CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
And your proof for that statement is?Lazaurus could not come to Jesus until Jesus said "Lazarus, come forth". Lazarus was in "Total depravity".
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And your proof for that statement is?Lazaurus could not come to Jesus until Jesus said "Lazarus, come forth". Lazarus was in "Total depravity".
Is it your view that mankind was made by God to conform to a certain end, in which God would be glorified in those whom God alone selected becoming glorified in Christ through the cross, with the remaining, who were not selected, glorifying God in receiving the fit punishment to their sins?
And that mankind is completely incapable of having any effect on the outcome, being completely depraved and therefore unable to do anything other than sin, unless first regenerated by the sovereign and sole act of God?
Do I understand this right?
Much love!
Calvinism is not biblical. It is a cult that believes they are the chosen elite.
Ok references please ? Not just a web search linkCalvinism is not biblical. It is a cult that believes they are the chosen elite.
Theologically they called religion them adopts the name of a major religion but denies central beliefs thereof.Ok references please ? Not just a web search link
cult
/kəlt/
noun
- a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.
"the cult of St. Olaf"
- a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.
"a network of Satan-worshiping cults"
synonyms: sect, religious group, denomination, religious order, church, faith, faith community, belief, persuasion, affiliation, movement; More- a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing.
Ok show us .
Which one.
Blessings
Bill
post1127@Mjh29 @Anthony D'Arienzo
Is it your view that mankind was made by God to conform to a certain end, in which God would be glorified in those whom God alone selected becoming glorified in Christ through the cross, with the remaining, who were not selected, glorifying God in receiving the fit punishment to their sins?
And that mankind is completely incapable of having any effect on the outcome, being completely depraved and therefore unable to do anything other than sin, unless first regenerated by the sovereign and sole act of God?
Do I understand this right?
Much love!
Mark
I'm pretty sure Lazarus died with as much faith in his Savior as did his sister who said, "I know my brother will live again, in the resurrection, in the last day" - which would mean he didn't die depraved, he died saved.Lazaurus could not come to Jesus until Jesus said "Lazarus, come forth". Lazarus was in "Total depravity".
I quoted that passage to show you (and others) that the Gospel is all about the love and grace of God. All those who have been saved by grace are the elect, but they were NOT elected for salvation (while others were ignored). All who believe -- indeed the whole world -- could become elect by obedience to the Gospel.You quote a passage that you do not understand at all. This passage is 100% Calvinistic. the passage is about the elect.
I quoted that passage to show you (and others) that the Gospel is all about the love and grace of God. All those who have been saved by grace are the elect, but they were NOT elected for salvation (while others were ignored). All who believe -- indeed the whole world -- could become elect by obedience to the Gospel.
And to claim that I do not understand that passage is sheer Calvinistic arrogance. Unless you can show men the word "sovereignty" in that passage, it is you who does not understand the simple Gospel.
1. ALL ARE SINNERS
2. CHRIST DIED FOR ALL BECAUSE OF GOD'S LOVE
3. GOD WANTS ALL SAVED AND TO COME TO REPENTANCE
4. ALL MAY BE SAVED IF ALL WILL OBEY THE GOSPEL
Obviously. The only glaring difference is that you think God elects some for salvation whereas God thinks that is utterly presumptuous.Everything in blue speaks about the elect, not the unsaved world.
They're not going to discontinue taking Scripture out of context and cannot claim Paul's integrity in handling the word correctly; 2 Corinthians 2:17; 2 Corinthians 4:1ff; 2 Timothy 2:15.The difference is calvinists read the whole passage to understand it correctly. You do not, but just offer anti biblical error.
Who is being addressed in Romans 5:1-11 the elect. Why do I say that?
look at who is described-
5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
Everything in blue speaks about the elect, not the unsaved world. The world does not have the Spirit, does not rejoice in hope, is not justified, is not reconciled....so you are clearly missing the whole passage.
No...the difference is we believe what is written as it is written, you scoff, and mock the truth as an unbeliever would.Obviously. The only glaring difference is that you think God elects some for salvation whereas God thinks that is utterly presumptuous.
I was hoping for a simple answer inviting discussion. I've actually read quite a bit of material of this sort.Chapter 3: Of God's Decree
1._____ God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree.
( Isaiah 46:10; Ephesians 1:11; Hebrews 6:17; Romans 9:15, 18; James 1:13; 1 John 1:5; Acts 4:27, 28; John 19:11; Numbers 23:19; Ephesians 1:3-5 )
2._____ Although God knoweth whatsoever may or can come to pass, upon all supposed conditions, yet hath he not decreed anything, because he foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.
( Acts 15:18; Romans 9:11, 13, 16, 18 )
3._____ By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ, to the praise of his glorious grace; others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of his glorious justice.
( 1 Timothy 5:21; Matthew 25:34; Ephesians 1:5, 6; Romans 9:22, 23; Jude 4 )
4.______These angels and men thus predestinated and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed, and their number so certain and definite, that it cannot be either increased or diminished.
( 2 Timothy 2:19; John 13:18 )
5._____ Those of mankind that are predestinated to life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to his eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of his will, hath chosen in Christ unto everlasting glory, out of his mere free grace and love, without any other thing in the creature as a condition or cause moving him thereunto.
( Ephesians 1:4, 9, 11; Romans 8:30; 2 Timothy 1:9; 1 Thessalonians 5:9; Romans 9:13, 16; Ephesians 2:5, 12 )
6._____ As God hath appointed the elect unto glory, so he hath, by the eternal and most free purpose of his will, foreordained all the means thereunto; wherefore they who are elected, being fallen in Adam, are redeemed by Christ, are effectually called unto faith in Christ, by his Spirit working in due season, are justified, adopted, sanctified, and kept by his power through faith unto salvation; neither are any other redeemed by Christ, or effectually called, justified, adopted, sanctified, and saved, but the elect only.
( 1 Peter 1:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 5:9, 10; Romans 8:30; 2 Thessalonians 2:13; 1 Peter 1:5; John 10:26; John 17:9; John 6:64 )
7._____ The doctrine of the high mystery of predestination is to be handled with special prudence and care, that men attending the will of God revealed in his Word, and yielding obedience thereunto, may, from the certainty of their effectual vocation, be assured of their eternal election; so shall this doctrine afford matter of praise, reverence, and admiration of God, and of humility, diligence, and abundant consolation to all that sincerely obey the gospel.
( 1 Thessalonians 1:4, 5; 2 Peter 1:10; Ephesians 1:6; Romans 11:33; Romans 11:5, 6, 20; Luke 10:20 )
If you want a discussion go over this line by line.I was hoping for a simple answer inviting discussion. I've actually read quite a bit of material of this sort.
And listened to quite a number of reformed preachers.
Oh well. I guess this is an answer.
Much love!