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The "Gospel" of the 144,000

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by brrrilliantsteve, May 3, 2014.

  1. brrrilliantsteve

    brrrilliantsteve Member

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    “I will praise the Lord for he has looked on me and granted good fortune. I am happy because my wrestling, God is making me to forget. God hears me and is joined to me. He has purchased me a dwelling and will add to me, the Son of His right hand.”

    I was listening to a pastor explaining the 144,000 to a guy on the radio and he pointed out something I have never heard or noticed before.

    Revelation 7:4-8
    And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. (12,000 from each of the tribes).

    "Now here is the amazing part. Notice what happens when you line up these meanings of the names according to the way they appear as listed in Revelation".
    (Note: the order is peculiar, not by birth order or any other order listed in the Bilbe, a couple are missing and another couple replace them).

    Name = Strongs / Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon / Parental reason / AF website
    1. Juda = Praised / --- / I will praise the Lord / I will praise the Lord
    2. Reuben = Behold a son / provided for my affliction / looked upon my affliction / he has looked upon me
    3. Gad = Troop / fortune, to be fortunate or rich / a troop cometh / given good fortune
    4. Asher = Happy / fortunate, happy / happy am I / I am Happy
    5. Naphtali = wrestling / my strife / with great-(Elohim) wrestlings have I wrestled with my sister and I have prevailed / My wrestling
    6. Manasseh = causing to forget / --- / God has caused me to forget all my toil / God is making me to forget
    7. Simeon = heard / hearing with acceptance / the Lord has heard that I was hated / God hears me
    8. Levi = Joined to / adhesion, garland, crown / my husband will be joined unto me / joined to me
    9. Issachar = there is recompense / he brings wages / God hath given me my hire / Purchased me
    10. Zabulon = a habbitation / --- / Now my husband will dwell with me / He has purchased me a dwelling
    11. Joseph = Jehovah has added / he takes away & he shall add / the Lord shall add to me / will add to me
    12. Benjamin = son of the right hand / ie. prosperity / --- / Son of his right hand

    "It forms a very remarkable statement declaring how God saves the church as His bride!
    These names presented in this order describe a brief story summarizing the church’s struggle, redemption, victory, and ultimate marriage to the Lamb. It seems evident that this is a special message of encouragement for those who are in the Church, believers in Christ, and not necessarily just Jews."

    After my own investigation on the meaning of the names I have attempted a variation of that statement, here it is...

    Praise God because he has provided a Son for my affliction who will come with a troop.
    I am Happy because my strifes (wrestlings) God had caused me to forget, and the Lord hears me with acceptance.
    My Lord, my spiritual husband will be joined to me, and he brings with him my reward my wages, a habitation where he will dwell with me.
    And the Lord has added to me the Son of his right hand, his prosperity.
  2. FHII

    FHII Well-Known Member

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    United States
    Good post! I have analyzed names before and find it interesting -- might have even done the same list you did at one time.
  3. Hashe

    Hashe New Member

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    Interesting, but a little 'free' in interpretation
  4. shturt678

    shturt678 New Member

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    Thank you folks for caring!

    I'm more with the conservative understanding, ie, the "144,000" is the complete Church militant and triumphant at the end of time, that is, the one's coming through the "tribulation, the great one" (Rev.7:14) where we are towards the end of - possibly this very moment - not projected off to some future time as too many project - off of this thread.

    Old Jack's opinion
  5. Hashe

    Hashe New Member

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    So is there only 144000 saved in that church? Or is it a symbolic number?
  6. brrrilliantsteve

    brrrilliantsteve Member

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    G'day all, thanks for your feedback so far, I too found this interesting but also 'encouraging' as the pastor put it, and comforting as evidence showing that the bible is more than just a book. Those details 'prove' (to me) that someone had to think "hey , i'm going to write these names in a completely different order so that their meanings make this phrase".

    To put this in perspective, the chances of picking the winning numbers in the california power-ball lottery are 1:176,000,000, but the chances of randomly putting these 12 names in this order are 1:479,001,600. A person is over 2.7 times more likely to win power-ball than to randomly put these names in this order.

    On another note...
    I would be very interested in hearing a more scholarly (or anyone else's) interpretation of this sequence of names, as i certainly am no expert.

    Personally I don't think we need to worry too much about who the 144,000 are because we all deserve death and I will be ecstatic just to be one of the "great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes..."

    However, I will offer my humble opinion of the 144,000.
    They have certain attributes described. One is 'servants of God', 3 men had this term used to describe them Moses, Paul, & James. Another attribute is 'without guile' which Jesus used on calling Nathanael. A third attribute 'without fault' in greek (G299) only refers to Jesus, but it's equivalent in Hebrew (H8549) describes Noah as being perfect.

    These men (Noah, Moses, Paul, James, and Nathanael) all have 1 thing in common, they were chosen by God. (Yes, there were others chosen too!)

    This makes me think of Matthew 22:14 & 20:16 For many are called but few are chosen.

    God calls many and it his will that all should be saved. Even though wide is the gate that leads many to destruction, and few will 'find' (not 'chosen' to enter into) the narrow gate that leads to life.

    I believe we are all 'called', but few will 'find' the narrow gate.

    But the good news is that even the 'few' who 'find' the gate that leads to eternal life are still in heaven, they are still (at least) part of the 'great multitude which no one could number'.

    Many are called, and many are lead to destruction through the wide gate. Few 'find' the narrow gate, and (again,in my humble opinion) could it be that even fewer are chosen. Those people like Noah, Moses and the Apostles, also Jacob, David, and Solomon the Patriarchs that God personally chose among many other individuals. God also calls his prophets his servants.

    I think that the 144,000 is likely to be these people mentioned in scripture, the patriarchs and prophets, along with our christian leaders like them throughout christian history up to the time that they number 144,000 at which time the 4 angels on the corners of the earth will let loose the 4 winds given to hurt the earth and the sea. (in my humble opinion).

    I know this view may not follow traditional understandings of the 144,000 (possibly even my own denomination) but it makes perfect sense to me.

    I trust that others here will correct me in this matter, I simply ask that if you chose to do so please make it very biblical and easy to understand.

    RANDOR Fishin Everyday

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    I've always said....when you own a massive business you don't worry about the small stuff.

    The small stuff which makes no difference anyway just gets in the way of the big projects.

    All ya need to know is if your saved and goin to heaven. :)

    The 144,000 thing will work itself out :)

    It's that last breeeaaaath...........that counts.

    It don't get any easier to understand than that. A drunk, a cancer patient, a critical injured individual who hasn't given their life to Christ doesn't have time to know or much less care about the little stuff. They need the truth and wrapped up in just a few words. And quickly :)

    The details will always be just that..... details.

    Not saying your post is not important.....but kinda see where it's goin :)
  8. shturt678

    shturt678 New Member

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    Thank you for your response!

    A symbolic number that John seen and heard their full number (Rev.7 & 14) at the end of time.

    An ol' litmus test I use to use decades ago, since whether one enters heaven or hell immediately upon passing, is a secret and forensic judgment call from heaven; and if one knows they they will enter heaven immediately upon one's passing, usurping our Lord's judgment right then and there, thus not forever good.

    Old non-usurper Jack

    btw the ol' misunderstanding of the "doctrine of election."