The Eternal Security Heresy: A Comprehensive Refutation of OSAS
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It quite often changes the so called plain meaning of a verse because you are only getting part of the picture.
The first type, never understand so they are not saved. That's not the case for the others:
20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 22 The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful.
Having no roots isn't the same as never being saved. Why should we believe they could not have developed roots if they persevered?
It adds insight to the meaning of the verse; however, the verse in question can still be quoted all by its lonesome and have all the impact of the cut of a surgeon's scalpel (Hebrews 4:12).
Because they were located on rocky ground, where there is rock underneath so the roots cannot go down into the earth and take root.
In the parable of sower and the seed nothing gets saved, just some produce fruit, or a harvest while others do not.
The implication is simple, the sower is only interested in the harvest, it is why the seed was sown.
The further complication is the seed is Gods word, and the plants that grow produce more seeds.
So how can Gods word produce more of Gods word. The connection at this level is not obvious at all.
The plant that produces the seed dies and only the seed is kept at harvest, so if one is thinking of literal salvation because the seed produces a plant that grows is the key salvation issue, the plant dies, and is not saved.
I once thought the seed is each individual who is saved, ie salvation or fruitfulness is bringing others to Christ, ie we must all be evangelists.
I now think this parable is about objectives and fruitfulness. Jesus is interested in His words being replicated in our lives and others lives, so that new versions of His word come into being and are spread. It is this growth and harvest effect of preaching and sharing about Him, that creates the eternal harvest He is interested in. A failed believer is one where Gods word never takes root and produces change and literal new fruit of insight and truth in their hearts, which can be shared with others. In this view literally eternal life is only measured by the word taking root and producing affects in the believers life and words and actions. So by me saying Praise the Lord, Jesus is Lord, follow His teaching, is His word taking root in my life and my fruit or witness to this is this sharing.
So talking about the parable is about levels of who is saved or not misses the whole point, literally. It is all about what is the objective, the harvest, fruitfulness. No fruitfulness, no value or reality. It is not like this is a hard thing, to through repentance and new birth to start to love others.
Yet there are "believers" who claim this is too difficult to expect of those born into the Kingdom. My honest response is, they are not in the Kingdom at all. And on this thread, if love does not dwell in anyones heart, I encourage you, search it out and find Jesus. God bless you
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
No, not according to me. According to the Bible......
Matthew 25:41-46
41Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave Me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, I was naked and you did not clothe Me, I was sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’44And they too will reply, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’45Then the King will answer, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for Me.’
46And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Here too.......
Hebrews 6:8
8But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless, and its curse is imminent. In the end it will be burned.
What was the purpose of telling the parable if not to inform people they could choose what kind of soil they will be? Yes, it's metaphorical language, so you can draw all kinds of strange conclusions if you like by taking what is figurative too literally, but the point is that some fell away and it was on them, it was not something God caused them to do.
Then I guess it's blessed to kill babies by smashing their heads against rocks..Psalm 137:9...context it very important if you want to find the truth. You can not read verses in isolation and get there.
Understanding is the Key.
Faith is a Gift from God.
• Merely "Hearing" the Word of God-
...God gifts the man with a measure of Faith.
•"Believing" the Word of God-
...God gifts the man with increase of Faith.
A man Hearing;
A man Believing;
Can Freely Do ONE thing or Another thing:
* Keep his Faith...
* Discard his Faith...
Keep- and freely Choose to continue TO Hear, TO Believe, TO receive Increase in Gods Gift of Faith.
OR:
Discard- and Freely Choose to Discontinue Hearing, Believing, And Discontinue Receiving Gods Gift of Increase IN Faith...
That man; ^
Has Fallen FROM Receiving "his" Gift of Faith.
He has Fallen FROM Receiving "his" Gift of Salvation.
Gods Gifts of FAITH, of Salvation, (and other gifts)...ARE Gifts God Himself...
Prepared, Paid the Price, and OFFERED to Every man.
Gods Offered Gods Gifts "ARE Already Every man's Gifts."
A man who TAKES Measures of Gods Gift of Faith ...THEN Rejects Receiving More...Does NOT receive MORE...
He is Called, FALLEN, from Faith.
A man WHO Rejects Receiving "his Gift" of Salvation...
Is Called a man who HAS Lost His Gift of Salvation.
A man who is Appointed a Gift from God...or your Parents, or a car dealer, or employer...
If you do not reach out and TAKE the Gift Appointed FOR you...
You have lost "your gift".
Men don't FALL from Salvation.
Men LOSE their Salvation FOR Not Taking it.
Scripture gives Warnings "to NOT LOSE" "your salvation"
Scripture gives Warnings "you do not know the Day or Hour your body will die"...
Dead Body's Know nothing.
Your expiration Date of Receiving "your Gift of Salvation"... Expires when your Body Dies.
Thus the Urgency for Every man "to Take and Receive" His Gift of Salvation.
Do you suppose a Gift from your parents or a Friend they have paid for, Appointed to you, that you did not take ... is lost to you?
Glory to God,
Taken
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Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
All I know is you gotta have works to validate your faith as being genuine when Jesus comes back cause that's the metric he says he's going to use to judge us as being a believer or not. As long as you keep your eyes on that truth you don't have to mess things up with the question of whether or not a person can lose his or her salvation.
It may be an exhortation to the evangelist/pastor that the work of "breaking up the fallow ground" of people's hearts is just as important as sowing seeds.
I believe that in that very verse, the distinction is made that it is talking about those who are descendants of the Babylonians who did this to the children of Israel, so that such a thing would be divine retribution.
Happy is the one who seizes your infants
and dashes them against the rocks.
Doesn't sound too nice without context.
@Rudometkin Maybe if you got a Russian NT and read from John chapter 1, where the language is simple and clear in any case, you might be surprised how much of it you could follow with a little effort...
Like I said, context does add insight to the reality of the text.
Jesus gave the insight into that with the topical context of the passage...Jeremiah 4:3-4, Hosea 10:12.
The Eternal Security Heresy: A Comprehensive Refutation of OSAS
OP^
LOL-
Heresy-
A subjective term, meaning:
• belief or opinion contrary to orthodox religious belief.
• opinion profoundly at odds with what is generally accepted.
Orthodox-
• conforming to what is generally or traditionally accepted as right or true; established and approved.
Inanutshell-
Men establish what is approved of them by them-
And if you do not agree with "their" belief and opinion...
They can call you a Heretic. LOL
(It's equilivant to a saying They have authorized Themselves to call you an unbeliever of Their Doctrine, because you do not Believe Their Doctrine).
LOL - Juvenile
Refutation of OF Being Saved and Then Losing ones Salvation IS NO WHERE to be found in Scriptural Teaching.
The Complete Opposite IS found IN Scripture:
John 10:
[28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
1 John 5:
[13] These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Heb 13:
[5]... he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
FUNNY -
How People AGAINST "ONCE SAVED"....
Are COMPLETELY SILENT...
ON ...
their OWN Testimony of How Many times They have to BE Saved, How Many times they have BEEN Saved or How Many Times They have BEEN Unsaved.
Or HOW a Saved man, Forsakes Jesus, and "gives" back The Lords Gift of Salvation...
(Where is this Scriptural Teaching?)
Glory to God,
Taken
OP^
LOL-
Heresy-
A subjective term, meaning:
• belief or opinion contrary to orthodox religious belief.
• opinion profoundly at odds with what is generally accepted.
Orthodox-
• conforming to what is generally or traditionally accepted as right or true; established and approved.
Inanutshell-
Men establish what is approved of them by them-
And if you do not agree with "their" belief and opinion...
They can call you a Heretic. LOL
(It's equilivant to a saying They have authorized Themselves to call you an unbeliever of Their Doctrine, because you do not Believe Their Doctrine).
LOL - Juvenile
Refutation of OF Being Saved and Then Losing ones Salvation IS NO WHERE to be found in Scriptural Teaching.
The Complete Opposite IS found IN Scripture:
John 10:
[28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
1 John 5:
[13] These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Heb 13:
[5]... he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
FUNNY -
How People AGAINST "ONCE SAVED"....
Are COMPLETELY SILENT...
ON ...
their OWN Testimony of How Many times They have to BE Saved, How Many times they have BEEN Saved or How Many Times They have BEEN Unsaved.
Or HOW a Saved man, Forsakes Jesus, and "gives" back The Lords Gift of Salvation...
(Where is this Scriptural Teaching?)
Glory to God,
Taken
Last edited:
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
The parables in Matthew 13 are closely connected regarding the kingdom and Jesus explains that below
Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field.”
37 He answered, “The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.
40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Jesus' teachings show us what we need to be prepared to meet Him when he returns. The Bible does not teach us that we need to believe in once saved always saved or not once saved always saved. It teaches us to have a living faith full of righteous works of the Spirit that Jesus will use to judge us as his righteous people and who will enter into the kingdom of God. I see once saved always saved doctrines being used to give false assurance to church people who have nothing more than James' dead faith (faith without works). We have the focus in the wrong place. Determining if once saved always saved is true or not will not benefit anybody on the day of God's wrath. Having a life of righteous works produced by your faith in Christ will. That is what Jesus teaches. And Galatians 5:22-23 is what that righteous life looks like.
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
Good Fruit is a result of Good Roots. I Am the vine and you are the branches. Those in Him will produce good fruit. Fruit is a result or by product of salvation not a means to salvation. A good tree produces good fruit. Ye shall know them by their fruits declares Jesus. And the Results will be Galatians 5:22-23 and 1 Corinthians 13. Love displayed , love in action. When one is born again his/her life is transformed from the kingdom of darkness into His marvelous Light.
hope this helps !!!
According to Romans 4:5-6, Titus 3:5, Romans 11:5-6, and Ephesians 2:8-9, works will not be needed to validate my faith on my day of judgment, before the Father.
The Father sees my faith regardless of any works attached (see 1 Samuel 16:7).
Jesus will judge us on the basis of works; but our names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life on the basis of our faith alone.
If our faith is genuine in this life, it will produce works if given the opportunity.
But what of the deathbed conversion where a man calls on the name of the Lord and then passes into the next life one minute later?
Do they go to hell over the fact that they could do no works in the context of a saved life?
I don't think that they do (see Romans 10:13).
Most assuredly, if someone genuinely comes to faith in Jesus Christ, He is going to change their life.
But the things that they do because of this life change is not what saves them. It is an integral part of the salvation given to them. Salvation means a changed life; and so if I am saved I will have a changed life. The changed life does not save; it is the salvation that is given.
So yes, faith without works is dead.
It is also true that I cannot be regenerated and renewed by some good work that I do. If I give $5 to the poor, or even $5,000,000, that is not going to bring about regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost within my life. I cannot earn such a transformation; because God will owe no man any thing (Romans 4:4).
It will benefit people in their current spiritual battles.
The assurance of salvation acts as a helmet in the full armor of God (Ephesians 6:17, 1 Thessalonians 5:8).
But again, I do not contend for OSAS but for POTS (see 1 john 2:17, 1 John 3:6).
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