The Great Crowd

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Aunty Jane

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I went expecting to see a community that love Christ.
We are a community who love the Father like Christ taught us to love him....because God is the one who sent him to die for us.
Jesus is more like a brother to us, but Jehovah is "our Father". We are certainly taught by Jesus to "love God" with all that we are, and to love our neighbor as ourselves....how have we fallen short on that score? I have not ever experienced anything but a close knit spiritual family in my 50 years as a Witness.

That preaches and practices that love, honoring the two Great Commandments. Horribly Misunderstood by others and wrongly persecuted. Studiers of God. Whom do have some bueatiful beliefs and practices.
The fact that we do not measure up in the eyes of some who have some expectations, is no reason to rule us out as faithful Christians. I am sure the Jews found lots of faults with the first Christians too. Jesus told us to expect the world's hatred.....I think we cop more flack for less offense than any other Christian organization. (John 15:18-21)

As one who came out of Christendom, I could not believe the love I was shown by these people at my first meeting. The contrast was amazing TBH. It made me want to come back, just seeing how they treated and greeted each other.

I attended a large international convention and saw great demonstrations of genuine love among complete strangers. Even the staff at the local railway station were amazed by the closeness of our brotherhood and the way they followed instructions with no complaints. Many thousands were gathered in one of our capital cities and people were amazed at how orderly and polite the JW's were. Hotel staff too were impressed with the behavior of the city's many visitors, including their children. The comments were genuine...they had never seen a large group so well mannered....and well dressed.

I wanted so deeply to see that.
Well apparently I saw what you didn't.
But you didn't answer my question...how long ago did you go to a meeting? We have so moved on from that approach, which was decades ago now. We now try to concentrate on the good news instead of the bad news...people have had enough bad news to last them a lifetime. They need something to look forward to. Jehovah gives them something wonderful that doesn't involve going to heaven.

We are always trying to approach people in a way that attracts them to God's word because our example matters more than our words.....the behavior of our brothers usually brings nothing but praise. Anyone who comes to one of our meetings and comes away feeling disappointed has probably gone there with the wrong attitude in the first place IMO. Those looking for faults will find them, as they no doubt did in the first century.
 
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quietthinker

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We are a community who love the Father like Christ taught us to love him....because God is the one who sent him to die for us.
Jesus is more like a brother to us, but Jehovah is "our Father". We are certainly taught by Jesus to "love God" with all that we are, and to love our neighbor as ourselves....how have we fallen short on that score? I have not ever experienced anything but a close knit spiritual family in my 50 years as a Witness.


The fact that we do not measure up in the eyes of some who have some expectations, is no reason to rule us out as faithful Christians. I am sure the Jews found lots of faults with the first Christians too. Jesus told us to expect the world's hatred.....I think we cop more flack for less offense than any other Christian organization. (John 15:18-21)

As one who came out of Christendom, I could not believe the love I was shown by these people at my first meeting. The contrast was amazing TBH. It made me want to come back, just seeing how they treated and greeted each other.

I attended a large international convention and saw great demonstrations of genuine love among complete strangers. Even the staff at the local railway station were amazed by the closeness of our brotherhood and the way they followed instructions with no complaints. Many thousands were gathered in one of our capital cities and people were amazed at how orderly and polite the JW's were. Hotel staff too were impressed with the behavior of the city's many visitors, including their children. The comments were genuine...they had never seen a large group so well mannered....and well dressed.


Well apparently I saw what you didn't.
But you didn't answer my question...how long ago did you go to a meeting? We have so moved on from that approach, which was decades ago now. We now try to concentrate on the good news instead of the bad news...people have had enough bad news to last them a lifetime. They need something to look forward to. Jehovah give them something wonderful that doesn't involve going to heaven.

We are always trying to approach people in a way that attracts them to God's word because our example matters more than our words.....the behavior of our brothers usually brings nothing but praise. Anyone who comes to one of our meetings and comes away feeling disappointed has probably gone there with the wrong attitude in the first place IMO. Those looking for faults will find them, as they no doubt did in the first century.
I note your witness is to you and yours.....hmmmmm
 

quietthinker

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And here is another cryptic response.....what the heck does this mean?

I bet your fun to live with.....:confused:
You take the name 'Jehovah's Witness' yet I have not heard one of your mob witness to Jehovah.....don't you find that odd?

I am curious about learning about Jehovah yet as to date I have not learn't anything about Jehovah from JW's. My understanding of Jehovah comes from knowing Jesus. Don't you find that interesting?

Have you noticed I have not engaged you regarding your various peculiar bible theories which you claim as truth yet when I attempt to present Jesus who claims to be the truth, you think I am being cryptic and not able to be understood....that is curious!

My statement above 'I note your witness is to you and yours.....hmmmmm' you say is cryptic......even that is an odd response....as if you have no self awareness. Read through your own post that these words are responding to and see if it is not you and yours centred.

Is it possible Jesus is cryptic to you as well and therefore given a wide berth while at the same time paying him lip service?
 
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doxley

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“Excommunication is simply disfellowshipping. Removing a person from fellowship with the congregation. They are not prevented from attending meetings and are encouraged to come back into the fold. No one is disfellowshipped lightly. It is a form of discipline, but completely lost on today's world. (Hebrews 12:5-6)”

They have to sit at the back and no one must talk to them until they are satisfactorily repentant.
Don’t lie to yourself AJ, you know that whole families have been destroyed because of your shunning policy. Everyone knows.

Do “Sheep without a shepherd” do well in your estimations? Is that what Jesus said? Is that what Paul said? Do you know better than them? Are you 'special'? (Hebrews 13:17)
It depends who the shepherd is. I could just follow the bible and spiritual prayer, why do I need a man to guide me?

AJ, did you study the Daniel and Revelation prophecy that iis supposed to prove that the organization was chosen by God? I might get it out and we will look at the evidence.
 

Aunty Jane

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You take the name 'Jehovah's Witness' yet I have not heard one of your mob witness to Jehovah.....don't you find that odd?
I am curious about learning about Jehovah yet as to date I have not learn't anything about Jehovah from JW's. My understanding of Jehovah comes from knowing Jesus. Don't you find that interesting?
Why would I find it "interesting"? Jesus came to show us what the Father is like in personality. Who else can show us what Jehovah is like but the one who has spent eons of time with him? Who really knew what Jehovah was like before Jesus came?
He spoke through others, for the most part....angels, prophets, his written word....and last of all by his Son.

Have you noticed I have not engaged you regarding your various peculiar bible theories which you claim as truth yet when I attempt to present Jesus who claims to be the truth, you think I am being cryptic and not able to be understood....that is curious!
I'm really grateful QT...thank you, you saved me from having to scratch my head every time I read a response from you....
How many times do I have to say it? I am NOT on your wavelength, and if you respond to me with cryptic unintelligible babble I guess then its best to just ignore what I don't understand....? (which is most of what you say)

My statement above 'I note your witness is to you and yours.....hmmmmm' you say is cryptic......even that is an odd response....as if you have no self awareness. Read through your own post that these words are responding to and see if it is not you and yours centred.
Since I was explaining some things about me and mine, I guess it made sense to me. I am beginning to worry about you....
Plain English...is it asking too much?......you have no idea how weirdly you come across. Do you live alone? Perhaps that would explain why I can't understand a word you say...? If you have no one there to tell you that you often speak in riddles.
 

doxley

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I'm really grateful QT...thank you, you saved me from having to scratch my head every time I read a response from you....
How many times do I have to say it? I am NOT on your wavelength, and if you respond to me with cryptic unintelligible babble I guess then its best to just ignore what I don't understand....? (which is most of what you say).
Bit rude aren't you. Funny because I have understood what he says. Maybe you need a watchtower study on deep thought and critical analysis.
 

Aunty Jane

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They have to sit at the back and no one must talk to them until they are satisfactorily repentant.
Don’t lie to yourself AJ, you know that whole families have been destroyed because of your shunning policy. Everyone knows.

It depends who the shepherd is. I could just follow the bible and spiritual prayer, why do I need a man to guide me?

AJ, did you study the Daniel and Revelation prophecy that iis supposed to prove that the organization was chosen by God? I might get it out and we will look at the evidence.
I think I know enough from your posts now to understand that you are never going to be a JW but are an apostate in the making.....sorry dox, you'll have to go and whine to somebody else about those big bad JW's....not biting. Just not interested.

Good bye.
 

quietthinker

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Since I was explaining some things about me and mine, I guess it made sense to me. I am beginning to worry about you....
Plain English...is it asking too much?......you have no idea how weirdly you come across. Do you live alone? Perhaps that would explain why I can't understand a word you say...? If you have no one there to tell you that you often speak in riddles.
Could it be that your lack of understanding has more to do with your headspace than mine?
Could it be that denial has you fabricating stories about me not speaking plain English and is easier for you than self honesty AJ?
 
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Aunty Jane

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Could it be that your lack of understanding has more to do with your headspace than mine?
Could it be that denial has you fabricating stories about me not speaking plain English and is easier for you than self honesty AJ?
Or could it be that I just don't have a clue what your responses mean most of the time? Now I am fabricating stories?
How am I doing that? You speak in riddles and I just need plain English....does this mean that I don't speak your language or is it that you don't speak mine?

Best to just leave it I think....this is getting personal. Perhaps I should do us both a favor and put you on ignore...?
 

Jane_Doe22

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We are a community who love the Father like Christ taught us to love him....because God is the one who sent him to die for us.
Jesus is more like a brother to us, but Jehovah is "our Father". We are certainly taught by Jesus to "love God" with all that we are, and to love our neighbor as ourselves....how have we fallen short on that score? I have not ever experienced anything but a close knit spiritual family in my 50 years as a Witness.


The fact that we do not measure up in the eyes of some who have some expectations, is no reason to rule us out as faithful Christians. I am sure the Jews found lots of faults with the first Christians too. Jesus told us to expect the world's hatred.....I think we cop more flack for less offense than any other Christian organization. (John 15:18-21)

As one who came out of Christendom, I could not believe the love I was shown by these people at my first meeting. The contrast was amazing TBH. It made me want to come back, just seeing how they treated and greeted each other.

I attended a large international convention and saw great demonstrations of genuine love among complete strangers. Even the staff at the local railway station were amazed by the closeness of our brotherhood and the way they followed instructions with no complaints. Many thousands were gathered in one of our capital cities and people were amazed at how orderly and polite the JW's were. Hotel staff too were impressed with the behavior of the city's many visitors, including their children. The comments were genuine...they had never seen a large group so well mannered....and well dressed.


Well apparently I saw what you didn't.
But you didn't answer my question...how long ago did you go to a meeting? We have so moved on from that approach, which was decades ago now. We now try to concentrate on the good news instead of the bad news...people have had enough bad news to last them a lifetime. They need something to look forward to. Jehovah give them something wonderful that doesn't involve going to heaven.

We are always trying to approach people in a way that attracts them to God's word because our example matters more than our words.....the behavior of our brothers usually brings nothing but praise. Anyone who comes to one of our meetings and comes away feeling disappointed has probably gone there with the wrong attitude in the first place IMO. Those looking for faults will find them, as they no doubt did in the first century.
I acknowledge your thoughts and experiences.

My own firsthand experiences and observations showed a very different picture. And to be direct: no I did not go with an axe to grind, I went antipating to see love, and tired again and again.
 

quietthinker

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Or could it be that I just don't have a clue what your responses mean most of the time? Now I am fabricating stories?
How am I doing that? You speak in riddles and I just need plain English....does this mean that I don't speak your language or is it that you don't speak mine?

Best to just leave it I think....this is getting personal. Perhaps I should do us both a favor and put you on ignore...?
It's unfortunate you would consider outing me.....but that tells its own story!
I have not spoken to you in riddles AJ however much you perceive them to be such.
Perhaps you perceive Jesus as speaking in riddles and being cryptic also?.....I suspect that is the case!

If you hear me speaking in riddles and being cryptic it has to do with your hearing (paradigm) ie, the inability to join the dots.
You might recall the religious folk drew the same conclusions about the things Jesus said or check out John 8:43 if self honesty is of interest to you.
 

doxley

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I acknowledge your thoughts and experiences.

My own firsthand experiences and observations showed a very different picture. And to be direct: no I did not go with an axe to grind, I went antipating to see love, and tired again and again.
Most Witnesses are thoroughly lovely people, though not really interested in the deep things of the bible otherwise they would have studied themselves out of the organisation. They are now mainly a generational religion, where family members get baptized rather than brand new adherents. There are a few, like Aunty Jane, who has now shunned me, that will try to shame you into the ground if you criticize their belief system, particularly their Governing Body. They look to that body with a reverence that should really only be reserved for Jesus.

I do have friends in the religion, I wish I were blinkered enough to go along with them, they seem pretty happy most of the time. I'm a complicated gal though, I have to cross every t and dot every i. The thing that blew my mind this time though is that I discovered in their own literature that they believe they were prophesied about in Daniel and Revelation, they believe they were the two witnesses of revelation 11. and also in the Daniels 'days prophesy', I'll try to add a link for anyone interested. It was all a bridge too far for me.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1993802?q=daniel+rutherford&p=doc
 

doxley

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And just one more thing, seeing as I started the thread. I was genuinely looking to see if anyone out there could show me where the Great Crowd were in scripture, to show me where Jesus was limiting his heavenly calling to just a few. I thought maybe I had missed something. And if not, then I at least wanted to get all of this off my chest and possibly help someone else in the same spot. That's all
 

Enoch111

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I was genuinely looking to see if anyone out there could show me where the Great Crowd were in scripture...
I already gave you the relevant Scripture to show that "the Great Multitude" will be in Heaven. As will the 144,000. So how come you are still asking this question? BTW "crowd" is derogatory for "multitude".
 

doxley

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I already gave you the relevant Scripture to show that "the Great Multitude" will be in Heaven. As will the 144,000. So how come you are still asking this question? BTW "crowd" is derogatory for "multitude".
Because there are more than your thoughts out there. The thread has taken its own course, I'm not asking the question now. We've finished.
 
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Enoch111

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Really? You do not understand the difference?

1. To gather together in a limited space: The children crowded around the TV.
2. To move forward by pressing or shoving: A bevy of reporters crowded toward the candidate.
v.tr.
1. To force by pressing or shoving: Police crowded the spectators back to the viewing stand.
2. To force away by taking up space; displace: Urban sprawl crowded the farmers out of the valley.
3. To draw or stand very near or too near to: The batter crowded the plate. Please don't crowd me.
4. To press, cram, or force tightly together: crowded the clothes into the closet.
5. To fill or occupy to overflowing: Books crowded the shelves.
6. Informal To put pressure on; assail: Dark thoughts were crowding him.
 

Robert Gwin

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How about some sort of timeline here,and not a guess because of trends

We have a series called conversation with a neighbor Cassy, and that subject is spoken about, I think that might be the easiest way to understand it maam:
NEBUCHADNEZZAR’S DREAM—A BRIEF REVIEW
Cameron: It’s good to see you again, Jon. I always enjoy our weekly Bible study sessions. How have you been?
Jon: I’ve been fine, thanks.
Cameron: I’m glad you’re doing well. The last time I was here, we talked about why Jehovah’s Witnesses say that God’s Kingdom began ruling in 1914. As we discussed, we find a key piece of evidence in a prophecy in chapter 4 of the Bible book of Daniel. Do you recall what is recorded there?
Jon: It was King Nebuchadnezzar’s dream about a big tree.
Cameron: Yes, exactly. In his dream, Nebuchadnezzar saw an immense tree that reached clear to heaven. He heard a messenger of God command that the tree be cut down, but its stump and roots were to be left in the ground. After a period of “seven times,” the tree would grow again. We also discussed why the prophecy has two fulfillments. Do you remember what the initial fulfillment was?
Jon: It was something that happened to Nebuchadnezzar himself, right? He lost his sanity for seven years.
Cameron: Precisely. Nebuchadnezzar temporarily lost his sanity, so his rulership was interrupted. But in the larger fulfillment of the prophecy, God’s rulership would in a way be interrupted for a period of seven times. As we saw, the seven times began when Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 B.C.E. From then on, there were no more kings on earth who represented Jehovah God in ruling his people. However, at the end of the seven times, God would appoint a new Ruler over his people—someone in heaven. In other words, the end of the seven times would mark the start of the rulership of God’s heavenly Kingdom. Now, we already discussed when the seven times started. So if we can determine how long they lasted, then we will know when God’s Kingdom began ruling. Are you with me so far?
Jon: Yes, this review has helped me to refresh my memory.
Cameron: Great. Let’s dig in, then, and consider the length of the seven times. I’ve just finished reading up on this subject to remind myself of the key points. I’ll try to explain them as well as I can.
Jon: OK.
SEVEN TIMES END—THE LAST DAYS BEGIN
Cameron: In the prophecy’s initial fulfillment involving Nebuchadnezzar, the seven times were evidently seven literal years. But in the larger fulfillment involving God’s Kingdom, the seven times must be much longer than seven literal years.
Jon: Why do you say that?
Cameron: For one thing, recall that the seven times began when Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 B.C.E. If we start counting from that year, seven literal years would take us to the year 600 B.C.E. But nothing significant happened in that year with regard to God’s rulership. Besides, as we considered before, centuries later when Jesus was here on earth, he indicated that the seven times had not yet ended.
Jon: Oh, yes. I remember that now.
Cameron: So, rather than being literal years, the seven times must involve a longer period of time.
Jon: How long?
Cameron: The Bible book of Revelation, which is closely connected with the book of Daniel, helps us to determine exactly how long the seven times are. It identifies a period of three and a half times as amounting to 1,260 days. Thus, seven times—twice the amount of three and a half times—would equal 2,520 days. Are you still with me?
Jon: Yes, I follow you. But I don’t see how this shows that God’s Kingdom began ruling in 1914.
Cameron: OK, let’s see if we can make the connection. Sometimes in Bible prophecy, a day symbolizes a year. If we apply the rule of a day for a year, the seven times would amount to 2,520 years. Counting forward from 607 B.C.E., 2,520 years takes us to the year 1914. That’s how we arrive at 1914 as the year that the seven times ended, the start of Jesus’ rule as King of God’s Kingdom. And significantly, since 1914, major world events have happened—events that the Bible foretold for the last days.
Jon: What sort of events?
Cameron: Consider what Jesus said, as recorded here at Matthew 24:7. Concerning the time when he would start ruling in heaven, Jesus said: “Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another.” Notice that Jesus foretold food shortages and earthquakes during that time period. Our world has certainly seen a lot of that kind of trouble in the past century, hasn’t it?
Jon: True.
Cameron: In this verse, Jesus also foretold warfare during his presence as King of God’s Kingdom. And the Bible book of Revelation foretold not just local warfare but wars that would affect the whole earth during the time of the end. Do you recall when the first world war broke out?
Jon: That was in 1914, the same year that you’re saying Jesus began ruling! I never connected that before.
Cameron: When we put all these pieces together—the prophecy about the seven times as well as other Bible prophecies concerning the time of the end—it really makes sense. Jehovah’s Witnesses are convinced that Jesus began ruling as King of God’s Kingdom in 1914 and that the last days began in that same year.
Jon: I’m still trying to wrap my mind around all of this.
Cameron: That’s perfectly understandable. As I mentioned before, it took me a while to grasp it fully too. But at the very least, I hope our discussion has helped you to see that even though the year 1914 isn’t specifically mentioned in the Bible, Jehovah’s Witnesses do base their beliefs about that year on the Scriptures.
 

Jane_Doe22

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Because there are more than your thoughts out there. The thread has taken its own course, I'm not asking the question now. We've finished.
The Book of Revelations is a symbolic in nature. It’s not meant to be a literal counting of anything.


. 12 is symbolic of God’s perfection and assembled followers- 12 tribes, 12 disciples, 12. 12 groups of 12 is perfection assembled x perfection. And thousand is symbolically “many”. Hence 144,000 is not a literal count, rather symbolic of Christ’s perfected x perfected many many disciples being called out of the world. Perfection in Him.


As to your quest to find answers: that is a great thing. I would humbly suggest that the best person to find answers about God’s Truth is by yourself ask Him through prayer.