The Five Points of Calvinism

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Jane_Doe22

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Of course what’ve I said is wrong according to what you have been taught but God says we are dead in Sins and Trespasses, I’m not making this up. Likewise look at the word draw and see once for yourself how it is used.
And what is the point of you two* pointing fingers at each other and saying "you understand scripture wrong!". Do you think that this is going to convince anyone or bring anyone closer to Christ? What is your purpose in writing here?
(*This is more of a generic question, rather than referring to specific forum individuals)
 

Carl

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And what is the point of you two* pointing fingers at each other and saying "you understand scripture wrong!". Do you think that this is going to convince anyone or bring anyone closer to Christ? What is your purpose in writing here?
(*This is more of a generic question, rather than referring to specific forum individuals)

What is the purpose for anyone here if one cannot discuss,argue,debate about scriptures. Another idea is what’s the point have so many different denominations ? Because each and every one of them do not agree totally on everything.
 

Jane_Doe22

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What is the purpose for anyone here if one cannot discuss,argue,debate about scriptures. Another idea is what’s the point have so many different denominations ? Because each and every one of them do not agree totally on everything.
I don't think that there's any purpose is arguing/debating scriptures/denominations, and find that such is frequently very destructive.
Discussing with the intent of listening to better understand why/what someone else believes as they do does serve a purpose.
 

CoreIssue

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I don't think that there's any purpose is arguing/debating scriptures/denominations, and find that such is frequently very destructive.
Discussing with the intent of listening to better understand why/what someone else believes as they do does serve a purpose.

So listen and understand Mormonism is a cult. It is not Christian.

Your intent to get people to accept Mormonism. Not going to work.

If there's no point why are you here?
 
D

Dave L

Guest
Nor will you since Mormons totally despise Walter Martin, Who died in 1989.

I own kingdom of cults and listened to Dr. Martin on the John Akerberg Show many times.

He most assuredly called Mormons, JW'S and SDA cults.

Walter Martin's Religious InfoNet
APPENDIX C

The Puzzle of seventh-Day Adventists

Preface
In a volume such as this dealing with the problem of non-Christian cults, the question might logically be
asked, “Why include Seventh-day Adventism, especially since the writer has classified them in a fulllength
volume as a Christian denomination?”

The answer to this is that for over a century Adventism has borne a stigma of being called a non-Christian
cult system. Whether or not this was justified in the early development of Adventism, this has already
been discussed at length in an earlier book,1 but it should be carefully remembered that the Adventism of
today is different in not a few places from the Adventism of 1844, and with that change the necessity of
new evaluation comes naturally.

Together with the Evangelical Foundation (founded by the late Dr. Donald Grey Barnhouse and
publishers of the now-defunct Eternity magazine), we conducted a thorough new evaluation of the
Seventh-day Adventists several years ago. The results of that new evaluation were presented
comprehensively in the book The Truth About Seventh-day Adventism and then later in the previous
editions of this volume.

It is my conviction that one cannot be a true Jehovah’s Witness, Mormon, Christian Scientist, etc., and be
a Christian in the biblical sense of the term; but it is perfectly possible to be a Seventh-day Adventist and
be a true follower of Jesus Christ
despite certain heterodox concepts, which will be discussed.

Such Christian leaders as Louis T. Talbot, M. R. DeHaan, John R. Rice, Anthony A. Hoekema, J. K. Van
Baalen, Herbert Bird, and John R. Gerstner have taken the position that Adventism is in fact a cult
system; whereas, the late Donald Grey Barnhouse, myself, E. Schuyler English, and quite a few others
have concluded the opposite.

Since the opposing view has had wide circulation over a long period of time, I felt it was necessary to
include here Seventh-day Adventism as a proper counterbalance—presenting the other side of Adventism
and representing the theology of Adventism as the Adventists themselves believe it and not as many
critics have caricatured it.

This, of course, is not to be construed in any sense of the term as an endorsement of the entire theological
structure of Seventh-day Adventism, a portion of which is definitely out of the mainstream of historical
Christian theology and which I have taken pains to refute. But I believe it is only fair and ethical to
consider both sides of an extremely difficult and provocative controversy, which shows very little sign of
abating in our day.

From Kingdom of the Cults; Walter Martin
 

CoreIssue

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APPENDIX C

The Puzzle of seventh-Day Adventists

Preface
In a volume such as this dealing with the problem of non-Christian cults, the question might logically be
asked, “Why include Seventh-day Adventism, especially since the writer has classified them in a fulllength
volume as a Christian denomination?”

The answer to this is that for over a century Adventism has borne a stigma of being called a non-Christian
cult system. Whether or not this was justified in the early development of Adventism, this has already
been discussed at length in an earlier book,1 but it should be carefully remembered that the Adventism of
today is different in not a few places from the Adventism of 1844, and with that change the necessity of
new evaluation comes naturally.

Together with the Evangelical Foundation (founded by the late Dr. Donald Grey Barnhouse and
publishers of the now-defunct Eternity magazine), we conducted a thorough new evaluation of the
Seventh-day Adventists several years ago. The results of that new evaluation were presented
comprehensively in the book The Truth About Seventh-day Adventism and then later in the previous
editions of this volume.

It is my conviction that one cannot be a true Jehovah’s Witness, Mormon, Christian Scientist, etc., and be
a Christian in the biblical sense of the term; but it is perfectly possible to be a Seventh-day Adventist and
be a true follower of Jesus Christ
despite certain heterodox concepts, which will be discussed.

Such Christian leaders as Louis T. Talbot, M. R. DeHaan, John R. Rice, Anthony A. Hoekema, J. K. Van
Baalen, Herbert Bird, and John R. Gerstner have taken the position that Adventism is in fact a cult
system; whereas, the late Donald Grey Barnhouse, myself, E. Schuyler English, and quite a few others
have concluded the opposite.

Since the opposing view has had wide circulation over a long period of time, I felt it was necessary to
include here Seventh-day Adventism as a proper counterbalance—presenting the other side of Adventism
and representing the theology of Adventism as the Adventists themselves believe it and not as many
critics have caricatured it.

This, of course, is not to be construed in any sense of the term as an endorsement of the entire theological
structure of Seventh-day Adventism, a portion of which is definitely out of the mainstream of historical
Christian theology and which I have taken pains to refute. But I believe it is only fair and ethical to
consider both sides of an extremely difficult and provocative controversy, which shows very little sign of
abating in our day.

From Kingdom of the Cults; Walter Martin
 
D

Dave L

Guest
Almost 700 years ago from Catholics.
You still are considered a heretic according to the Augustinian and Pelagian debates where Augustinianism (Calvinism today) is true according to scripture and Pelagius (and you) are not.
 

CoreIssue

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You still are considered a heretic according to the Augustinian and Pelagian debates where Augustinianism (Calvinism today) is true according to scripture and Pelagius (and you) are not.

Catholic (a cult) debate.

Pelagius pushed salvation by works, which Catholicism also does.

Difference being in who sets the works to do.
 
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CoreIssue

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That's OK. But Martin tempered his view showing you were mistaken about him.

I listen to Dr. Walter Martin for years.

When the SDA got new membership that was pushing for reform he gave them the benefit of the doubt. But when the old leadership kicked out the new and began reverting to their old ways he challenge them. When they continued to revert he reverted his stance of them being a cult.

And the Kingdom of the cults has been updated.

Three more videos.
exAdventist Outreach - Streaming Videos

General Conference Official Position on Ellen G White

6. We believe that the ministry and writings of Ellen White were a manifestation of the gift of prophecy.
7. We believe that Ellen White was inspired by the Holy Spirit and that her writings, the product of that inspiration, are applicable and authoritative, especially to Seventh-day Adventists.
8. We believe that the purposes of the Ellen White writings include guidance in understanding the teaching of Scripture and application of these teachings, with prophetic urgency, to the spiritual and moral life.
9. We believe that the acceptance of the prophetic gift of Ellen White is important to the nurture and unity of the Seventh-day Adventist Church.
 
D

Dave L

Guest
I listen to Dr. Walter Martin for years.

When the SDA got new membership that was pushing for reform he gave them the benefit of the doubt. But when the old leadership kicked out the new and began reverting to their old ways he challenge them. When they continued to revert he reverted his stance of them being a cult.

And the Kingdom of the cults has been updated.

Three more videos.
exAdventist Outreach - Streaming Videos

General Conference Official Position on Ellen G White

6. We believe that the ministry and writings of Ellen White were a manifestation of the gift of prophecy.
7. We believe that Ellen White was inspired by the Holy Spirit and that her writings, the product of that inspiration, are applicable and authoritative, especially to Seventh-day Adventists.
8. We believe that the purposes of the Ellen White writings include guidance in understanding the teaching of Scripture and application of these teachings, with prophetic urgency, to the spiritual and moral life.
9. We believe that the acceptance of the prophetic gift of Ellen White is important to the nurture and unity of the Seventh-day Adventist Church.
I don't think they are a cult as long as the uphold the doctrine of the trinity and the deity of Christ.