The Eternal Security Heresy: A Comprehensive Refutation of OSAS

[DaChaser]

I guess you are going to have to wait until it becomes evident that your sin is habitual then before you will be able to see that you are a sinner in need of the Saviour.

As opposed to if you sin but once, this telling you that you need Jesus; you will have to commit your sins habitually over a long period of time before you will recognize that you are a sinner apart from Christ.

It is an unnecessary delay.

You can recognize upon the committing of one sin that this means that you are the servant of sin (John 8:31-36); or you can believe the false teaching that you are not the servant of sin unless you have committed the same sin over and over again (perhaps intermittently over a period of time; in which you have committed the same sin once every two weeks over a period of twenty years); in which case it will take that twenty years before you will be willing to come to Christ for redemption (see Matthew 1:21, Titus 2:14, 1 John 1:7); recognizing that you are a sinner in need of the Saviour.

Apostle john is telling us that one really saved is not in a lifestyle odd sinning without any remorse or conviction, but that one can a Christian and still deal with sin areas!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

To say that we must have works in order to be saved is to teach against the following scriptures:

Romans 4:5-6, Titus 3:5 (kjv), Romans 11:5-6, and Ephesians 2:8-9.

If your faith does not produce works you do not have the grace talked about in Romans 4:5-6, Titus 3:5, Romans 11:5-6, and Ephesians 2:8-9. You just think you do. You are not ready to meet Jesus when he returns. You do not have God's grace in salvation. If you did you'd have the works of the new creation to prove it. That's how and why you must have works to be saved from the Lake of Fire when Jesus comes back. They don't earn salvation. They show if you have salvation. Because people who are not saved do not live for Jesus. People who have salvation do.

 

[justbyfaith]

If you faith does not produce works you do not have the grace talked about in Romans 4:5-6, Titus 3:5, Romans 11:5-6, and Ephesians 2:8-9. You just think you do.

I think that you have failed to read the verses in question.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I think that you have failed to read the verses in question.

I did read them.

Explain what you think is wrong in what I wrote about those verses ↓↓↓↓

If your faith does not produce works you do not have the grace talked about in Romans 4:5-6, Titus 3:5, Romans 11:5-6, and Ephesians 2:8-9. You just think you do. You are not ready to meet Jesus when he returns. You do not have God's grace in salvation. If you did you'd have the works of the new creation to prove it. That's how and why you must have works to be saved from the Lake of Fire when Jesus comes back. They don't earn salvation. They show if you have salvation. Because people who are not saved do not live for Jesus. People who have salvation do.

 

[DaChaser]

If your faith does not produce works you do not have the grace talked about in Romans 4:5-6, Titus 3:5, Romans 11:5-6, and Ephesians 2:8-9. You just think you do. You are not ready to meet Jesus when he returns. You do not have God's grace in salvation. If you did you'd have the works of the new creation to prove it. That's how and why you must have works to be saved from the Lake of Fire when Jesus comes back. They don't earn salvation. They show if you have salvation. Because people who are not saved do not live for Jesus. People who have salvation do.

Yes, but each one of us will mature at different speeds, as the key is to be saved and now walking in jesus and the Holy Spirit!

 

[DaChaser]

I think that you have failed to read the verses in question.

Eternally secured and kept by God, but we will also evidence fruit of being saved...

 

[justbyfaith]

I did read them.

Explain what you think is wrong in what I wrote about those verses ↓↓↓↓

The verses in question teach that we are saved by grace through faith apart from works; while your statements contend that works are necessary for salvation.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The verses in question teach that we are saved by grace through faith apart from works; while your statements contend that works are necessary for salvation.

They are only necessary for salvation in that the person saved by grace must have works or else he doesn't really have faith. No works shows you have not been saved by grace.

So many people are being led astray by the church telling them not to worry about works because salvation is not by works, and that all you have to have is faith that is 'alone' to be saved, little knowing that the faith that is 'alone' is not the faith that saves 'apart from works'. You need to learn what the difference between faith 'apart from works' (Romans 4:5-6) and faith 'alone' (James 2:24) is. They mean two very different things. Faith apart from works will save you, and will produce works in you. But faith that does not produce works (being alone) is not the faith that saves apart from works. Faith that is alone, producing no works, is dead faith. James says dead faith can not save.

 

[justbyfaith]

What do you say about the person who calls on the name of the Lord upon their death bed and then passes into the next life one minute later?

See Romans 10:13.

I believe that this verse would tell us that the person who calls on the name of the Lord, and yet has no works to show for his faith, shall be saved.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

What do you say about the person who calls on the name of the Lord upon their death bed and then passes into the next life one minute later?

See Romans 10:13.

I believe that this verse would tell us that the person who calls on the name of the Lord, and yet has no works to show for his faith, shall be saved.

If their faith is genuine they are in fact justified by that faith in that moment and so they will be saved. Just because the expression of their faith was interrupted for reasons outside of themselves doesn't mean their faith was not genuine. It just means they didn't have the chance to act on their faith. But if this person lives a life full of opportunities for their faith to find expression in works and it never does that then that shows there was no genuine faith present in that person to motivate such works and so they will be condemned when Jesus comes back. This is not about fulfilling some legalistic requirement to have works with your faith in order to be saved. It's about being able to see that you have faith in God by how you act........

James 2:18
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.

The person who can't show their faith by what they do doesn't have the faith they think they have. God wants us to know whether we really have faith in him and are saved or not so we can be ready to meet Jesus when he returns. That's why we are told to ensure that we are really saved by doing works of righteousness. If we can't do that then we know that we don't really have the faith we think we have and that we need to seek the faith that justifies so when Jesus comes back we won't be condemned by our evil deeds. But the church tells us not to worry about works because salvation is not by works and if you purposely tried to do them you are trying to earn your own salvation. The church doesn't know what it's talking about. Every professing believer needs to walk in the fruit of the Spirit to prove to themselves that they even have the Spirit in them and are ready to meet Jesus when he comes back.

 

[justbyfaith]

If their faith is genuine they are in fact justified by that faith in that moment and so they will be saved. Just because the expression of their faith was interrupted for whatever reason doesn't mean their faith was not genuine. It just means they didn't have the chance to act on their faith. But if this person lives a life full of opportunities for their faith to find expression in works and it never does that then that shows there was no genuine faith present in that person to motivate such works and so they will be condemned when Jesus comes back. This is not about fulfilling some legalistic requirement to have works with your faith in order to be saved. It's about being able to see that you have faith by how you act........

James 2:18
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.

The person who can't show their faith by what they do doesn't have the faith they think they have. God wants us to know whether we really have faith and are saved or not so we can be ready to meet Jesus when he returns. That's why we are told to ensure that we are really saved by doing works of righteousness. If we can't do that then we know that we don't really have the faith we think we have and that we need to seek the faith that justifies so when Jesus comes back we won't be condemned by our evil deeds. But the church tells us not to worry about works because salvation is not by works and if you purposely tried to do them you are trying to earn your own salvation. The church doesn't know what it's talking about.

I would just point out that you have now said that there is an instance where someone who does not have works, but has faith, will enter the kingdom.

I agree that genuine faith will apprehend the love of the Lord (Galatians 3:14, Romans 5:5) and that such a love is practical (1 John 3:17-18).

I would only contend that the love of the Lord being shed abroad in the heart is the salvation that is given and that the love with its subsequent works does not save a man but rather is a major aspect of the salvation that is given.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I would just point out that you have now said that there is an instance where someone who does not have works, but has faith, will enter the kingdom.

I'm staying in the bounds of your argument. The truth is the fruit of the Spirit springs forth in the heart of a person the moment they believe and are justified. Don't limit 'works' to active outward doings. Obedience to God is just as much what you DON'T do as it is what you do. The thief on the cross had no active works but he had the works of the Spirit at work in him nonetheless. For example, he did not curse Jesus like the other thief did. Even his short spiritual life on the cross proved the salvation that he possessed, while the other thief's life on the cross showed he did not.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I agree that genuine faith will apprehend the love of the Lord (Galatians 3:14, Romans 5:5) and that such a love is practical (1 John 3:17-18).

And if one's faith doesn't apprehend the love of the Lord it shows that faith to not be genuine. It means that in this life, and it will mean that at the Judgment when Jesus judges each of us on the basis of what we have done, not by what we claim with our mouths. Obedience in this life shows you have been justified by faith in God, and so you will be saved from the punishment of your sin when Jesus returns and you will enter into the kingdom. Disobedience in this life shows you have NOT been justified by faith in God, and so your sin will condemn you and you will be cast out into the punishment of the wicked. God wants us to know for ourselves ahead of time if we are ready for that day. We know that by if we living for him now in this life according to the fruit of the Spirit. The fruit of the Spirit is both a restrainer of wicked behavior and a motivator of good. If that's happening in you then you can be sure that you are in fact called and elected and will be saved when Jesus comes back. That's called 'making your calling and election sure'.

 

[justbyfaith]

I'm staying in the bounds of your argument. The truth is the fruit of the Spirit springs forth in the heart of a person the moment they believe and are justified. Don't limit 'works' to active outward doings. Obedience to God is just as much what you DON'T do as it is what you do. The thief on the cross had no active works but he had the works of the Spirit at work in him nonetheless. For example, he did not curse Jesus like the other thief did. Even his short spiritual life on the cross proved the salvation that he possessed, while the other thief's life on the cross showed he did not.

The thief actually did curse Jesus before he was converted...but I know that this is a moot point; yet I thought I would make the correction for the sake of being factual.

The fruit of the Spirit is not the same thing as works done in order to save one's self.

For one thing, the fruit of the Spirit is the result of having the Spirit; and you cannot have the Spirit except as the result of salvation.

Therefore, since the fruit of the Spirit comes as the result of and after salvation, it does not come before salvation and is not the catalyst for salvation.

I do know and understand that in Titus 3:14, works and fruit are mentioned as being almost synonymous.

But I still think that there is a difference between the two.

For one thing, fruit is something that hangs off of you;

While works are something that you put your hands to.

We definitely do good works because of the fruit of the Spirit in our lives.

For the fruit of the Spirit is love (Galatians 5:22-23); and love is said to be a practical thing in 1 John 3:17-18.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I would only contend that the love of the Lord being shed abroad in the heart is the salvation that is given and that the love with its subsequent works does not save a man but rather is a major aspect of the salvation that is given.

Works do not earn salvation, and so they do not save you that way. But they will 'save' you in the sense that they are what Jesus will use to sort the wicked from the righteous at the Judgment. Works are the metric by which Jesus will condemn the wicked and acquit the righteous. The works of the righteous don't earn their entry into the kingdom. They show that they have been made worthy of the kingdom through the forgiveness of their sin and that the old man of sin they once were has been put to death.

 

[justbyfaith]

And if one's faith doesn't apprehend the love of the Lord it shows that faith to not be genuine. It means that in this life, and it will mean that at the Judgment when Jesus judges each of us on the basis of what we have done, not by what we claim with our mouths. Obedience in this life shows you have been justified by faith in God, and so you will be saved from the punishment of your sin when Jesus returns and you will enter into the kingdom. Disobedience in this life shows you have NOT been justified by faith in God, and so your sin will condemn you and you will be cast out into the punishment of the wicked. God wants us to know for ourselves ahead of time if we are ready for that day. We know that by if we living for him now in this life according to the fruit of the Spirit. The fruit of the Spirit is both a restrainer of wicked behavior and a motivator of good. If that's happening in you then you can be sure that you are in fact called and elected and will be saved when Jesus comes back. That's called 'making your calling and election sure'.

I want to be clear that we cannot be forgiven of our sins through the accomplishing of any good work.

But that the one who is forgiven much will love much (Luke 7:36-50, 1 John 4:19, Romans 5:5); and will therefore do many good works if given the opportunity.

But if one does not know that they are forgiven, because they have not done enough good works yet in order to obtain that forgiveness (in your scenario), they will not love much because they do not know that they are forgiven.

We receive the forgiveness of the Lord through faith in what Jesus did for us on the Cross (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

We cannot earn this forgiveness through anything that we might do...and we cannot obtain this forgiveness through any works that we might accomplish.

If someone call on the name of the Lord they shall be saved (Romans 10:13).

Truly calling on the name of the Lord will apprehend the love of the Lord and that love in their heart is salvation regardless of whether it ever manifests itself in good works or not.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The thief actually did curse Jesus before he was converted...but I know that this is a moot point; yet I thought I would make the correction for the sake of being factual.

Yes, it is true that they both started out cursing Jesus and that the one thief had a change of heart. Posts get too long if you try to cover every detail. I prefer to address them as they come up.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I want to be clear that we cannot be forgiven of our sins through the accomplishing of any good work.

You do not need to make this clear to me, or virtually every Christian out there. We all know this. Only unbelievers do not know this. I don't know why the church harps on this so much, except that the church really is full of lots of people who aren't really saved who just think they are. How do I know that? Just look at how they act.

 

[justbyfaith]

Works do not earn salvation, and so they do not save you that way. But they will 'save' you in the sense that they are what Jesus will use to sort the wicked from the righteous at the Judgment. Works are the metric by which Jesus will condemn the wicked and acquit the righteous. The works of the righteous don't earn their entry into the kingdom. They show that they have been made worthy of the kingdom through the forgiveness of their sin and that the old man of sin they once were has been put to death.

Man looks on the outward appearance but God looks on the heart (1 Samuel 16:7).

We are justified before the Lord through our faith apart from works and justified before man by our works.

God sees a man's faith invisibly even though he may not have any works to show for his faith.

God justified Abraham in Genesis 15:6 when he had not yet done any good works to show for his faith...it was at the moment that Abraham believed God that he was justified.

 

[justbyfaith]

I want to be clear that we cannot be forgiven of our sins through the accomplishing of any good work.

You do not need to make this clear to me, or virtually every Christian out there. We all know this. Only unbelievers do not know this. I don't know why the church harps on this so much, except that the church really is full of lots of people who aren't really saved who just think they are. How do I know that? Just look at how they act.

You don't think there will be any unbelievers who crawl in off the web who will come in and see our posts? I try to make sure that I stay accurate and also keep the facts straight in any given situation for the sake of those who don't know and also in order that those who do know may not be led astray by false information.

People act the wrong way because they don't have the love of the Lord in them. If they genuinely place their faith in Jesus that will be fixed.

So, don't put a works trip on them. Preach Jesus to them.