The Difference between RIGHEOUSNESS and HOLINESS

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Big Boy Johnson

Well-Known Member
Sep 28, 2023
3,561
1,446
113
North America
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Unclean and clean have nothing to do with our efforts and works

It has everything to do with our decision to either submit our lives unto, the Lord... or to NOT submit our lives unto the Lord.

James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.


WHO is being told to submit themselves unto the Lord???? We are!

Of course it's God's power... but WE have to decide whether we are going to allow the Lord to lead and guide us by choosing to submit our lives to Him, or we can choose to walk after the flesh and no longer be in right standing with the Lord.

It's not a matter of works, however it IS a matter of obedience.... homie! thumbsup4.gif

Not sure what kind of bible everyone else is using, but God taught me out of my bible that those that have been born again can do all things THUR Christ Who strengthens us.

That must not be in some people's bible...

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengthen me.
 

Big Boy Johnson

Well-Known Member
Sep 28, 2023
3,561
1,446
113
North America
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Now Christians are Holy - which just means we are used by Him. We are used as His dwelling place, as His temple, as His body that He uses to get things done in this world. Like He told Moses that the ground he stood on was Holy, so we are indeed the ground that He stands on.

Those walking after the flesh are no longer holy... the Lord made them holy when they got born again, and then many started listening to false teachers who told them the devil's message that it's not possible to lose their salvation and so many fall away because of this thinking it's OK to continue in sin

All because people like gnarly Charlie Stanley that one is still saved even if they continue living in sin! clueless-doh.gif
 

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,573
12,984
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The Difference between RIGHTEOUSNESS and HOLINESS…

Righteousness ~ Doing what IS right.
Holiness ~ Perfected IN Christ.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Karl Peters

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2021
1,463
678
113
66
Fontana
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
This is a common response. However, you used two passages and neither are NOT about Christians. Let me help you.

1 John 1:
6 If we that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
8 If we that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
10 If we that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

What these are saying is found in chapter 2.

1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin (Karl, from your posts you seem to believe Jesus didn't mean what He said, and that to not ever sin is impossible. Chapter 1 are contrasts between LIGHT (5, 7, 9) and DARKNESS (6, 8, 10). The lesson is there are people to walk the walk, and there are others who only talk the talk, but lie.

4 He who “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

The same can be said about Romans 7 that you've taken out of contrast. Verses 14-25 is about the Jews under the Ten Commandments who must try to keep them when they are burdened by their sin nature (the old man). The previous chapter has already shown you that the sin nature is dead, crucified and resurrected FREE FROM SIN. The context of the verses you quoted starts at verse 5 showing Paul's present state from chapter 6 of being free from sin called "the flesh." Read this carefully.

Romans 7:5-6
5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not the oldness of the letter.

John was indeed writing to Christians!!!

How you miss this is amazing, but not surprising given that you say you have no sin.

For example you quoted "What these are saying is found in chapter 2.

1 My little children, these things I write to you"

So John is in fact writing to those he calls "My little children"!! But you write: "you used two passages and neither are NOT about Christians.

John was indeed writing to Christians, even the early church!! Although he is also pointing out what it is like to not be a Christian, so a wise person might realize they have a problem. And those two verse you reference in John's letter (1 John) to the early church.

It is no use and indeed makes no sense to say on the one hand that he is writing to the church and on the other hand not to the church, like you just did!! The Lord makes sense, so John writing to the church would make sense, and Paul also.

And there is a number of misinterpretations you have made.

The ones I already brought up is a very important one to understand - which is if you say:

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.

That is important to you, because that is what you are doing - saying you have no sin!!! Trying to us another verse to disprove any verse is wrong. All verses must be correct if you have the right understanding. Therefore if you say you have not sin you are indeed deceiving yourself and the truth is not in you!!! Trying to say that is not correct is to deny the Sacred Writing, and the Lord behind them.

Still, it take some understanding to know how they go together. The understanding you are looking for is not found by leaning on your own understanding, but rather by seeking our Lord Jesus Christ and listening to Him. This is seen in your writing, " Let me help you",. and you can see the difference in what you say and my saying that you need to listen to Him so that He might help you. If you indeed knew Him like you should, you main concern would be that people get help from Him, not you!! Your basic message is all wrong, because you point to yourself and not Him.

For example you wrote:

"1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin (Karl, from your posts you seem to believe Jesus didn't mean what He said, and that to not ever sin is impossible. Chapter 1 are contrasts between LIGHT (5, 7, 9) and DARKNESS (6, 8, 10). The lesson is there are people to walk the walk, and there are others who only talk the talk, but lie."

And you made false assumptions about what you read. You seem to thing that because John was writing so that we 'may not sin', that thus must apply to every moment of the rest of our lives. But that goes back your thinking - taking the attitude - that you have achieved perfection! And we already went over that problem. Paul did not take that attitude that you have.

Phil 3:13 Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead,

What you are missing is that doing the right thing means listening to the Lord and doing what He askes. Therefore John was writing so that they would seek the Lord, listen to Him, and do what He asked them to do. We want to do that, and so we advise people to do that, but doing it at one moment does not mean you do it in every moment!! If indeed you did always do and say what the Lord told you, then you would indeed be as Jesus Christ, but we don't. So, we encourage each other to listen, so that we, like Paul, do not regard ourselves as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, which is not like you.

Do you not even see that Paul wrote "forgetting what lies behind" and then "reaching foreword to what lies ahead."

Why did Paul write it that way? Do you not know? The Lord is faithful to forget our sins, and that so that we can turn our focus to not trying to continue in our sin, but rather to again seek Him and His voice for the instructions as to what He wants us to do next - that is to say 'what lies ahead."

This is a regular turning back to Him for our instructions! Indeed those words to us that we hear are called His 'commandments'. Yet your mind goes back to the "Ten Commandments" That shows that you are thinking about the Law written on stone, and not every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. You think that way because you don't listen to Him who is always with you as your Lord. You might say Jesus Christ is Lord, but you don't confess Him as your Lord, though you don't realize that. One of the temptations that Satan tried to get Jesus on was to make bread out of the stones in the desert, but you don't realize what Satan was actually asking. Satan was asking Jesus Christ to stop doing and saying only what the Father was telling Him via the Spirit of God, and to start leaning on His own understanding!

Now you vaguely refer to walking in the light and walking in the darkness, but you fail to understand that that mean.

Jesus Christ is the Light!!!

Jn 8:12 Then Jesus again spoke to them, saying, “I am the Light of the world; he who follows Me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the Light of life.”

You are thinking that if you by leaning on your own understanding, do what you think is right then you do not sin. But that is not the case. Indeed, if you lean on your own understanding, you will always sin. So, to not sin you must walk with Jesus Christ, listen to Him, and do what He says.


1 Jn 1:5,6 This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth;

Now look at the above verses - note the "we have heard from Him" part!! That is the most important part of those verses. Do what is right starts with hearing from Him, as I have already noted!

And then note how it is written next - "and announce to you, that God is light" That is what I wrote to you about how you wrote "Let me help you, as opposed to pointing others, even ourselves, to Him!

Then note that it is written, "in Him there is not darkness", but you interpret that to mean in you there is no darkness at all in you. It does not say that, but you assume that because in Him there is not darkness that it means in you there is not darkness. That is a false assumption! I have already pointed out the principle that sin is in us, which Paul the Christain man who followed the Lord and wrote many of the letters in the Bible, like Romans explained in Romans 7! For that reason, you again find yourself deny that verse:

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.

As if that verse can be torn out of the Bible and tossed, so that our interpretation can be counted as correct.

And now not the next part of 1 Jn 1:5,6: It reads, "If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie "
This points exactly to what I am telling you about not leaning on our own understanding but instead we are to seek Him in all things.

Prov 3:5-7 Trust in the LORD with all your heart And do not lean on your own understanding.
In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He will make your paths straight.
Do not be wise in your own eyes; Fear the LORD and turn away from evil.

Indeed, since He is the light we must seek Him and listen to Him, like I keep trying to explain.
 

Karl Peters

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2021
1,463
678
113
66
Fontana
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Those walking after the flesh are no longer holy... the Lord made them holy when they got born again, and then many started listening to false teachers who told them the devil's message that it's not possible to lose their salvation and so many fall away because of this thinking it's OK to continue in sin

All because people like gnarly Charlie Stanley that one is still saved even if they continue living in sin! View attachment 37842

Jn 2:7 “While I was fainting away,
I remembered the LORD,
And my prayer came to You,
Into Your holy temple.

Rom 7:25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.

2 Cor 6:16 Or what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; just as God said,
“I WILL DWELL IN THEM AND WALK AMONG THEM;
AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.

Humm= you have a rather poor understanding of what is going on inside you!

Is it not written that we are the temple of God, and do you not see that the temple of God is a holy place???

Yet at the same time we should also be aware of the battle that takes place in us!!!

Paul was aware of this - that the battle was in him. Paul was thanking God through Jesus Christ our Lord, yet still he found himself serving both the law of God and also the law of sin. How is it that Paul, the Christian man, knew this but you do not?
 

1stCenturyLady

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2018
5,327
2,165
113
76
Tennessee
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
John was indeed writing to Christians!!!

Paul is writing to his congregation about the Gnostics who were infiltrating the churches and spreading heresies, 1 John 4:1-3. One of those heresies is what you, yourself, teach as I already showed you in Jude 1:4. Jesus wrote a prophetic letter to Sardis which we all know was the era of the Reformation. The first teachings that came out of that era were the popular teachings of Martin Luther and John Calvin, neither one were scholars. Jesus said to them, “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead." That means their doctrines do not produce eternal life in their followers, but eternal death and damnation.

1 My little children, these things I write to you"

WOW! Look what you couldn't write! "that you may not SIN!!! Can you say the name above all names, "JESUS"?

Karl, you need to repent and come out of those heretical teachings of death. It is like you are spreading the plague!
 
  • Wow
Reactions: L.A.M.B.

L.A.M.B.

Well-Known Member
Mar 22, 2022
4,383
5,791
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
If one is more about the hearing and NOT the doing also of the word of God, then I just have to leave them in God's hands for I cannot gelp them.
James 1:
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
 

Eternally Grateful

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2020
14,559
8,248
113
58
Columbus, ohio
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
WOW! Look what you couldn't write! "that you may not SIN!!! Can you say the name above all names, "JESUS"?

Karl, you need to repent and come out of those heretical teachings of death. It is like you are spreading the plague!
This is deceptive,

"that you may not sin" has no bearing on the point he was making, the point he was making was that it was written to Christians.
 

L.A.M.B.

Well-Known Member
Mar 22, 2022
4,383
5,791
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States

Hebrews 4:

12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing aunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

The word of God divides the flesh from the Spirit in the whole council. We are to rightly divide in contextual understanding of the word by the Spirit.

This does not mean we get to leave it unsaid the whole of the word to make our point. We must handle the word of God for the profiting of the kingdom of God, not of ourselves.

 

Karl Peters

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2021
1,463
678
113
66
Fontana
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Paul is writing to his congregation about the Gnostics who were infiltrating the churches and spreading heresies, 1 John 4:1-3. One of those heresies is what you, yourself, teach as I already showed you in Jude 1:4. Jesus wrote a prophetic letter to Sardis which we all know was the era of the Reformation. The first teachings that came out of that era were the popular teachings of Martin Luther and John Calvin, neither one were scholars. Jesus said to them, “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead." That means their doctrines do not produce eternal life in their followers, but eternal death and damnation.



WOW! Look what you couldn't write! "that you may not SIN!!! Can you say the name above all names, "JESUS"?

Karl, you need to repent and come out of those heretical teachings of death. It is like you are spreading the plague!

The Lord is not impressed with pride, and especially when it concerns us thinking we are smarter than Him!!!!!

He knows what He made in us, and so He knows perfectly well that we are not Him. He is not expecting us to be Him but He does expect that we will listen to Him! So what He does not like is our attitude that we have achieve perfection by leaning on our own understanding. Even anyone who has briefly read through the Bible should understand this, but certainly anyone who in fact spends time listening would know that He does not appreciate that "religious attitude" that people tend to get into!!!!

It is a spirit of pride, that the devil like to push on people!! Where as actually seeking Him and actually listening to Him comes from humility, at least enough humility to think that God is actually there and smarter than we are. So Religion denies that God is actually there with us and also that He is smarter then us. And this thread and the responses in it are another great example of that "religious" attitude that our Lord Jesus Christ hates!

Note He does not hate the people who thought their religious understanding would save them, but He hates that "attitude"!!! Which is what He talked to me about this morning in the shower, and is what He asked me to go over on the forum, even before reading the post attached above.

First, in the OP we find someone apparently wanting to find out something about what's holy and what is righteous. Of course it was not surprising to find a person who thought they were holy and righteous, even without sin. That is one of the things those prideful religious people like to bring up because they feel they are superior to other people. The fact is that they are just pretending and white washing themselves to appear holy and righteous. If they were actually holy and righteous, they would be actually seeking Jesus Christ the Lord our God, and they would have a much better understanding of what being holy and righteous actually means, so they wouldn't have to ask.

Being holy just means that the Lord intents to use us. He does not have to have a perfect tool to use it. He can use a piece of ground that is just made of dirt, and His use of that ground that is just dirt is now holy ground!!

But am I talking about the ground Moses was standing on when the Lord told Him, "Then He said, “Do not come near here; remove your sandals from your feet, for the place on which you are standing is holy ground.”???

No, not as you think! The dirt Moses was standing on was just dirt, but God speaks in parables, so that those who do not believe in Him, 'with their eyes they will not see and with their ears they will barely hear.

Is 6: 9 -11 He said, “Go, and tell this people: ‘Keep on listening, but do not perceive; Keep on looking, but do not understand.’
“Render the hearts of this people insensitive, Their ears dull, And their eyes dim,
Otherwise they might see with their eyes, Hear with their ears, Understand with their hearts, And return and be healed.”
Then I said, “Lord, how long?” And He answered, “Until cities are devastated and without inhabitant,
Houses are without people And the land is utterly desolate,

So it was written in parables and dark sayings, so only those who truly believed in Him (His real disciples) would turn to Him for understanding, and listen to Him personally! And so what is actually going on here?

Was the dirt, the ground Moses was standing on the dirty under his sandals, or Moses himself? Do you still have no understanding?

Gen 2:7 Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

We are dirt that He blew into, and the dirt was neither good nor bad but just dirt that He might blow into. Yet some want to think that they are "HOLY AND RIGHTEOUS"!!!!!!!

It is that prideful attitude that He hates. Did that come from Him blowing into them, or from them leaning on their own understanding?

God can give you life eternal, but it is not because you are some incredible being. We are dirt that He either speaks into or not!! Still to some He gave the command, " ‘Keep on listening, but do not perceive; Keep on looking, but do not understand." , and that so they would not turn back to Him!! And yet even that command, had the foremost command in it, which is 'Hear, O Israel'.

Is 1:2 Listen, O heavens, and hear, O earth; For the LORD speaks,
“Sons I have reared and brought up, But they have revolted against Me.

Isaiah started with that command, then in chapter six explains how it had come about that he started with that command from the Lord. And in the same way have I not brought up the same command, over and over and over even on this thread, that you need to listen to the Lord?

So how is it that I can boldly and being straight forward, say to listen to Him, but it is not heard and responded to?

Is 1:5 Where will you be stricken again, As you continue in your rebellion?
The whole head is sick And the whole heart is faint.

Even before Isaiah wrote, had they not been told over and over to listen to the Lord? But their whole head is sick!!

They were a religious and rebellious people, thinking themselves to be the holy and righteous people even though they would not listen to the Lord!1

They had the wrong attitude!! Paul did not have that attitude, and wrote plainly:

Phil 3:13-15 Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that also to you;

And so it was that Paul and Isaiah was told to write to those people, because as Paul mentioned, "God will reveal that also to you"! So even if you don't listen to Him, He has someone write about the problem with your "attitude."

They tell people they are the holy and righteous ones. but those who know Him know He is the real Holy and Righteous One! it is nice of Him to speak into us, and if we listen we will get that understanding and then the ground (ourselves) that we are standing on will be holy! They don't understand, because understanding comes from His voice and not their understanding.

They tell people they need to repent of their sins, because they read something about that. But real repentance actually means turning from you ways and your understanding to listening to Him for His ways and instructions to you and thus His understanding! so again their failure to listen resulted in their failure to understand. And their rebellion against Him will continue, will it not?

Is 30:9 For this is a rebellious people, false sons, Sons who refuse to listen To the instruction of the LORD;

It is the attitude that is the problem: that attitude that cause some to refuse to listen to the instruction of the Lord!

Still they will not listen to Him and claim they are the holy and righteous ones, because they have whitewashed themselves. They are those Jesus spoke of and still does.

Mat 16:12 Then they understood that He did not say to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

We are holy only because He decide to blow/speak into us. Which is to say we are holy only because He decided to use us. We are still the dirt, the dust, that He decided to us. We are the ground He decided to make His dwelling place. Sin still works in our flesh and that is a principle, a fact, that Paul the Christian man came to understand.

And John also so He wrote:" If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us."

And so because of pride that they let in, they are deceiving themselves and the truth is not in them. So again, should we not again point them back to our Lord Jesus Christ, and tell them to listen to Him? Should we not be willing to do the work of God when He asks us to while in the shower?
 

1stCenturyLady

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2018
5,327
2,165
113
76
Tennessee
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The Lord is not impressed with pride, and especially when it concerns us thinking we are smarter than Him!!!!!

He knows what He made in us, and so He knows perfectly well that we are not Him. He is not expecting us to be Him but He does expect that we will listen to Him! So what He does not like is our attitude that we have achieve perfection by leaning on our own understanding. Even anyone who has briefly read through the Bible should understand this, but certainly anyone who in fact spends time listening would know that He does not appreciate that "religious attitude" that people tend to get into!!!!

It is a spirit of pride, that the devil like to push on people!! Where as actually seeking Him and actually listening to Him comes from humility, at least enough humility to think that God is actually there and smarter than we are. So Religion denies that God is actually there with us and also that He is smarter then us. And this thread and the responses in it are another great example of that "religious" attitude that our Lord Jesus Christ hates!

Note He does not hate the people who thought their religious understanding would save them, but He hates that "attitude"!!! Which is what He talked to me about this morning in the shower, and is what He asked me to go over on the forum, even before reading the post attached above.

First, in the OP we find someone apparently wanting to find out something about what's holy and what is righteous. Of course it was not surprising to find a person who thought they were holy and righteous, even without sin. That is one of the things those prideful religious people like to bring up because they feel they are superior to other people. The fact is that they are just pretending and white washing themselves to appear holy and righteous. If they were actually holy and righteous, they would be actually seeking Jesus Christ the Lord our God, and they would have a much better understanding of what being holy and righteous actually means, so they wouldn't have to ask.

Being holy just means that the Lord intents to use us. He does not have to have a perfect tool to use it. He can use a piece of ground that is just made of dirt, and His use of that ground that is just dirt is now holy ground!!

But am I talking about the ground Moses was standing on when the Lord told Him, "Then He said, “Do not come near here; remove your sandals from your feet, for the place on which you are standing is holy ground.”???

No, not as you think! The dirt Moses was standing on was just dirt, but God speaks in parables, so that those who do not believe in Him, 'with their eyes they will not see and with their ears they will barely hear.

Is 6: 9 -11 He said, “Go, and tell this people: ‘Keep on listening, but do not perceive; Keep on looking, but do not understand.’
“Render the hearts of this people insensitive, Their ears dull, And their eyes dim,
Otherwise they might see with their eyes, Hear with their ears, Understand with their hearts, And return and be healed.”
Then I said, “Lord, how long?” And He answered, “Until cities are devastated and without inhabitant,
Houses are without people And the land is utterly desolate,

So it was written in parables and dark sayings, so only those who truly believed in Him (His real disciples) would turn to Him for understanding, and listen to Him personally! And so what is actually going on here?

Was the dirt, the ground Moses was standing on the dirty under his sandals, or Moses himself? Do you still have no understanding?

Gen 2:7 Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

We are dirt that He blew into, and the dirt was neither good nor bad but just dirt that He might blow into. Yet some want to think that they are "HOLY AND RIGHTEOUS"!!!!!!!

It is that prideful attitude that He hates. Did that come from Him blowing into them, or from them leaning on their own understanding?

God can give you life eternal, but it is not because you are some incredible being. We are dirt that He either speaks into or not!! Still to some He gave the command, " ‘Keep on listening, but do not perceive; Keep on looking, but do not understand." , and that so they would not turn back to Him!! And yet even that command, had the foremost command in it, which is 'Hear, O Israel'.

Is 1:2 Listen, O heavens, and hear, O earth; For the LORD speaks,
“Sons I have reared and brought up, But they have revolted against Me.

Isaiah started with that command, then in chapter six explains how it had come about that he started with that command from the Lord. And in the same way have I not brought up the same command, over and over and over even on this thread, that you need to listen to the Lord?

So how is it that I can boldly and being straight forward, say to listen to Him, but it is not heard and responded to?

Is 1:5 Where will you be stricken again, As you continue in your rebellion?
The whole head is sick And the whole heart is faint.

Even before Isaiah wrote, had they not been told over and over to listen to the Lord? But their whole head is sick!!

They were a religious and rebellious people, thinking themselves to be the holy and righteous people even though they would not listen to the Lord!1

They had the wrong attitude!! Paul did not have that attitude, and wrote plainly:

Phil 3:13-15 Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that also to you;

And so it was that Paul and Isaiah was told to write to those people, because as Paul mentioned, "God will reveal that also to you"! So even if you don't listen to Him, He has someone write about the problem with your "attitude."

They tell people they are the holy and righteous ones. but those who know Him know He is the real Holy and Righteous One! it is nice of Him to speak into us, and if we listen we will get that understanding and then the ground (ourselves) that we are standing on will be holy! They don't understand, because understanding comes from His voice and not their understanding.

They tell people they need to repent of their sins, because they read something about that. But real repentance actually means turning from you ways and your understanding to listening to Him for His ways and instructions to you and thus His understanding! so again their failure to listen resulted in their failure to understand. And their rebellion against Him will continue, will it not?

Is 30:9 For this is a rebellious people, false sons, Sons who refuse to listen To the instruction of the LORD;

It is the attitude that is the problem: that attitude that cause some to refuse to listen to the instruction of the Lord!

Still they will not listen to Him and claim they are the holy and righteous ones, because they have whitewashed themselves. They are those Jesus spoke of and still does.

Mat 16:12 Then they understood that He did not say to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

We are holy only because He decide to blow/speak into us. Which is to say we are holy only because He decided to use us. We are still the dirt, the dust, that He decided to us. We are the ground He decided to make His dwelling place. Sin still works in our flesh and that is a principle, a fact, that Paul the Christian man came to understand.

And John also so He wrote:" If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us."

And so because of pride that they let in, they are deceiving themselves and the truth is not in them. So again, should we not again point them back to our Lord Jesus Christ, and tell them to listen to Him? Should we not be willing to do the work of God when He asks us to while in the shower?
What you are saying is that anyone that teaches something you didn't know is full of pride. Okay, got it!
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Ritajanice

L.A.M.B.

Well-Known Member
Mar 22, 2022
4,383
5,791
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What you are saying is that anyone that teaches something you didn't know is full of pride. Okay, got it!
Lol, I can't even bear to try & read what one is saying in a lengthy post. ( thinking they be trying to divert from truth in a bunch of words)

Most if not all just skim in the reading of "too much" and myself included refrain from addressing these. Little in correct order by the Spirit's interpretation can say so much more than our many words!
 

Ritajanice

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Mar 9, 2023
5,826
3,844
113
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
In Hebrews 4:12, God's word is said to be “quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword.” The Greek word for quick means “alive, living, lively.” The Greek word for powerful means “full of energy, energized, active, effective.”
 

Karl Peters

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2021
1,463
678
113
66
Fontana
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hebrews 4:
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing aunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

The word of God divides the flesh from the Spirit in the whole council. We are to rightly divide in contextual understanding of the word by the Spirit.

This does not mean we get to leave it unsaid the whole of the word to make our point. We must handle the word of God for the profiting of the kingdom of God, not of ourselves.

This is a typical mistake that is often sadly made in Christianity. Too many claiming to be Christians think the Sacred Text is the word of God. They fail to understand that it is Jesus Christ the person who is the Word of God and that He is alive and always with us!!

Because of that misunderstanding they do things like quote Hebrews 4:12 and think it refers to the orderly lines of text that they read a little here and there, as opposed Him, the person who is the word of God, Jesus Christ!

Just look at the next verse and you will see they got it wrong!

Heb 4:13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are open and laid bare to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do.

Because they don't want to listen to Him, The Word of God, they miss the next verse which is written "And there is no creature hidden from His sight"!!!!

'The word of God who is , and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing of the soul and the spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart', is a OF COURSE A PERSON AND NOT A TEXT THAT YOU CAN 'CONTEXTUALIZE'!!!

Isaiah wrote on behalf of the Lord about this problem and Jesus Himself, who is the Word of God, spoke on this issue!

Is 28: 12,13 He who said to them, “Here is rest, give rest to the weary,” And, “Here is repose,” but they would not listen
So the word of the LORD to them will be, “Order on order, order on order,
Line on line, line on line, A little here, a little there,”
That they may go and stumble backward, be broken, snared and taken captive.

It was explained that if you will "not listen" the word of the Lord to you will be those orderly lines of text that you read a little and there instead of Him talking to you so that you listen to Him personally!! And that mistake of not listening to Him results in you "stubling backwards, being broken, snared and taken captive!!

So it was the Jesus told the Jews:


Jn 5: 38-40 “You do not have His word abiding in you, for you do not believe Him whom He sent.
"You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me;
and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life."

Those people then, and many now also fail to realize that the Word of God we preach is not the Scriptures!!!! The Scriptures do not abide in us Jesus does, if we let Him into our lives by listening to Him!!

So it is that the good news is:

Rev 3:20 ‘Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

Do you not read that He will come in to him who hears and opens up to Him???

And indeed, if a person is in fact born again we hear Him via the Holy Spirit and testify to hearing from Him that so they might seek Him, like is explained in the Scriptures!

Yet it is also written that they will not accept our testimony!

Jn 3:8-11 “The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?”
Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things?
“Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony.

This is how it was and how it still is. There are those like Nicodemus that Pharisee who consider themselves teachers of others but do not hear the sound of the wind because the Holy Spirit of The Lord is not in them. So we testify to them about what we have seen and heard, but they do not accept our testimony. And that simply because they are not will to come to Him!!

Indeed, out testimony was all about getting them to go to Him and listen to Him, but they are unwilling to do that, so they are also not willing to listen to us telling them to actually seek Him and listen to Him!

Ezek 3 :4-7Then He said to me, “Son of man, go to the house of Israel and speak with My words to them. “For you are not being sent to a people of unintelligible speech or difficult language, but to the house of Israel, nor to many peoples of unintelligible speech or difficult language, whose words you cannot understand. But I have sent you to them who should listen to you; yet the house of Israel will not be willing to listen to you, since they are not willing to listen to Me. Surely the whole house of Israel is stubborn and obstinate.

There is nothing new under the sun. The work of God is still to preach the Word of God, meaning Jesus Christ and Him wanting to talk to us personally, so that all should come to know the Son!!

Yet not all will. Can a stubborn and obstinate repent of their ways and listen to Him for His ways? Or will they continually deceive themselves by saying they have no sin, so they don't need to listen to Him. They tell themselves that He must either be dead or in a far off place called heaven to maybe return some day! But that is not the Word of God we are preaching!!

Rom 10:6-9 But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: “DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, ‘WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?’ (that is, to bring Christ down), or ‘WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).” But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

Still, they won't listen, will they?

Will they not continue to say the Bible is the word of God that somehow can divide and discern your thoughts?? Can any writing think so as to discern. Can any writing take action so as to be quick. Is any writing alive? Are you not making an idol out of the Bible?
 

Karl Peters

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2021
1,463
678
113
66
Fontana
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
In Hebrews 4:12, God's word is said to be “quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword.” The Greek word for quick means “alive, living, lively.” The Greek word for powerful means “full of energy, energized, active, effective.”

It actually says the word of God, not God's word - but why is that slight difference important?

It is important because Jesus Christ is the Word of God, and He is alive! And He is powerful, or did you not read that a child will be born to us and He will be called "Might God"

Therefore you are making an idol out of your Bible, are you not??

The writings are clearly not quick!! I put then down next to my chair and to this day they have not move at all from where I put them. So if in fact they move at all they don't move quickly???? Unless ..... wooooh .... perhaps they are moving quickly around the room when I am not looking???? what do you think???

Silly Silly Silly people.. who has been talking to them that they think writings are quick, are powerful, and are alive and active???

Are they honestly living in some sci-fi imaginary world???

Yet God is spirit and He can move around quickly, and He has power, and He is alive. Jesus has a name, "The Word of God" and though He died He rose again and is not alive and active. He even talks to us, via His Holy Spirit, so that we hear from Him.

Of course there are some who think we are living in some strange world, by just saying we are hearing from Him. So they come up with their own strange conclusions!

Num 26:61 But Nadab and Abihu died when they offered strange fire before the LORD.

What is the Lord going to do about them?

Ok, us Christian are peculiar people, because we do actually hear the Lord our God Jesus Christ, via the Holy Spirit. He talks to us, and we hear Him. He indwells us and so we know Him. And as for me, I didn't know Him until I was over 40. Yet for the last 20 plus years I have been hearing from Him. So I can understand the mistake they are making, but how are they making it? Is it not because they are not hearing from Him?

Jn 8:43 “Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word.

They do not understand what I am saying because they cannot hear His words spoken to them. Perhaps if with all their heart they were to seek Him and what He has to say to them? Perhaps if they repented of their ways and their leaning on their own understanding and really wanted to hear from Him? Perhaps they could mustard up just enough faith to for a moment actually seek Him, would they then find Him?

Mat 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
 

Ritajanice

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Mar 9, 2023
5,826
3,844
113
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
It actually says the word of God, not God's word - but why is that slight difference important?

It is important because Jesus Christ is the Word of God, and He is alive! And He is powerful, or did you not read that a child will be born to us and He will be called "Might God"

Therefore you are making an idol out of your Bible, are you not??

The writings are clearly not quick!! I put then down next to my chair and to this day they have not move at all from where I put them. So if in fact they move at all they don't move quickly???? Unless ..... wooooh .... perhaps they are moving quickly around the room when I am not looking???? what do you think???

Silly Silly Silly people.. who has been talking to them that they think writings are quick, are powerful, and are alive and active???

Are they honestly living in some sci-fi imaginary world???

Yet God is spirit and He can move around quickly, and He has power, and He is alive. Jesus has a name, "The Word of God" and though He died He rose again and is not alive and active. He even talks to us, via His Holy Spirit, so that we hear from Him.

Of course there are some who think we are living in some strange world, by just saying we are hearing from Him. So they come up with their own strange conclusions!

Num 26:61 But Nadab and Abihu died when they offered strange fire before the LORD.

What is the Lord going to do about them?

Ok, us Christian are peculiar people, because we do actually hear the Lord our God Jesus Christ, via the Holy Spirit. He talks to us, and we hear Him. He indwells us and so we know Him. And as for me, I didn't know Him until I was over 40. Yet for the last 20 plus years I have been hearing from Him. So I can understand the mistake they are making, but how are they making it? Is it not because they are not hearing from Him?

Jn 8:43 “Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word.

They do not understand what I am saying because they cannot hear His words spoken to them. Perhaps if with all their heart they were to seek Him and what He has to say to them? Perhaps if they repented of their ways and their leaning on their own understanding and really wanted to hear from Him? Perhaps they could mustard up just enough faith to for a moment actually seek Him, would they then find Him?

Mat 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
If I could make head and tale of your post , I would answer it, it’s full of manmade jargon.....oh my word, what a load of confused “ junk”.....imo.

Thank you Lord ,that your word is clear and coherent.....when spoken in the Spirit, by the Spirit of God.
 

L.A.M.B.

Well-Known Member
Mar 22, 2022
4,383
5,791
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
This is a typical mistake that is often sadly made in Christianity. Too many claiming to be Christians think the Sacred Text is the word of God. They fail to understand that it is Jesus Christ the person who is the Word of God and that He is alive and always with us!!

Because of that misunderstanding they do things like quote Hebrews 4:12 and think it refers to the orderly lines of text that they read a little here and there, as opposed Him, the person who is the word of God, Jesus Christ!

Just look at the next verse and you will see they got it wrong!
FYI
Just so you know Karl, I do not engage with you per we have already danced this dance to the same ole tune.
Your motto is rinse, spit, then repeat. Thinking if one says the same over & over & over ppl will buy into it.

You are free to say everybody else is wrong but you. I'd rather not put one on ignore for fear of missing those WHOM ACTUALLY QUOTE & KNOW THE TRUTH, let's just rather not engage. So please do not address me further !
Thanks.
 

Big Boy Johnson

Well-Known Member
Sep 28, 2023
3,561
1,446
113
North America
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Is it not written that we are the temple of God

Sure it is... in the New Testament

1 Corinthians 6:19, 20
Your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you, which you have of God, and you are not your own....for you are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

1 Corinthians 3:16,17
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
If any man destroys the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Maybe your bible is defective???

Christians think the Sacred Text is the word of God.

Jesus Christ cannot be separated from what God says simply because Jesus Christ IS the Word of God that has come in the flesh. If Jesus was standing before you and you asked Him questions... He would ghive you answers from the Bible as He is personally responsible for the content of God's written Word.

John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 1:1-3

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Hebrews 1:3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power,


*God's power is IN Hiw Word... the Word of God is IN His written Word, the Bible.

John 12:48-50
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

We cannot know the Father without accepting His Word.... which is what He has to say
 
  • Love
Reactions: L.A.M.B.

Karl Peters

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2021
1,463
678
113
66
Fontana
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
FYI
Just so you know Karl, I do not engage with you per we have already danced this dance to the same ole tune.
Your motto is rinse, spit, then repeat. Thinking if one says the same over & over & over ppl will buy into it.

You are free to say everybody else is wrong but you. I'd rather not put one on ignore for fear of missing those WHOM ACTUALLY QUOTE & KNOW THE TRUTH, let's just rather not engage. So please do not address me further !
Thanks.

If you have dances with Him, then surely you have talked to Him, right?

And even if you don't care to believe it, there are many who do actually hear from our Lord Jesus Christ everyday call Today. They maybe thought of as the remnant, or perhaps those not going to the big gate called "Religion", but there will be a great multitude. His sheep do hear His voice. He actually talks to us in words that we pick up in our spirit. His first words to me that I heard were "Read You Bible", but by Him saying that to me He proved that He was not the Bible but rather The Word of God who can and does speak to us!!

Of course if you don't want to listen to Him and dance with Him, ultimately that is up to you. So ok!