The End of the Mosaic Age

[face2face]

Greetings!

Matthew 24:1 Now as Jesus was going out of the temple courts and walking away, his disciples came to show him the temple buildings. 2 And he said to them, “Do you see all these things? I tell you the truth, not one stone will be left on another. All will be torn down!”



After some lengthy and unprofitable discussions with Truth7t7, I figure I would use that experience to benefit others in the forum.

Context is everything, so when we are studying Scripture we must always look for the story!

This prophecy opens up with Jesus having denounced their hypocrisy in Matthew 23, he leaves the temple for the last time.

You will notice the on the Lords words in Matt 23:38 “your house”

"Look, your house is left to you desolate!" God has left it long ago, just needed the Son of God to inform them what comes next!

The Temple Buildings must have been an impressive sight in Christ's day. Their admiration of its material splendour was straight after the widows’ two mites!!! (You can see the issue - connection?!)

Mark 12:41-44

41 And he sat down opposite the treasury and watched the people putting money into the offering box. Many rich people put in large sums. 42 And a poor widow came and put in two small copper coins, which make a penny. 43 And he called his disciples to him and said to them, “Truly, I say to you, this poor widow has put in more than all those who are contributing to the offering box. 44 For they all contributed out of their abundance, but she out of her poverty has put in everything she had, all she had to live on.”

The disciples looking at the permanent (huge) structure!! must have thought "what did he mean “left desolate?”

Luke 21:5

And while some were speaking of the temple, how it was adorned with noble (goodly) stones and offerings (gifts), he said,

“Goodly stones and gifts” Grk. for “gift” is “anthema”!!

The Temple was devoted for the purpose of receiving money! And boy did they exploit its beautiful qualities.

We will work though the whole of Matthew 24.

Look forward to chatting with you all.

 

[face2face]

Matthew 24:1 Now as Jesus was going out of the temple courts and walking away, his disciples came to show him the temple buildings. 2 And he said to them, “Do you see all these things? I tell you the truth, not one stone will be left on another. All will be torn down!”

Jesus now rivets their attention upon “these things”

“Not one stone upon another” it's true, as history reveals that Titus had no intention of destroying the Temple, or the City, that he ordered the temple to be preserved, however, its not in man to direct his steps and God had other plans. The gold melted and ran into the crevices of the stones. If you have ever studied the beginning of its distruction it was a terrible time for those who did not heed the Lords warnings to flee the city.

There will be time to consider the OT prophecies but for now I am simply focusing in on the primary audience and the direct teaching concerning the Temple which is in view.

F2F

 

[ewq1938]

Matthew 24:1 Now as Jesus was going out of the temple courts and walking away, his disciples came to show him the temple buildings. 2 And he said to them, “Do you see all these things? I tell you the truth, not one stone will be left on another. All will be torn down!”

Jesus now rivets their attention upon “these things”

“Not one stone upon another” it's true, as history reveals that Titus had no intention of destroying the Temple, or the City, that he ordered the temple to be preserved, however, its not in man to direct his steps and God had other plans. The gold melted and ran into the crevices of the stones. If you have ever studied the beginning of its distruction it was a terrible time for those who did not heed the Lords warnings to flee the city.

There will be time to consider the OT prophecies but for now I am simply focusing in on the primary audience and the direct teaching concerning the Temple which is in view.

F2F

When speaking of the temple, he was not on the mount. This was not part of the OD and no surprise that the temple isn't mentioned one time in the OD. What he is saying about the temple and the stones is a separate teaching.

In the OD he specifically speaks of things that will happen before his second coming. He will list warning signs, then the actual events of the great trib, then his second coming and he will declare that one generation will witness all of those events. Not some of them, but all of them. Generation there is about living people who see the warnings signs and everything after, not a span of time like 40 or 60 years etc. All the events take place in a much shorter span of time.

 

[face2face]

When speaking of the temple, he was not on the mount.

Correct.

This was not part of the OD and no surprise that the temple isn't mentioned one time in the OD. What he is saying about the temple and the stones is a separate teaching.

We will cover this in due course!

In the OD he specifically speaks of things that will happen before his second coming.

We will look at this in more detail, I wont go into it now as it's best to follow the context as its revealed.

He will list warning signs, then the actual events of the great trib, then his second coming and he will declare that one generation will witness all of those events. Not some of them, but all of them. Generation there is about living people who see the warnings signs and everything after, not a span of time like 40 or 60 years etc. All the events take place in a much shorter span of time.

Again, these are all assumptions on your part but I accept you are not alone! If you follow the thread we will get there eventually.

Thanks for the reply
F2F

 

[face2face]

Matthew 24:3 As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, (previous discourse) and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?

So the Lord and the disciples are sitting on the Mount of Olives looking over a spectacular view of the city in the setting sun - snowy marble topped by golden spikes on the roof of the Holy Place.

Take perticualar notice of the word "privately!"

If we look at Mark 13:3

3 And as he sat on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple (@ewq1938 ;) ), Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately,

So we have the Lord Jesus Christ sitting opposite the temple just having rebuke the religous authourities for their hypocrisy and having given his judgements of the temple being destroyed.

The two sets of brothers come to Jesus with a very sensitive question, as this became a chief charge against the Lord later.

Matthew 26:61 - and said, “This man said, ‘I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to rebuild it in three days
Acts 6:13-14 for we have heard him say that this Jesus of Nazareth will destroy this place and will change the customs that Moses delivered to us.”

So the question of the Disciples relates to this:

1. Distruction of the Temple
2. The end of the age (Mosiac age)

The connection between the discourse at the Temple and that on the Mount of Olives is one and the same. The private enquiry of the 4 related to what the Lord had been teaching previously.

The Word of God is very carefully written so we must be careful not to force the false teaching of futurist interprations on the Word.

(Just a note for those who respond; please talk to the content of the post you are contending with rather that running away to unrelated Scripture)

Thanks
F2F

 

[face2face]

This last post is where its at:

@Truth7t7
@Timtofly
@ewq1938

The Olivet Prophecy directly relates to the destruction of the Temple and the End of the Mosaic age. Failure to understand post #5 will result in all types of futurist fallacies.

Truth7 has fallen away having nothing in the tool box to show futurist interpratation
Timtofly has acknowledged AD70 as the destruction of the Temple and the End of the Mosaic age
EWQ has made the claim that the word "temple" is not in the Olivet Prophecy - yet to receive acknowledgement of their error.

Will 7 respond with her "Big Smiles", or will they copy and paste their standard FFF clause?

....I just love the Word of God!

 

[Marty fox]

I too have a verse by verse study on Matthew chapter 24 showing that it was fulfilled in 70AD.

It’s interesting that Matthew, Luke and Mark all record a version of the Olivit Discourse but neither of them were present in the private conversation with Jesus. It is also interesting that John didn’t write a version of the Olivit Discourse maybe revelation is his version.

 

[Truth7t7]

Will 7 respond with her "Big Smiles"

her?

 

[face2face]

her?

In an age of gender equality and personal pronouns you should not be offended!

Are you going to gird up your loins and tackle #5

 

[Truth7t7]

In an age of gender equality and personal pronouns you should not be offended!

Are you going to gird up your loins and tackle #5

I request that you address me with They, Them, Their or It

I feel like a cat today, tomorrow I'm going to be a goldfish

 

[face2face]

I request that you address me with They, Them, Their or It

I feel like a cat today, tomorrow I'm going to be a goldfish

IT is a bit scary!

 

[ewq1938]

The connection between the discourse at the Temple and that on the Mount of Olives is one and the same. The private enquiry of the 4 related to what the Lord had been teaching previously.

You have only made a possible conection between the temple discourse and some later questions (roughly an hours walk from temple to the mount), not the OD that came just after the questions. Also, we do not know what may have been discussed during that walk. Either way, Jesus will give a discourse on events that take place just prior to his return. Not a word will have anything to do with Ad70.

The Word of God is very carefully written so we must be careful not to force the false teaching of futurist interprations on the Word.

Even Preterists know what Jesus taught on the mount was futurism lol, they just think it was about AD70, which was FUTURE to that discourse. The truth is it was about much more distant future events than Preterists realize. So, it is hypocrisy to speak against futurism when even Preterists have to admit Christ spoke of future events in the OD.

 

[ewq1938]

EWQ has made the claim that the word "temple" is not in the Olivet Prophecy - yet to receive acknowledgement of their error.

It isn't error. It is true, and YOU haven't yet acknowledged your error yet. Perhaps you don't know what the OD is? It is what Chrisrt spoke while sitting on the mount of Olives, not just anything appearing in the same chapter. (the chapters don't even exist in the manuscripts BTW)

 

[face2face]

It isn't error. It is true, and YOU haven't yet acknowledged your error yet. Perhaps you don't know what the OD is? It is what Chrisrt spoke while sitting on the mount of Olives, not just anything appearing in the same chapter. (the chapters don't even exist in the manuscripts BTW)

Good thing about these posts is its all on record...one only needs to go back a read what you wrote and then see the proof that refutes it. no brainer! Post #5 outlines the connection between the disciples privately asked question and relates to "these things" AND you have the reference to the Temple in Marks Gospel. But hey if you want to be dishonest about its, not skin of my nose...truth matters to me, and the correct interpratation is critical in understanding the Will of God. If you dont want either, so be it!
F2F

 

[face2face]

You have only made a possible conection between the temple discourse and some later questions (roughly an hours walk from temple to the mount), not the OD that came just after the questions.

Just read that again with a clear head! Basically what you are saying is the OD relates to the questions asked - I mean use some common sense...Jesus is not going to start speaking about things 2000+years into the future when his disciples want to know what will happen to the temple and this age (Mosaic)...this is not rocket science!

Why do you so tightly hold to this futurist fallacy? I don’t get it. I’ve never understood why Christians want to force every prophecy into such a short time span- its weird and not the correct way to interpret the Bible.

I know this sound harsh, but it appears on the surface this Futurist approach is for Christians who only want fast-food! Too lazy to cook a nutritious meal! Why don’t you spend some quality time with a verse a day and let these things sink down into your conscience...pray first and seek understanding. God is all too willing to provide.
F2F

 

[APAK]

Just read that again with a clear head! Basically what you are saying is the OD relates to the questions asked - I mean use some common sense...Jesus is not going to start speaking about things 2000+years into the future when his disciples want to know what will happen to the temple and this age (Mosaic)...this is not rocket science!

Why do you so tightly hold to this futurist fallacy? I don’t get if. I’ve never understood why Christians want to force every prophecy into such a short time span- its weird and not the correct way to interpret the Bible.

I know this sound harsh, but it appears on the surface this Futurist approach is for Christians who only want fast-food! Too lazy to cook a nutritious meal! Why don’t you spend some quality time with a verse a day and let these things sink down into your conscience...pray first and seek understanding. Gid is all too willing to provide.
F2F

Here, here, and all rise for the truth, the word of God!

That 'fast and easily made (cryptic and condensed spiritual) food if used for the main diet, will eventually kill you off prematurely, at least impair your body of the truth and mind to still believe in the truth. Need the natural foods that you can more easily enjoy and savor over time, time to digest it fully and wholesomely under the guidance of the Spirit of God.

I agree with this thread of yours thus far....and with your own writing and angle to it....I'm just waiting for more to either continue to support or to gently criticize with some discussion....all ears onboard here...

After first delving into Biblical prophecy more seriously in the 80s I quickly backed out of the fast-food they were serving me and selling in the public square for Christians, It does not make sense to squash the impacting events that affect us and Christ all in the future. And not just a generation or so into the future, it now has to be only 1000s of years into the future. Folks of this 1000s of years into the future theory have created a false and shaky foundation with all this, and mislead many serious and God-fearing Christians. And it really began on a noticeable scale in the 19th century, and has never let up since.

 

[ewq1938]

Just read that again with a clear head! Basically what you are saying is the OD relates to the questions asked - I mean use some common sense...Jesus is not going to start speaking about things 2000+years into the future when his disciples want to know what will happen to the temple and this age (Mosaic)...this is not rocket science!

You need to use common sense. They asked when these thing would happen and Jesus did not answer that. They asked about the signs of the end and he did address those things and the end of the world didn't happen in the first century did it? The second coming didn't happen either. Don't mention common sense then imply one of the greatest heresies known!

Why do you so tightly hold to this futurist fallacy?

Again you speak against futurism when you believe the events of the OD were FUTURE when Christ spoke it. Why hold so tightly to that logical fallacy??

I don’t get if. I’ve never understood why Christians want to force every prophecy into such a short time span- its weird and not the correct way to interpret the Bible.

Then why do you do it?? You literally are criticizing your own theological belief system. YOU are forcing the OD to take place in "a short time span", almost 2000 years ago when NONE of the OD has even happened yet!

I know this sound harsh, but it appears on the surface this Futurist approach is for Christians who only want fast-food! Too lazy to cook a nutritious meal!

Again you speak of your own beliefs.

Why don’t you spend some quality time with a verse a day and let these things sink down into your conscience...pray first and seek understanding. Gid is all too willing to provide.

Take your own advice and listen to your own criticisms of your beliefs. Literally, take your own medicine not wrongly direct them to others who understand the OD correctly. You are the wheel on the wagon making all the noise and is in need of oiling.

 

[face2face]

You need to use common sense. They asked when these thing would happen and Jesus did not answer that. They asked about the signs of the end and he did address those things and the end of the world didn't happen in the first century did it? The second coming didn't happen either. Don't mention common sense then imply one of the greatest heresies known!





Again you speak against futurism when you believe the events of the OD were FUTURE when Christ spoke it. Why hold so tightly to that logical fallacy??




Then why do you do it?? You literally are criticizing your own theological belief system. YOU are forcing the OD to take place in "a short time span", almost 2000 years ago when NONE of the OD has even happened yet!



Again you speak of your own beliefs.




Take your own advice and listen to your own criticisms of your beliefs. Literally, take your own medicine not wrongly direct them to others who understand the OD correctly. You are the wheel on the wagon making all the noise and is in need of oiling.

No substance here ewq! You can plead all you like the Scripture is 100% fool proof - a 8 year old Sunday school class could understand it.
What it proves to me is the degree of deception, which one must accept is illogical and confounding!
Also, you are yet to show any humility being shown to be wrong this usually follows with some form of admission.
The above is just poor form.
F2F

 

[face2face]

So, we left of with this private discussion between those in the Lord's inner circle. Clearly, they were deeply affected by the Lord's discourse on the Temple they wanted to clarify (as would we) when "these things" would come to pass.

Matthew 24:3 As he was sitting on the Mount of Olives, his disciples came to him privately and said, “Tell us, when will these things happen? And what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?

A few facts are required here.

Firstly, Jesus has not yet received the Revelation from His Father, so all of the future Historical Events contained therein are totally unknown to him. He had yet to ascended to Heaven to receive this information.

Also, the coming of the Lord does not necessitate a literal physical appearance as there are many ways in which he can come. In AD70 its was via the Roman Army styled in James 5:8 as the day of slaughter (which culminated in the end of an age!).

Also keep in mind the disciples are keen to understand the sign of his coming - what events and things will be happening in and around Jerusalem prior to this coming.

The "end of the age" ties this all up; to mean “Aion”....the “conclusion of the age’ Its uses of that era in Heb 9:26

Hebrews 9:26 for then he would have had to suffer again and again since the foundation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the consummation of the ages to put away sin by his sacrifice.

(As side note you will see the echoes of Daniels Prophecies however as previously stated we want to explore the NT story (context) before making the obvious connections.

Also, note Marks record

13:4 “Tell us, when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that all these things are about to take place (fulfilled)?”

So what are the signs of your coming and when will this Mosaic age... “Sunteleo” = “to end”, “complete”

At some point we need to consider the Biblical significance of the Mosaic age coming to an end, but for now, it's essential we understand the Oliver Prophecy has its foundation in Matthew 23's events, and a private conversation between the two sets of brothers, and the Lord.

Along the way I hope to look at the possibility of dual fulfillment's, which is a separate study of its own.

I really do hope the futurists in the forum come along for the journey!

F2F

 

[face2face]

Here, here, and all rise for the truth, the word of God!

That 'fast and easily made (cryptic and condensed spiritual) food if used for the main diet, will eventually kill you off prematurely, at least impair your body of the truth and mind to still believe in the truth. Need the natural foods that you can more easily enjoy and savor over time, time to digest it fully and wholesomely under the guidance of the Spirit of God.

I agree with this thread of yours thus far....and with your own writing and angle to it....I'm just waiting for more to either continue to support or to gently criticize with some discussion....all ears onboard here...

After first delving into Biblical prophecy more seriously in the 80s I quickly backed out of the fast-food they were serving me and selling in the public square for Christians, It does not make sense to squash the impacting events that affect us and Christ all in the future. And not just a generation or so into the future, it now has to be only 1000s of years into the future. Folks of this 1000s of years into the future theory have created a false and shaky foundation with all this, and mislead many serious and God-fearing Christians. And it really began on a noticeable scale in the 19th century, and has never let up since.

Thanks Apak, always value your contribution / insight.
Do you know the greatest irony about this study and the Futurist position is found in Matthew 24:4. It's crazy I know! how they cannot piece this very simple text together and heed the warning, which if you were the disciples would carry no meaning at all if its all 200 years, let alone 2000+ years away.
It's also revealing of what else they have wrong if these simple things are hidden form them.
F2F