The Difference between RIGHEOUSNESS and HOLINESS

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Karl Peters

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Holiness is being separated from that which God says is darkness and evil.

2 Corinthians 6:17
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,


The Lord does not receive those that just give lip service to being a believer who are still playing around with the world and are not separated unto the Lord as belonging to Him exclusively.

Note how holy or holiness is not mentioned in the verse you quoted!!

And also note what I pointed out that the ground where Moses was standing was called holy!

Is that dirt fallen away from God so that the dirt He made is now evil? How? God made all things, including the whole earth. Was that physical dirt possible to take evil action as opposed to good action. Can that dirt take any action at all??

Let's not be silly. Did we not even read how when Joshua was told that He was not for or against him, even though God was going to us the Israelites to destroy the evil city Jericho. It was not an evil city not used by God because of the dirt in the bricks they made to make the city.

The problem always comes from not actually seeking the Lord and what He says. Is it not written that they will all be taught of God?

I tell you truly, that the definition of Holy that I provided and the explanation was from a prior conversation with the Lord. And the thing is, He always turns out to make sense. The Lord uses certain things He created to glorify Himself and some He does not use to glorify Himself. The holiness concept has to do with what He uses to glorify Himself or not.

And another thing, as already pointed out in my prior post - is that they were called holy by God before they got the instruction!! Did you also miss the "Therefore" in the verse you quoted???? It was because He was going to use them (they were holy unto Him) that He gave them the instruction to "COME OUT FROM THEIR MIDST' after being called " the temple of the living God" and being told He would walk with them, right? Verse 6:16 comes before 6:17!!!

2 Cor 6:16 Or what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; just as God said,
“I WILL DWELL IN THEM AND WALK AMONG THEM;
AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.

2 Cor 6:17 “Therefore, COME OUT FROM THEIR MIDST AND BE SEPARATE,” says the Lord.
“AND DO NOT TOUCH WHAT IS UNCLEAN;
And I will welcome you.

So, they were holy to God before being told to separate themselves!! You have it backward!! They were the temple of the living God, before getting the instruction to separate themselves. They we are reckon as righteous because we believe, and not because we separate ourselves like He asked. Of course, if we believe He speaks to us there is going to be some effort into doing what He says, but Abraham still had an Ishmeal after the Lord promise Abraham!
 

Philip James

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Those who embrace rapture, will be deceived by antichrist near future. These fake brethren will be with satan in the pit.

Hello strepho,

Perhaps its a little harsh to call all those who have been taught to 'embrace the rapture' fake?

I would expect that most of those who do so,sincerely love Jesus, however misguided they may be, and I personally do not think that anyone who, with a humble and contrite heart, puts all their trust in Jesus , will be put to shame..

A bruised reed he shall not break, and a smoldering wick he shall not quench,

Pax et Bonum
 
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Karl Peters

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Notice how touching NOT the unclean is???

Yeah - but it is not connected to being holy or unholy or reckon as righteous!!!

While we know that actually doing the right things is doing what the Lord tells us to do, because only God knows the right thing to do at all times; still it is not even our opinion of what is clean or unclean that counts, as Peter found out!! Peter thought he knew better than the Lord as to what your verse meant and got reproved by God!!

Acts 10:14,15,But Peter said, “By no means, Lord, for I have never eaten anything unholy and unclean.”
Again a voice came to him a second time, “What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy.”

You are making the same mistake as Peter was making! While Peter meant well, he still failed to realize that we are not to lean on our own understanding, but rather we are to take all thoughts captive to Jesus Christ and listen to what He has to say!!

In the Peter story above, Peter was thinking in physical terms and even to the point of trying to reprove the Lord!! How embarrassing, but I am also a Peters who thinks I am smarter that the Lord at times, and listen to the Lord and His reproof to me personally. The more that happens to you, the more you get the understanding that righteousness is not achieved, and especially not by leaning on our own understanding! To be used by Him (be holy) and to be recognized at being righteous by Him, you have to listen to Him by faith!! And even then you are not going to be righteous in a strict sense - but your hearing by faith and believing in Him who speaks to you will be counted as righteousness to you, because doing that is not being rebellious!!
 
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Karl Peters

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24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Righteousness is not sinless perfection people talk about, just sinlessness. Perfection comes next through the same abiding in Christ and He in us, and takes a while.

Holiness:
To be perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect, ALL the fruit of the Spirit must become mature, then we are ensured of our place in heaven.

The above comes from the OP and has a couple of problems to it.

The verse of course is correct, in that he who keeps His commandment abides in Him and He in him. Yet the conclusion is wrong, in that it makes the assumption that after a while we are going to abide in Him and He is us. It might be reasonable to think that with practice we get better at something, but to be perfect??? Paul is careful to point out that we should not make that assumption!

Phl 3:12,13 I don't mean to say that I have already achieved these things or that I have already reached perfection. But I press on to possess that perfection for which Christ Jesus first possessed me.
No, dear brothers and sisters, I have not achieved it, but I focus on this one thing: Forgetting the past and looking forward to what lies ahead,

And in Heb we see another argument against that assumption:

Heb 7:11 So if the priesthood of Levi, on which the law was based, could have achieved the perfection God intended, why did God need to establish a different priesthood, with a priest in the order of Melchizedek instead of the order of Levi and Aaron?

So that assumption that we might obtain righteousness, or perhaps enough righteousness, to be counted worthy and acceptable enough to be considered holy, is and assumption and thinking that the Bible argues against. Which is to say that we are not to think we have achieved but to think that we need to press on!

And in what sense must we press on?

Is it in a sense that we must try to follow the Law and the Sacred Writings, or is it in the sense that we must press on into seeking and personally hearing from our Lord Jesus Christ by faith?

The Law and the Scriptures do not save us, but the Christ is the One who saves us, thus why we called Him Jesus (God's salvation)!

Indeed, if He is abiding in us then we can hear from Him and talk to Him, but we don't always seek Him and hear from Him! We also find that we find that sin dwells in us, even to the point that find like Paul, that we are not doing the thing we want to do, so that sin in us is a principle fact that is discovered by Christians!

Therefore the practice listening to Him who abides in us leads to discernment of spirits and the awareness of both good and evil in us. We find the reality of the battle that is taking place in us! And if that reality has not been found, then what spirit are we listening to? Certainly not the Spirit of God that Paul and John listened to!

With our findings, as Christians, we do not think we have achieved because we realize that we have not. So we press on seeking the voice of our Lord.

With our findings we realize more and more how far off we are from being righteous, and that because we more and more realize what it means that all unrighteousness is sin. My dad used to say that the more you know the more you realize that you don't know. That is how it if to really come to know the Lord. Indeed, the more you listen to the Lord Jesus Christ, via His Holy Spirit, the more you realize that you can not ever come to know the depts of God!! That is what Jesus the Christ understood, so that He made the decision in Himself, to do and say only what He Father told Him; which explains what He is called 'The Word of God'.

So if indeed you can do and say only what 'The Word of God', which is the Son of God who was given to us, then and only then will you achieve perfection and true righteousness. Yet not even the angels in heaven have achieved that, and not even John the Baptist, in the spirit of Elijah, is as great as the least of them.

Therefore we are reckoned as righteous, because of our faith and not because of our good works!

And therefore this statement from the Op, "Righteousness is not sinless perfection people talk about, just sinlessness. Perfection comes next through the same abiding in Christ and He in us, and takes a while." - is wrong!!!!

It promotes our thinking that we have achieved, or at least achieved enough to be considered to have perfection! It is a statement that promotes pride.

Where as actually knowing and listening to Him results in a desire to listen and know Him more, because we realize more and more how fat off we are. Thus actually knowing Him results in more humility and so more commitment to seeking Him more and statements like:

"I have not achieved it, but I focus on this one thing: Forgetting the past and looking forward to what lies ahead,"

As for me, I do not say that I have achieved, but that I know the One who has achieved it. So I say seek Him, and listen to Him, and do what you can to do what He asks of you! Still know that you are not the Word of God, He is! Know that you are not the perfect One, He is! Therefore do not look to what others and yourself as people who 'achieve' but rather look to them as sinners who by the grace and mercy of God can seek and find the Perfect One. They can indeed get to know Him as their Lord, whom they get instructions from, and as the Wonderful Counselor, in which they can get counsel from, and as their Everlasting Father who will teach them and bring them up correctly, and even as their friend who loves them even when they are wrong, which is often.

People - if you know Him you will understand that your relationship with Him thru faith, is the important thing! That relationship results in your seeking Him daily and listening to Him. It does not result is true righteousness or sinlessness, but rather it results in a desire to listen to Him and please Him as you can - but because or your flesh you can't seem to always do that. Knowing Him humbles you! Yet it also makes you boldly go about telling others about Him and us needing to know Him. Thus not telling others about our perceived righteousness, but His actual righteousness.
 
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L.A.M.B.

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Who among us thinks themselves to be completely holy and righteous?

2 Corinthians 13:
5 Examine yourselves,whether ye be in the FAITH; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
Romans 1:28.
“And even as they did NOT like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient.”
 

marks

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Thank you for that explanation.

What you also need to see is....that was your opinion...

Another opinion...online source.


These garments signify in part, God's provision, favor, healing and deliverance by the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. All of this flows from His incredible love. In Christ, we are clothed in garments of salvation and a robe of righteousness.
We're told to "put off" and "put on". So that someone has robes needing cleaning, wouldn't that go along with this? Put off the stained, put on the clean?

Much love!
 

1stCenturyLady

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The above comes from the OP and has a couple of problems to it.

The verse of course is correct, in that he who keeps His commandment abides in Him and He in him. Yet the conclusion is wrong, in that it makes the assumption that after a while we are going to abide in Him and He is us. It might be reasonable to think that with practice we get better at something, but to be perfect??? Paul is careful to point out that we should not make that assumption!

Jesus said you shall be perfect, so why do you doubt? By the looks of what you wrote, you think that I am claiming to have something to do with being sinless. No the Author and Finisher of my faith does it all, even down to giving me the faith to believe. You are also mixing sinlessness that 1 John 3:24 is about with perfection. No, we can be sinless on day one of becoming born again of the Spirit. But perfection is closer to the end of our life if we live a long, long time. That is why it appears Paul didn't become perfect, but that is because he hadn't written his last letter yet when he wrote the earlier ones.
Phl 3:12,13 I don't mean to say that I have already achieved these things or that I have already reached perfection. But I press on to possess that perfection for which Christ Jesus first possessed me.
No, dear brothers and sisters, I have not achieved it, but I focus on this one thing: Forgetting the past and looking forward to what lies ahead,
Paul finally made it in his last letter.
And in Heb we see another argument against that assumption:

Heb 7:11 So if the priesthood of Levi, on which the law was based, could have achieved the perfection God intended, why did God need to establish a different priesthood, with a priest in the order of Melchizedek instead of the order of Levi and Aaron?
They couldn't under the Old Covenant that the above is about because they still had to try to be righteous while dragging around their sin nature. The New Covenant is completely free of the "old man" (sin nature).

This is as far as I got. More later if I find something interesting in the rest of your response.
 

Episkopos

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The perfection of Christ can be understood in 2 ways. The full stature of Christ in maturity...or else the higher walk in holiness afforded to us by resurrection life that helps us get to the full stature of Christ over time.

No one grows naturally, religiously, into any semblance of Christ. We need the perfect purity of Christ to help us into the selfless perfection of character that is found only in Christ.

One is purity...the other maturity.
 

Karl Peters

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Well, keep trying to convince yourself of that... so the door can be left open for you to play with that which is unclean every now and again...

This is where people get it all wrong.

It is not us who 'convinces ourselves', but we battle with the dark spiritual forces of the world, and they try to convince us to not believe in Jesus Christ and Him as the Word of God!

And so where did the smart little remark you have come from???

Unclean and clean have nothing to do with our efforts and works, but being clean comes from Jesus Christ, the Lord our God - and that through listening to Him - which is not where the smart little remark about "trying to convince yourself". If it was from the Lord it would show the wisdom of seeking and listening to Jesus Christ, but it doesn't!
 

Karl Peters

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The perfection of Christ can be understood in 2 ways. The full stature of Christ in ...or else the higher walk holiness afforded to us by resurrection life that helps us get to the full stature Christ over time.

No one grows naturally, religiously, into any semblance of Christ. We need the perfect of Christ to help us into the selfless perfection of character that is found only in Christ.

One is ...the other maturity.


The maturity in Christ - or "The full stature of Christ in ...or else the higher walk holiness afforded to us by resurrection life that helps us get to the full stature Christ over time." - if we want to be wordy - is accomplished by practicing using our spiritual senses to seek our Lord Jesus Christ! More specifically, maturity in Christ means spending time listening to Him. Of course He may also use some dreams, visions, and other of our spiritual senses, but primarily we are talking about practicing listening to Him, and talking back and forth with Him.

And yes, "over time" is a significant factor, but not as significant as regular walking and talking with Him! And by that I mean listening to Him and doing what He asks of you! That is what walking and talking with Him really means. And it takes your spiritual senses to do that, because God is spirit!

Is 1:2,3 Listen, O heavens, and hear, O earth; For the LORD speaks,
“Sons I have reared and brought up, But they have revolted against Me.
“An ox knows its owner, And a donkey its master’s manger,
But Israel does not know, My people do not understand.”

So the problem is that we don't practice listening to Him speaking to us, so we don't know Him!

Is 1: 18 “Come now, and let us reason together,” Says the LORD,
“Though your sins are as scarlet, They will be as white as snow;
Though they are red like crimson, They will be like wool."

We don't practice listening, so we don't hear His reasons and learn from Him! So we too many are dull of hearing and don't mature!

Heb 5:11 Concerning him we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing.

And so while it should be easy to just say listen to Him, it is not easy to just tell people to practice listening to Him by faith because we are not willing to listen to Him! We don't want reproof that He has for those He loves! So we don't practice seeking Him and what He has to say! Thus we don't know Him, nor do we mature!

Heb 5:14 But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.

And if you don't listen to Him, how then are you to be used by Him? Thus thought He called you His people and "Holy unto Him, because He intended to use you; He was unable to use those rebellious people in the past and in the present, who refuse to listen to the Lord. So though He cleaned you, you became dirty - like a pot that continually rusts.

Ezk 24:12 “She has wearied Me with toil,
Yet her great rust has not gone from her;
Let her rust be in the fire!
 

Karl Peters

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Jesus said you shall be perfect, so why do you doubt? By the looks of what you wrote, you think that I am claiming to have something to do with being sinless. No the Author and Finisher of my faith does it all, even down to giving me the faith to believe. You are also mixing sinlessness that 1 John 3:24 is about with perfection. No, we can be sinless on day one of becoming born again of the Spirit. But perfection is closer to the end of our life if we live a long, long time. That is why it appears Paul didn't become perfect, but that is because he hadn't written his last letter yet when he wrote the earlier ones.

Paul finally made it in his last letter.

They couldn't under the Old Covenant that the above is about because they still had to try to be righteous while dragging around their sin nature. The New Covenant is completely free of the "old man" (sin nature).

This is as far as I got. More later if I find something interesting in the rest of your response.

To be perfect is a goal that He set, not a reality that we think we have achieved.

My son is a college soccer coach and he trains the team to not make mistake, but they happen. The goal is that they don't happen but that is not the reality!!

This is why John (IN THE NEW TESTAMENT) wrote:

1 Jn 1:7,9 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

It is also why Paul wrote:

Rom 7: 18 - 21 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.
But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good.

And also why Paul wrote:

Phil 3:14 Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead,

Now this problem we have with sin in us, is not counted against the believer, as explained in Gen 15

Gen 15:6 Then he believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.

So the believer is "reckoned" as righteous, though it is not obtain. So we might realize we are deemed "perfect" in His eyes, like it is written:

Ps 32:2 How blessed is the man to whom the LORD does not impute iniquity,
And in whose spirit there is no deceit!

So we are not perfect, though the Lord does not charge our sins/iniquities against us if we believe in Him, which means actually listening to Him who is with us.

Ps 94:12 Blessed is the man whom You chasten, O LORD, And whom You teach out of Your law;

There is no reason to 'chastise' someone if they are right, and no reason for Him to 'teach out of Your law' if we are perfect in fact and action, and there is not reason for my son to have his team practice if they didn't make mistakes.

So we are not perfect but are reckon as such! And we are not blind as to say that we have not sin, are we? What spirits tell you that???

Again:

1 Jn 1:7,9 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Therefore we, even we who the Lord counts as righteous/perfect in His eyes because we believe in Him, still acknowledge the facts and confess our sins and ask for forgiveness from Him!! We don't take the attitude that we have achieved perfection, even though we are counted as righteous in His eyes!! Yet some must think themselves to have achieved perfection and to be without sin, or John and Paul would not have had to cover this issue in the New Testament/ Covenant!
 

Karl Peters

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Now Christians are Holy - which just means we are used by Him. We are used as His dwelling place, as His temple, as His body that He uses to get things done in this world. Like He told Moses that the ground he stood on was Holy, so we are indeed the ground that He stands on.

Now concerning righteousness: all unrighteousness is sin!! That means that if you take the wrong way to work, even if it is the normal way, you did the wrong thing not the right thing, and are unrighteous!! But who were you to know? You can't always know what the right or wrong thing to do and say, unless your are doing and saying exactly what God tells you.

That is why Jesus explained that He did and said only what His Father tells Him!! He always does that, and so He is The Word of God that we preach, meaning if we listen to Him we are hearing from God, because Jesus only says and does what the Father tells Him. He alone if perfect in all He does.

Never-the-Less, if we believe in Him, so that we can and do hear from Him, then He can use us to do what He needs done! God is smart enough to know what we do and how well, so He can use us as a tool, to get the job done as He wants. And the work of God, incase you don't know, is that all should come to know the Son! By knowing the Son, who does and says only what the Father tells Him, we essentially get to know the Father, because the Son is doing and saying only what the Father tells Him. This is why He is called the perfect image of the invisible God, and also why it is written that nobody knows the Father except the Son and any He shows. He shows us the Father by doing and saying only what the Father tells Him. Which explains why it is written that nobody knows the Son except the Father. If in fact you look to the Son, who will only do and say what His Father tells Him, you don't get to know the Son but His Father through Him. Which is why the Father and the Son are One God.

Now as for us, we are not perfect but just counted 'reckoned' as such. So it is that we read that because Abram believed, it was 'reckoned' to him as righteousness. So what if we don't and will not listen to The Word of God, Jesus Christ, by faith? Then righteousness is not 'reckoned' to you! Still, His sheep hear His voice, and we know that is that still small voice that we hear, and should hear everyday called Today.

Of course is you think that you are perfect, not because you hear from Him by faith but because of your goods works, then it is not the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ that you are hearing from! That is a spirit of pride!!

Pride tells you that you are perfect by your own acts!

Humility and a relationship with the Lord understands that we don't take the attitude that we are perfect, but are counted as perfect only because we believe in Jesus Christ, and that belief in Him obviously means we listen to Him, at least as we can.

And this explains those Christian bumper stickers that read 'not perfect just forgiven'. In His eyes we are righteous and perfect, but we both know (Him and us) that we are not really the perfect one, He is. So we press into Him and try to listen to Him, doing what He asks - or at least that is what we want to do.

And because we are not the perfect ones, then we can be sympathetic to those who don't believe and try to help them. Of course to help them, we point them to Him, our Lord and maker, who wants us to listen to Him. Of course to the people who don't want to listen to Him, pointing them to Him might be a bit annoying to them. Still, that is the right thing to do, and that is the work of God, so we persist.
 

1stCenturyLady

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This is why John (IN THE NEW TESTAMENT) wrote:

1 Jn 1:7,9 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

It is also why Paul wrote:

Rom 7: 18 - 21 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.
But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good.

This is a common response. However, you used two passages and neither are NOT about Christians. Let me help you.

1 John 1:
6 If we SAY that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
8 If we SAY that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
10 If we SAY that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

What these are saying is found in chapter 2.

1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. (Karl, from your posts you seem to believe Jesus didn't mean what He said, and that to not ever sin is impossible. Chapter 1 are contrasts between LIGHT (5, 7, 9) and DARKNESS (6, 8, 10). The lesson is there are people to walk the walk, and there are others who only talk the talk, but lie.

4 He who SAYS “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

The same can be said about Romans 7 that you've taken out of contrast. Verses 14-25 is about the Jews under the Ten Commandments who must try to keep them when they are burdened by their sin nature (the old man). The previous chapter has already shown you that the sin nature is dead, crucified and resurrected FREE FROM SIN. The context of the verses you quoted starts at verse 5 showing Paul's present state from chapter 6 of being free from sin called "the flesh." Read this carefully.

Romans 7:5-6
5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.
 

1stCenturyLady

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Now this problem we have with sin in us, is not counted against the believer, as explained in Gen 15

Gen 15:6 Then he believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.

So the believer is "reckoned" as righteous, though it is not obtain. So we might realize we are deemed "perfect" in His eyes, like it is written:

Ps 32:2 How blessed is the man to whom the LORD does not impute iniquity,
And in whose spirit there is no deceit!

So we are not perfect, though the Lord does not charge our sins/iniquities against us if we believe in Him, which means actually listening to Him who is with us.

That is what they preached in Jude's day. We call it a "license to sin." Your denomination has deceived you. I would say you are probably a Calvinist. RUN! Otherwise, Matthew 7:19-23
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Jude 1:4
For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Revelation 22:11
11 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.”
 
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Ritajanice

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We're told to "put off" and "put on". So that someone has robes needing cleaning, wouldn't that go along with this? Put off the stained, put on the clean?

Much love!
Haven’t a clue what you are talking about here, unless you mean the old man, put on the new man....
 

1stCenturyLady

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Phl 3:12,13 I don't mean to say that I have already achieved these things or that I have already reached perfection. But I press on to possess that perfection for which Christ Jesus first possessed me.
No, dear brothers and sisters, I have not achieved it, but I focus on this one thing: Forgetting the past and looking forward to what lies ahead,

Yes, it takes a long time to mature in all of the fruit of the Spirit to perfection, but Paul finally did as we see by his last letter.

2 Timothy 4:
7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing.