The difference in churches

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theefaith

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@Philip James

Luther,

Wrote 95 points were the "leaders," men, mankind had drifted not only outside the scope of the, Bible, Gods Word, But that to continue down that road is folly.

If everyone cannot use scriptures to test the leaders. Then church is a fools folly, as false teaching goes unchallenged!

Leaders have a desire to lead, how to test that someone has a true heart is leading true is has to be tested. The Bible gives the least of believers the ability to test. Jesus taught to test the leaders, Paul teaches test the leaders yes test even him.

There are many false churches today, some are closer to true then THE CHURCH of Luther's day. Failing to or not being allowed to question, allowed to test the leader or leader, is the foundation of these false churches.


Alfredthefifth

since Martin Luther is you’re inspiration (not Christ) are you going to be a monk of st. Augustine also?
Or a Rosa crucian occultist?
 

Alfredthefifth

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The Church was teachinh and spreading the Gospel begore one stroke of the NT was penned.

Scripture points to the Church having authority not johnny come lately weilding our sacred texts..



Did you miss the part where He told his disciples, 'do what they say because they sit in Moses' seat'..

Or the part where care for the vineyard would be taken from them and given to others..

Stop following the traditions of men, and come to the Feast!

Pax et Bonum

Who said you cant test the leader? If je is teaching heresy report him to your bishop, bring a charge against him in the competant eccliasial court, pray for him!!

But leave the community of the apostles? Abandon your brothers and sisters to the 'alleged' wolf?

Leave the Table of the Lord?

They went out from us, but they were not really of our number; if they had been, they would have remained with us. Their desertion shows that none of them was of our number.

All are welcome to come to the wedding Feast of the Lamb of God!

Pax et Bonum

So the BISHOP being the source of the false teachings, makes false teachings good teachings?

One church body the nepotism is so rife that select heirs are going to be the leaders no matter how morally bankrupt those men are.
Even if someone can get past the family guardians of the heir apparents the Family protection system is going to deflect anything that needs to be addressed.

@theefaith
I guess you are going to tell me that the church never taught that worshipping a relic absolved sin?
That access to relics didn’t have to be purchased so one could get sins absolved?

What funded the great cathedrals?

Writs of indulgence are a historical fact tied to the funding for building one of the great cathedrals.

The wealth be taken from poor countries by the church in many schemes of man, is what caused Kings, Princes and governments to back the REFORMATION.

But what buoyed the Reformation is returning the Salvation of Christ into a church of Works and buying redemption.

Yes Luther questioned the Bishops and motives of those Bishops. But the Bishops convicted Luther in themselves!

The Pharisees were right along! This what infallibility of the Bishops teaches because They the Pharisees were the Bishops of their day!

If you cannot see that the Bishops are people that not only want leadership they strive for leadership. Something that we are expressly taught to question. May God have mercy on your soul.

Because Jesus taught us to be ware of false leaders, prophets, teachers. Not only taught but to be ware of but be aware of and to know that they not only abound as many but in many shapes and forms.

I have to follow a bishop in all things?

No I am taught otherwise by Jesus himself! In scriptures and in the Holy Spirit.

Alfredthefifth
 

Philip James

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So the BISHOP being the source of the false teachings, makes false teachings good teachings?

If a bishop or group of bishops is teaching heresy it is the duty of other bishops and especially the bishop of Rome to sanction them..

Leavinh the communuty is NOT an option according to St. John..

Trust the Holy Spirit! He ensures the Church teaches and passes on the Truth from one generation to the next despite the failings of men..

Consider, the Church in Alexandria and the Church in Rome have not neen in full communion for over 1500 years yet recognizably teach the One Faith..

After only 500 years of the 'reformation' how many different 'churches' teaching wildly different things have sprung up on the abscence of Episcopal authoritt?

This is the natural result of the 'non serviam' that is the unspoken tenat at the heart of the protestant rebellion.

Why do the nations protest and the peoples grumble in vain?

Kings on earth rise up and princes plot together against the LORD and his anointed:

"Let us break their shackles and cast off their chains!"



Pax et Bonum
 

Alfredthefifth

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since Martin Luther is you’re inspiration (not Christ) are you going to be a monk of st. Augustine also?
Or a Rosa crucian occultist?

Did Bishops protect the priests that sexually abused children? Or is this propaganda also?
If the Bishops knowingly protected child abusers, did these child abusers become Bishops also?

The Bishops most certainly hid and otherwise protected those priests. Why? And this isn't to be questioned? Without the Bishops help this wouldn't be the issue it became.

The CHURH'S Bishops one task is to KEEP the church looking as good as possible. Doing this to the point of labeling most if not all questions, using the tools of the Bible, herecy

The nuns that beat the Church out the students in the schools they ran are going history when my generation passes on. But in my generation they still are known, in fact. But yes men and women my age suffered those nuns. I have been privileged to know many men and women that the nuns beat supposedly satan out of but in fact beat the church out of. Did parents complain to the BISHOPS, yes they did! Parents of Children with health concerns complained that the nuns unreasonable beatings were jeopardizing the kids health. Which if anything caused even more beatings on those kids. This was Church Sanctioned so Bishop sanctioned. I am not allowed to question it?
Relics and icons the worship of, at least once in history was the only way to work righteousness? The forgiveness of sins. I guess that is propaganda also? What of worshipping idols? What else can be worshipping the relics and Icons be?
And I by myself in the Bible am not allowed to question this? That's for the bishops alone! Wait whose driving this bus? And over the cliff no less.
These are the reasons that Jesus taught us to question the leaders and direction of a church! LET ALONE THE CHURCH!
One unholy spirit unquestioned, unquestionable turns God's Church into a house of satan! It is so easy that satan has to delude people into that it can't happen! To get such vehement denial of a believers right to question the Church it's leaders, it's Bishops? Satan is dancing with joy!

JESUS, taught us to question, because rules and traditions of men are so enticing. PAUL, taught us to question all leaders, EVEN himself, because rules and traditions of men and false prophets can so easily corrupt a church.

If the Church is uncorruptable why the teachings? Why the warnings? Why the tools to measure? Given to all that hear and believe!

Yes Luther is a teacher and like Luther leaving THE CHURCH, I broke away from a Lutheran sect that is drifting away under the control of it's Bishops even though they refuse the title.

The Holy Spirit not long ago put me in a church that thr sect I was in claims is untrue. When I saw the Name of the Church the only one available because it was the same as the church of my youth I fought going into. The brief time I visited the Holy Spirit used that church to prove how far the church of my youth had drifted off course.

The Holy Spirit very active in me for several months met me in a church of the sect that confirmed the drift. The pastor of that church was droning on, way off base from the point trying to be made and I was in the Bible working up a corrective critique, in scripture so as not be a braying ass. When the Holy Spirit took me to a place of incredible wonder. For weeks I could enter the wonderful place freely. I questioned the place and the Spirit, the GRACE FORGIVENESS AND LOVE in that place convicted my heart.

Do I question the Church? Every and any church? Yes I do! God told me to! God taught me to! God shows me how to question! Why to question!

It is my soul in the balance!

Satan wants unquestioning followers to follow him into ................!

Alfredthefifth
 
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Alfredthefifth

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@Philip James

There are false churches, that I do not argue.

But when the nest is destroyed those in the nest scatter.
How many Bishops of 500 hundred years ago tried to make themselves something else fearing the retribution of those they hurt by being false? Only God knows! But once false always false.
How many opportunistic people find they can create a church regardless of anything? Yes it happens.
All the same reason why questioning the church, with questions coming from the least of the body, is staying soundly in the Bible ! In the Spirit and in God.

Alfredthefifth
 

Alfredthefifth

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@PhilipLink

In my journey I was instructed by the the Spirit to step out of being Lutheran.
Yes Luther is a teacher I hold dear. Now one of what has become many. I studied Luther's work more and deeper than the Lutheran Church wanted me to. Why, because Luther's teaching was being pushed aside to allow, families to hold prominence and in prominence deflect and even stop questions of corruption. "That is A LEADER! how dare you question a leader?" Where have I been hearing this? And how vehemently?

Yes I am a Christian! One that has learned from painful experience that questioning is the duty of all Christians.

YOU CAN NOT QUESTION

This is the underlying cause of all the different churches!
Just think if questioning was practiced as Jesus taught? Only one church!
As Paul taught ? Again only one church!

It is the lack of being able to question that created, creates new churches.

So be infallible no questions allowed. Guess what you just did? Created yet another church. You did it not me. The spirit has me in churches that he tested in me.

So yes I will continue to question. The Spirit instructs me to.
A true teacher will not worry about being questioned. Why because questioning assures the truth. A slight misspeak can be corrected by being questioned. A slight misspeak plus another misspeak ads up into a drift from truth if not outright lie. Do you argue the truth of this?

Alfredthefifth
 
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theefaith

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So the BISHOP being the source of the false teachings, makes false teachings good teachings?

One church body the nepotism is so rife that select heirs are going to be the leaders no matter how morally bankrupt those men are.
Even if someone can get past the family guardians of the heir apparents the Family protection system is going to deflect anything that needs to be addressed.

@theefaith
I guess you are going to tell me that the church never taught that worshipping a relic absolved sin?
That access to relics didn’t have to be purchased so one could get sins absolved?

What funded the great cathedrals?

Writs of indulgence are a historical fact tied to the funding for building one of the great cathedrals.

The wealth be taken from poor countries by the church in many schemes of man, is what caused Kings, Princes and governments to back the REFORMATION.

But what buoyed the Reformation is returning the Salvation of Christ into a church of Works and buying redemption.

Yes Luther questioned the Bishops and motives of those Bishops. But the Bishops convicted Luther in themselves!

The Pharisees were right along! This what infallibility of the Bishops teaches because They the Pharisees were the Bishops of their day!

If you cannot see that the Bishops are people that not only want leadership they strive for leadership. Something that we are expressly taught to question. May God have mercy on your soul.

Because Jesus taught us to be ware of false leaders, prophets, teachers. Not only taught but to be ware of but be aware of and to know that they not only abound as many but in many shapes and forms.

I have to follow a bishop in all things?

No I am taught otherwise by Jesus himself! In scriptures and in the Holy Spirit.

Alfredthefifth

Now the way to reach Christ is not hard to find: it is the Church. Rightly does Chrysostom inculcate: “The Church is thy hope, the Church is thy salvation, the Church is thy refuge.” (“Hom. de capto Euthropio,” n. 6.) It was for this that Christ founded it, gaining it at the price of His blood, and made it the depositary of His doctrine and His laws, bestowing upon it at the same time an inexhaustible treasury of graces for the sanctification and salvation of men.


Spiritual Fathers have care for our souls!

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:

Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

That makes Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!

Obedience of the faithful Christians or spiritual anarchy of the heretical fundamentalists!
 

theefaith

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So the BISHOP being the source of the false teachings, makes false teachings good teachings?

One church body the nepotism is so rife that select heirs are going to be the leaders no matter how morally bankrupt those men are.
Even if someone can get past the family guardians of the heir apparents the Family protection system is going to deflect anything that needs to be addressed.

@theefaith
I guess you are going to tell me that the church never taught that worshipping a relic absolved sin?
That access to relics didn’t have to be purchased so one could get sins absolved?

What funded the great cathedrals?

Writs of indulgence are a historical fact tied to the funding for building one of the great cathedrals.

The wealth be taken from poor countries by the church in many schemes of man, is what caused Kings, Princes and governments to back the REFORMATION.

But what buoyed the Reformation is returning the Salvation of Christ into a church of Works and buying redemption.

Yes Luther questioned the Bishops and motives of those Bishops. But the Bishops convicted Luther in themselves!

The Pharisees were right along! This what infallibility of the Bishops teaches because They the Pharisees were the Bishops of their day!

If you cannot see that the Bishops are people that not only want leadership they strive for leadership. Something that we are expressly taught to question. May God have mercy on your soul.

Because Jesus taught us to be ware of false leaders, prophets, teachers. Not only taught but to be ware of but be aware of and to know that they not only abound as many but in many shapes and forms.

I have to follow a bishop in all things?

No I am taught otherwise by Jesus himself! In scriptures and in the Holy Spirit.

Alfredthefifth

Was Luther and apostle? Did he have any authority from Christ?
Where does scripture say to have a reformation?
Where does scripture say anyone has authority to start new churches?
 

theefaith

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So the BISHOP being the source of the false teachings, makes false teachings good teachings?

One church body the nepotism is so rife that select heirs are going to be the leaders no matter how morally bankrupt those men are.
Even if someone can get past the family guardians of the heir apparents the Family protection system is going to deflect anything that needs to be addressed.

@theefaith
I guess you are going to tell me that the church never taught that worshipping a relic absolved sin?
That access to relics didn’t have to be purchased so one could get sins absolved?

What funded the great cathedrals?

Writs of indulgence are a historical fact tied to the funding for building one of the great cathedrals.

The wealth be taken from poor countries by the church in many schemes of man, is what caused Kings, Princes and governments to back the REFORMATION.

But what buoyed the Reformation is returning the Salvation of Christ into a church of Works and buying redemption.

Yes Luther questioned the Bishops and motives of those Bishops. But the Bishops convicted Luther in themselves!

The Pharisees were right along! This what infallibility of the Bishops teaches because They the Pharisees were the Bishops of their day!

If you cannot see that the Bishops are people that not only want leadership they strive for leadership. Something that we are expressly taught to question. May God have mercy on your soul.

Because Jesus taught us to be ware of false leaders, prophets, teachers. Not only taught but to be ware of but be aware of and to know that they not only abound as many but in many shapes and forms.

I have to follow a bishop in all things?

No I am taught otherwise by Jesus himself! In scriptures and in the Holy Spirit.

Alfredthefifth

no relic worship
Only God may be worshiped!
And we are absolved from sin the holy sacrament of confession!


Confession of sins:
Jn 20:23 / 1 Jn 1:9 / 2 cor 5:18
 

theefaith

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The most Common form of blasphemy!

Those who make themselves the only arbiter of truth!

They put themselves in the place of God!

God alone can determine truth and morals!

We must in humility be taught of God and Christ thru His church and apostles!

Pride, presumption, and arrogance are the high virtures of Protestantism fundamentalism!

Jn 1:16-17 grace and truth come by Jesus Christ!
Jn 14:6 Jesus Christ is truth!
1 Tim 3:15 the church is the pillar of truth!

We must be taught or instructed:
Lk 1:4
Matt 28:19
Jn 20:21
Acts 8:31

We cannot read scriptures and decide doctrine for ourselves according to scripture we must be “taught”!

Lk 1:4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Acts 8:31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

Acts 18:25
This man was instructed in the way of the Lord;

1 thes 4:6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:




Christ Taught:
Matt 5:2
Matt 7:29
Matt 13:54
Mark 1:21
Mark 1:22
Mark 2:13
Mark 4:2
Mark 9:31
Mark 10:1
Mark 11:17
Mark 12:35
Luke 4:15
Luke 4:31
Luke 5:3
Luke 6:6
Luke 13:26
Luke 19:47
Luke 20:1
John 6:59
John 7:14
John 7:28
John 8:2
John 8:20
John 18:20


Christ teaches with authority:
Matt 7:29
Mark 1:22


Apostles commanded to teach:
Matt 28:19

Apostles teach:
Mark 6:30
Acts 2:42
Acts 4:2
Acts 5:21
Acts 11:26
Acts 14:21
Acts 18:25
Acts 20:20
Col 2:7
2 thes 2:15
Titus 1:9









One faith!

Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism.

Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

One heart / one mind

Acts 4:32
And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul:

Romans 15:6
That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Apostles received the truth from Christ and are inspired by the Holy Spirit and are commanded to teach all men! Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13 Matt 28:19

Apostles have same mission, power, ministry, and authority as Christ!
Jn 20:21

The sacred deposit of faith

Thee faith once delivered to the saints! Jude 1:3

Without (revealed catholic) faith it is impossible to please God! Heb 11:6

The church possesses the truths revealed by Christ in person, not from scripture, Jude 1:3, 1 Tim 3:15
Matt 18:17

The church is eternal!

The same yesterday, today, and forever!

2 John 1:12
Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be full.
 

theefaith

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Did Bishops protect the priests that sexually abused children? Or is this propaganda also?
If the Bishops knowingly protected child abusers, did these child abusers become Bishops also?

The Bishops most certainly hid and otherwise protected those priests. Why? And this isn't to be questioned? Without the Bishops help this wouldn't be the issue it became.

The CHURH'S Bishops one task is to KEEP the church looking as good as possible. Doing this to the point of labeling most if not all questions, using the tools of the Bible, herecy

The nuns that beat the Church out the students in the schools they ran are going history when my generation passes on. But in my generation they still are known, in fact. But yes men and women my age suffered those nuns. I have been privileged to know many men and women that the nuns beat supposedly satan out of but in fact beat the church out of. Did parents complain to the BISHOPS, yes they did! Parents of Children with health concerns complained that the nuns unreasonable beatings were jeopardizing the kids health. Which if anything caused even more beatings on those kids. This was Church Sanctioned so Bishop sanctioned. I am not allowed to question it?
Relics and icons the worship of, at least once in history was the only way to work righteousness? The forgiveness of sins. I guess that is propaganda also? What of worshipping idols? What else can be worshipping the relics and Icons be?
And I by myself in the Bible am not allowed to question this? That's for the bishops alone! Wait whose driving this bus? And over the cliff no less.
These are the reasons that Jesus taught us to question the leaders and direction of a church! LET ALONE THE CHURCH!
One unholy spirit unquestioned, unquestionable turns God's Church into a house of satan! It is so easy that satan has to delude people into that it can't happen! To get such vehement denial of a believers right to question the Church it's leaders, it's Bishops? Satan is dancing with joy!

JESUS, taught us to question, because rules and traditions of men are so enticing. PAUL, taught us to question all leaders, EVEN himself, because rules and traditions of men and false prophets can so easily corrupt a church.

If the Church is uncorruptable why the teachings? Why the warnings? Why the tools to measure? Given to all that hear and believe!

Yes Luther is a teacher and like Luther leaving THE CHURCH, I broke away from a Lutheran sect that is drifting away under the control of it's Bishops even though they refuse the title.

The Holy Spirit not long ago put me in a church that thr sect I was in claims is untrue. When I saw the Name of the Church the only one available because it was the same as the church of my youth I fought going into. The brief time I visited the Holy Spirit used that church to prove how far the church of my youth had drifted off course.

The Holy Spirit very active in me for several months met me in a church of the sect that confirmed the drift. The pastor of that church was droning on, way off base from the point trying to be made and I was in the Bible working up a corrective critique, in scripture so as not be a braying ass. When the Holy Spirit took me to a place of incredible wonder. For weeks I could enter the wonderful place freely. I questioned the place and the Spirit, the GRACE FORGIVENESS AND LOVE in that place convicted my heart.

Do I question the Church? Every and any church? Yes I do! God told me to! God taught me to! God shows me how to question! Why to question!

It is my soul in the balance!

Satan wants unquestioning followers to follow him into ................!

Alfredthefifth

I thank God for the nuns that taught me in grade school!


The union Christ and His holy church or the unity of the holy church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles is such that it cannot be harmed by the sins of men!

Automatic excommunication is incured upon the exercise of the intellect and will to teach error or Hersey or to commit grave sin! Men are sinners, with a sin nature and free will, but we should choose that which is good and holy! Rom 6:13

So the bride is spotless and without blemish!

The members of Christ in communion with God and each other are in a state of sanctifying grace!

We deplore the sins and outrages of abuse, most of which is done by homo’s on young boys, in any group especially those calling themselves Christian, the communists began infiltration in the seminary’s in the 30’s and the modernist’s and homo’s in the 60’s and 70’s

This is a symptom of error and Hersey
Modernism or theological liberalism, of the modern apostasy and nowhere does the true church teach anyone to do these things, nor do the Protestant sects which have the same issues! And we don’t blame the Protestant sects or leaders!

Philippians 4:8
Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
 

Alfredthefifth

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@theefaith

Spiritual fathers have to care for our souls

Yet I have known spiritual fathers who smile at you while, openly and proven to lie through their teeth.
But because this is THE CHURCH I can not question it?
But we all men here!
Men that are subject to work of satan.

When the WORDS of Christ, are discounted because, "THIS THE CHURCH!" Formed by the Disciples.
What is this THE CHURCH, but a pack of lies.

The lack of honesty in THE CHURCH, the deflecting of questioning because we are the all and all.

The denying of historical fact backed up in many places and many historic records.

Allow for men to be unquestionable while the fruit is rotten.

Only a false prophet or false teacher desires not to be questioned, because in faithful questioning their true face is revealed. But their fruits still pile up around them eventually revealing the truth.

@theefaith

You read like a bot, a robot programmed to deflect all questions. Twisting all questions to be able to say, "LIES! All lies!"
I was in that church, because of a liar I was called a liar! The people that called me a liar avoid me, not because I was a liar but it proved they were caught up in and supporting the lie, of the liar, by not allowing questions to be asked.

Through the Holy Spirit I came out unharmed and a better Christian. But only through and with the Spirit of God holding me up.

Those that avoid me are the ones that supported the false and lieing head!

The Bishop says! It cannot be questioned! Satan is dancing here! Because there is no possibility of wrong! That suits Satan to well.

I do not argue there are NO FALSE churchs, these CHURCHES are born out of no questioning allowed and supported by NO QUESTIONING allowed.

If Satan expends all his energy on one man , whom would he PICK? The one man that because of his being unquestionable will lead many astray! This is why Paul taught "QUESTION even me!" This is why in your bot attitude, I reply as I do.
And your denial of historical facts? At least to me prove that, your THE CHURCH cannot be trusted. Denying the stumbles, end up denying the fall! This is why Jesus, said by THEIR fruits you shall know them, there will be false prophets masquerading as in me they are ravenous beast hungry to devour.

But I am wasting my efforts on a bot.


Alfredthefifth
 
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theefaith

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Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

matt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Lk 10:16 He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Jn 20:21-23
21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

2 Corinthians 5:18
And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

Ephesians 5:24
Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ…

Acts 8 the apostles bishops are guided by God, the Holy Spirit and angels!

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

spiritual anarchists are always afraid!
 

Alfredthefifth

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In Galatians 2
We see "Those Sent from JERUSALEM, (the high Christian church, with actual disciples taught by Christ) rebuked by Paul for adding Jewish customs to the Gospel.

Cephas, was apposed to his face for prior to the coming of certain men from James (then the high priest of THE CHURCH in Jerusalem) Cephas was in all things Christian. But when Jewish Christians came he became like a Jew. Adding Jewish burdens to Christianity.

If the Bishop had all authority and James by definition is a BISHOP! HOW does Paul get away with calling anyone out.


@theefaith

Paul also writes

You came to faith in God by the HOLY SPIRIT through the word of God. This gives you, the convert the aling with The Holy Spirit power to discern between the will of God and the will of men.

So yes in The Word Of GOD, I find I have to question the Bishops, CALL out the bishops and leave the Bishops when they fail BEING TESTED by THE Spirit in the WORD OF GOD.

But I don't test the bishops by my self the Holy Spirit in me does these tests!

The Bishops are found wanting against the SPIRIT and the word? Turm my back on that herecy.

Paul commended churches that solely through hearing the word became solid and TRUE Christian churches even though NO APOSTLE or emissary of an Apostle had visited them. If we need BISHOPS, he couldn't have done this!

Alfredthefifth
 

theefaith

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In Galatians 2
We see "Those Sent from JERUSALEM, (the high Christian church, with actual disciples taught by Christ) rebuked by Paul for adding Jewish customs to the Gospel.

Cephas, was apposed to his face for prior to the coming of certain men from James (then the high priest of THE CHURCH in Jerusalem) Cephas was in all things Christian. But when Jewish Christians came he became like a Jew. Adding Jewish burdens to Christianity.

If the Bishop had all authority and James by definition is a BISHOP! HOW does Paul get away with calling anyone out.

In matters of discipline any can correct his bother, but it is Peter in the counsel that decided this matter

@theefaith

Paul also writes

You came to faith in God by the HOLY SPIRIT through the word of God. This gives you, the convert the aling with The Holy Spirit power to discern between the will of God and the will of men.

So yes in The Word Of GOD, I find I have to question the Bishops, CALL out the bishops and leave the Bishops when they fail BEING TESTED by THE Spirit in the WORD OF GOD.

But I don't test the bishops by my self the Holy Spirit in me does these tests!

The Bishops are found wanting against the SPIRIT and the word? Turm my back on that herecy.

Paul commended churches that solely through hearing the word became solid and TRUE Christian churches even though NO APOSTLE or emissary of an Apostle had visited them. If we need BISHOPS, he couldn't have done this!

Alfredthefifth

never happened christ sent the apostles with his authority same mission ministry power and authority as Christ Matt 28:19 Jn 20:21
 

theefaith

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Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church for the salvation of all men! (Jn 1:16-17) Christ is the truth! (Jn 14:6) Christ and his church are one!
(Acts 9;4 eph 5:32)
The church is the pillar of truth
(1 Tim 3:15) that must teach all men (Matt 28:19) without error guided by the Holy Spirit
(Jn 16:13) Thru the grace of God in the sanctification of souls applied in the seven sacraments!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42
1 Tim 3:15

Fundamentalism drives a wedge between Christ and his church, separates Christ from His kingdom, and the authority of Christ from the new covenant!

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema

Extends to the truth and the church

Cos Christ is the truth and His church teaches the truth without error! Jn 14:6 matt 28:19 matt 18:17 1 Tim 3:15 Jn 29:21-23 Jn 16:13

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32

Authority of the Apostles!

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20
 

Alfredthefifth

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theefaith's,
bot attitude made me do it.
I searched catholic sexual abuse.
5100 cases of priests sexual abuse.
1700 still active under limited or no supervision to prevent more abuses.
500 maybe more that the church doesn't carry any record of disciplinary action for.

They get Excommunicated?
5 priests were Excommunicated for religious activities outside the church, but not sexual abuse.

But it gets richer.
132 BISHOPS indicted on sexual abuse,
42 for using their office to force sex on those over 18 years of age.
90 for sexually abusing minors

Bishops don't err? Yeah right.

But

Cardinal T. M. indicted on sexual abuses, his management of of sexual abuse allegations was solely to protect the image of the church. This protecting of church allowed incredible abuses to proliferate.

I thank God for the nuns that taught me in grade school!


The union Christ and His holy church or the unity of the holy church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles is such that it cannot be harmed by the sins of men!

Automatic excommunication is incured upon the exercise of the intellect and will to teach error or Hersey or to commit grave sin! Men are sinners, with a sin nature and free will, but we should choose that which is good and holy! Rom 6:13

So the bride is spotless and without blemish!

The members of Christ in communion with God and each other are in a state of sanctifying grace!

We deplore the sins and outrages of abuse, most of which is done by homo’s on young boys, in any group especially those calling themselves Christian, the communists began infiltration in the seminary’s in the 30’s and the modernist’s and homo’s in the 60’s and 70’s

This is a symptom of error and Hersey
Modernism or theological liberalism, of the modern apostasy and nowhere does the true church teach anyone to do these things, nor do the Protestant sects which have the same issues! And we don’t blame the Protestant sects or leaders!

Philippians 4:8
Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

I qouted the post because I know BOT denial is coming.

1 cardinal
132 Bishops
OF the infallible GOD ordered order that, were not infallible? Only happened in earthly things? Right.
5100 priests put only 5 recorded Excommunications, but only for religious activities outside the church.

This from the infallible council of Bishops that we cannot question no matter how un Godly their Spiritual direction is!

I have only begun to dig.
Theefaith of the robot like responses,
Made me do it

Alfredthefifth
 
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Philip James

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Paul commended churches that solely through hearing the word became solid and TRUE Christian churches even though NO APOSTLE or emissary of an Apostle had visited them. If we need BISHOPS, he couldn't have done this!

Couldnt he?

I commend all my baptised brothers and sisters who recognize Jesus as their Lord and Saviour, and seek to do His will!

But shall I not invite them to the Feast? They've been taught by the traditions of men to fear us, and in doing so they wait for that which is NOW!

All are welcome to come to the wedding Feast of the Lamb of God!

The Spirit and the bride say, "Come." Let the hearer say, "Come." Let the one who thirsts come forward, and the one who wants it receive the gift of life-giving water.

Pax et Bonum
 

Alfredthefifth

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@Philip James

It was rhetorical question to theefaith

But that agains after hundreds if not thousands of one verse standards, @theefaith totally denied the book of Galatians as being true! I guess we have to take the Bible one verse at a time to build a true church!

I know he not only could he did. But theefaith is so insistent that these churchs not being under the BISHOPS are not true CHRISTIAN churches. So by theefaiths total standard of BISHOPS? He couldn't, Paul that is accept these churches as true faith!

Alfredthefifth
 
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Wrangler

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There is and has only ever been one true Church; the church which can only be entered through the narrow gate;
the Church that Jesus talked about – his bride. The biblical Church, which is made up only of those who are true Born Again believers from whatever church background, or none, worldwide, past, present and future. Those who through the revelation of the Holy Spirit have seen Jesus for who he is, recognised what he did, turned from their sin and accepted him into their hearts and lives as Lord and Saviour. Anybody who hasn’t taken these steps towards him and made that commitment is not part of the biblical meaning of Church. And in my experience many church-goers and even clergy fall outside these criteria.

None of the traditional denominations can lay claim to being the one true Church to do so is heretical.

Marvelous post! I nominate it as post of the year.