The Great Historic Revivals and What Triggered Them

[Berserk]

The crew chrismatic movement existed long before this.

"Crew?" Now it is you who are speaking gibberish.

 

[CoreIssue]

"Crew?" Now it is you who are speaking gibberish.

Sorry about that, should not been there. Will fix.

I use voice to text software due to some nerve problems in my hand and it does not always work right. But no excuse for not proofreading better.

 

[Berserk]

Duncan Campbell was a Presbyterian minister, who prayed for revival regularly with a friend of mine's Dad, who just happened to be be blind. That fact is unknown to the public. What is known is that the main prayer warriors who catalyzed this revival were the 2 Smith sisters in their 80s, one of whom was also blind and both of whom were too infirmed to attend church. Campbell makes a special point of stressing that in true revival the power of God falls on unbelievers everywhere before any organized meetings are held. Watch this video of Campbell's testimony and you might understand why I consider it the most impressive account of a mass move of God ever posted on the internet!

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Duncan Campbell was a Presbyterian minister, who prayed for revival regularly with a friend of mine's Dad, who just happened to be be blind. That fact is unknown to the public. What is known is that the main prayer warriors who catalyzed this revival were the 2 Smith sisters in their 80s, one of whom was also blind and both of whom were too infirmed to attend church. Campbell makes a special point of stressing that in true revival the power of God falls on unbelievers everywhere before any organized meetings are held. Watch this video of Campbell's testimony and you might understand why I consider it the most impressive account of a mass move of God ever posted on the internet!

Also, another feature of true revival which has been noted is that it is a pastor-led revival--as in Jonathan Edwards leading the Great Awakening in New England or, in your example, Duncan Campbell in Scotland. Another feature is a return to Scripture as the basis of faith and practice. With our current crop of heretics in the pulpits of many mega churches, it is difficult to see that happening any time soon.

But, on the other hand, if it is in God's sovereign will to see it happen, then it will. God listens to the prayers of His people. I wonder how many are today praying for revival?

 

[CoreIssue]

Also, another feature of true revival which has been noted is that it is a pastor-led revival--as in Jonathan Edwards leading the Great Awakening in New England or, in your example, Duncan Campbell in Scotland. Another feature is a return to Scripture as the basis of faith and practice. With our current crop of heretics in the pulpits of many mega churches, it is difficult to see that happening any time soon.

But, on the other hand, if it is in God's sovereign will to see it happen, then it will. God listens to the prayers of His people. I wonder how many are today praying for revival?

I understand what you're saying but the Bible makes it clear there is not going to be a big revival. We are in decline.

It's like this whole concept of prayer warriors. Not to be found in the Bible.

We are all commanded to pray and God listens to all our prayers.

But there is no magic formula that says the so-called prayer warriors cause miraculous actions of God.

It is another example of the errors of Pentecostalism.

They have people that sit around and pray as groups and do nothing else. But the Bible calls us to action, not this.

Scotland is not a stronghold of Christianity.

The Presbyterian church is very apostate.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

I understand what you're saying but the Bible makes it clear there is not going to be a big revival. We are in decline.

I tend to agree with you--that we are in the "gleaning" stage of the "harvest"--that we might be nearing the territory of the "full number of the Gentiles". Pentecostalism has taken off in the Third World--I wonder how many are real: "Blood-bought, Bible-taught, Holy Spirit-wrought" believers? A friend's son was an Assembly of God (Pentecostal) missionary for a year. In trying to get a church going in the village where he was, he asked a Christian woman who she thought would be a good candidate for elder. She named several men who she said didn't "sin a lot--only a little bit of adultery and stealing". I suspect that part of the appeal of Pentecostalism in the Third World is that there is what I would call a "radical grace" doctrine taught by many Pentecostals. For those who truly know their Bible, "radical grace" is the perversion that the Apostle Paul was fighting in Romans chapter 6. He says in verse 2, "If we have died to sin, how can we continue to live in it?" We even have some "radical grace" types here in the forums and they are quite aggressive toward orthodox Christians.

It's like this whole concept of prayer warriors. Not to be found in the Bible.

"Storming the gates of the enemy with prayer" is something that is actively taught in some Pentecostal and Charismatic churches. It seems to entirely leave out the sovereignty of God. He becomes a sort of "vending machine God" where the prayers go in and out comes whatever is wanted. This type of "prosperity gospel" would, of course, appeal to desperately poor people. When they don't get what they want--do they fall away?

Scotland is not a stronghold of Christianity. The Presbyterian church is very apostate.

That is generally true of Presbyterianism and has been true since the liberals took over the Presbyterian seminaries (which Francis Schaeffer describes in The Great Evangelical Disaster). Schaeffer was a young Presbyterian minister when that happened and he saw the same forces shaping up in evangelicalism because of the lack of Bible knowledge in the younger generations. There has been a small attempt to get an evangelical group going among Presbyterians but I'm not sure how successful it has been. Freemasonry has a very strong foothold in Presbyterian churches.

 

[CoreIssue]

I tend to agree with you--that we are in the "gleaning" stage of the "harvest"--that we might be nearing the territory of the "full number of the Gentiles". Pentecostalism has taken off in the Third World--I wonder how many are real: "Blood-bought, Bible-taught, Holy Spirit-wrought" believers? A friend's son was an Assembly of God (Pentecostal) missionary for a year. In trying to get a church going in the village where he was, he asked a Christian woman who she thought would be a good candidate for elder. She named several men who she said didn't "sin a lot--only a little bit of adultery and stealing". I suspect that part of the appeal of Pentecostalism in the Third World is that there is what I would call a "radical grace" doctrine taught by many Pentecostals. For those who truly know their Bible, "radical grace" is the perversion that the Apostle Paul was fighting in Romans chapter 6. He says in verse 2, "If we have died to sin, how can we continue to live in it?" We even have some "radical grace" types here in the forums and they are quite aggressive toward orthodox Christians.

"Storming the gates of the enemy with prayer" is something that is actively taught in some Pentecostal and Charismatic churches. It seems to entirely leave out the sovereignty of God. He becomes a sort of "vending machine God" where the prayers go in and out comes whatever is wanted. This type of "prosperity gospel" would, of course, appeal to desperately poor people. When they don't get what they want--do they fall away?


That is generally true of Presbyterianism and has been true since the liberals took over the Presbyterian seminaries (which Francis Schaeffer describes in The Great Evangelical Disaster). Schaeffer was a young Presbyterian minister when that happened and he saw the same forces shaping up in evangelicalism because of the lack of Bible knowledge in the younger generations. There has been a small attempt to get an evangelical group going among Presbyterians but I'm not sure how successful it has been. Freemasonry has a very strong foothold in Presbyterian churches.

Remember, Africa is still the heart of pantheism and occult today.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Remember, Africa is still the heart of pantheism and occult today.

Yes. A number of years ago, I remember a missionary speaking about demon-possession at a church I was attending. Our pastor was somewhat skeptical and suggested that it was just "mental illness" as it had not been talked about here yet. The missionary was quite adamant however, insisting that they had delivered the man from the demon in one afternoon, and that he was subsequently serving the Lord as a missionary himself (and had been threatened by some of the occultists in the area). The missionary thought that demon-possession was spreading in Europe and N. America because of the falling away from Christianity. I remember being struck by what she said in that regard: "There is no such thing as a human being who is non-spiritual. If one's heart is not filled with the Spirit of Christ, you can be sure that a demon will see that person as an opportunity to make his home there."

 

[farouk]

I tend to agree with you--that we are in the "gleaning" stage of the "harvest"--that we might be nearing the territory of the "full number of the Gentiles". Pentecostalism has taken off in the Third World--I wonder how many are real: "Blood-bought, Bible-taught, Holy Spirit-wrought" believers? A friend's son was an Assembly of God (Pentecostal) missionary for a year. In trying to get a church going in the village where he was, he asked a Christian woman who she thought would be a good candidate for elder. She named several men who she said didn't "sin a lot--only a little bit of adultery and stealing". I suspect that part of the appeal of Pentecostalism in the Third World is that there is what I would call a "radical grace" doctrine taught by many Pentecostals. For those who truly know their Bible, "radical grace" is the perversion that the Apostle Paul was fighting in Romans chapter 6. He says in verse 2, "If we have died to sin, how can we continue to live in it?" We even have some "radical grace" types here in the forums and they are quite aggressive toward orthodox Christians.

"Storming the gates of the enemy with prayer" is something that is actively taught in some Pentecostal and Charismatic churches. It seems to entirely leave out the sovereignty of God. He becomes a sort of "vending machine God" where the prayers go in and out comes whatever is wanted. This type of "prosperity gospel" would, of course, appeal to desperately poor people. When they don't get what they want--do they fall away?


That is generally true of Presbyterianism and has been true since the liberals took over the Presbyterian seminaries (which Francis Schaeffer describes in The Great Evangelical Disaster). Schaeffer was a young Presbyterian minister when that happened and he saw the same forces shaping up in evangelicalism because of the lack of Bible knowledge in the younger generations. There has been a small attempt to get an evangelical group going among Presbyterians but I'm not sure how successful it has been. Freemasonry has a very strong foothold in Presbyterian churches.

I read The Great Evangelical Disaster in 1985 and it was an excellent, timely book.

It goes to show just how watered down the term "evangelical" has become.

My reading of it shows how one needs to resist the patronizing claim for unity with those who call themselves "evangelical" while having abandoned central evangelical, Biblical truths.

Instead, searching the Scriptures continually, we need to keep "looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith"(Hebrews 12.2).

 

[CoreIssue]

I avoid using labels like evangelical. The reason simply being they do not even faintly resemble what they use to mean.

 

[Windmillcharge]

Also, another feature of true revival which has been noted is that it is a pastor-led revival--as in Jonathan Edwards leading the Great Awakening in New England or, in your example, Duncan Campbell in Scotland. Another feature is a return to Scripture as the basis of faith and practice. With our current crop of heretics in the pulpits of many mega churches, it is difficult to see that happening any time soon.

But, on the other hand, if it is in God's sovereign will to see it happen, then it will. God listens to the prayers of His people. I wonder how many are today praying for revival?

True revival is pastor led ! If you read Acts as the people scattered from prscution they gosiped the gospel spreading Christianity across the empire. Not really pastor lead.

If you read about the isle of Lewes revival etc you'll see that Duncan was not leading the revival. He merely responded to what the Spirit was doing in people.

Minister take avery visible place in revival largely because God is Working through them to change people, it is part of Gods grace that we play a role in the salvation of others, in revival people are being challenged by conversations with Christians, by the quality of Christian lifes and is that something seen in our lives? As well asby the experience of attending church.

The mark of conversion whether in a revival or not is how that persons life changes.

 

[Berserk]

Yes, neither of the last 3 great revivals were "pastor-led." Lady Crosswalk speaks dogmatically without having bothered to watch the 3 posted videos on the Welsh, Azusa Street, and Hebrides revivals. The Welsh revival was sparked by Evan Roberts, an emotionally unstable new Bible school student. The Azusa Street Revival's Martin Luther was William Seymour, the son of a Black slave.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Yes, neither of the last 3 great revivals were "pastor-led." Lady Crosswalk speaks dogmatically without having bothered to watch the 3 posted videos on the Welsh, Azusa Street, and Hebrides revivals. The Welsh revival was sparked by Evan Roberts, an emotionally unstable new Bible school student. The Azusa Street Revival's Martin Luther was William Seymour, the son of a Black slave.

Pastors can be "hirelings" and they usually hamper the work of God among the people. Anyone can be a pastor--including you and me. When I say pastor-led, I mean any outstanding leader among believers. What we have now in our pulpits is mostly hirelings. But God waits for His people.

 

[CoreIssue]

Yes, neither of the last 3 great revivals were "pastor-led." Lady Crosswalk speaks dogmatically without having bothered to watch the 3 posted videos on the Welsh, Azusa Street, and Hebrides revivals. The Welsh revival was sparked by Evan Roberts, an emotionally unstable new Bible school student. The Azusa Street Revival's Martin Luther was William Seymour, the son of a Black slave.

The Azusa Street Revival
Was no more a revival then the founding of Mormonism and Jehovah's Witnesses were revival.

It was the founding of a cult.

 

[Berserk]

The Azusa Street Revival
Was no more a revival then the founding of Mormonism and Jehovah's Witnesses were revival.
It was the founding of a cult.

In the same sense that the eruption of tongues on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2) signified "the founding of a cult."

 

[CoreIssue]

In the same sense that the eruption of tongues on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2) signified "the founding of a cult."

Not even close to the same.

 

[amadeus]

Not even close to the same.

And of course you were there in person to witness both events as the official observer and judge standing in apparently for God!

 

[brakelite]

The modern impression that revival means an outbreak of happiness and the diffusion of the gifts of the spirit with tongues and 'miracles' is a very shallow perspective. True revival for me begins with real repentance and bitterness of heart at one's own sinfulness and unworthiness before a holy God. That is where it starts, and it ends not in great displays of dancing and self aggrandising seeking of joy and manifestations of the spirit...all these can be counterfeited by the arch deceiver...but it ends in heartfelt service and love for your fellow man. Self dies, and Christ in me lives. That is true revival. It isn't about gifts and miracles...it's about Him, and what He can do in and through us...self sacrificial service to bring others into the kingdom of God. And if a certain gift is granted or a miracle occurs, to God be the glory...not to the movement be the glory. Fire from heaven filling rooms and buildings? And this is evidence that God is involved? I am reminded of the verse in Revelation 13 that says fire is called down from heaven and it deceives people into accepting the Antichrist. It seems to me that people are looking for miracles rather than looking for souls.
Hundreds or even thousands of people pouring into the church on any basis other than grieving at ones lost condition and yearning for the righteousness that only Christ can give, is creating a church of confused mislead unconverted unfulfilled half-pie wannabees.
The only hope for the American people is deep soul-searching heart-rending repentance and Spirit led conviction of sin and rebelliousness against the Almighty. Then, will you be saved, and your land healed.

 

[Berserk]

The best evidence for the truth of Christianity is not the testimonial evidence for Gospel miracles or Jesus' resurrection; it is the supernatural move of the Spirit is the great historic revivals. I say this because in the First and Second Great Awakenings and in the Welsh and Hebrides revivals, God suddenly and inexplicably becomes real and compelling to the great unchurched masses who previously had no interest in Him. To see what I mean, please watch the YouTube revival videos I have posted in this thread. Nothing I have ever posted on this or any Christian site is as important to me as those videos. Sustained passionate group prayer was a necessary condition for those revivals, but apparently not a sufficient condition. No spiritual issue burdens me more than the question of why modern prayer for revival seems to go unanswered.

 

[Willie T]

Are there any examples of this same sort of "revival" in the Bible?