The Godly Heresy of Sinless Perfectionism
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Ecc 7:20 is prior to Jesus and the gift that is offered through His life, death and resurrection. .
Romans 3:23 all HAVE sinned not all are sinning
On other themes careful interpreters rightly assert that we must take into account all Scripture which bears on a subject, and arrive at a position which agrees with the whole body of applicable evidence. They properly caution not to overgeneralize or explain all possibilities on the basis of a single proof text.
This very interpretive fallacy has fostered a whole host of error ranging from minor matters of doctrine to absolute heresy, and is used by some to support:
(1) sinless perfection: one who is born of God cannot commit sin (1Jn_3:9); (2) baptismal regeneration (Joh_3:5); (3) ritual water baptism required for salvation (Act_2:38 note); (4) baptism unto repentance (Act_2:38); (5) ritual water baptism symbolizes the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ (Rom_6:4); (6) the alleged spiritual nature of the kingdom of God (Luk_17:21); (7) the "church" as "spiritual Israel" has replaced natural Israel in the plan of God (Rom_2:28-29, Gal_6:16); (8) there is no conscious existence after death (+*Psa_146:4, +*Ecc_9:5); (9) no one goes to heaven at death to be with Christ (Joh_3:13, Act_2:34, 1Co_15:50, Php_1:23 note), (10) but sleeps until the resurrection (+*Dan_12:2 note), (11) unaware of any passing of time, explaining the sense of going immediately to be with Christ (2Co_5:8, Php_1:23 note); (12) the sabbath of the fourth commandment is of obligation to Christians today so Christian worship should be held on Saturday, the seventh day, not Sunday, the first day (Mar_16:1, **Luk_23:56); (13) since there is only one God (Deu_6:4), the Father (1Co_8:4; 1Co_8:6), Jesus cannot be God because he called God the Father his God (Joh_20:17), and the only true God (Joh_17:3), thus excluding himself; (14) God dispenses his truth by means of his "faithful and true servant," the one true church, and outside of this divinely provided earthly visible organization there can be no salvation (Mat_24:45); (15) No individual has the right to interpret the Bible for himself, for Scripture is not "of any private interpretation" (2Pe_1:20). The most apt description of this interpretive error I have found is that of Lewis Sperry Chafer, who wrote "A certain type of mind, however, seems able to construct all its confidence on an erroneous interpretation of one passage and to be uninfluenced by the overwhelming body of Scripture which contradicts that interpretation" (Systematic Theology, vol. 3, p. 380). +*Mat_7:21-23, +*Luk_8:13, +*1Co_15:2, +*1Ti_1:19; +*1Ti_1:20; +*1Ti_4:1 note. Heb_6:4-6, 2Pe_2:20.
cannot sin.
Gr. ou dunatai hamartanein. Hamartainein is the present active infinitive, and can only mean "and he cannot go on sinning" (A. T. Robertson, Word Pictures, vol. 6, p. 223). This is not a declaration that the Christian possesses sinless perfection, or is unable to commit a sin, but a declaration that a Christian does not freely and habitually practice sin, or live a life of sin. Had the Apostle John intended to teach sinless perfection, he would have selected the second aorist or first aorist active infinitive here.
Robertson observes, "A great deal of false theology has grown out of a misunderstanding of the tense of hamartanein here. Paul has precisely John’s idea in Rom_6:1 epimenomen tei hamartiai (shall we continue in sin, present active linear subjunctive) in contrast with hamartesomen in Rom_6:15 (shall we commit a sin, first aorist active subjunctive)" (Word Pictures, vol. 6, p. 223). See the related notes for other examples of the present tense used to represent habitual practice of sin (1Ti_5:20 note. Heb_6:6 note). See the related notes on a similar distinction obtained in a different way (Joh_5:29 note. Gal_5:21 note).
Wuest notes that "The infinitive in the present tense in Greek always speaks of continuous, habitual action, never the mere fact of the action, since the aorist infinitive which refers to the fact of the action, may be used at will if the writer wishes to speak of the mere fact without reference to details." 1Jn_3:6, %+**1Jn_1:8; 1Jn_1:10, 1Jn_5:18, Gen_39:9, Psa_18:22-23; +*Psa_119:3, Mat_7:18, Joh_5:19; Joh_5:30; *Joh_8:34; Joh_12:39; Joh_14:17, Rom_6:16-23; *Rom_7:19, 1Co_10:12, Gal_5:16; Gal_5:22-24; Gal_6:1, %Heb_3:12, %+*2Pe_2:14; %+*2Pe_3:17.
J.
On other themes careful interpreters rightly assert that we must take into account all Scripture which bears on a subject, and arrive at a position which agrees with the whole body of applicable evidence. They properly caution not to overgeneralize or explain all possibilities on the basis of a single proof text. This very interpretive fallacy has fostered a whole host of error ranging from minor matters of doctrine to absolute heresy, and is used by some to support:
(1) sinless perfection: one who is born of God cannot commit sin (1Jn_3:9); (2) baptismal regeneration (Joh_3:5); (3) ritual water baptism required for salvation (Act_2:38 note);
(4) baptism unto repentance (Act_2:38); (5) ritual water baptism symbolizes the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ (Rom_6:4); (6) the alleged spiritual nature of the kingdom of God (Luk_17:21); (7) the "church" as "spiritual Israel" has replaced natural Israel in the plan of God (Rom_2:28-29, Gal_6:16);
(8) there is no conscious existence after death (+*Psa_146:4, +*Ecc_9:5); (9) no one goes to heaven at death to be with Christ (Joh_3:13, Act_2:34, 1Co_15:50, Php_1:23 note), (10) but sleeps until the resurrection (+*Dan_12:2 note), (11) unaware of any passing of time, explaining the sense of going immediately to be with Christ (2Co_5:8, Php_1:23 note);
cannot sin.
Gr. ou dunatai hamartanein. Hamartainein is the present active infinitive, and can only mean "and he cannot go on sinning" (A. T. Robertson, Word Pictures, vol. 6, p. 223). This is not a declaration that the Christian possesses sinless perfection, or is unable to commit a sin, but a declaration that a Christian does not freely and habitually practice sin, or live a life of sin.
Had the Apostle John intended to teach sinless perfection, he would have selected the second aorist or first aorist active infinitive here.
Robertson observes, "A great deal of false theology has grown out of a misunderstanding of the tense of hamartanein here. Paul has precisely John’s idea in Rom_6:1 epimenomen tei hamartiai (shall we continue in sin, present active linear subjunctive) in contrast with hamartesomen in Rom_6:15 (shall we commit a sin, first aorist active subjunctive)" (Word Pictures, vol. 6, p. 223).
See the related notes for other examples of the present tense used to represent habitual practice of sin (1Ti_5:20 note. Heb_6:6 note). See the related notes on a similar distinction obtained in a different way (Joh_5:29 note. Gal_5:21 note). Wuest notes that "The infinitive in the present tense in Greek always speaks of continuous, habitual action, never the mere fact of the action, since the aorist infinitive which refers to the fact of the action, may be used at will if the writer wishes to speak of the mere fact without reference to details." 1Jn_3:6, %+**1Jn_1:8; 1Jn_1:10, 1Jn_5:18, Gen_39:9, Psa_18:22-23; +*Psa_119:3, Mat_7:18, Joh_5:19; Joh_5:30; *Joh_8:34; Joh_12:39; Joh_14:17, Rom_6:16-23; *Rom_7:19, 1Co_10:12, Gal_5:16; Gal_5:22-24; Gal_6:1, %Heb_3:12, %+*2Pe_2:14; %+*2Pe_3:17.
You don't make sense brother, no offence
You have not listened to the video clip, so no point arguing.
Only a dispensationalist will argue the before, and after the cross of Christ Jesus.
J.
Not quite sure why you would post the Greek text with no type of commentary.
One verse? No, context and grammar of the text and the surrounding passages.
One verse? Not quite my friend.
Romans 8:2; For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
What is the Law of sin that we have been set free from?
It is the fact that in me (us) is no good thing. For the Will to do good is present with me. But how to do it I find not. For the evil which I would not that do I. But it is not I that do it, but the sin that dwells in me.
So I find a law, that when I would do good evil is present with me. BUT in respect to the LAW of God I delight. But I see this other Law in my members prior to Christ warring against the LAW of God that is in mind bringing me into captivity to this law of sin which is in my members which brings forth death.
I thank God though through Jesus Christ whom shall deliver me from this body of death. I do indeed serve the Law of God with mind, But sadly with the flesh the law of sin. But now there is no more condemnation to us whom are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set us free from the law of sin, the evil that is present with me (us) that when I would do good I can not, but the evil that I would not that I do. FOR God sending His Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, condemn the entity sin in His flesh, that the righteousness of the law fulfilled by us, who walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh. For we are led by the spirit of God and walk thereby mortifying the deeds of the body. For we have not the spirit of bondage, but the spirit of adoption thereby we cry Father. For as many that are led by the spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Romans 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Romans 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Romans 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Romans 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Romans 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Jesus was sinless. He is righteous because he is right with God. By accepting Jesus we are cleansed by his shed blood and made 'whiter than snow' so that we can be right with God and that is how we are made righteous in the sight of God - he sees Jesus his Son in us. Without that we are not Christians whatever we choose to call ourselves. So seeing that you had to ask then perhaps you need to think about asking Jesus into your life so that you too can have the assurance of being righteous in God's sight.
Yes we are cleansed and then empowered by His Spirit which enables us to do what we could not before.
We who do righteous are righteous as Jesus was. By doing righteousness. That is what the text says.
According to John, how was Jesus sinless?
So now you resort to a personal attack in saying that I need to ask Jesus in my life. As if He is not already. Take care...
Our acts don't make us righteous it is our relationship with Jesus which does that.
RLT63
Well-Known Member
Your posts make you seem delusional. You are not sinless.
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
Update:
I had to remove these video from Alan Ballou (that I posted before).
While I liked Alan Ballou’s videos before on Sanctification and putting away sin and they were really helpful, the problem is he is a false accuser of the brethren. In the YouTube comment section in this video here, Alan Ballou falsely accused me of several things that I are not actually true. I said that while I agreed with his viewpoint on how there are two aspects of salvation, I told him that I disagree with his view on “obeying the gospel.” I told him “obeying the gospel“ is defined for us in Romans 10 in that it is believing the gospel message. He also implied there was no free will when we come to the Lord (Which is Calvinism), and he used John 6 as an example. I explained to him why this is not Calvinism and instead of disagreeing in love and respect, he started to falsely accuse me (as if I had teachers, and I went to bible college - when that is not the case). I tried to tell him in love that he was falsely accusing me here, and he never replied back. You can see the conversation under the same username I use here (Bible Highlighter) with there being 16 replies to my comment to him. I refuse to watch somebody who falsely accuses other Christians.
I had to remove these video from Alan Ballou (that I posted before).
While I liked Alan Ballou’s videos before on Sanctification and putting away sin and they were really helpful, the problem is he is a false accuser of the brethren. In the YouTube comment section in this video here, Alan Ballou falsely accused me of several things that I are not actually true. I said that while I agreed with his viewpoint on how there are two aspects of salvation, I told him that I disagree with his view on “obeying the gospel.” I told him “obeying the gospel“ is defined for us in Romans 10 in that it is believing the gospel message. He also implied there was no free will when we come to the Lord (Which is Calvinism), and he used John 6 as an example. I explained to him why this is not Calvinism and instead of disagreeing in love and respect, he started to falsely accuse me (as if I had teachers, and I went to bible college - when that is not the case). I tried to tell him in love that he was falsely accusing me here, and he never replied back. You can see the conversation under the same username I use here (Bible Highlighter) with there being 16 replies to my comment to him. I refuse to watch somebody who falsely accuses other Christians.
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Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
My misconception?
let me put it this way, if you are unable to commit one ACT of hamartia in word, thought and deed, bridle your tongue, fully able to have died to sins of omission, you are an angel in the presence/pros of YHVH, having reached absolute sanctification in this life, you are reborn indeed, no need to suffer, or undergo suffering and in no need of putting Matthew 25 into daily practice.
You have "arrived" while the rest of us are still unregenerate.
When last have you gone out into the highways and byways and put what the scriptures commands of us into practice?
@Bible Highlighter you say we are no longer under the ten commandments, yet our Lord fully explained the Imperatives.
You are promulgating a dangerous doctrine, and you are very selective on scripture references.
I sense no power, dunamis, excousia, kratos coming from you other than condemnation on those who don't hold to sinless perfection as you do.
This includes everyone that believe as you do.
You have a blessed day
Mat_26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.
Mar_13:33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
Mar_14:38 Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak.
Luk_21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
J.
Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Rev 3:22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
Rev 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
J.
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
I see Matthew 26:41 is in regards to how our flesh starts off involving a new believer. Why? Well, because Galatians 5:24 says they that are Christ’s have crucified the affections and lusts (Which describes a mature believer). 1 Peter 4:1-2 basically says that we can cease from sin by suffering in the flesh (Which again is a description of a mature believer and not a new believer). For we should not live the rest of our time to the will of the flesh, but to the will of God (1 Peter 4:2). 2 Corinthians 7:1 says let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. Do you believe verses like 1 Peter 4:1-2, Galatians 5:24, and 2 Corinthians 7:1?
With your current belief, I don’t see how.
Right, if you pray so as not to be led into temptation then you will be protected by God from being tempted so you won’t sin.
But you got to ask for it and seek it. If you believe you will be a slave to sin, then you will never be a slave to righteousness (See: Romans 6:17-18). You are not reckoning yourself dead unto sin (See: Romans 6:11).
Luke 21:36 talks about how we need to be worthy.
Revelation 3:4-5 says:
4 “Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.”
If you were to skip up and read more about this church. It basically says that they had a name that was alive, but in reality they were… DEAD (dead spiritually). Why? Well, because the LORD did not find their works perfect before God (See: Revelation 3:1-2).
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Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
How does your quoting of these verses help support your belief in denying how God desires us to be perfect?
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
Just as Noah was told to make the ark (Genesis 6:14), we are told to make the tree good and it’s fruit good (See: Matthew 12:33).
So just as Noah followed his instructions, we also need to follow our instructions.
So just as Noah followed his instructions, we also need to follow our instructions.
I have asked you numerous questions, most unanswered.
You come across as robotic, already "stiff"
Let's see if you can explain what does walking in the Spirit mean, in your own words, without quoting selective scriptures.
You are on the podium.
J.
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