[Eph 1:4 KJV] 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Not an afterthought....before the foundation of the world
THE GOSPEL
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Not an afterthought....before the foundation of the world
RenewedStrength316
Member
Doug, Hebrews 2:9 says exactly what it accomplished:
> “He… should taste death for every man.”
Not just Israel. Every man.
That includes the Gentiles, the outcasts, the nations.
The cross was not tribal. It was total.
You say, “But the next verse only talks about His sufferings.”
You’re right. And what do those sufferings do?
> “In bringing many sons unto glory…” — Hebrews 2:10
Not sons of Abraham.
Not sons of Jacob.
Sons of God. Through faith—not genealogy.
Paul confirms this:
> “For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.”
— Galatians 3:26
And who does that include?
> “There is neither Jew nor Greek… for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.”
— Galatians 3:28
You want to know what His death accomplished?
Keep reading Hebrews:
> “Through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; and deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.”
— Hebrews 2:14–15
Who’s in bondage?
Not just Israel. The whole world.
Who did He deliver?
All who were under that bondage.
All who believe.
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Doug, your system can’t account for the simplicity of this truth:
> “He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
— 1 John 2:2
You can try to clip the wings of grace.
But the blood already flew beyond the camp—
And it’s calling you to come outside the gate,
where only Christ stands.
Are you willing to go to Him, or are you going to keep hiding behind shadows?
Because the temple veil is torn.
And your excuses just got sliced with it.
That ignores determining who the all is which I showed is Israel........you dont have to agree
RenewedStrength316
Member
Doug, you just admitted it:
> “This speaks of the salvation for the world found in Christ.”
Now read that back to yourself. Slowly.
Because that salvation didn’t come through Israel’s obedience.
It came through Israel’s rejection.
The cross wasn’t the fruit of a kingdom—it was the cost of its refusal.
Jesus didn’t just die so Israel could bless the nations later.
He died because Israel rejected the kingdom, and in doing so, opened the floodgates of grace to the Gentiles.
That’s not plan B. That was the mystery hidden in ages past.
> “Through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles…”
— Romans 11:11
So yes, Isaiah 49:6 is about salvation to the ends of the earth.
And Paul in Acts 13 says it was fulfilled in him preaching to Gentiles—not waiting on a future remnant to fulfill it.
> “So hath the Lord commanded us…” — Acts 13:47
You can try to split hairs between “light” and “ransom” all you want—
But when the Light came into the world, it wasn’t just to shine—it was to die:
> “The Light shines in the darkness… and the darkness comprehended it not.” — John 1:5
“Behold the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world.” — John 1:29
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You keep quoting Zechariah 8:23 like Gentiles will grab the cloak of the Jew.
But in Acts, it was the Jew rejecting the gospel…
And the Gentiles receiving it gladly.
> “Seeing ye put it from you… lo, we turn to the Gentiles.”
— Acts 13:46
Don’t twist Isaiah’s light into a future flashlight for Israel.
The sunrise already came.
The veil already tore.
The stone is already rolled away.
And the cross already split history open.
---
You say Isaiah doesn’t reveal what the cross accomplished?
Then why does Isaiah 53 say:
> “The LORD hath laid on Him the iniquity of us all”?
“By His knowledge shall My righteous servant justify many”?
“He shall see the travail of His soul, and shall be satisfied”?
That’s not vague prophecy.
That’s explicit atonement.
Paul didn’t invent that.
He preached it, because the prophets had already witnessed to it:
> “To Him give all the prophets witness, that through His name whosoever believeth in Him shall receive remission of sins.”
— Acts 10:43
So Doug, stop hiding behind 1 Timothy 2:6 like it was an afterthought.
Jesus didn’t become a ransom for all in Paul’s gospel.
He was the ransom from the foundation of the world. (Revelation 13:8)
And every prophet—Isaiah, Hosea, Zechariah, David— saw Him coming.
You just don’t want to see it.
But the Light keeps shining—
And it’s exposing the cracks in your system.
Not to shame you,
but to save you.
If you still have ears, then listen.
If not, then your gospel isn’t too deep.
It’s too dead.
RenewedStrength316
Member
You say, “We wouldn’t know this without Paul”?
That’s not the defense you think it is.
That’s an indictment.
Because it means God gave Paul the revelation to tear down your theology.
Paul didn’t build a new wall—he shattered one.
> “Now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.”
— Ephesians 2:13
Not by Israel.
Not by covenants.
Not by kingdom preaching.
By the blood.
---
> “To make in Himself of twain one new man, so making peace.”
— Ephesians 2:15
One new man—not Israel plus Gentiles.
Not two flocks.
One. New. Man.
You call that a “dispensational truth”?
No—it’s a cross truth.
Because the blood that tore the veil also tore the wall.
---
So let’s make it plain, Doug:
If you still cling to “Israel first,”
If you still divide the body,
If you still teach two gospels...
Then you haven’t just missed Paul.
You’ve missed Jesus.
And that’s not a doctrinal error.
That’s spiritual blindness.
> “He is our peace.”
Not Israel.
Not Paul.
Christ alone.
Repent of the wall you’re rebuilding.
Because if He tore it down with nails,
you won’t stand trying to raise it with words.
RenewedStrength316
Member
Then you’ve made your final mistake, Doug.
Because if you say Peter never taught Galatians 3:28, you’ve just accused the Spirit of contradiction.
Same Spirit.
Same gospel.
Same Christ.
If Peter preached one gospel and Paul another—your god is divided, and your Bible is broken.
But the Scriptures are not broken.
You are.
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Peter did preach it, Doug. Not in your twisted, dispensational filters—but in the raw power of the Spirit:
> “God made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.”
— Acts 15:9
> “But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.”
— Acts 15:11
That’s Peter. And that’s the gospel.
---
Paul didn’t invent Galatians 3:28.
He declared what Jesus accomplished:
> “There is neither Jew nor Greek… for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.”
— Galatians 3:28
Not one remnant and one body.
Not one for Jews and one for Gentiles.
One body. One gospel. One Lord.
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Doug, your theology exalts Peter’s ignorance and buries Paul’s clarity.
It slices Christ into factions.
But Scripture says:
> “Is Christ divided?” — 1 Corinthians 1:13
No, He’s not.
So stop dividing what the blood of the cross has already made one.
Repent of this heresy before it eats you alive.
Because God is not the author of confusion—but you are.
And the remnant you speak of?
It’s not a bloodline.
It’s a born-again people.
> “If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature.” — 2 Corinthians 5:17
Not just Jews.
Not just Gentiles.
Whoever believes.
That’s the only remnant that matters now.
RenewedStrength316
Member
Doug, thank you—you just destroyed your own position.
You quote Ephesians 1:4—“He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world.” Amen. But here’s the question:
If this salvation was chosen before the foundation of the world,
then how can you say it was a mystery hidden until Paul?
How can you say it didn’t apply until your “dispensation,”
if the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world (Revelation 13:8),
and if God's eternal purpose was in Christ Jesus our Lord (Ephesians 3:11)?
You can’t have it both ways.
If the body of Christ was chosen before creation,
then the gospel that saves it isn’t an “afterthought.”
It’s the eternal gospel (Revelation 14:6)—and it was proclaimed in shadows and types from Genesis to Malachi.
---
Let’s go further:
> “To Him give all the prophets witness, that through His name whosoever believeth in Him shall receive remission of sins.” — Acts 10:43
That's not Paul's “new message.”
That’s Peter preaching what was already foretold.
> “The gospel... which He promised afore by His prophets in the Holy Scriptures.” — Romans 1:1–2
That’s Paul confirming it.
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Doug, every time you admit the cross was foreordained…
you crush your own dispensational walls.
The gospel isn’t bound by charts.
It’s bound in blood.
And that blood was always God’s plan.
> “According to the eternal purpose which He purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord.” — Ephesians 3:11
RenewedStrength316
Member
Doug, you’re twisting “all” into a cage to trap God’s promise inside ethnic borders. But Scripture refuses your limits:
> “And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins... Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ...” — Ephesians 2:1-5
Paul’s “all” is not ethnic—it’s spiritual, universal, and unstoppable.
> “He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.” — 1 John 2:2
The blood of Christ does not discriminate. It’s for us all—the fallen, the lost, the broken.
Dare not fence in the grace of God with your human categories. Scripture shouts freedom. Your “Israel-only” is a shackle.
> “Who hath believed our report?” — Isaiah 53:1 is not a question of ethnicity, but of faith.
Faith opens the door—without it, even Israel remains outside.
Hold fast to the full scope of the cross, Doug. The gospel does not pivot on ethnic lines—it crushes them.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
@Doug = How many gospels are spoken of here in John 1:10-13
He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
RenewedStrength316
Member
Doug, hear this as the voice of the Watchman—no compromise, no retreat:
You have built a house on sand, a doctrine fractured and divided by man’s feeble hands. You cage the gospel in ethnic cells, shackling the blood of Jesus to Israel alone. But the Word rends your walls, and every verse you clutch turns to dust in the fire of truth.
> “For He is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us.” — Ephesians 2:14
The cross did not distinguish Jew from Gentile; it demolished the dividing wall. If you refuse to see this, you stand condemned by your own blindness. Isaiah 53 is not Israel’s secret code—it is the Lamb’s open wound for all:
> “The Lord hath laid on Him the iniquity of us all.” — Isaiah 53:6
You twist ‘many’ into ‘only Israel,’ but Paul shatters that lie with thunder in 1 Timothy 2:6:
> “Who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.”
This all is every man, every nation, every sinner—none excluded. Your dispensational patchwork can’t sew over the eternal blood of Christ. Your “remnant” is no refuge for pride; it’s a warning sign for those lost in the wilderness of error.
You claim Paul was not in the remnant because of his past. Foolish. God’s grace was poured out on Paul to reveal the fullness of salvation to the Gentiles—who were once strangers but are now heirs with Israel.
> “But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.” — Ephesians 2:13
You stand on a cliff’s edge, clinging to shadows, while the Word calls you to step into the light. The prophets did not speak in riddles to Israel only—they painted the path to Calvary for all the earth to see.
> “Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of thy law.” — Psalm 119:18
If you will not open your eyes, then know this: your theology is a stumbling block, a snare to the sheep, a counterfeit gospel that leads to destruction. The blood of Jesus is not for sale to be divided by human hands.
> “If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.” — Galatians 1:9
I declare to you now—by the authority of Jesus Christ—repent! Tear down your altars of division and embrace the fullness of the cross.
The seals are broken. The trumpets sound.
The day of reckoning is coming—for those who twist the gospel for their own gain.
The Spirit cries out:
> “Come out of her, my people, lest ye share in her plagues.” — Revelation 18:4
There is mercy for the broken, grace for the humble, but wrath for the proud.
Choose now, Doug. Stand with the true gospel, or be numbered with the false.
This is not politics. This is not debate.
This is the sword of the Lord.
Will you yield? Or will you be crushed?
You have built a house on sand, a doctrine fractured and divided by man’s feeble hands. You cage the gospel in ethnic cells, shackling the blood of Jesus to Israel alone. But the Word rends your walls, and every verse you clutch turns to dust in the fire of truth.
> “For He is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us.” — Ephesians 2:14
The cross did not distinguish Jew from Gentile; it demolished the dividing wall. If you refuse to see this, you stand condemned by your own blindness. Isaiah 53 is not Israel’s secret code—it is the Lamb’s open wound for all:
> “The Lord hath laid on Him the iniquity of us all.” — Isaiah 53:6
You twist ‘many’ into ‘only Israel,’ but Paul shatters that lie with thunder in 1 Timothy 2:6:
> “Who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.”
This all is every man, every nation, every sinner—none excluded. Your dispensational patchwork can’t sew over the eternal blood of Christ. Your “remnant” is no refuge for pride; it’s a warning sign for those lost in the wilderness of error.
You claim Paul was not in the remnant because of his past. Foolish. God’s grace was poured out on Paul to reveal the fullness of salvation to the Gentiles—who were once strangers but are now heirs with Israel.
> “But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.” — Ephesians 2:13
You stand on a cliff’s edge, clinging to shadows, while the Word calls you to step into the light. The prophets did not speak in riddles to Israel only—they painted the path to Calvary for all the earth to see.
> “Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of thy law.” — Psalm 119:18
If you will not open your eyes, then know this: your theology is a stumbling block, a snare to the sheep, a counterfeit gospel that leads to destruction. The blood of Jesus is not for sale to be divided by human hands.
> “If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.” — Galatians 1:9
I declare to you now—by the authority of Jesus Christ—repent! Tear down your altars of division and embrace the fullness of the cross.
The seals are broken. The trumpets sound.
The day of reckoning is coming—for those who twist the gospel for their own gain.
The Spirit cries out:
> “Come out of her, my people, lest ye share in her plagues.” — Revelation 18:4
There is mercy for the broken, grace for the humble, but wrath for the proud.
Choose now, Doug. Stand with the true gospel, or be numbered with the false.
This is not politics. This is not debate.
This is the sword of the Lord.
Will you yield? Or will you be crushed?
RenewedStrength316
Member
Doug, this is your final warning—your last stand under heaven’s judgment.
You have masqueraded as a teacher of Christ, but your gospel is fractured, a heresy that divides the blood of Jesus and shames the cross. You stand exposed before the Word—naked and trembling.
The gospel is not a tribal fence to keep the Gentiles out, nor a loophole to dismiss Christ’s ransom for all.
> “Who gave Himself a ransom for all...” — 1 Timothy 2:6
This all is not negotiable. It is not reserved for Israel only or “this dispensation” alone. It is the eternal decree of God—sealed in the Lamb’s blood from before the foundation of the world.
Your "remnant," your "dispensations," your “Paul was different” excuses are lies dressed up as theology. They crumble before the light of Scripture like chaff before the wind.
Isaiah 53 declares:
> “He was wounded for our transgressions, bruised for our iniquities... the LORD hath laid on Him the iniquity of us all.”
Not some, not many, not Israel only—but all.
You twist the prophets into shackles to bind the gospel, but they scream from the pages:
> “The Gentiles shall come to Your light, and kings to the brightness of Your rising.” — Isaiah 60:3
Paul did not invent a new gospel; he revealed the fullness of the gospel Jesus preached.
> “To Him give all the prophets witness, that through His name whosoever believeth in Him shall receive remission of sins.” — Acts 10:43
If you call this division truth, you call Christ a liar.
If you refuse this gospel, you crucify Him afresh.
> “There is one body, and one Spirit... one Lord, one faith, one baptism.” — Ephesians 4:4–5
You stand on the wrong side, Doug. Your house is built on the shifting sands of tradition, not the rock of Christ.
And on that rock, the gates of hell will never prevail.
So repent. Repent before the hammer of God shatters your proud defenses.
> “He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.” — Revelation 2:7
Your false gospel will be silenced.
The true gospel—the gospel of grace, mercy, and blood for all—will roar like thunder and sweep away every lie.
This is the final blow.
Will you fall?
Or will you bow?
You have masqueraded as a teacher of Christ, but your gospel is fractured, a heresy that divides the blood of Jesus and shames the cross. You stand exposed before the Word—naked and trembling.
The gospel is not a tribal fence to keep the Gentiles out, nor a loophole to dismiss Christ’s ransom for all.
> “Who gave Himself a ransom for all...” — 1 Timothy 2:6
This all is not negotiable. It is not reserved for Israel only or “this dispensation” alone. It is the eternal decree of God—sealed in the Lamb’s blood from before the foundation of the world.
Your "remnant," your "dispensations," your “Paul was different” excuses are lies dressed up as theology. They crumble before the light of Scripture like chaff before the wind.
Isaiah 53 declares:
> “He was wounded for our transgressions, bruised for our iniquities... the LORD hath laid on Him the iniquity of us all.”
Not some, not many, not Israel only—but all.
You twist the prophets into shackles to bind the gospel, but they scream from the pages:
> “The Gentiles shall come to Your light, and kings to the brightness of Your rising.” — Isaiah 60:3
Paul did not invent a new gospel; he revealed the fullness of the gospel Jesus preached.
> “To Him give all the prophets witness, that through His name whosoever believeth in Him shall receive remission of sins.” — Acts 10:43
If you call this division truth, you call Christ a liar.
If you refuse this gospel, you crucify Him afresh.
> “There is one body, and one Spirit... one Lord, one faith, one baptism.” — Ephesians 4:4–5
You stand on the wrong side, Doug. Your house is built on the shifting sands of tradition, not the rock of Christ.
And on that rock, the gates of hell will never prevail.
So repent. Repent before the hammer of God shatters your proud defenses.
> “He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.” — Revelation 2:7
Your false gospel will be silenced.
The true gospel—the gospel of grace, mercy, and blood for all—will roar like thunder and sweep away every lie.
This is the final blow.
Will you fall?
Or will you bow?
RenewedStrength316
Member
Doug, You Just Denied the Church
You said:
> “It is not spiritual Israel.”
But Paul said:
> “They are not all Israel, which are of Israel… That is, they which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.” — Romans 9:6,8
You deny spiritual Israel? Then you deny that God ever had a plan for a remnant beyond bloodlines.
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You reject spiritual Israel?
Then explain this:
> “And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.” — Galatians 6:16
Who is Paul talking to? Gentile believers. He just called them the Israel of God—those in Christ Jesus, not in Abraham’s DNA.
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And now, let’s drive it to the cross.
> “That at that time ye [Gentiles] were without Christ… being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel… But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.” — Ephesians 2:12–13
> “He hath made both one… to make in Himself of twain one new man…” — Ephesians 2:14–15
The cross obliterated the wall. Gentile believers are not second-class citizens. They are full heirs. Co-heirs.
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Doug, your theology keeps rebuilding the wall Jesus tore down with His own flesh.
You are fighting against the very blood that bought you.
This is not just doctrinal error. This is another gospel.
> “If anyone preaches another gospel… let him be accursed.” — Galatians 1:8
I’m not here to win arguments. I’m here to burn down lies.
Either you repent of this divisive, two-gospel heresy…
Or you’ll face the judgment of the One who said:
> “I will build My church…” — Matthew 16:18
Not Israel 2.0.
Not a temporary Gentile club.
His blood-bought Bride.
---
Final word:
> “And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.” — Galatians 3:29
If you’re not spiritual Israel,
you’re not saved.
Let that sink in.
