The good man that turned bad out of necessity

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Mancunian

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Thank you for clarifying. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it - in fact I would encourage it - but why do you want to learn about different varieties of Christianity?
To enable me to understand and engage with Christians better, what I've realised in the short time that I've been here is that UK Christians are more "Cafe Christians." In other words they identify as Christian but don't really believe it.
Conversely most people here take it very seriously indeed and are quick to attack and threaten the unbeliever.
I find it fascinating.
 
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RLT63

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I'm here to pass the time. I'm on disability and several times a day I have to sit with leg pumps on for an hour at a time for my lymphedema.
I enjoy learning new things and being challenged so I look things up and learn during the conversations.
 

RLT63

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If he's saying one of the genealogies is Mary's, then Chuck is wrong. This is easy to prove for yourself just by reading the text.

I can explain the difference, but I haven't so far because (a) that isn't what this topic is about, and (b) it doesn't seem that you're open to any answer other than the one you've already been given, and (c) it isn't very important theologically.
Yeah it's off topic
 

Matthias

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To enable me to understand and engage with Christians better, what I've realised in the short time that I've been here is that UK Christians are more "Cafe Christians." In other words they identify as Christian but don't really believe it.

CINO. (Christians in name only). That’s a mission field.

What about Islam? Do you want to understand and engage with Muslims better?

Conversely most people here take it very seriously indeed and are quick to attack and threaten the unbeliever.

The Czar (not the Russian monarch; I’ve called my father that since the 70’s, but never to his face - he would have loved that!) served in the US Navy Reserve in the 50’s. He had many ”colorful” sayings, one of which was, “If you hang out with the ‘ladies of the evening,’ one day you’re going to come home with something besides lipstick on your collar.”

At the age of 5, I had no idea what he was talking about. I finished drinking the rest of the beer he had given me - he said it would put hair on my chest, but of course it didn’t - and didn’t give it any serious thought until I turned 13.

I find it fascinating.

You’re being drawn.
 
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Mancunian

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CINO. (Christians in name only). That’s a mission field.

What about Islam? Do you want to understand and engage with Muslims better?



The Czar (not the Russian monarch; I’ve called my father that since the 70’s, but never to his face - he would have loved that!) served in the US Navy Reserve in the 50’s. He had many ”colorful” sayings, one of which was, “If you hang out with the ‘ladies of the evening,’ one day you’re going to come home with something besides lipstick on your collar.”

At the age of 5, I had no idea what he was talking about. I finished drinking the rest of the beer he had given me - he said it would put hair on my chest, but of course it didn’t - and didn’t give it any serious thought until I turned 13.



You’re being drawn.
Not many Muslims in the circles that I move in so there's that...
If I can understand the animosity that my kids face and where it comes from all the better for me.
 

RLT63

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CINO. (Christians in name only). That’s a mission field.

What about Islam? Do you want to understand and engage with Muslims better?



The Czar (not the Russian monarch; I’ve called my father that since the 70’s, but never to his face - he would have loved that!) served in the US Navy Reserve in the 50’s. He had many ”colorful” sayings, one of which was, “If you hang out with the ‘ladies of the evening,’ one day you’re going to come home with something besides lipstick on your collar.”

At the age of 5, I had no idea what he was talking about. I finished drinking the rest of the beer he had given me - he said it would put hair on my chest, but of course it didn’t - and didn’t give it any serious thought until I turned 13.



You’re being drawn.
My father was in the Navy for 4 years then in the Coast Guard for 23 years. He was a Master Chief. He died when I was 17
 

Matthias

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Being the father of one homosexual child and one transgender child, I wonder if Jesus would treat my children with love and welcome them into the fold?

From my X / Twitter “For you” feed this evening -

“Transgenderism, homosexuality, etc. are sins, but that doesn’t mean we should avoid or hate homosexuals and transpeople.

Jesus ate with tax collectors and prostitutes.

How else can we reach the lost with love, truth, and the gospel?”


I agree with the pastor on this issue.
 
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Matthias

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I would agree if those events were proven fact... The problem I have is that it's not, all we have is scripture to support the claims. We know that people are sometimes liars, we know that people sometimes exaggerate, we know that people are sometimes mistaken.

Add onto this the length of time from the death of Jesus to the writings of the gospels and we have a can of worms.

I would love to hear it straight from the horse's mouth so to speak but that's not going to happen.

I’ve never been an atheist or an agnostic. I think it’s good for you to hear from people who once were. Here, for your consideration, is an example from my X / Twitter “For you” feed yesterday -

“I was an atheist. Why I believe the Bible is true over all other religious texts:

1. Personal experience - Above all, because the LORD supernaturally transformed my inner being, and the more I study the Bible, the more it validates itself.

2. Manuscript evidence - Over 25,000 manuscripts with 99.5% textual accuracy - far more reliable than any other ancient text (Caesar, Palto, Aristotle, Socrates, Tacitus, Alexander rhe Great, Herodotus).

3. Archaeology - Over 25,000 discoveries corroborate the Bible’s people, places, and events.

4. Prophecy - Over 300 specific Old Testament prophecies fulfilled in Jesus centuries later with exact precision.

5. Eyewitnesses - The apostles and 500+ saw the risen Christ. Many died rather than recant.

6. Non-Christian sources - Josephus, Tacitus, Pliny, Lucian, and Suetonius confirm Jesus, the crucifixion, and early Christianity.

7. Internal unity - One consistent and harmonious message across 40 authors, on 3 different continents, in 3 different languages, over 2,000 years.

8. The wisdom - Every truth applied to life demonstrates its validity.

The supernatural experience alone is more than enough. The physical evidence merely corroborates it. Our faith is not blind, it is evidence based, supernaturally and historically.

The Bible is historically true.”

 

Matthias

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Conversely most people here take it very seriously indeed and are quick to attack and threaten the unbeliever.

With this comment you shared an observation with me (and others who are reading your posts) about your experience with Christian members here. In your eyes, how do we compare with Christian members you’ve met in scripture?

When you read the New Testament, do you find the Christians taking it “very seriously indeed and are quick to attack and threaten the unbeliever”?

In the New Testament, does Jesus send his followers out to attack and threaten the unbeliever?
 

Matthias

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I'm here to learn about Christianity and hopefully make some friends along the way.

I hope that when you read this message you realize that you’re getting what you came here for.

Beyond that, my hope is that one day you’ll realize that you were given not just what you wanted, but also what you needed.

You persuade people to follow Jesus.

I’m doing what Jesus commissioned his followers to do.

 
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Matthias

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Evolution doesn't promise anything. It explains the diversity of life that we see around us.

The Bible explains the diversity of life we see around us. It shows us that the goal of God for man is life, not extinction.
 

Matthias

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I have to attend a meeting. I’ll leave you for now with this: Man is created in the image of God. What all does that entail?

You did nothing publicly with it @Riven. Did you privately?

“‘Why were you looking for me?’ he replied. ‘Didn’t you know that I would have to be involved with my father’s work?’”

(Luke 2:49, NTFE)

”And he said to them, How is it that you were searching for me? Did you not know that I must go about my Father’s business?”

(NMB)

Man was created by God to be involved with his work, his business. His work, his business, his trade, is creating.
 
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Matthias

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The father is expected to teach his son his trade.

AI Overview, do your thing -

“The statement reflects the biblical passage in John 5:19, where Jesus explains that the Son does only what he sees the Father doing.

Key Meaning

• Imitation and Obedience:
In the ancient world, a son naturally learned a trade or craft by closely watching and copying his earthly father. Jesus uses this common family dynamic to describe his divine relationship with God.

• Perfect Alignment: Jesus states that he has no separate agenda from God; his actions, miracles, and teachings mirror the work of the Father.

• Continuous Labor: As noted in John 5:17, God has always been at work sustaining creation and bringing new life, and Jesus joins in that same continuous work.”

It’s the family business; the family of God’s business. That’s what man was created by God, not by evolution, to do.

Man in God’s image is man in God’s trade. Jesus is the perfect image of what the sons and daughters of God are to be.
 
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Matthias

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I’m doing what Jesus commissioned his followers to do.

Commission.

”to formally choose someone to do a special piece of work … to give someone the official authority to be an officer in the armed forces … a group of people who have been formally chosen to discover information about a problem or examine the reasons why the problem exists … “

 

Matthias

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I thought that the majority of people can't be wrong.... I listened to my elders and people in authority as children and young people do.

In the Bible, the majority of people are almost always wrong.

Look for the minority of people in the Bible.

Am I telling you that I’m right because I’m in the minority?

No. Just being in the minority is no guarantee of being right. The disciples of Jesus must be perfected, become fully trained, in the faith.

What Jesus and the apostles said and did is right.

What they said and did is the gold standard.
 

Matthias

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Have you not heard the story of Takashi Nagai?

He was a physician who converted from Shintoism to Roman Catholicism in the 1930’s. A physician is dedicated to doing good, not harm, to his (or her) patients. His conscience bothered him when he was ordered to report for military service.

What did he do? He went to discuss it with a Roman Catholic priest.

What did the priest tell him? He told him to read Augustine. Not Jesus. Not the apostles. Augustine. The priest sold him on 5th century Just War theory. Still, his conscience continued to trouble him. But he went where he was sent, and he did what he was ordered to do.

Did Takashi Nagai ever come to reject the Just War theory?

Take it away, AI Overview.

“Yes, Takashi Nakai fundamentally rejected Just War Theory in the post-atomic era, declaring that the invention of nuclear weapons made the concept of “just war” entirely obsolete.

While he did not write formal theological treatises picking apart the traditional components of the theory (jus ad bellum or jus in bello), his writings and speeches fiercely argued that modern warfare had crossed a catastrophic moral line.

The death of ‘Just War’ in the Nuclear Age

As a devout Catholic convert and a radiologist who survived the Nagasaki atomic bomb, Nagai looked at the total annihilation of his city and concluded that warfare had fundamentally changed. His rejection of Just War principles can be summarized in three core points:

• War as Global Suicide: In his famous memoir, The Bells of Nagasaki, Nagai issued a direct plea to the world: ‘Men and women of the world, never again plan war! With this atomic bomb, war can only mean suicide for the human race.’ Because Just War Theory requires a ‘reasonable probability of success’ and must avoid total destruction, Nagai argued that nuclear weapons mathematically and spiritually destroyed any possibility of a war being ‘just.’

• The Obliteration of Proportionality: A core tenet of Just War Theory is proportionality - the good achieved by a war must outweigh the harm it causes. Nagai witnessed thousands of innocent civilians, including his own wife, incinerated in a split second. He argued that the indiscriminate nature of atomic weapons completely obliterated the distinction between combatants and non-combatants, rendering the entire framework of ‘just’ military conduct impossible.

• Radical Pacifism and Forgiveness: Instead of calling for retribution or relying on state-sanctioned justice, Nagai famously urged survivors to embrace unconditional forgiveness and absolute non-violence. His grandson later summarized his grandfather’s worldview, noting that Nagai taught: ‘Even if you are the last person in this world, you should definitely shout against war.’

The Controversy of the ‘Sacrificial Lamb’

Though Nagai rejected the idea that any future war could be justified, his immediate interpretation of the end of World War II remains highly controversial. During a memorial Mass in November 1945, he suggested that the Catholic community of Urakami (the epicenter of the blast) was chosen by God as a ‘pure lamb, slaughtered and burned on the altar of sacrifice’ to expiate the sins of humankind and bring an end to the global ear.

While critics argued this framing ‘anesthetized’ survivors and absolved the United States of wartime atrocities, Nagai’s ultimate goal was not to justify the bombing, but to find meaning in the trauma so his community could rebuild without consuming itself with hatred. For Nagai, the atomic waste if Nagasaki was the ultimate evidence that humanity’s only remaining path forward was the strict commandment of love and a total refusal to bear arms.”
 

Matthias

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Is the world hearing Takashi Nagai? The world, by and large, isn’t hearing him, doesn’t know who he was, and couldn’t care less about he and his message. It continues at breakneck speed down the path that doesn’t end well for humanity.

I was asked if I’m worried about it. I’m not. Why not? Because scripture tells us that God is going to intervene just before man annihilates himself from off the face of the earth.

What is a follower of Jesus to do in the meantime?

A follower of Jesus has come out of the world; its destruction is sure. Go and make disciples, not go and do what the world is doing. Patiently suffer and endure until Jesus returns.

But what if the world kills the followers of Jesus? Well, Jesus has something to say about that. Doesn’t he?