The doctrine of Christ?

[VictoryinJesus]

I am certainly not OSAS, but I also believe that even a person in that group who sincerely believes God and gives his all to God and trusts God and endures to the end... will be saved. Ultimately some differences like this may not matter as long as the heart is right with God all the way through.

They say that once you have truly repented it has to be. I say that when we have truly repented we have been given the power to make it so.

They say that what I believe is a works based salvation. What I say is that Jesus made it possible for us to do it and God has provided all the tools necessary to do it. Without Jesus it is impossible, but if we don't put everything we have into it using the tools He provided we may in for a greater fall than we expected.

We are in a testing period, a place of trials. Once we have 1) accepted Jesus 2) there is work to be done... by us all the way to the end of our course [our allotted time in this world of fleshly weaknesses and temptations]. See the story of Lazarus:

"And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, 1) Lazarus, come forth.
And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, 2) Loose him, and let him go." John 11:43-44



Amen!




"But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth." Acts 1:7

That power is the power of God in us, the Holy Ghost in us! But the Holy Ghost is limited by our will if so wish it. The Holy Ghost is working on us to perfect us as a Living new man, to make us like Jesus, so as to be a perfectly fitting part of the Body of Christ. But... to complete that job the Holy Ghost needs the proper materials... which are the flesh and blood of Jesus for other wise we are simply quenching the Holy Spirit of God in us:

"Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you." John 6:53

Stop and consider what the flesh and blood of Jesus really are. Not a little wafer and a bit of wine. That is a shadow of reality. We don't eat and drink the shadow of a beef cow to fill our bellies and keep our carnal bodies alive. The types and shadows are what they had in the OT and even in the new, but the real thing is available. People are partaking often without understanding.

At the moment I’m leaning more toward it is about doing His will First. Salvation may be the toughest topic, for me anyways, not even sure where I fit. Do lean heavily toward Paul’s not as he had already obtained but reached forward... so debating the loss of what is not yet obtained seems pointless. at the same time I’m reminded of when the disciples asked Him to increase their faith. And He told them that after they had done all He had commanded, to say they are unprofitable servants. You mentioned here or in another thread about the joy ahead...and the cost for that joy; there is profit in doing as He commands and serving the Lord with all your heart, yeah. 1 Samuel 12:20-22 And Samuel said unto the people, Fear not: ye have done all this wickedness: yet turn not aside from following the Lord, but serve the Lord with all your heart; [21] And turn ye not aside: for then should ye go after vain things, which cannot profit nor deliver; for they are vain. [22] For the Lord will not forsake his people for his great name's sake: because it hath pleased the Lord to make you his people.

Job 21:14-15 Therefore they say unto God, Depart from us; for we desire not the knowledge of thy ways. [15] What is the Almighty, that we should serve him? and what profit should we have, if we pray unto him?

Hebrews 6:9-11 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak. [10] For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister. [11] And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

 

[amadeus]

At the moment I’m leaning more toward it is about doing His will First.

If you are able to do His will First, you already are where you need to be. Staying there, in His will that is, may not be so easy... because no matter some people may say, the old man is not completely dead yet if you are still ever tempted to sin. What I believe happens to a lot of people who really have encountered God is they become weary in well doing. This comes back to how much we are putting into it. It also touches on seemingly Not being able to feel God.

It really is complicated, but it really is simple.

Salvation may be the toughest topic, for me anyways, not even sure where I fit.

When you dig in trying to spell it all out it certainly may be tough, but then go these words of Jesus:

"Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light" Matt 11:28-30

We, all of us, get involved and forget to lean very heavily on Him. No other way works.

Do lean heavily toward Paul’s not as he had already obtained but reached forward... so debating the loss of what is not yet obtained seems pointless. at the same time I’m reminded of when the disciples asked Him to increase their faith. And He told them that after they had done all He had commanded, to say they are unprofitable servants. You mentioned here or in another thread about the joy ahead...and the cost for that joy; there is profit in doing as He commands and serving the Lord with all your heart, yeah. 1 Samuel 12:20-22 And Samuel said unto the people, Fear not: ye have done all this wickedness: yet turn not aside from following the Lord, but serve the Lord with all your heart; [21] And turn ye not aside: for then should ye go after vain things, which cannot profit nor deliver; for they are vain. [22] For the Lord will not forsake his people for his great name's sake: because it hath pleased the Lord to make you his people.

Job 21:14-15 Therefore they say unto God, Depart from us; for we desire not the knowledge of thy ways. [15] What is the Almighty, that we should serve him? and what profit should we have, if we pray unto him?

Hebrews 6:9-11 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak. [10] For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister. [11] And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

This work done by us which is unprofitable is that done for our own selfish motives: work to be right, work to understand Him through our scriptural studies, work, work, work!

It all comes back to this seeking first the first things. Going after these other things which may be good things and many of them even recommended to us in the scriptures can also be put into first place with us and get us into trouble with Him. Remember the verses:

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof." Matt 6:33-34

So then I, and you, and all of those other guys, get so deeply involved in trying to find out what day of the week Jesus died, or who the Shulamite woman represents, or the difference being sprinkled and immersed; ...and we forget to not forget what must always be first!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

"Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light" Matt 11:28-30

“take on my yoke, and learn of Me” ... “ My burden is light.” There is much there though which (imo) goes hand in hand with the doctrine of Christ and His warning of the doctrines of men where they speak of themselves seeking their own glory and not His (the Fathers’). Consider Saul/Paul ...all that which he counted dung and loss to win Christ. Saul had a burden yeah? Who was carrying that burden? Then there is Paul and if I’m being honest with what (imo) the word reveals ...it was really poured out on Paul.

Who has more burden the persecutor, or the persecuted? Acts 22:7-8 And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? [8] And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest.

(Imo)It would be easy to say Paul had far more of a substantial burden then Saul in being no longer the persecutor but the persecuted. Yet God with Paul carried that burden. (Imo) God put more on Paul then Saul ever carried to reveal WHO IN THEM could carry twice the persecutor can. 2 Corinthians 11:23-28 Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft. [24] Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one. [25] Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep; [26] In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; [27] In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness. [28] Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.

The persecuted burden is light while the persecutors is heavy ...because God carries (shoulders)the burden of the persecuted to reveal His strength in weakness.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Been studying “the doctrine of Christ” and the word “if”. Countless times that “if” is debated in “if you abide” “if you continue” “if you endure” “if you keep the sayings of this book” ...the problem with the “if” is there is a separation of whatsoever is born of God which the word says endures, fails not, but overcomes the world, even your faith. That which is born of God remains. “if” is whispered and it is manifested which side of that if one is of...flesh or Spirit. Flesh rears up and takes that “if” as it is something man does to maintain the “if”. Spirit asserts and proves that “if“ is something God does and nowhere does God say what He performs doesn’t abide. What does that have to do with the doctrine of Christ? A lot actually in who do you glorify ...God...or man? Who do you speak of? God or men? The endless debates and ugliness boiling down to that “if” and manifesting what is false and the doctrines of men seeking after the glory of men / against the doctrine of God which seeks after the glory of the One who sent them.

Luke 4:2-3 Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered. [3] And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.
^ the chief cornerstone is the Bread of Life. every temptation was toward the flesh to literally do as the temptation chided.So also the outward decreases (That which perishes)as the inward hidden man of the heart (that which is good and remains)increases. One endures. one doesn’t but decreases so, that which remains is manifest it is wrought of God.

2 John 1:9-11 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. [10] If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: [11] For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

The doctrine of Christ: If men speak of themselves ...or if man speaks of God.
John 7:15-18 And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned? [16] Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. [17] If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. [18] He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

He that seeks his glory that sent him...no unrighteousness is in him. As Jesus CHrist said ”He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory” Luke 23:34-35 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots. [35] And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.

Acts 7:59-60 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. [60] And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

Who would it have glorified if Stephen cried aloud “I forgive them and I lay not this sin to their charge.”

Zephaniah 3:9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the Lord, to serve him with one consent.

Romans 15:6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. (Philippians 3:3)

One consent...with one mind (the mind of Christ) and with one mouth they glorify God. As even the Son, Christ Jesus who spoke not of himself but “Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.” Revelation 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

endless debates that detract and take away from: worship God. Even now they will come and proclaim the “if” is dependent upon men. instead the: If you endure ...manifesting whose house you are of. Romans 8:9-12 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. [10] And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. [11] But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. [12] Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

Worship God?
why the endless debates over what man can do?

Good post! I found it very interesting and made me consider all you presented....final analysis is that it is spot on and something I agree with. Thanks for posting!

 

[amadeus]

The persecuted burden is light while the persecutors is heavy ...because God carries (shoulders)the burden of the persecuted to reveal His strength in weakness.

Amen!