Jesus was not out working a side job to support His ministry and He had 12 guys on staff so He had to provide for them as well.

That guy in the video is right on some things, but on others not so much.

He also teaches that Christians are supposed to be skeered of God in direct opposition to what God's teaches because he does not understand the difference between the fear of the Lord and being skeered of God

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

2 Timothy 1:7
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Luke 8:1-3 KJV
1) And it came to pass afterward, that he went throughout every city and village, preaching and shewing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God: and the twelve were with him,
2) And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils,
3) And Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto him of their substance.

Yep, and let's not forget what Jesus said in John6:5

John 6:5
When Jesus then lifted up his eyes, and saw a great company come unto him, he saith unto Philip, Whence shall we buy bread, that these may eat?

Before Jesus did the miracle of multiplying the fishes and loves He asked "where can be buy food for all these people"

This means Jesus' ministry at that time had enough money on hand to buy food for five thousand men which would have included additional people as some had their families with them at that time. If Jesus did not have enough money on hand it would have been a deception (lie) for Him to suggest buying food for all those people. Jesus cannot lie, so He had the cash on hand.

People were in fact giving money to Jesus' ministry which is why Jesus had a treasurer (Judas) who was a guy brought on staff to handle the money. A fella with no money certainly has no need for a treasurer

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Each male in the assembly of church could participate and share, not just the pastor. It can easily be done.

Are you suggesting there should not be any pastors and the men of each church should all just take turns preaching at each gathering?

No, that's not biblical. God needs for someone to be head of the group and that's the pastor.

There are Christians meeting in these types of buildings without AC and bathrooms every week in other countries.

Yeah, but YOU enjoy air conditioning and indoor plumbing right?

If so then a church should have the basics like this as well

Is there something wrong with Paul? He made tents for a living.

Paul received a lot of financial support

He was in ministry full time and was not a laborer making tents full time as he only did that occasionally on the side.

Besides, Jesus is the model we are called to follow and He didn't work any side job as He ministered full time and also received help from the people.

This is clearly about material support.

Yep.

You are stereotyping churches unfairly

She got that from the guy in the video who actually claims we should not attend any church

 

[Dan Clarkston]

They can make a salary elsewhere.

So you think they should work secular jobs full time and treat ministry as a side gig, kind like a hobby right?

 

[Dan Clarkston]

The Lord Jesus said controversial truths that offended many and He simply let them walk away.

Which is what a real pastor would do as he is believing the Lord to meet his needs, not the people even though the Lord will work through people in many cases to meet his needs.

Teaching the Truth of God's Word always comes first for a real pastor.

1 Timothy 5:17,18
Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
For the scripture saith, thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

The pastor is THE head elder among elders in a church

 

[TitusTwoWife]

I want to keep a gentle and quiet spirit.

I am concerned that the modern tithing system takes away from the lifestyle of direct generosity that Jesus commands and is unbiblical.

It is our responsibility to help those in need directly.

I never said pastors had to be poor. They can make as much money as they want with their own hands. But when they have salaries that are tied to tithing congregants, they have reason to water down the truth of God's Word and tickle their ears.

This is why I object to the fancy buildings and the church acting as a business model: truth is compromised.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

I am concerned that the modern tithing system takes away from the lifestyle of direct generosity that Jesus commands and is unbiblical.

It shouldn't be called tithing but a church can be like a coop where people band together, pool their money to help others.

Sure this has been misused, but just because people get together and form a church and buy a building does not automatically mean it's all evil. It's when they start growing in to a mega church and become a 501c3 organization and start operating like a multinational corporation that they start being servants of the machine they have created rather than serving the Lord.

Small churches are better, but even small groups can embrace false doctrines.

They guy in the video paints with a brush that's way to wide and in doing so is in the ditch. He teaches that Christians should not attend church at all in other videos so he claims we should actually forsake the gathering of our selves in opposition to what the Lord says in Hebrews 10:25

So he needs to be taken with a grain of salt. And whatever you do, don't email him with any questions because if you don't agree with everything he says he'll claim you are serving the devil. I learned this from experience with this guy asking him why he teaches Christians should all be skeered of God.

 

[NayborBear]

Sure this has been misused, but just because people get together and form a church and buy a building does not automatically mean it's all evil.

I agree with you with the not ALL evil part!
Yet?
I'll also have to agree with Titus Two wife also, that due to prosperity and other ear tickling, misguided/misdirected "love" watered down doctrines?
Has gotten a lot of Churches to the point of actually being of "No Ill Will" towards that spirit of antichrist! And thus, are of no consequence TO the adversary!

Faith?.....Oh Yes!
Yet....VERIFY!
1 John 4:3
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but TRY the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. ...

So? Being as it was already IN the world back when John recorded this?
What has transpired since then in getting people to think it's not around anymore?

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Has gotten a lot of Churches to the point of actually being of "No Ill Will" towards that spirit of antichrist! And thus, are of no consequence TO the adversary!

That's the ecumenical movement that even people in small churches are being sucked in to whether they subscribe to so called prosperity gospel or not. Most people claiming to be Christians now believe one can get to Heaven through other religions and will tell you that you should not judge them just because they reject Jesus as their Lord and Savior and will say "how do you know they are not saved and going to Heaven?"

What has transpired since then in getting people to think it's not around anymore?

False teachers - The Lord says many false teachers have gone out 2 John 1:7

The Lord spoke through Paul on this too:

Acts 20:27-30
For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

2 Timothy 4:3,4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine (teaching); but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

2 Peter 2:1-3
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying (contradicting, Not agreeing with) the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
And through covetousness (idolatry) shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingers not, and their damnation slumbers not.

Jude 1:17-21
Remember the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
These are those who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
But you, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
("those who separate themselves" is not referring to sinners in the world who were never joined unto the Lord in the first place)

 

[NayborBear]

That's the ecumenical movement that even people in small churches are being sucked in to whether they subscribe to so called prosperity gospel or not. Most people claiming to be Christians now believe one can get to Heaven through other religions and will tell you that you should not judge them just because they reject Jesus as their Lord and Savior and will say "how do you know they are not saved and going to Heaven?"




False teachers - The Lord says many false teachers have gone out 2 John 1:7

The Lord spoke through Paul on this too:

Acts 20:27-30
For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

2 Timothy 4:3,4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine (teaching); but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

2 Peter 2:1-3
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying (contradicting, Not agreeing with) the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
And through covetousness (idolatry) shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingers not, and their damnation slumbers not.

Jude 1:17-21
Remember the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
These are those who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
But you, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
("those who separate themselves" is not referring to sinners in the world who were never joined unto the Lord in the first place)

Think it was that "Drug Store Truck Drivin' Man" that coined the phrase:
Trust-(In God)
But?
Verify-(To make CERTAIN it is INDEED: OF God!)
I believe it is not solely, yet, mostly because either people don't feel the need to, are afraid to, or "cut off" to the point where they're unable to, that (and, I'm not talking about this ecumenical movement either), that has turned Christ's Church into a gathering of churchianitists!

 

[Always]

I have no problem with a Pastor being paid a wage, that the Elders and Trustees have agreed on according to the congregations freewill offerings. No input by the pastor is needed, and he does not come before paying utilities and upkeep of the church and the outreach ministries of the church.

He would be a full time pastor working from the church 8-5/ or part-time...., and feeding the sheep on Sunday, available for funerals, weddings, consultations, ... an so on, " I think it would be better to have someone not tied down by a secular job, they have to live too.

 

[amigo de christo]

I want to keep a gentle and quiet spirit.

I am concerned that the modern tithing system takes away from the lifestyle of direct generosity that Jesus commands and is unbiblical.

It is our responsibility to help those in need directly.

I never said pastors had to be poor. They can make as much money as they want with their own hands. But when they have salaries that are tied to tithing congregants, they have reason to water down the truth of God's Word and tickle their ears.

This is why I object to the fancy buildings and the church acting as a business model: truth is compromised.

Truth has indeed been compromised my dear sister .
Too many have went down the wrong path . And yes the love of money was at the root of it .
If one is in need let them ask . The safest example was given by paul .
While one can live of the gospel often many will take advantage of this .
Paul , and others , knew as leaders the focus was to be on the gospel itself , on actually feeding the church with truth
and as often the case , They led BY EXAMPLE .
When set wages , salaries and etc come into play , ITS NOT gonna bode well .
THEY become dependant upon it and , oh yes they do adjust their preaching to it .
The simpliest example i can see is
H ow did JESUS live and walk . Yes they did have a money bag .
However did JESUS ever once live wearing better clothes than His own .
A true man of GOD would put the needs of the flock FIRST , even above his own .
THIS i do not see at all in many many many churches .
The pastor and leaders often live MORE weathly that their own .
IF any desires to be a leader
HIS MIND should be GOD FIRST CHRIST FIRST , then HIS FLOCK , THEN lastly what he might need .
And by need i mean need not g reed .
Its not necessarly wrong to live of the gospel , But as you well know
MANY LIVE and LIVE and LIVE off the gospel . IN other words , WE GOTS PROBLEMS .
Any true seasoned man of GOD and yes i said MAN of GOD for women ought never lead the church
SHOULD PUT THE NEEDS of its own above even his own needs .
Looking out for the welfare of others above even his own . IN fact even the sheep should learn to do that .
but when it becomes a set wage , a b usiness , ITS ALL GOING DOWN .
THEY will do as YOU SAID . THEY will adapt to the times in order to KEEP the flow of money COMING INTO said church .

 

[amigo de christo]

I want to keep a gentle and quiet spirit.

I am concerned that the modern tithing system takes away from the lifestyle of direct generosity that Jesus commands and is unbiblical.

It is our responsibility to help those in need directly.

I never said pastors had to be poor. They can make as much money as they want with their own hands. But when they have salaries that are tied to tithing congregants, they have reason to water down the truth of God's Word and tickle their ears.

This is why I object to the fancy buildings and the church acting as a business model: truth is compromised.

And now a word . a real simple reminder .
I see you agreed with what i wrote . HEY sister , WHAT IS THE ONLY BOOK i have been offereing up and reading .
I aint saying every book written by christains is dead wrong , though I cannot count the number of books that are sister .
BUT ONE THING and that by grace i HAVE LONG KNOWN .
IF YOU WANT TO KNOW TRUTH , OPEN BIBLE . now that BOOK i can claim TO be T OTAL TRUTH .
all other books , well they just have to be tested against this book .
AS i have and and i do . You aint reading the words of some great scholar who sat under great scholars .
I was not raised in any church . Fact is i was worse than YOU ever were or most have been .
SO WHO changed me . GOD DID .
WHO gave me a new heart . GOD DID .
AND WHO PUT ME INTO THE BIBLE with a joy and love of reading it , GOD DID .
But never once , and i do mean EVEN ONCE , think i say or mean , OH YOU JUST GOTS TO BELIEVE ME .
NO . BELIEVE GOD and test all t hings i do or say and all things anyone else does or says
AGAINST THE LOVELY PURE AND HOLY WORDS , OF GOD in THAT BIBLE . and folks might call that bibolatry .
BU T the last time i checked ,, THE LOVE OF GOD WOULD HAVE US LOVE HIM above all
AND I KNOW FULL WELL ITS HIS WORDS IN THAT BIBLE .

 

[Marvelloustime]

And now a word . a real simple reminder .
I see you agreed with what i wrote . HEY sister , WHAT IS THE ONLY BOOK i have been offereing up and reading .
I aint saying every book written by christains is dead wrong , though I cannot count the number of books that are sister .
BUT ONE THING and that by grace i HAVE LONG KNOWN .
IF YOU WANT TO KNOW TRUTH , OPEN BIBLE . now that BOOK i can claim TO be T OTAL TRUTH .
all other books , well they just have to be tested against this book .
AS i have and and i do . You aint reading the words of some great scholar who sat under great scholars .
I was not raised in any church . Fact is i was worse than YOU ever were or most have been .
SO WHO changed me . GOD DID .
WHO gave me a new heart . GOD DID .
AND WHO PUT ME INTO THE BIBLE with a joy and love of reading it , GOD DID .
But never once , and i do mean EVEN ONCE , think i say or mean , OH YOU JUST GOTS TO BELIEVE ME .
NO . BELIEVE GOD and test all t hings i do or say and all things anyone else does or says
AGAINST THE LOVELY PURE AND HOLY WORDS , OF GOD in THAT BIBLE . and folks might call that bibolatry .
BU T the last time i checked ,, THE LOVE OF GOD WOULD HAVE US LOVE HIM above all
AND I KNOW FULL WELL ITS HIS WORDS IN THAT BIBLE .

@amigo de christo