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The Existence and Comprehension of God

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by Combine86, Aug 25, 2009.

  1. Combine86

    Combine86 New Member

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    I have some questions about God and Christianity which I will try formulate as clearly as possible. I don't have allot of knowledge about these subjects and sorry if they seem banal. In my first thread I would like to gain more knowledge of God. I ‘am not sure if this belongs in the “Apologetic Christian Forum” but I’ll take my chances here.First I would like to present why I believe 100 percent that there exists indeed a God and then state my question. Please feel free to debate me on both accounts in this thread.From what I have been able to reason it is that there must indeed exist a God. For if we are to try to understand the origin of the universe, the big bang theory and so on it is clear that the current paradigm (in Norway at least) that "the universe started with the big bang and that’s it" leaves too many questions. From what I understand of matter, dark matter and dark energy1 it seems that the correct balance for them to reach so that the physical universe is stable enough to contain matter and not be destroyed or implode and reach that precise correlation through the biggest explosion ever hypothetically conceived, the statistical odds of that occurring have to be so close to zero as an nonexistent possibility. But then I think of quantum physics with the infinite realities/universes theory that since there is an infinite numbers of universes it is logical that one universe reaches the criteria for our universe to exist since there are endless of realities. But then I think of Atheists most favorite argument against the existence of the infinite complex phenomenon of God which is the Occam Razor principle which states that; "entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily"2 then it stands to reason that the multiple/parallel universe theory offers no good explanation for the existence of the universe phenomenon. Then the Theory of God as the Creator of the universe is the most rational and logical explanation, because if there is a Power that exist which makes the matter and dark energy reach the criteria of a stable universe and everything in it, then that Power is the Creator, and that Creator is what we call God. I know this all very sharply formulated, and to really complete the hypothetical deduction method you need at least five theories, but since the Atheists and Christian theory are the most important ones in the Western world I choose to roll with only these two.Now finally for my questions. How can we as humans possibly comprehend God? I ‘am not talking about understanding its message, but the essence if you can call it that. And if you we can’t comprehend God then of what value does claiming to know God true intentions or that you are its incarnation on earth (I ’am referring to the Pope of course)? How can you understand something that you can’t comprehend? Of course you can say that you understand that you can’t comprehend it, and as Sokrates says "all knowledge starts with not knowing", but this is my problem with many preachers and priests, they claim to comprehend what is incomprehensible.(I ’am not trying to attack the Bible here, but rather those who claim to comprehend God)1 I may be confusing dark energy with a substance found in black holes, I apologize if I ‘am wrong about the substance.2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor
     
  2. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    Welcome to CB, and this is a good, thought-provoking set of questions to ask. The interesting thing is that you asked this question at a time when I am involved in the study of a topic of Christianity that closely resembles yours and overlaps in a few instances. You'll probably see in my response in this thread that I don't believe much of anything is ever left to chance. I believe in God, but more explicitly I believe in the God YHVH revealed to us in the Bible; and here is why:Beginning with your observations and rationalizations of God, I think our perspective is sometimes quite skewed as humans. While we talk of the theories of the big bang, evolution as an origin and so forth, we seem to always discuss these major events as if they happened in a vacuum. The problem is, these seemingly random events happened over and over again. Each random event constructed on another random event. I am admittedly no probability expert, but this clearly makes the probability infinitesimally small based on how probability works. As you have highlighted, this is clearly an existence of balances on a variety of levels. I've always wondered why no one admits we've been unable to find something somewhere that will illustrate that these random chances occurred and failed elsewhere. On a similar vein, does this not give rise to a paradox? The universe, though large, is finite -- otherwise a lot of theories will begin to break down which we currently rely rather heavily upon. Contrastingly, we have an ever-increasing amount of random chance that we are here on this forum discussing this very topic right now.This is where understanding God comes in.
    Sure, this verse could be the run-of-the-mill religious claim that some god(s) know a lot about the world which they created. Interestingly (at least for me), he both knows the number and the name of each star, showing a familiarity with each in a two-fold witness of his ability. Obviously, since our explorations into space have yielded images of trillions of stars, this takes even more significant meaning.
    I simply wanted to include this verse I came across while writing this to remind us of what I said earlier about the random chance. IMHO, we are either of one mindset or another on this. Either random chance, or a God did this. Even believing that God did this, my mind still marvels at the work.I do not want to digress into the discussion of matter and antimatter too much here, but I did want to touch on this balance. Many of our scientists say that these two do not mix very well. The going theory is that these must be balanced, yet our galaxy had a slight abundance of matter in our favor, leading to what we have now. If this indeed be the case, what caused this abundance in our area? Just another random chance?Now to jump to your questions.
    First off, I think comprehend can become a subjective term. Can we comprehend yet not fully understand? I personally think so, but maybe I don't use the word in the same context. Dictionary.com lists comprehend(ing) as understanding, but I ask can we not comprehend what someone says yet not fully understand in our use of the common vernacular? Just a thought.Regardless, I am going to go to Scripture now. The Biblical answer to your question is, IMHO, contained in II Corinthians 3:
    The Apostle Paul is talking about a mirror image here. Think for just a moment, what are the characteristics of a mirror image? It looks almost exactly the same, but there is a very key detail that cannot be changed -- the reflection is on the opposite side. For that reason, a mirror image is the closest representation to the real thing, but it is never quite there. The comprehension that you're talking about is that we become as much like Christ -- comprehending as much as we are able. This verse also contains another key concept unique to Christianity: the Holy Spirit. For this is where the comprehension comes in. Romans 8:26 is my documentation for this. The Spirit is the link between us and God, knowing what to say to God when we can't ourselves. Only with the Spirit do we comprehend.This is why I believe in Christianity. It offers a God in three specific forms which all address our capacities (and lack thereof) in governing and controlling this universe. We are to be a mirror image as Christians, but we can only go so far because he is God. The belief is that this book, the Bible, is His letter left behind to tell us who He is, what He did, and why He did it.Christianity is unique in that there is a balance to be struck. For it (being true Christianity) does not rest solely upon the whims of one or the religious regulations of another, but that it is a personal relationship custom built for each and every person. This relationship being forged through personal interests and convictions. (For one may look out the window and see God in the trees or the mountains, another might look out the same window and see Him in a random act of kindness by a stranger, and still yet another may sit by the same window and reason to Him by learning about matter in the universe.)
     
  3. Brother Mike

    Brother Mike New Member

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    Well, for certain you are looking way to deep into this subject.
    That itself is a Paradox. If someone preaching about God can not possible understand God, then there can be nobody preaching about something they have no knowledge of. You also need to be careful of what denomination your looking at. A lot of Pastors claim that God is mysterious in all his ways. You just never know what God is going to do. God is far from incomprehensible. You won't find answers from these denominations. For the Creation part, it's not that hard. God is the creator. So, no sense trying to find out where God came from because He is the start. We also know you can't blow up a bunch of Junk and get the beautiful order that we have. Where did the junk come from in the first place. Science uses this crazy theory and Time to make sense out of something that can not be made sense of unless you add God to the mix. How did everything start? God did it. Real simple.Who is God?God tells us in his Word. He breaks it down to make sense of His Character and nature. He gives us things we can see and grasp then compare. Mat 7:9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? Mat 7:10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? Mat 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him? There you go, He is a good father. He likes to give. Php 4:19 But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus. He provides............ You can go and see lots more comparisons of who He is. The LORD our Maker: Adonai OsenuThe LORD who heals you: Adonai Roph'ekhaThe Jews identified with God with many characteristics, not just the name God. He was all these things. You issue is that your trying to understand spiritual things with natural reasoning. 1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discernedWe are told these things are foolish to him.Go find a church that believes in the filling of he Holy Ghost, and the gifts of the Spirit. Receive this free gift. (God in you) then talk to God personally. Learn how to be led by His Spirit. Trying to figure it out with Human reasoning is just going to confuse. Luk 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him? It's simple, just ask. Jesus Is Lord
     
  4. Combine86

    Combine86 New Member

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    [quote name='SwampFox;71971]Beginning with your observations and rationalizations of God' date=' I think our perspective is sometimes quite skewed as humans. While we talk of the theories of the big bang, evolution as an origin and so forth, we seem to always discuss these major events as if they happened in a vacuum. The problem is, these seemingly random events happened over and over again. Each random event constructed on another random event. I am admittedly no probability expert, but this clearly makes the probability infinitesimally small based on how probability works. As you have highlighted, this is clearly an existence of balances on a variety of levels. I've always wondered why no one admits we've been unable to find something somewhere that will illustrate that these random chances occurred and failed elsewhere. On a similar vein, does this not give rise to a paradox? The universe, though large, is finite -- otherwise a lot of theories will begin to break down which we currently rely rather heavily upon. Contrastingly, we have an ever-increasing amount of random chance that we are here on this forum discussing this very topic right now. [/QUOTE']Can you give me a link to that topic? :)If the universe is not finite and all matter will continue to drift then eventually there will be nothing but dark matter in the since that there will be no more galaxies.[quote name='SwampFox;71971]I simply wanted to include this verse I came across while writing this to remind us of what I said earlier about the random chance. IMHO' date=' we are either of one mindset or another on this. Either random chance, or a God did this. Even believing that God did this, my mind still marvels at the work.I do not want to digress into the discussion of matter and antimatter too much here, but I did want to touch on this balance. Many of our scientists say that these two do not mix very well. The going theory is that these must be balanced, yet our galaxy had a slight abundance of matter in our favor, leading to what we have now. If this indeed be the case, what caused this abundance in our area? Just another random chance? [/QUOTE']I can't see how nothing but God created this balance as for the probability of random chance to create such a precise balance is improbable.[quote name='SwampFox;71971]but I ask can we not comprehend what someone says yet not fully understand in our use of the common vernacular? Just a thought. [/QUOTE]Good metaphor' date=' I didn't think that far. I would have to say that indeed you can comprehend what someone says yet not fully understand, and that this is true context of God as well.
    So by becoming as much like Christ as possible, through knowledge and wisdom we can comprehend to our limits? I'am sorry I 'am confused. Are you saying that through comprehension we attain the holy spirit which then help us enlightens us to the near perfect reflection of christ and only then can we truly comprehend the bible which reveals God? Is the Holy Spirit a symbol for our capacity of knowledge?[quote name='SwampFox;71971] Christianity is unique in that there is a balance to be struck. For it (being true Christianity) does not rest solely upon the whims of one or the religious regulations of another' date=' but that it is a personal relationship custom built for each and every person. This relationship being forged through personal interests and convictions. (For one may look out the window and see God in the trees or the mountains, another might look out the same window and see Him in a random act of kindness by a stranger, and still yet another may sit by the same window and reason to Him by learning about matter in the universe.)[/QUOTE']I rather like this. This is best and most attractive definition of Christianity I have heard. Cool :D[quote name='Brother Mike;71972]You also need to be careful of what denomination your looking at. A lot of Pastors claim that God is mysterious in all his ways. You just never know what God is going to do. God is far from incomprehensible. You won't find answers from these denominations. [/QUOTE]Yes your right of course' date=' there are allot of different variables to consider as most christian denominations have different messages.
    I both disagree and agree with you. You state that God is the creator and that there is no sense to trying to find out where God came from because he is the start. This is what I mean by that God is incomprehensible, since we cannot comprehend a power that exist which knows time and space on a totally different level of consciousness that we cannot even begin to envisage, it is then incomprehensible, though by incomprehensible I mean unintelligible. I ‘am sorry for the fuss about my use of the word incomprehensible. If by the start of everything you mean the universe, then I agree God was cause, but how did the process of the universe begin? Now that I believe is fully within our reach of understanding and is IMO one of the most important questions about God.[quote name='Brother Mike;71972]Who is God?God tells us in his Word. He breaks it down to make sense of His Character and nature. He gives us things we can see and grasp then compare. Mat 7:9 Or what man is there of you' date=' whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? Mat 7:10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? Mat 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him? There you go, He is a good father. He likes to give. [/QUOTE']I'am sorry but I don't understand this at all. Could you please elaborate on what you mean by that God is a good father and that explains who he is? I'am truly interested in understanding your statement as I can now only reach cheesy conclusions from it.[quote name='Brother Mike;71972]You issue is that your trying to understand spiritual things with natural reasoning......Go find a church that believes in the filling of he Holy Ghost' date=' and the gifts of the Spirit. Receive this free gift. (God in you) then talk to God personally. Learn how to be led by His Spirit. Trying to figure it out with Human reasoning is just going to confuse. [/QUOTE']That is true, but that is the only path which to me is rational and logical. I can't attack the issue from any other standpoint. To quote my favorite philosopher of all time with the exception of Aristotle;God gave man reason- John Locke1Since God gave man reason, and reason being the most succesfull tool which has allowed us to dominate the natural world and build magnificient structures, machines, appliances and allowed us to understand the chemical/atomic composition of almost of all things, reason has given us knowledge about ideas and comprehension of theories. To quote the entire statement of sir John Locke; "God gave man reason to industrialize and cultivate the earth for the good of the commonwealth."Shouldn't then reason be the best tool in our quest of comprehending the universe?[quote name='Brother Mike;71972] If ye then' date=' being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him? It's simple, just ask. [/QUOTE']I 'am sorry again, could you clarify this too? I don't understand your cryptic quotes, I really have no frame of reference in understanding what your trying to say here.Thanks for the fast replies btw :)
     
  5. gumby

    gumby New Member

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    My advice is this, dont waste your time with atheists people or the big bang theory. They have there opinions and thats fine but the big bang theory has yet to been proven the same thing with people saying that god doesnt exist that theory has yet to be proven either. Until i have actual physical evidence in my hand i refuse to beleive either of those theories. These sciptures should help though concerning knowledge: Proverbs 2:1-22, Proverbs 12:1, Proverbs 15:14 and Proverbs 18:15.
     
  6. Brother Mike

    Brother Mike New Member

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    Combine86: You want the science of the Whole things. It is important to know how God created everything. I will try to be spiritual and analytical at the same time. There are two realms: spiritual and Natural.The spiritual created the Natural. Man has tried to figure out the why and how from the side that was created and not the side of the creator. This is why everyone is clueless, and there is no higgs particle which they are soon to find out. (God particle that holds it all together) Heb 1:3 ..........and upholding all things by the word of his power,..........God's Word is keeping the planets from smacking into each other, it keeps the moon in orbit and the universe itself. The very spoke Word of God is the god particle. How was it all created? The bible tells us.Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. FAITH. It is a real tangible substance. Out of this substance trees were created, the table you eat at, the ground you walk on. The substance is based on light. There is a science behind it, one man can not yet comprehend because they are not looking God's way, but only the things faith created. Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. God did not create everything out of just nothing. Even God can not do that. He used a material that is real. It was the substance of faith by the spoken Word (release of faith) that created real material objects. Planets, Rocks, and so on. Interesting that science has found that sound never leaves once created. GOD THE FATHER:God is not some space alien out there somewhere. He created us in his image, just like him. WHY? Fellowship. He wanted someone on his level to fellowship with him. Much of who God is parallels Earths parent and child relationship. We are comprised of a flesh body to move around earth on. We have a soul, which makes up our natural intellect. The brain is just a extraordinary organ that allows our soul to communicate with this natural world. Science now has been looking into something outside the brain, because the Organ itself can not explain our memories, thinking and functions. Duh!!! it's the soul!!! but, they will hopefully get it figured out someday. We are spirits. Once our body can no longer sustain life, the spirit is still left. It's who we are. God is also a spirit, just like us. The whole concept of the Why Jesus had to come and rescue us would be to long. In a nutshell, Jesus made a way for us to fellowship back with God, He is our father in Heaven and he does listen to us and answer prayers. He gets involved. Now there are three parts to God. Father, Word, and Holy Ghost. All are God. The Holy Ghost will come live inside you if your will accept Jesus. That is God living in you. He is real, can talk to you, give you ideas and direction. Why do you think that in the Last 100 years or so, technology has really doubled and tripled? God is showing man things about what he created and how those things function. God is even showing man the Quantum side of things, which will make for some interesting inventions. Thats the side were we start defining how he does things.If this sounds strange, then just accept it by FAITH!!!
    Why? What does that solve? God is going to melt the earth, and the stars the he has put in place will be destroyed. He is starting over, very soon. Once you accept Jesus and get your nose in the Bible, then you will start looking at things as if they do not end. The quest is not to do anything much with this planet. We are here for such a very short time anyway, and should not take to much heed on the things God made. On the bright side. Once you get your new body, you will not be limited to physical things. This greatly hinders us in understanding the universe. You will be around when God creates a new heaven and new earth and your questions will be answered right then and there. God said if we seek we will find, and that very substance of Faith God used to make everything is in us, giving us the knowledge he has at this time would not be wise.Be blessedJesus Is Lord.
     
  7. Combine86

    Combine86 New Member

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  8. Brother Mike

    Brother Mike New Member

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    Combine86: Thank you very much for reading my hearing God thread.FAITH!!!OK, The bible definition of faith is that it's a substance, of something hoped for, and evidence of something you can not see.Lets make it more simple. FAITH believes God's Word over what our physical senses tell us. It's not "Blind" faith because God's Word is eternal and the truth, but It takes faith to believe that also.Here is another Paradox. If You believe in God, creator of all things, then the only reference you have for that belief is God's Word. The terms of God are defined by His Word and not defined by man. So, to believe one part would make you responsible to believe the Whole. So, you can't believe in the "Stuff just happens" Theory that science gives us for the reason of the universe, and Believe in a God also. If you pick God, you don't pick and choose what Part of God you want to believe, it is all or nothing. That makes you predisposed to believe everything God said. And so you have faith and the Earth will be melted soon. Now I am not going to get into the Creation V.S Evolution debate. There are tons of Web sites on both sides for that, and Evolution looses big time. Science points to a Creator. You don't go to a junk yard and blow things up billions of times and expect a new Mercedes to be siting there one of those times after the smoke clears. Even if all the parts to make a Mercedes is already in the Junk yard. It won't happen. The Problem. For Those Evolutionist that have found that it had to be Creation and intelligent design will not cross over to the Full Word in who God is. That means they have to deal with God's Character and nature also, and his standard which they are not will to do. One said that even though He can prove with science that God did create everything, He will not acknowledge God. This was a problem also during the time of Jesus, the head scholars saw Jesus in the Word Written thousands of years ago, but would not believe or confess him because they did not want to loose their place in the synagogues. http://www.evolution-vs-creation.net/dna-evolution.html
    With CERN hopefully going back on line, they will attempt to find and prove the God particle. "HIGGS" They will not, but they will find some pretty astonishing things that will mess up a lot of theories. So, you have to pick a side. I know it does not seem fair without all the scientific data available, but smarter men than us have not gotten all that scientific data. In fact, it all points to a creator. If you pick God, then you also pick everything He said in His word. You believe what God said, and you accept it by faith as the truth. Once you get to know God, you will understand more and more of his thinking process and it will start to make sense. People are more interested in the creation than the creator. They want to save the earth, They feel bad about Mother earth and pump all kinds of money into saving the planet. They neglect the most important resource on the planet, and thats people and their connection to the actual Creator. God the father, who loves us and made us.After Jesus comes back and rules for 1,000 years on earth, God is going to melt this planet and the stars will roll up as a scroll and vanish. He is making a new Heaven and new Earth. He made it, He can do as He wishes with it. This planet is cursed and dying because of sin. Sin is a spiritual force that destroys and decays things. So you have to jump on one side or the other. Not understanding everything does not mean you won't latter, and is not important to picking a side. Isa 34:4 All the host of the heavens shall be dissolved and crumble away, and the skies shall be rolled together like a scroll; and all their host [the stars and the planets] shall drop like a faded leaf from the vine, and like a withered fig from the fig tree.(A) 2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will vanish (pass away) with a thunderous crash, and the [[a] material] elements [of the universe] will be dissolved with fire, and the earth and the works that are upon it will be burned up.So, choose faith and God. Faith reads God's Word and says it is so. God promised to give us Wisdom and understanding, so getting a better grasp on your questions start with getting to Know God. People do not start in life understanding trigonometry, they start by knowing what 1+1 is. In God all things become new, and expecting to know God's trigonometry without knowing God's 1+1 first is unreasonable. It will just cause frustration.Jesus is Lord, Make him fully Your Lord and start finding out the simple math of God, and grow in to a greater understanding of the creator of this universe. Jesus Is Lord
     
  9. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    Faith, when you where a child and you climbed a wall, and your dad said, " jump, ill catch you". you did without hesitation because you knew that he was your dad that he would not lie to you and that he would not let you fall, that is faith. The problem is when we get older, our heads get filled with rubbish, reasoning takes precednce to faith, and we loose our place. Man tried to analyse God, and they wrote the bible, look at what it has done , all the confusion that reins in the church, as man tries to reason who God is. God created man, man did not create God, yet we always try to put Him at our level, and well, He doesnt fit there. Do you really want to know God, then you are going to have to do something that most," christians", are not willing to do, step out of the crowd, go to Him and ask Him to reveal Himself to you. He will if you have faith enough to believe He will. If you put God in a box, like so many, and shut all the doors to him through, ignorance , faithlesness, or religion, then YOU have left Him no place to move. As for knowledge, look at paul, He was a pharrisee, knew the scriptures back to front, was held in high esteem because of his " knowledge", yet he was running around persecuting Gods people and his very own saviour. untill God stepped in, then he counted all his knowledge for dung, and all he wanted to know was Jesus Christ crucified, and believe me there is so much to learn from Jesus, He is the best teacher of all.In His Love
     
  10. Guestman

    Guestman Active Member

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    To comprehend God, a person has to look at both his creation and his word, the Bible. Of God, the apostle Paul wrote that "his invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable;"(Rom 1:20) As with a home that is designed and built by someone, the builder's characteristics and qualities are seen when the home is completed, as to how much attention he gave to detail.

    How can we determine God's "invisible qualities" ? By closely examining his creative handiwork. For example, looking at the universe, what can be seen ? That it is orderly and precisely regulated, and yet expanding at half the speed of light, referred to as the "Hubble constant." How is this possible without eventually flying apart ? In 1998, researchers analyzing light from a special kind of supernova (called type 1a and of which astronomers use these supernovas as a standard of measurement), or exploding star, found evidence that the expansion of the universe is actually accelerating and still perfectly regulated.

    At first the scientists were skeptical , but evidence soon mounted. They wanted to know what form of energy was causing the accelerating expansion. For one thing, it seemed to be working in opposition to gravity; and for another, it was not predicted by present theories. Appropriately, this mysterious form of energy has been named dark energy, and it may make up nearly 75 percent of the universe!

    Dark energy, however, is not the only “dark” oddity discovered in recent times. Another was confirmed in the 1980’s when astronomers examined various galaxies. These galaxies, as well as our own, appeared to be spinning too fast to hold together. Evidently, then, some form of matter must be giving them the necessary gravitational cohesion. But what kind of matter? Because scientists have no idea, they have called the stuff dark matter, since it does not absorb, emit, or reflect detectable amounts of radiation. How much dark matter is out there? Calculations indicate that it could make up 22 percent or more of the mass of the universe.

    Consider this: According to current estimates, normal matter accounts for about 4 percent of the mass of the universe. The two big unknowns—dark matter and dark energy—appear to make up the balance. Thus, about 95 percent of the universe remains a complete mystery! Hence, this evidence can provide a basis for accepting belief in a Creator, that there is an Almighty God who has precisely stretched "out the heavens like a tent cloth."(Ps 104:2) The prophet Isaiah wrote that "there is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth, the dwellers in which are as grasshoppers, the One who is stretching out the heavens just as a fine gauze, who spreads them out like a tent in which to dwell."(Isa 40:22)

    Isaiah again says that "this is what the true God, Jehovah, has said, the Creator of the heavens and the Grand One stretching them out; the One laying out the earth and its produce, the One giving breath to the people on it, and spirit to those walking in it."(Isa 42:5) Thus, the Maker and Creator of all things is Jehovah God.
     
  11. Brother Mike

    Brother Mike New Member

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    Though there seems to be great information here. I think the original poster lost interest somewhere in Aug 2009.

    Jesus Is Lord
     
  12. Guestman

    Guestman Active Member

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    Hopefully this will pique someone's interest and be of benefit to them.
     
  13. Brother Mike

    Brother Mike New Member

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    Well, great stuff on Dark Matter/Energy. I think they are going to find out that it can be nothing but God, as that will make the only sense once they get done with all their expensive experiments. Shame to waste all that money when you can pick up Bibles for under 5.00......
     
  14. Miss Hepburn

    Miss Hepburn Well-Known Member

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    I'm still here reading.
    :) Miss Hepburn
     
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