The Great Crowd

[Webers_Home]

.
Spirit regeneration spoken of by John 3:3-8 is oftentimes conflated with Spirit
baptism spoken of by 1Cor 12:13, but the two are neither the same procedure
nor do they serve the same purpose.

Spirit regeneration has been an available blessing since practically the dawn of
Man, whereas Spirit baptism didn't become available till Jesus began assembling
the church he spoke of at Matt 16:18.
_

 

[doxley]

That is because the “due time” for the wise to understand has come, (that is the wise according to spiritual understanding, the spirit begotten) in fact that due time, the “Time of the End”, began in 1799 A.D. with the end of the 1260 days of Daniel, which had its beginning when the Abomination of desolation was first set up in 539 A.D..

Or as expressed in Daniel, “a time, times and half a time”. A “time” is 360 years based on the Jewish calendar. Thus, a time (360 years), times, (2 X 360 years or 720 years) and a half a time (180 years) gives us 1260 years total.

A correct understanding of the 1,260, the 1,290, and the 1,335 days is almost essential to be in the “wise” class. To have this understanding however does not mean one is of the Little Flock, but it does mean the individual is enlightened to a degree.

As for the Apostles they lived before the “due time” for this understanding was to be fully understood, nor was it necessary for them to know at the time. Now the Apostle Paul was given some special revelations (insight) into these things, but he was forbidden at the time to fully indulge them. (2 Cor 12:1-4)

I'm assuming you're part of the bible students organization who broke off from JW's way back then.

 

[doxley]

I would suggest you consider a look at the following two posts.

The Two Salvations

Two Phases of the Kingdom

I agree there is to be an earthly 2nd resurrection (just as the Jews believed) which will happen in the millennium, what I don't agree with is that there are two classes of believers of Jesus right now, before the millennium.

Now is the time for Jesus to sort through our hearts and find his heavenly priests and rulers, I do not agree that people here on earth should be presently saying, "I'm of the heavenly resurrection" or "I'm of the earthly resurrection". Jesus is offering all of us the chance to be part of his heavenly first resurrection, the whole of the New Testament talks of this hope.

 

[Harvest 1874]

I'm assuming you're part of the bible students organization who broke off from JW's way back then.

I am indeed a Bible Student, however you incorrect in your thought that the Bible Students broke off from the JW's. The Bible Students Association existed prior to the Jehovah's Witnesses. It is they who are and off-shoot of the Bible Students NOT vice-verses. The Bible Students Association started back around 1879 whereas the Jehovah's Witnesses didn't come into existence until 1931.

See our blog post, Jehovah’s Witnesses views on Armageddon and Second Death, Part 1 for a better understanding of this.

 

[Harvest 1874]

I agree there is to be an earthly 2nd resurrection (just as the Jews believed) which will happen in the millennium, what I don't agree with is that there are two classes of believers of Jesus right now, before the millennium.

Now is the time for Jesus to sort through our hearts and find his heavenly priests and rulers, I do not agree that people here on earth should be presently saying, "I'm of the heavenly resurrection" or "I'm of the earthly resurrection". Jesus is offering all of us the chance to be part of his heavenly first resurrection, the whole of the New Testament talks of this hope.

In this we are in agreement. There is but the one call, the one hope at this time, and that is the heavenly calling, to those who would be joint heirs with our Lord Jesus Christ. There is no earthly calling at this time. The call to earthly blessings, to restoration and restitution will come only after the Church has been completed, after the Great Mediator, both the head and the body are complete and the Mediatorial reign begins.

 

[doxley]

I am indeed a Bible Student, however you incorrect in your thought that the Bible Students broke off from the JW's. The Bible Students Association existed prior to the Jehovah's Witnesses. It is they who are and off-shoot of the Bible Students NOT vice-verses. The Bible Students Association started back around 1879 whereas the Jehovah's Witnesses didn't come into existence until 1931.

See our blog post, Jehovah’s Witnesses views on Armageddon and Second Death, Part 1 for a better understanding of this.

It's an interesting read. Highly recommended for current Jehovah's Witnesses.
I’ve read a lot about Rutherford. I agree he is the beginning of the modern day Jehovah’s witnesses.

Have you ever seen how they apply themselves to prophesy regarding the two witnesses of revelation, the ‘day prophesies of Daniel’ and the ‘Dry Bones’ of Ezekiel? It’s shocking that they have got away with this for so long and I’ll bet the common day Jehovah’s Witness doesn’t even realise they have done this.

Further reading about this is on their own website JW.org
https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/pure-worship/teaching-boxes/dry-bones-two-witnesses/
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1993802?q=daniel+rutherford&p=doc

 

[Harvest 1874]

It's an interesting read. Highly recommended for current Jehovah's Witnesses.
I’ve read a lot about Rutherford. I agree he is the beginning of the modern day Jehovah’s witnesses.

Have you ever seen how they apply themselves to prophesy regarding the two witnesses of revelation, the ‘day prophesies of Daniel’ and the ‘Dry Bones’ of Ezekiel? It’s shocking that they have got away with this for so long and I’ll bet the common day Jehovah’s Witness doesn’t even realise they have done this.

Further reading about this is on their own website JW.org
https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/pure-worship/teaching-boxes/dry-bones-two-witnesses/
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1993802?q=daniel+rutherford&p=doc

Like our Mormon friends (the Church of Latter Day Saints) the Jehovah's Witnesses likewise believe in replacement theology, and that they are to be the recipients of all the promises made to natural Israel.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Like our Mormon friends (the Church of Latter Day Saints) the Jehovah's Witnesses likewise believe in replacement theology, and that they are to be the recipients of all the promises made to natural Israel.

JW and "Mormon" theology have very very little in common. As an actual "Mormon", I humbly request you not try to put them together.

 

[doxley]

I am indeed a Bible Student, however you incorrect in your thought that the Bible Students broke off from the JW's. The Bible Students Association existed prior to the Jehovah's Witnesses. It is they who are and off-shoot of the Bible Students NOT vice-verses. The Bible Students Association started back around 1879 whereas the Jehovah's Witnesses didn't come into existence until 1931.

See our blog post, Jehovah’s Witnesses views on Armageddon and Second Death, Part 1 for a better understanding of this.

Do you still believe in Pastor Russel's calculations regarding the Great Pyramid' then? Detailed in Studies of the Scriptures.

 

[Harvest 1874]

Do you still believe in Pastor Russel's calculations regarding the Great Pyramid' then? Detailed in Studies of the Scriptures.

Yes, I do, I have made an extensive study of the Great Pyramid myself and have found it to be just what the Pastor said it was in answer to the question asked:

“The Great Pyramid” Why was it built? Who built it?

His answer to who built it was: “God was the great architect” and the purpose of its having been built was “to confirm (collaborate) the faith of his people at the end of the Gospel Age.” This of course implies that one’s faith has already been fully established upon the divine revelation, the written testimony.

"In that day shall there be an altar to the Lord in the midst of the land of Egypt and a pillar at the border thereof to the Lord. And it shall be for a sign and for a witness unto the Lord of hosts in the land of Egypt." Isa. 19:19, 20

“The Great Pyramid proves to be a storehouse of important truth--scientific, historic and prophetic—and its testimony is found to be in perfect accord with the Bible, expressing the prominent features of its truths in beautiful and fitting symbols.

It is by no means an addition to the written revelation: that revelation is complete and perfect, and needs no addition. But it is a strong corroborative witness to God's plan; and few students can carefully examine it, marking the harmony of its testimony with that of the written Word, without feeling impressed that its construction was planned and directed by the same divine wisdom, and that it is the pillar of witness referred to by the prophet in the above quotation.” (Volume 3 Page 314-315)

The collaborative testimony which we receive from the Great Pyramid is NOT meant to be a substitute or replacement for our faith in the Word of God; it is simply a confirmation or witness to it.

One month before he died in 1916, he wrote a new preface to the third volume of the “Studies in the Scriptures”, reiterating his implicit faith in the Great Pyramid as God’s Sign and Witness. However, as you know after the Pastor’s death the new president of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, Judge Rutherford, took a different view on the matter, his answer to the question was that, “The Devil is the author of the Great Pyramid, and the purpose of this monument is to overthrow and destroy the faith of God’s children at the end of the Gospel age.”

Thus, the Great Pyramid and the study of its significance to the Lord’s people fell into disfavor and was cast aside by the New Society even as the same organization cast aside the study of the Tabernacle. What a lost this has been to the Lord’s true children trapped within this organization.

One of the chief benefits of a study of the Pyramid is in its confirmation of The True Bible Chronology. The time measurements found in the Pyramid do not corroborate any other scheme of chronology, Ptolemy’s, Usher’s, the Jehovah’s Witnesses no other, thus proving which is the true Bible Chronology.

I have been contemplating presenting a blog post study of the Great Pyramid here on this site, but it involves a lot work and I’m not sure of the interest here upon the subject.

 

[doxley]

Yes, I do, I have made an extensive study of the Great Pyramid myself and have found it to be just what the Pastor said it was in answer to the question asked:

“The Great Pyramid” Why was it built? Who built it?

His answer to who built it was: “God was the great architect” and the purpose of its having been built was “to confirm (collaborate) the faith of his people at the end of the Gospel Age.” This of course implies that one’s faith has already been fully established upon the divine revelation, the written testimony.

"In that day shall there be an altar to the Lord in the midst of the land of Egypt and a pillar at the border thereof to the Lord. And it shall be for a sign and for a witness unto the Lord of hosts in the land of Egypt." Isa. 19:19, 20

“The Great Pyramid proves to be a storehouse of important truth--scientific, historic and prophetic—and its testimony is found to be in perfect accord with the Bible, expressing the prominent features of its truths in beautiful and fitting symbols.

It is by no means an addition to the written revelation: that revelation is complete and perfect, and needs no addition. But it is a strong corroborative witness to God's plan; and few students can carefully examine it, marking the harmony of its testimony with that of the written Word, without feeling impressed that its construction was planned and directed by the same divine wisdom, and that it is the pillar of witness referred to by the prophet in the above quotation.” (Volume 3 Page 314-315)

The collaborative testimony which we receive from the Great Pyramid is NOT meant to be a substitute or replacement for our faith in the Word of God; it is simply a confirmation or witness to it.

One month before he died in 1916, he wrote a new preface to the third volume of the “Studies in the Scriptures”, reiterating his implicit faith in the Great Pyramid as God’s Sign and Witness. However, as you know after the Pastor’s death the new president of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, Judge Rutherford, took a different view on the matter, his answer to the question was that, “The Devil is the author of the Great Pyramid, and the purpose of this monument is to overthrow and destroy the faith of God’s children at the end of the Gospel age.”

Thus, the Great Pyramid and the study of its significance to the Lord’s people fell into disfavor and was cast aside by the New Society even as the same organization cast aside the study of the Tabernacle. What a lost this has been to the Lord’s true children trapped within this organization.

One of the chief benefits of a study of the Pyramid is in its confirmation of The True Bible Chronology. The time measurements found in the Pyramid do not corroborate any other scheme of chronology, Ptolemy’s, Usher’s, the Jehovah’s Witnesses no other, thus proving which is the true Bible Chronology.

I have been contemplating presenting a blog post study of the Great Pyramid here on this site, but it involves a lot work and I’m not sure of the interest here upon the subject.

I do find it interesting, but it is complicated, I'm not sure it would be something easily understood.

 

[Harvest 1874]

I do find it interesting, but it is complicated, I'm not sure it would be something easily understood.

Yes, it can be a bit intimidating at first if you have never really looked into it, in fact it was one of those studies I shelved for some time after several others including the Tabernacle, Creation, Ezekiel’s Temple and etc., but when I finally got around to it, I found it much more interesting then I first thought, in fact the Tabernacle and the Great Pyramid are my two favorite studies. I really learned a lot from both of these.

As for the study on the Great Pyramid, we begin with the basics, first removing any stumbling stones that might be preventing one from considering a study in the first place and then we precede to the scriptural support for the Stone Witness. I have tried to break it down so that even someone unfamiliar with the Great Pyramid may understand. We begin with how it was constructed (not specifically how the workers constructed it, as that’s a whole nether study in itself), but how it was assembled. Then we walk through all the various passages and chambers to see what they symbolize.

From there we do a comparison between the Great Pyramid and the Tabernacle noting how both picture the same progressive walk of the true Christian and follower of Christ.

Once one has been made thoroughly acquainted with the basics, the layout of the Great Pyramid its dimensions, symbolism and etc., we are ready to move on to the more technical (and rewarding part or) aspect, the time-measurements hidden in the Great Pyramid's passages and chambers all of which corroborate fully the divine testimony as given in the scriptures, and which confirm the true Bible Chronology.

Everything is illustrated with many photos added so as to make it much easier to understand. As they say “a picture is worth a thousand words”.

 

[doxley]

Yes, it can be a bit intimidating at first if you have never really looked into it, in fact it was one of those studies I shelved for some time after several others including the Tabernacle, Creation, Ezekiel’s Temple and etc., but when I finally got around to it, I found it much more interesting then I first thought, in fact the Tabernacle and the Great Pyramid are my two favorite studies. I really learned a lot from both of these.

As for the study on the Great Pyramid, we begin with the basics, first removing any stumbling stones that might be preventing one from considering a study in the first place and then we precede to the scriptural support for the Stone Witness. I have tried to break it down so that even someone unfamiliar with the Great Pyramid may understand. We begin with how it was constructed (not specifically how the workers constructed it, as that’s a whole nether study in itself), but how it was assembled. Then we walk through all the various passages and chambers to see what they symbolize.

From there we do a comparison between the Great Pyramid and the Tabernacle noting how both picture the same progressive walk of the true Christian and follower of Christ.

Once one has been made thoroughly acquainted with the basics, the layout of the Great Pyramid its dimensions, symbolism and etc., we are ready to move on to the more technical (and rewarding part or) aspect, the time-measurements hidden in the Great Pyramid's passages and chambers all of which corroborate fully the divine testimony as given in the scriptures, and which confirm the true Bible Chronology.

Everything is illustrated with many photos added so as to make it much easier to understand. As they say “a picture is worth a thousand words”.

I would be interested especially in the tabernacle study, do you have that blog somewhere?

 

[Harvest 1874]

I would be interested especially in the tabernacle study, do you have that blog somewhere?

Yes, it is found under our first Harvest Blog Index of articles (we have two indexes due to the character limits on blog post, the second one is found here). These are all found on this board among other blog posters here. You may want to look over some of the various subjects covered on our blog sometime. Although not all Bible Students share the same views on every subject especially prophecy most are in agreement on the basics.

The following is a quick link to each of our Tabernacle studies.

The Sanctuary of God

The Tabernacle’s Construction

The Consecration of the Priesthood

The Great Day of Atonement

The Only Way

Tentative and Vitalized Justification

The High Priest Garments of Beauty