justbyfaith
Well-Known Member
Actually, the first type of soil mentioned never gets saved.The other soils are people that are saved and fall away from faith for various reasons.
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Actually, the first type of soil mentioned never gets saved.The other soils are people that are saved and fall away from faith for various reasons.
It quite often changes the so called plain meaning of a verse because you are only getting part of the picture.You can always look up the context if there is doubt...
But I believe that you will find that the context of any singular verse or passage never nullifies the plain meaning of that verse or passage....for the scripture does not contradict itself. Again, this is a first rule of hermeneutics.
The first type, never understand so they are not saved. That's not the case for the others:Actually, the first type of soil mentioned never gets saved.
It quite often changes the so called plain meaning of a verse because you are only getting part of the picture.
Why should we believe they could not have developed roots if they persevered?
Actually, the first type of soil mentioned never gets saved.
No, not according to me. According to the Bible......According to you;
Judgement for no works, means No Salvation.
What was the purpose of telling the parable if not to inform people they could choose what kind of soil they will be? Yes, it's metaphorical language, so you can draw all kinds of strange conclusions if you like by taking what is figurative too literally, but the point is that some fell away and it was on them, it was not something God caused them to do.Because they were located on rocky ground, where there is rock underneath so the roots cannot go down into the earth and take root.
Then I guess it's blessed to kill babies by smashing their heads against rocks..Psalm 137:9...context it very important if you want to find the truth. You can not read verses in isolation and get there.It adds insight to the meaning of the verse; however, the verse in question can still be quoted all by its lonesome and have all the impact of the cut of a surgeon's scalpel (Hebrews 4:12).
No, not according to me. According to the Bible......
Matthew 25:41-46
41Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave Me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, I was naked and you did not clothe Me, I was sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’44And they too will reply, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’45Then the King will answer, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for Me.’
46And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Here too.......
Hebrews 6:8
8But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless, and its curse is imminent. In the end it will be burned.
All I know is you gotta have works to validate your faith as being genuine when Jesus comes back cause that's the metric he says he's going to use to judge us as being a believer or not. As long as you keep your eyes on that truth you don't have to mess things up with the question of whether or not a person can lose his or her salvation.Understanding is the Key.
Faith is a Gift from God.
• Merely "Hearing" the Word of God-
...God gifts the man with a measure of Faith.
•"Believing" the Word of God-
...God gifts the man with increase of Faith.
A man Hearing;
A man Believing;
Can Freely Do ONE thing or Another thing:
* Keep his Faith...
* Discard his Faith...
Keep- and freely Choose to continue TO Hear, TO Believe, TO receive Increase in Gods Gift of Faith.
OR:
Discard- and Freely Choose to Discontinue Hearing, Believing, And Discontinue Receiving Gods Gift of Increase IN Faith...
That man; ^
Has Fallen FROM Receiving "his" Gift of Faith.
He has Fallen FROM Receiving "his" Gift of Salvation.
Gods Gifts of FAITH, of Salvation, (and other gifts)...ARE Gifts God Himself...
Prepared, Paid the Price, and OFFERED to Every man.
Gods Offered Gods Gifts "ARE Already Every man's Gifts."
A man who TAKES Measures of Gods Gift of Faith ...THEN Rejects Receiving More...Does NOT receive MORE...
He is Called, FALLEN, from Faith.
A man WHO Rejects Receiving "his Gift" of Salvation...
Is Called a man who HAS Lost His Gift of Salvation.
A man who is Appointed a Gift from God...or your Parents, or a car dealer, or employer...
If you do not reach out and TAKE the Gift Appointed FOR you...
You have lost "your gift".
Men don't FALL from Salvation.
Men LOSE their Salvation FOR Not Taking it.
Scripture gives Warnings "to NOT LOSE" "your salvation"
Scripture gives Warnings "you do not know the Day or Hour your body will die"...
Dead Body's Know nothing.
Your expiration Date of Receiving "your Gift of Salvation"... Expires when your Body Dies.
Thus the Urgency for Every man "to Take and Receive" His Gift of Salvation.
Do you suppose a Gift from your parents or a Friend they have paid for, Appointed to you, that you you did not take ... is lost to you?
Glory to God,
Taken
What was the purpose of telling the parable if not to inform people they could choose what kind of soil they will be? Yes, it's metaphorical language, so you can draw all kinds of strange conclusions if you like by taking what is figurative too literally, but the point is that some fell away and it was on them, it was not something God caused them to do.
Then I guess it's blessed to kill babies by smashing their heads against rocks..Psalm 137:9...context it very important if you want to find the truth. You can not read verses in isolation and get there.
Happy is the one who seizes your infantsbelieve that in that very verse, the distinction is made that it is talking about those who are descendants of the Babylonians who did this to the children of Israel,
Then Jesus would have mentioned that in his explanation...may be an exhortation to the evangelist/pastor that the work of "breaking up the fallow ground" of people's hearts is just as important as sowing seeds.
@Rudometkin Maybe if you got a Russian NT and read from John chapter 1, where the language is simple and clear in any case, you might be surprised how much of it you could follow with a little effort...Yes, but only a few words. Not enough to write home with.
I would like to learn several languages, including Hebrew and Greek. Wouldn't that be nice?
Happy is the one who seizes your infants
and dashes them against the rocks.
Doesn't sound too nice without context.
Then Jesus would have mentioned that in his explanation...
The parables in Matthew 13 are closely connected regarding the kingdom and Jesus explains that belowIn the parable of sower and the seed nothing gets saved, just some produce fruit, or a harvest while others do not.
The implication is simple, the sower is only interested in the harvest, it is why the seed was sown.
The further complication is the seed is Gods word, and the plants that grow produce more seeds.
So how can Gods word produce more of Gods word. The connection at this level is not obvious at all.
The plant that produces the seed dies and only the seed is kept at harvest, so if one is thinking of literal salvation because the seed produces a plant that grows is the key salvation issue, the plant dies, and is not saved.
I once thought the seed is each individual who is saved, ie salvation or fruitfulness is bringing others to Christ, ie we must all be evangelists.
I now think this parable is about objectives and fruitfulness. Jesus is interested in His words being replicated in our lives and others lives, so that new versions of His word come into being and are spread. It is this growth and harvest effect of preaching and sharing about Him, that creates the eternal harvest He is interested in. A failed believer is one where Gods word never takes root and produces change and literal new fruit of insight and truth in their hearts, which can be shared with others. In this view literally eternal life is only measured by the word taking root and producing affects in the believers life and words and actions. So by me saying Praise the Lord, Jesus is Lord, follow His teaching, is His word taking root in my life and my fruit or witness to this is this sharing.
So talking about the parable is about levels of who is saved or not misses the whole point, literally. It is all about what is the objective, the harvest, fruitfulness. No fruitfulness, no value or reality. It is not like this is a hard thing, to through repentance and new birth to start to love others.
Yet there are "believers" who claim this is too difficult to expect of those born into the Kingdom. My honest response is, they are not in the Kingdom at all. And on this thread, if love does not dwell in anyones heart, I encourage you, search it out and find Jesus. God bless you
Jesus' teachings show us what we need to be prepared to meet Him when he returns. The Bible does not teach us that we need to believe in once saved always saved or not once saved always saved. It teaches us to have a living faith full of righteous works of the Spirit that Jesus will use to judge us as his righteous people and who will enter into the kingdom of God. I see once saved always saved doctrines being used to give false assurance to church people who have nothing more than James' dead faith (faith without works). We have the focus in the wrong place. Determining if once saved always saved is true or not will not benefit anybody on the day of God's wrath. Having a life of righteous works produced by your faith in Christ will. That is what Jesus teaches. And Galatians 5:22-23 is what that righteous life looks like.The parables in Matthew 13 are closely connected regarding the kingdom and Jesus explains that below
Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field.”
37 He answered, “The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.
40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.
Good Fruit is a result of Good Roots. I Am the vine and you are the branches. Those in Him will produce good fruit. Fruit is a result or by product of salvation not a means to salvation. A good tree produces good fruit. Ye shall know them by their fruits declares Jesus. And the Results will be Galatians 5:22-23 and 1 Corinthians 13. Love displayed , love in action. When one is born again his/her life is transformed from the kingdom of darkness into His marvelous Light.Jesus' teachings show us what we need to be prepared to meet Him when he returns. The Bible does not teach us that we need to believe in once saved always saved or not once saved always saved. It teaches us to have a living faith full of righteous works of the Spirit that Jesus will use to judge us as his righteous people and who will enter into the kingdom of God. I see once saved always saved doctrines being used to give false assurance to church people who have nothing more than James' dead faith (faith without works). We have the focus in the wrong place. Determining if once saved always saved is true or not will not benefit anybody on the day of God's wrath. Having a life of righteous works produced by your faith in Christ will. That is what Jesus teaches. And Galatians 5:22-23 is what that righteous life looks like.
All I know is you gotta have works to validate your faith as being genuine when Jesus comes back cause that's the metric he says he's going to use to judge us as being a believer or not. As long as you keep your eyes on that truth you don't have to mess things up with the question of whether or not a person can lose his or her salvation.
I see once saved always saved doctrines being used to give false assurance to church people who have nothing more than James' dead faith (faith without works).
We have the focus in the wrong place. Determining if once saved always saved is true or not will not benefit anybody on the day of God's wrath.