The First Condition of salvation

[Ziggy]

Jesus saved her physically from death before he ever spoke to her.
Jesus saved her spiritually when he commanded her to go and sin no more.
In other word: Repent.

it's two-fold ...
plus a million layers inbetween

hugs

 

[Invisibilis]

Grace is unconditionally open to all, and salvation by grace is conditioned on repentance from dead works...

Salvation by grace happens when a person surrenders to being vulnerable and exposed as a sinner. In other words, being unconditional. Repentance is a result (by-product) of being unconditional.
To receive what is unconditional, one first must become unconditional.

 

[Ziggy]

We love Him, because He first loved us.
Perhaps Grace is a free gift and it is up to the one receiving to give as well. You have to give yourself.
It's always there.. but one has to be willing to sacrifice themselves and hand their lives into His hands.

I hear Grace for grace....

Jhn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

means??

thinking
hugs

 

[Curtis]

what is the definition of saved?
It means so many things to so many people on so many levels...

This takes patience...

It's the "transition" or the aha moment, when one crosses over to a new understanding.

Here is where teaching is an art I wished I'd learned..
How to get from here to there is the door that God opens .. it is the Light seeing for the first time...
It is the renting of the veil...
Some people have a talent of explaining things in easy terms..

The first time a friend taught me that the word Bread meant the Word of the Lord.. and I understood how to make the connection between
earthy thought and spiritual thought...
That was an AHA moment...

I get them all the time still, but that first one.. that transition.. is the key that opens a lot more doors.

So Cool
Hugs

Being saved is the point where regeneration has occurred by the Holy Spirit indwelling a person after they’ve come to faith and repentance, and they are spiritually reborn, their sins are forgiven, and their new destination is heaven, instead of hell.

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

BTW as always, Paul’s reference to works is works of the law of Moses.

Deu 6:22 And the LORD shewed signs and wonders, great and sore, upon Egypt, upon Pharaoh, and upon all his household, before our eyes:

Deu 6:23 And he brought us out from thence, that he might bring us in, to give us the land which he sware unto our fathers.

Deu 6:24 And the LORD commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the LORD our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as it is at this day.

Deu 6:25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.

 

[Curtis]

Salvation by grace happens when a person surrenders to being vulnerable and exposed as a sinner. In other words, being unconditional. Repentance is a result (by-product) of being unconditional.
To receive what is unconditional , one first must become unconditional.

Gods love is unconditional - but salvation has conditions: faith, repentance, receiving Jesus, then has post salvation requirements of continuing in the same faith and repentance (turning away from a sinful life) and taking up our cross daily, and following Jesus.

After salvation, some lose their faith, some become reprobates, and no longer meet the salvational requirements, and don’t remain in Jesus.

 

[Curtis]

The thing to understand is when I say, repentance, I'm using it in the NT manner, which is not the same as the OT repentance, to change your direction. To stop this, and start that. The NT "metanoia" is the "after mind", or, the result of an exchanged mind. You have this mind, you exchange it for another mind.

It can be used and is in a metaphorical sense, having a new mind towards something. The Bible teaches a very literal sense, where once we lived according to our "mind of the flesh", but this has been replaced with the "mind of Christ". Being reborn, we are new people, a new kind of person, with a new kind of mind.

So instead of repentance being about tracking and repudiating each sin in turn, repenting daily, this idea of repentance is that we've repudiated our flesh itself. We reject the entire idea of being right with God in any way having to do with us, how good we are, or something like that. We realize our need for Jesus, and in receiving Him, believing in His Name, God begets us again. We were flesh born from flesh, now we are spirit born from spirit, with that spiritual mind.

The one thing to do if we are committing sin now is to stop. Sins we have difficulty stopping, we trust Jesus to deal with these. This is His promise to do, and something He claims for Himself. We are to do what we can, when we cannot, we trust Him for it.

Much love!

I don’t know where you got that definition of metaneo from, but the Strongs exhaustive on my bible software, defines it as changing your mind:

G3340 (Strong)

μετανοέω

metanoeō

met-an-o-eh'-o

From G3326 and G3539; to think differently or afterwards, that is, reconsider (morally to feel compunction): - repent.

Total KJV occurrences: 34

God hasn’t changed His mind about what repentance means, from the old covenant to the new.

Shalom Aleichem

 

[post]

Noah had some relatives left behind, too.

That's really interesting comment, thank you!

Which means, God deliberately killed some righteous people in Sodom?

That would be the logical conclusion to your reply.

Is that your intended meaning, or was there a point I missed?

Shalom Aleichem

I'm not sure if you meant none of the 10 relatives of Abraham, or none of the 9 apart from Lot ((because Peter calls him righteous)), or none of the 6 that remained in the city?

I guessed that you meant none of the 9 apart from Lot, or none of the 6 who were remaining, at least 2 and maybe 4 who weren't warned.
And i meant that since God said for the sake of 10 He would not, and only 6 remained in the city, there's not a contradiction just in terms of some of Abrahams relatives remaining.

Now I see what you mean tho, that, would God leave any of His righteous ones to be destroyed with Sodom? You have a strong argument.

The two sons in law scoffed - they are excluded.
The other sons who Lot didn't talk to, we can make the case that they were among those surrounding Lots house trying to get the angels, because Genesis 19:4 is emphatic that all the men of the city were there.
So it makes sense this is why Lot doesn't speak to them. But this also means his sons in law were part of the mob, too - so he must have spoken to them for the sake of his daughters.

I think it's their married daughters who Lots wife looks back for.

So the question we have together to look at is whether they are unrighteous because they share the fate of their unrighteous husbands? Were they warned at all? Did their husbands pass on the message?

Is that the sign Israel will recognize: remembering those whose 'spiritual husbands' hid the truth from them, so they perish in ignorance?
What's that mean in the context of the end of the age, which all this is a shadow of?

 

[Ziggy]

War of the Kings...
I'm reading about Lot, looking for how many family members he had..
and I got caught in Genesis 14 with the war of the kings.
And those that remained of their armies fled to the mountains and took Lot and his good with them.
Gen 14:14 And when Abram heard that his brother was taken captive, he armed his trained servants, born in his own house, three hundred and eighteen, and pursued them unto Dan.
Gen 14:16 And he brought back all the goods, and also brought again his brother Lot, and his goods, and the women also, and the people.

The the King od Sodom comes and demands that Abram give him back the persons that Abram took.
I don't see Lot again until Sodom is about to get fried.

Did Abram give Lot back to the King of Sodom??

And then Melchizadek comes with bread and wine.... after the King of Sodom takes the captives back...

I'm just following the path here...
Who was Lot's wife?

thinking..
Hugs

 

[Ziggy]

There really only is one condition ultimately.
And once this one condition is met, all others fall into place.
The same way that keeping the Two commandment meets the conditions of all 10.

This one condition is the very verse most commonly used around the world.

And this is that condition:

Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Amen
Hugs

 

[Ziggy]

Deu 6:25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.

that deserves a good study..
our righteousness.. vs. His righteousness..
@Curtis
thanks for sharing..
Hugs

 

[Ziggy]

our righteousness as dirty rags..
first you have to know that you are naked, and blind, and poor...
and they knew that they were naked...

but they hid themselves and covered themselves with leaves.
their righteousness was gone.

Kind of like what Jesus did when he was blasting the Saducees and Pharisees.
He was calling them out.
They had no where to hide.

What did Adam and Eve do?
What did the Saducess and Pharisees do?

They all got kicked out on their fannies.
Adam and Eve were sent out of the garden,
and Israel lost it's temple.

Our righteousness as dirty rags...

Thank You
hugs

 

[post]

I'm reading about Lot, looking for how many family members he had..

Lot & Mrs Lot
Two unmarried daughters
These 4 are rescued
((19:15))

Two sons-in-law Lot talks to
Their wives, his other 2 daughters
((19:14))
These 4 more are left

How you get to 10 is here:

Genesis 19:12
Then the men said to Lot, "Have you anyone else here? Son-in-law, your sons, your daughters, and whomever you have in the city—take [them] out of this place!

We've already covered daughters and sons-in-law
The angels mention 'sons'
So either God sent them with no briefing on the family they meant to save, and they are just guessing, or these servants of the LORD know who Abrahams family is, and they know Lot has daughters both with him and married away, sons-in-law and also sons ((plural))

I'm going with they know who they are talking about. That the angels aren't ignorant.

So at least 2 sons, which makes 10.

 

[post]

War of the Kings...
I'm reading about Lot, looking for how many family members he had..
and I got caught in Genesis 14 with the war of the kings.
And those that remained of their armies fled to the mountains and took Lot and his good with them.
Gen 14:14 And when Abram heard that his brother was taken captive, he armed his trained servants, born in his own house, three hundred and eighteen, and pursued them unto Dan.
Gen 14:16 And he brought back all the goods, and also brought again his brother Lot, and his goods, and the women also, and the people.

The the King od Sodom comes and demands that Abram give him back the persons that Abram took.
I don't see Lot again until Sodom is about to get fried.

Did Abram give Lot back to the King of Sodom??

And then Melchizadek comes with bread and wine.... after the King of Sodom takes the captives back...

I'm just following the path here...
Who was Lot's wife?

thinking..
Hugs

Compare this:

Genesis 14:21
Now the king of Sodom said to Abram, "Give me the persons, and take the goods for yourself."

With this:

Matthew 4:8-9
Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. And he said to Him, "All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me."

;)

Who is the King of Sodom?

 

[Curtis]

that deserves a good study..
our righteousness.. vs. His righteousness..
@Curtis
thanks for sharing..
Hugs

That was Israel under the law. Same law Paul wrote about in Ephesians 2:8-9; where he said by grace we are saved through faith...not by works (of the law of Moses)

 

[Invisibilis]

Salvation by grace happens when a person surrenders to being vulnerable and exposed as a sinner. In other words, being unconditional. Repentance is a result (by-product) of being unconditional.
To receive what is unconditional, one first must become unconditional.

Gods love is unconditional - but salvation has conditions: faith, repentance, receiving Jesus, then has post salvation requirements of continuing in the same faith and repentance (turning away from a sinful life) and taking up our cross daily, and following Jesus.
After salvation, some lose their faith, some become reprobates, and no longer meet the salvational requirements, and don’t remain in Jesus.

Just because you do not understand what I am saying does not mean that I got it wrong.
I know what I am saying, as well as what you are saying; but you only know what you are saying.

 

[Curtis]

Just because you do not understand what I am saying does not mean that I got it wrong.
I know what I am saying, as well as what you are saying; but you only know what you are saying.

You’re right there, because what you said seems to be “doublespeak” to me.

Shalom

 

[forever]

how i hate these type salvation-nazis-threads

my dear owner had to bear my neverending sh*t
which is this awful ape body i m as soul trapped into

and you guys babble about irrelevant side issues

thinking christ is concerned with those

 

[robert derrick]

Salvation by grace happens when a person surrenders to being vulnerable and exposed as a sinner. In other words, being unconditional. Repentance is a result (by-product) of being unconditional.
To receive what is unconditional, one first must become unconditional.

"To receive what is unconditional, one first must become unconditional."

Sounds good, if salvation were had unconditionally, and it is not. The statement alone speaks of God's condition of saving us, which is to unconditionally believe, obey, and follow Him.

God has His things of condition accompanying His salvation, it is we that have no conditions with God.

Separating salvation from the things of God that accompany salvation is not the salvation of God that is accompanied with His things: the first of which is repentance from dead works and then faith toward good, which are the first principles of the doctrine of Christ. (Heb 6:1)

Faith alone is dead, therefore no salvation of God through faith without the works thereof: there is no salvation through faith in mind only, which is dead. The faith of Jesus in the heart produces immediate obedience to it. It is not faith first, then works following.

Separating 'faith' of God from faith toward God in obedience to His faith is a faith only in the minds of them that believe in repentance of the mind only.

The only place that God ever speaks of 'faith alone' is faith that is dead.

The salvation that comes from God by grace without respect of persons, comes through faith of God with the things that accompany His salvation: repentance of dead works being the first.

Repent and be converted (Acts 3:19) is not repentance of mind only and thus believing we are saved by grace: 'believing we are saved' has nothing to do with being saved. That is the same kind of 'salvation' that the devils would have, since they only believe there is one God, but do not the the good things of God.

Salvation therefore comes by grace and not by works, but salvation by grace certainly comes through the faith of Jesus with obedience to it. (Rom 1) Salvation through the faith that comes accompanied with the works thereof.

There is no Scripture that speaks of a salvation and faith of God that is in mind only first, and then with works following. That is a salvation and faith without works now, which is dead, being in mind only.

Salvation by grace through faith only, without the works of faith, is a salvation by Jesus without walking with Him and doing His righteousness, even as He is righteous.

No person is ever saved now, without the things of salvation accompanying now, not following or later on.

This is so, unless:
1.Quote the Scripture that says: We are saved by grace through faith only or alone? Or, we are justified freely by His grace only or alone? Or, we are saved by grace through faith first?

2. Salvation is by grace only, and is not accompanied the things of repentance outwardly, but only inwardly?

3. Quote the Scripture that says: We are saved by grace through faith with works following?

 

[robert derrick]

how i hate these type salvation-nazis-threads

my dear owner had to bear my neverending sh*t
which is this awful ape body i m as soul trapped into

and you guys babble about irrelevant side issues

thinking christ is concerned with those

"thinking christ is concerned with those"

A false christ is not concerned with these things, nor his ape believers that he owns.

Which is worse? Babbling over irrelevant issues, or those who think them irrelevant watching it? And then joining in to say so.

 

[robert derrick]

That was Israel under the law. Same law Paul wrote about in Ephesians 2:8-9; where he said by grace we are saved through faith...not by works (of the law of Moses)

Saved by grace through faith and not by works, but certainly with works of the faith.