The Dumbing Down of Christianity

[Ezra]

to comment on your vertical status? (as per post # 13)

---------->hillbilly --country through and through i live in ozarks of mo home of the current river

Doniphan, MO Profile: Facts & Data sometime another i will share a video of my home town a big pop around 350 lol

 

[Willie T]

"6'5" here." I don't suppose you have an extra step ladder hanging around then, huh?

Step ladder? What's that?

 

[Nancy]

It's kind of a plug for one of his books. In all seriousness, we are very blessed to have this man find us, he will be a fantastic addition to the forum.

BTW, maybe not as good a beard, but 6'5" here.

...And, yes, I sense a good Spirit with Ezra. I'm liking his hunger for the Truth of God. That is ALL I ever wanted was the Truth...and I found Him in Christ but, know not nearly enough of His mysteries and His depth! So, I am looking forward to reading Ezra's posts.

 

[Nancy]

Step ladder? What's that?

 

[Willie T]

Well, the gym call is early tomorrow, so I'm off to bed.

 

[Nancy]

---------->hillbilly --country through and through i live in ozarks of mo home of the current river

Doniphan, MO Profile: Facts & Data sometime another i will share a video of my home town a big pop around 350 lol

And, I bet everybody knows each other in your home town too! I do love the country!

 

[Nancy]

Well, the gym call is early tomorrow, so I'm off to bed.

Nite!

 

[mjrhealth]

Nite!

Like to meet this Gym guy, he is very popular here in Australia. Must be rich....

 

[FHII]

@Nancy... That's the first reference to crossfit I've seen here! Not sure who here knows what it is except maybe WillieT!

@Ezra... I agree! My Church is big on emotion, singing and dancing, but the main course is the teaching. Matt 11:29 says take my yoke upon you and learn of me...

And I am 5'8"

 

[friend of]

I'm reading "Counsels to Christians: practical insights for new believers"

By George Muller

But I do want to check out that one you mentioned by John Piper

 

[Willie T]

@Nancy... That's the first reference to crossfit I've seen here! Not sure who here knows what it is except maybe WillieT!

@Ezra... I agree! My Church is big on emotion, singing and dancing, but the main course is the teaching. Matt 11:29 says take my yoke upon you and learn of me...

And I am 5'8"

We have 12 Crossfits in the Tampa Bay area. But, I admit that I still go to the "Y".

 

[Ezra]

Well, the gym call is early tomorrow, so I'm off to bed.

i need get back in the gym my self

 

[Nancy]

Like to meet this Gym guy, he is very popular here in Australia. Must be rich....

Lol...he's a pretty tall order

 

[Nancy]

@Nancy... That's the first reference to crossfit I've seen here! Not sure who here knows what it is except maybe WillieT!

@Ezra... I agree! My Church is big on emotion, singing and dancing, but the main course is the teaching. Matt 11:29 says take my yoke upon you and learn of me...

And I am 5'8"

If I did not know what "cross-trainers" (footwear ?) were, I would not have known

 

[Ezra]

Hi Ezra and Welcome,

Christians often overlook this Scripture (1 Tim 2:3,4):
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

But this truth has already been stated by Christ before His ascension (Mt 28:20)
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

So we see that the knowledge of God's truth is the only thing that matters to God, and included in that truth are all the things commanded by Christ.

i agree but Christianity is not as strong in numbers of those truly saved as it use to be. i dont hold the answers but we the body need to draw nigh close to God.. i leave with this scripture Ecclesiastes 7:29 This only have I found: God created mankind upright, but they have gone in search of many schemes." niv kjv -Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions. i fear the trinkets of the world is attracting over church attendance.. one thing for sure there will always be a remnant

 

[Episkopos]

i posted this article with a link in a another forum they removed it for review .i asked how long it took got the boot . so i share this as i do agree with it.if it is in the wrong section feel free to move it .if gosh i hope not but if admin dont want it please p.m with a reason .not hard get along with ask willie t

The other day I was (surprise, surprise) in a coffee shop in the mountains, seated near the counter. A guy in his early 20s walked in wearing a TOOL shirt and a long ponytail. I could overhear his conversation as he approached the barista and they began chatting. Somehow it came up that she attends a Christian university and he clearly didn’t approve.

“Do they incorporate religion into all the classes there?” he asked. “Even the science classes? How does that work?”



She valiantly began explaining how they pray before every class and teach from a Christian worldview, but it soon became evident that she was being crushed in this conversation. He was well schooled in the writings of Dawkins, Hitchens and Nye and began doling out the punishment.

I use the word punishment because this poor barista has herself been punished by a church system which, for the past 200 years, has begun discarding intelligence within the church in favor of emotion, conversion experiences and passion. Ask most American Christians today any question deeper than “Does God love everyone?” and you’re bound to get some sort of response suggesting that that sort of discourse should be reserved for theological universities.

The other day a friend of mine said that he sees no merit in understanding Calvinism or Arminianism because he just wants to love God and love people. And it seems that the ball stops there for most Christians today. No need to know any more than that.



I would go so far as to say that there is even a fear in evangelical Christianity of knowledge. In my experience, this fear comes from one of two sources: People are scared that if they come to know too much, they’ll be like the Pharisees and will just become haughty and judgmental to others, thus weakening their love for God; or they’re afraid that they’ll learn too much and go off the deep end of liberalism and swim in the risky waters of universalism and other heresies.

We have replaced rich, robust theology in the church with emotional music and constant reminders that “God is love and loves you and He’s your personal Savior and loves your soul…” These words are great at bringing outsiders through the doors (because they’re true by and large) but poor at growing believers into mature witnesses with rich understanding of the deep things of God.

I have found the opposite to be very true. I have found that the more I learn about God, His Word and theology that describes Him, the more I can love and worship Him, because now there is that much more to adore and be amazed by. If my ability to worship God is a fire, learning more about Him only adds more wood to the blaze. After all, if you really loved God, wouldn’t you want to learn as much about him as possible?


Our logic is pretty backward here.

Quite honestly, I’m exhausted by Christians who don’t want to learn more. It’s one thing to not know much about our faith, but another to have no desire to grow.

I’m saddened that atheists are so passionate about what they believe that they will read stacks of books in order to define their beliefs, while we are happy to float along the surface with a (no offense) ‘Hillsong-deep theology’ and call it good. And we wonder why people are leaving the church in droves! A church that offers only emotional, squishy feel-good theology is going to lose the long-term wrestling match to a well-read and convincing atheist nearly every time.



Puritan Cotton Mather wrote, “Ignorance is the Mother not of Devotion but of HERESY” (caps lock his).

The mushy-gushy can only last so long.

Just as a marriage cannot be sustained by the tumble of infatuation, a life of faith cannot be sustained by passionate emotion. Yes, it may be a wonderful (and necessary) entryway, but without depth of knowledge and understanding, it will be “blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming” (Ephesians 4:14).

One of my theology professors is so passionate about this issue that he has brought up the same metaphor at least three times this semester. It goes something like this:

“Why do people say they want to ‘know God, but not know about Him? That is absolutely ludicrous!

Imagine if I told you ‘I love my wife, but I don’t know anything about her.’

You could ask me where she was born and I would shrug.

What type of music or food does she like?

I don’t know.

What color are her eyes?

No idea. But I love her.

See how insane that sounds? The more you come to know about someone, the more you are able to love them.”
part 2
Yet we have no problem floating on the surface of our knowledge of God. And then we wonder why we have such trouble witnessing to others or describing what we believe, or why we believe it, to others.

J.P. Moreland, in his book Love the Lord Your God With All Your Mind, demonstrates how the Second Great Awakening led to the beginning of emotional preaching and impassioned calls to a quick conversion experience, as opposed to a period of contemplation, learning and discovery of the Christian faith and doctrines. We live in the fallout of that style of thinking. Moreland writes, “The intellectually shallow, theologically illiterate form of Christianity…came to be part of the populist Christian religion that emerged.”



I was fascinated to learn that the church was once the place where believers came to learn deep theology and robust doctrine, but now that seems to be reserved only for biblical universities. Nowadays anyone can start a church, and as long as it’s engaging and entertaining enough, people will show up. Nevermind if it’s true or not. (Case in point: The pastor of the largest church in America doesn’t even have a bachelor’s degree, much less a seminary degree and look where that leads…) This all helps me realize why people are seeing less and less need for the church. After the initial emotion has worn off, what does it really have to offer?

It should not only be pastors, authors and theologians who study what they believe, but all believers. Jesus Himself stated that the greatest commandment is to love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, strength and MIND (Luke 10:27), yet we tend to overlook this last one and focus on the heart and soul. (Crossfitters throw ‘strength’ in the mix too, I guess.)

God paints an intense fate for those who neglect to grow in their understanding in Hosea 4:6 when he writes, “My people are destroyed for their lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I also will reject you.”



So let’s not get destroyed and rejected, eh?

It’s not too late for Christians to learn in their understanding of the holy. It’s not too late to learn the meaning and value of our creeds, doctrines and systems. There is merit in learning and understanding the deeper parts of our faith and I say we start sooner than later.

If you’re reading this and thinking, Gee, I would love to come to a deeper understanding of God but don’t know where to start, I’ll give a few great starting points here, but never hesitate to email me with more questions or comments! I’d love to talk more about these things. Additionally, if you’re reading this and thinking, Gee, I don’t really learn that much about the Bible or God at my church, it just kind of hypes me up, it may be time to change that. Begin by talking to your pastor about it before going church shopping!


Here are some books that are very easy to read and introduce us to cursory facets of the Christian faith:

Delighting in The Trinity: An Introduction to the Christian Faith by Michael Reeves

Desiring God: Meditations of a Christian Hedonist by John Piper



Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis

The New Lonely by me

(The last one isn’t theological, it’s just a really, really good book. ;})

Enjoy!

Welcome Ezra!

I would invite you to look at a few authors who are real experts in their various fields of expertise and experience. What is so interesting about them is that they are just as dialectical as the bible is in that they deny the existence of the other.....yet as you put them together you get the bigger picture (since men seem unable to get the whole message of the bible).

The 2 authors are Fenelon (a French Bishop) from the 18th century....an advocate of the inner life and perfect love by abiding in the Spirit. And the other is Jacques Ellul (a French thinker and theologian who died a few decades ago) who eschews a personal bliss with God for a revolution of faith that changes the world by the Spirit. He also exposes the lies that we Westerners too easily fall into.

Suggested books by Ellul are "the presence of the kingdom"...and "the subversion of Christianity"

Only read these books if you want to be fully challenged in your way of thinking...

 

[Windmillcharge]

As a minister it is up to you to raise the intellectual content of your sermons.
To meet the intellectual and challenges that men require.
To stress that All Christians are required to be able to give a reason for their belief.

 

[Nancy]

lol------------- 5 ft-11 inches

Well, that's a "tall order" as well. And, you probably do not have any extra step ladders around either, do you? Lol. I am praying that your sermon will hit deeply with your congregants. Stoke that fire!!

 

[Ezra]

Welcome Ezra!

I would invite you to look at a few authors who are real experts in their various fields of expertise and experience. What is so interesting about them is that they are just as dialectical as the bible is in that they deny the existence of the other.....yet as you put them together you get the bigger picture (since men seem unable to get the whole message of the bible).

The 2 authors are Fenelon (a French Bishop) from the 18th century....an advocate of the inner life and perfect love by abiding in the Spirit. And the other is Jacques Ellul (a French thinker and theologian who died a few decades ago) who eschews a personal bliss with God for a revolution of faith that changes the world by the Spirit. He also exposes the lies that we Westerners too easily fall into.

Suggested books by Ellul are "the presence of the kingdom"...and "the subversion of Christianity"

Only read these books if you want to be fully challenged in your way of thinking...

these books are no doubt good and the authors very inspired . if i read my Bible it should challenge me to the fullest . i mean no disrespect for the authors i have all kinds books i have several max lacado "spelling " books he is a great author . i need to study the book. in saying that i am open to all points of view provided it is backed by the Bible .. i keep trying figure out the lexicon and stand on my head go cross eyed lol

 

[Ezra]

As a minister it is up to you to raise the intellectual content of your sermons.
To meet the intellectual and challenges that men require.
To stress that All Christians are required to be able to give a reason for their belief.

no disagreement with that .the title of the message sunday Lord willing almost is not Good enough . sunday mornings is full of almost saved or think they are saved hope they are save might be saved. but the Bible says that we may know we have eternal life . if ya dont know your not