The Godly Heresy of Sinless Perfectionism
- Thread starter Johann
- Start date
-
- Tags
- heresy sinless perfection
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
I know you don’t believe the King James Bible as it is plainly written. You reject the Word of God and have favored your own cooked up preferred original languages interpretation that caters to self and not God. God does not want you to sin and or to be imperfect. God is perfect and holy and He requires that of us, as well. You cannot be holy or perfect without God and thus that is what this is all about. Being with God and operating by His power and goodness. With God, nothing is impossible. But you don’t believe those words by our Lord Jesus Christ, either. Any verse or passage can be quickly undone or altered by playing the original languages game (i.e. They are dead languages that nobody truly knows with 100% certainty). Either God preserved His Word and we believe that by faith or He did not preserve His words and we just try to piece together what we think God said based on educated guesses. Sorry, I trust the Bible, and not you.
Here is what’s dumb about not believing in a perfect inerrant Bible that you can hold in your hands and in believing it plainly.
Would you sign a contract to house if there were other contracts out there that you did not know about that could was used to create your contract that could undo the deal or change the terms of the agreement and make it worse for you involving your mortgage? Then why would you do that with a book that is to guide your soul that is more precious. Think.
Is it childlike to just read something on a page simply and believe it? Or is it more complicated and say…. Yea, hath God said? Just as the serpent said to Eve in getting her to doubt God’s word.
Remember, Jesus said we have to become as children to enter the Kingdom.
Do you ever just sit there and read your Bible normally? How can you if you are constantly questioning it in what it says in English?
In your view: Bible readings would be a lie and they could not be trusted. A person who plays the original languages game likes to be in control in speaking for God (When nobody truly knows a dead language with 100% certainty). They become the authority by their acting like they know more than others (like they know more than the 47 translators on the King James Bible).
Here is the thing.
What if you are wrong, and God’s Word (KJB) was correct?
Are you really willing to gamble your own soul over something like this?
I know I would rather play it safe with my soul and just believe the Bible as it is plainly written in English vs. going to a language that nobody truly knows today (Because we don’t have an apostle Paul around to correct us on our Biblical Greek, and we don’t have a Moses around to correct us on our Biblical Hebrew). But if you want to trust Modern scholars in what they say over a Bible that has been trusted for hundreds of years, then by all means. That is your choice. But not even all Modern scholars agree with each other. How do you know you have picked the right ones? I can point to how the King James Bible had a holy and unique history, and how it is the most pure Bible out there today (Compared to other English bibles). Biblical numerics also confirm the divine nature of the King James Bible, as well. So what do you got In trusting in Modern scholars? What divine working do they have to prove that their interpretations are superior?
Last edited:
I do not battle my friend, I just let the Lord and or his Spirit rebuke them.
Anything said that is OUTSIDE of the TRUTH of the WORD is heresay and probably heresy.
I do not like BULLIES , I do not like IN YOUR FACE FOLKS, and I do not like folks THAT THINK THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES THAT KNOW A THING!!!!!!!!!!
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
Why is this incorrect ?
I believe in positional entire sanctification ONLY @ our new birth when we are covered by his righteousness.
When we begin our walk we traverse into progressive sanctification by the action of God's Spirit leading us thru the word. Bearing his fruit,correcting and revealing God's Truth not our own and corralling us by chastisement.
No one becomes progressively holy. That would make holiness a work of men...which of course it is not. We are INSTANTLY holy by entering into Christ. He is our perfection. Holiness is about entering INTO Christ. In Him is no sin.
1 Cor. 1:30 "But of him are you in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:"
What it doesn't say is that Jesus is becoming (over time) our sanctification.
There is no process of sanctification. It is a work of grace.
OTOH...we learn righteousness or...we will resist the truth.
1 Cor. 1:30 "But of him are you in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:"
What it doesn't say is that Jesus is becoming (over time) our sanctification.
There is no process of sanctification. It is a work of grace.
OTOH...we learn righteousness or...we will resist the truth.
I see your point but you lacked understanding in my thought.
If we contribute nothing to our walk in obedience then we remain infantile.
I believe we are to leave the principles of the doctrine of Jesus and progress forward into his word and precepts. Else why did he call others beyond the 12 and the last being to the gentiles.?
This is the answer. Positional sanctification is only a point in time in our salvation. We continue past this into our walk where we battle the world, the flesh, our own desires and lusts. These we must bring under subjection to the Spirit in our right formation of standard bearers. Sanctifying and setting aside the unholy in our lives.
We are told to not let the weights and sins that so easily beset us take hold. How so ? By resisting!
If one thinks it is one and done then I fear for their journey.
Ever read " Pilgrim's Progress"?
Try it you may yet learn about what is in OUR WAY MOVING FORWARD.
2 Chr. 34:19
Well-Known Member
2 Chr. 34:19
Well-Known Member
2 Chr. 34:19
Well-Known Member
I didn't say that we are not responsible for our own behaviour. We will be judged by it. We will each be judged by our works.
Don't confuse holiness with righteousness. We learn righteousness....we progress in righteousness....we leave room for (or be subject to) the righteousness of God.
Holiness is by grace, not the law. We don't attain holiness. Holiness is a gift of grace.
I can agree with this part I think…it’s like how God did not lead Israel in a straight manner because if they saw war too soon they might be scared and turn back to their captivity. But during that time (which sort of corresponds to your “point in time“), He saved them through the sea and tried to give time for their trust to be tested and grown.
Not sure about your last sentences wording though. I think it’s Him, not we, who brings our mind, will and emotions in subjection to the Spirit in us…
Nice to meet you by the way.
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
Ephesians 5:25-27 says, “…even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.”
The gospel is also called “the gospel of the grace of God” (Acts 20:24).
The gospel calls us. This call is: …. God has chosen you to salvation through the Sanctification of the Spirit, and a belief of the truth (See: 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14).
2 Peter 3:18 says,
“But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.”
Wisdom is defined as: “the quality of having experience, knowledge, and good judgment;”
So knowledge is one aspect of wisdom. So we are to grow in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Side Note:
We are also told to grow in grace in 2 Peter 3:18, as well.
God’s grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12).
That’s growing grace. The woman who anointed Jesus’ feet with her tears loved Jesus much. It’s because she knew she was forgiven much. He that loves little has been forgiven little, and he that loves much has been forgiven much. So focusing on the love of Jesus Christ (GOD) and the suffering He went through for us on our behalf and His forgiving us of our sins greatly will lead to loving greatly (Whereby we would grow in His grace).
Last edited:
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
2 Corinthians 7:1 sounds like one going through a process to cleanse themselves from the filthiness of the flesh and spirit and them perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
No one can make holiness more perfect. One has to understand what Paul is referring to. We perfect our own walk in holiness by making sure that we remain out of the way...that we give a firm foundation to the higher walk in Christ. The fear of the Lord keeps the outer man in check. It also maintains a humility that is necessary for righteousness.
Growing INSIDE grace doesn't mean that grace is growing. We are to grow into the level of our calling. If you give a man some clothes that are too big for him as a teenager....as he becomes full grown man (full stature) he grows into the clothes. The same goes for grace as we put on the NEW MAN.
True. Gods grace (or as you term it - power), doesn’t grow. He can, and does, give MORE grace) but God does not grow in grace, His grace is, and always has been, infinite.
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
Nowhere did I say grace grows. We are to grow in grace is what I said, and I said this is related to Titus 2:11-12 in that God’s grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world.
This also fits the context:
2 Peter 3:17-18
”Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.”
See that? In verse 17 it says to beware (be aware) so that you are not led away by the error of the wicked and fall from your own stedfastness. Grow in grace.
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
I was quoting an actual Bible verse.
2 Corinthians 7:1 says:
“…let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.”
It’s talking to the reader/believer and it says, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit PERFECTING holiness in the fear of God. That’s what it says. We are to perfect our holy walk with God with the help of the Lord working in us. It’s synergistic. It’s not all God forcing us to be a certain way, and yet it also not all us alone striving to be holy and perfecting our holy walk with the LORD. Jesus said without me, you can do nothing (John 15:5). So surely God is involved in our sanctification. It’s just that He does not force you to be a certain way. You have to choose to make that your own. Once you take that step of faith in living holy truly for real, then God will move in your life. But believers cannot justify sin and or think we can sin and still be saved like popular Christianity believes.
Similar threads
